Line the up the prof for his go on the Guillotine. I will catch his wig from the green. It’s hilarious if it were not so frightening that he and his buds are so out of touch with the feelings on the ground. The people will have their way eventually.
This interview and – strike me – another instalment yet to come will have the tunnel-vision “it’s all because of the great Satan” zealots over on the ThaiVisa forum drooling in a feeding frenzy. Oh, the quotes to be lifted and embellished upon – no matter if the facts are wrong. And, hey did you see this Young character is actually a Professor? He must know what he’s talking about – even in ermmm (where’s he from?)……… Minnesota. Nice state – isn’t that where they shot the “Fargo” movie?
The forum’s anti-Thaksin denizens have been rather starved of fodder lately and, despite logical contortions that must be the envy of even the most accomplished Chinese acrobat, it’s been increasingly difficult for them to divert attention from all that this government is doing (much of it straight out of the Thaksin playbook – but let’s skip that part). No such problems for The Nation’s bedmate now.
Why is it baffling that the Nation prints such stuff? They are engaged in a propaganda exercise that is driven by a hatred of Thaksin. Their initial hatred of Thaksin was driven by the attempts Thaksin made to silence them, so there is justification. There surely was enough material to allow serious journalists to criticize and attack Thaksin. Now, though, in order to attack Thaksin they have been prepared to promote any fellow enemy. They are prepared to make things up if necessary, and they have been prepared to allow their journalism to deteriorate to a level that it can hardly be called journalism.
Maybe I am dull witted, but your article still has not shed light on the question why the price of garlic in Bangkok has almost tripled in the last 4 months?
Unfortunately, Stephen Young’s personal experiences as a young man, rubbing elbows with Thailand’s royals, swells and dictators, seems to have left him with a perspective on modern Thailand that is divorced from reality.
His pro-royalist sentiments and blatant anti-Thaksin bias remove the slightest hint of objectivity in his comments. He is a relic of pre-1932 Thailand, trapped in a world of paternalists, kings and dictators “who were tough guys who loved the people.”
His attempt to blame Thailand’s current political ills on the ambitions of one man, Thaksin, is astonishing, especially his pathetic attempt to tar Thaksin’s character as more Chinese than “Thai Thai.”
He simply doesn’t realise that Thaksin is a symptom, not cause, of what really ails this country: a national psychosis trying to achieve a populist democracy while preserving the symbol of national unity – the king – an autocrat whose followers have spent the better part of the last 75 years trying to undo 1932. The result has been a dysfunctional political system that defies prognosis.
Professor Young provides a clear case study in which a stylized elite view of Thailand has been disseminated by a cleverly cultivated group of useful idiots. Hosted by the King, friends with Sarit, carefully spoon fed stories by the Ongamontri and other agents, then doubtlessly rewarded for their complacency.
I think it is urgent that this type of lazy propagandist academia be exposed and mocked.
Kudos to Paul Handley, Nick Nositz and others who actually seek to form their owns views and take the risks that that entails.
I had always been under the impression that the low level of agricultural productivity in Thailand was a result of the broadly dispersed ownership of land, which divides farms into small units that can not benefit from scale.
At one point, I compared sugar cane production between Thailand and Brazil. The cost competitiveness of Brazilian sugar seemed to stem in large part from the fact that Brazilian land holding are vast and mill owners also own the crop land. In Thailand, I understand that mills own somewhere in the range of 5% of land, buying the rest from local contract farmers (at regulated prices).
I have also heard that Thailand is an outlier on charts plotting urbanization versus per capita income. Given the level of wealth in the country, Thailand has a disproportionate number of people in rural areas. I would guess this supports the small farm theory, as more people are required to farm small plots.
In terms of the impact on politics, I would suggest that the problem in rural areas is not so much that agricultural production is so low, but rather that providing people with farms that are only large enough to support subsistence and not providing them with eduction and opportunities in the cities does exacerbate the rural urban divide.
The concession/regulation model that gives most the value of much of Thailand’s wealth to a conspiracy between capital and the bureaucracy also has to play a role.
“shallow propaganda” > The problem is that Young really believes in what he says. And he thinks that he is (almost) the only foreigner who is able accurately to understand Thailand. Yet, with connections such as Anand Panyarachun, FM Kasit, and Suthichai Yoon (and probably some higher-ups), he does not have to care about intellectual honesty and ethics… He gets access so easily, and thus can push his political interests effortlessly, while others, who know much better, have to struggle not to be submerged by the dominant elite views.
Reading this interview, I am really baffled about all these superficial statements, and Young’s obvious lack of factual knowledge (e.g., re Thaksin got his concession, or re Pridi’s exile). The first thing that he should probably do is to go into a library and have a good read for two or three months to bring him at last to an initial level of understanding.
It is only all the more baffling that The Nation would print stuff like this (in two installments!).
I doubt they will be showing the picture currently all over the media of soap opera star Methi beating up an old man.
That the old man had openly campaigned for the PT in Surat Thani and was asking for expenses incurred to be covered seem to have been his crime.
How the PT deals with this one will be maybe more of an indicator of what they represent than any kind of self portrait. Will the PT hieracrchy side with someone brave enough to campaign for the party in Suthep’s fiefdom or will it favour sticking by one of its pretty boy stars?
While it was a good article overall, it seems to conflate ethnic Chinese with China. For example, yes Chinese businesses have always been part of the fabric of the region, but the Chinese running the businesses in many case have fled from the policies of China. I’m not sure exactly how Singapore splitting off from Malaysia really has anything to do with the Chinese government’s problems with Burma.
And now the Nation has the first of a two-part interview with this “old friend” of Thailand. He begins: “the New York Times especially [doesn’t understand]. The Washington Post. The Economist. Foreigners don’t know the way the Thais think. I’m more worried now about Thailand than ever before.” Damned foreigners.
Fromm where I sit, while these outlets are not the deep and meaningful studies of Thailand that academics provide, the interesting change that has taken place since at least the 2006 coup is a more critical stance towards those like Young who have long claimed to interpret Thailand for foreigners, almost always from the royaloist perspective. It has taken a long time for this more mature attitude to develop.
It is a great advance that statements like the next one are now more likely to be seen for the shallow propaganda that they are: “In 1961 it was my dad, with the passion of His Majesty and Field Marshal Sarit. He was a dictator, a military dictator, he was a tough guy, but he cared about the people, especially Isaan [the Northeast], and His Majesty also cared about Isaan.”
The interview is replete with royalist twaddle: only Thaksin wants change in Thailand. The elite and aristocracy are not the princelings of the palace and so on but the unspecified monopoly Thaksin had in telecoms. You can dislike the way that business was done (before Thaksin came to power in this case) but the deflection of attention from the real, fabulously wealthy elite is a travesty of manipulation of meaning (Young must have learned at the knee of his dad’s buddy Sarit).
His history is wrong and the interview gets worse. Can’t wait for the second instalment.
Son of Owain #7 – I still can’t get to the UDD site on the link here. I get:
Oops! This link appears to be broken.
Suggestions:
Go to www. mict. go. th
Search on Google: mict.go.th
A US citizen Nyi Nyi Aung (aka) Kyaw Zaw Lwin, brother of Burmese activist Thet Thet Aung, went missing after he landed in Burma on Thursday, September 3, 2009. His sister Thet Thet Anug, 35, mother of 3 boys, was sentenced 65 years in prison for her pro-democracy activities. Her activist husband Chit Ko Lay was also sentenced 11 years. Kyaw Zaw Lwin’s mother is serving a 5-year imprisonment. His aunt & cousin are also severing at least 6-year in prison.
Yes, it is possible to read the “banned books” at Thammasat. They are held in an area with rare and other precious materials. Once at Thammasat you would need to organise access with the staff but I imagine this is still a common matter. Ajarn Somsak, or other New Mandala regulars, will probably have more details and suggestions.
Regarding the books at Thammasat can anyone view them Nick? I would be grateful for any information you can give me as I will begin studying Thai government and politics have been trying to get in as much prior reading as possible in advance.
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Lost for words
Line the up the prof for his go on the Guillotine. I will catch his wig from the green. It’s hilarious if it were not so frightening that he and his buds are so out of touch with the feelings on the ground. The people will have their way eventually.
Lost for words
This interview and – strike me – another instalment yet to come will have the tunnel-vision “it’s all because of the great Satan” zealots over on the ThaiVisa forum drooling in a feeding frenzy. Oh, the quotes to be lifted and embellished upon – no matter if the facts are wrong. And, hey did you see this Young character is actually a Professor? He must know what he’s talking about – even in ermmm (where’s he from?)……… Minnesota. Nice state – isn’t that where they shot the “Fargo” movie?
The forum’s anti-Thaksin denizens have been rather starved of fodder lately and, despite logical contortions that must be the envy of even the most accomplished Chinese acrobat, it’s been increasingly difficult for them to divert attention from all that this government is doing (much of it straight out of the Thaksin playbook – but let’s skip that part). No such problems for The Nation’s bedmate now.
Lost for words
It would actually do this blog good to get a real opponent for a debate.
This is a professor who doesn’t use footnotes or citations?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19556383/Young-2
He just seems to be rehashing the information or arguments of other people without citing sources, i.e. plagiarism.
Not a good example for Thai students.
Thailand’s low agricultural productivity
Whoopla: this post is about yield, not price. I have blogged previously about garlic price fluctuations.
Thailand’s low agricultural productivity
Possibly Thais put more value on flavour than tonnes per hectare.
$ufficiency economy
Why is it baffling that the Nation prints such stuff? They are engaged in a propaganda exercise that is driven by a hatred of Thaksin. Their initial hatred of Thaksin was driven by the attempts Thaksin made to silence them, so there is justification. There surely was enough material to allow serious journalists to criticize and attack Thaksin. Now, though, in order to attack Thaksin they have been prepared to promote any fellow enemy. They are prepared to make things up if necessary, and they have been prepared to allow their journalism to deteriorate to a level that it can hardly be called journalism.
Thailand’s low agricultural productivity
Maybe I am dull witted, but your article still has not shed light on the question why the price of garlic in Bangkok has almost tripled in the last 4 months?
Lost for words
Unfortunately, Stephen Young’s personal experiences as a young man, rubbing elbows with Thailand’s royals, swells and dictators, seems to have left him with a perspective on modern Thailand that is divorced from reality.
His pro-royalist sentiments and blatant anti-Thaksin bias remove the slightest hint of objectivity in his comments. He is a relic of pre-1932 Thailand, trapped in a world of paternalists, kings and dictators “who were tough guys who loved the people.”
His attempt to blame Thailand’s current political ills on the ambitions of one man, Thaksin, is astonishing, especially his pathetic attempt to tar Thaksin’s character as more Chinese than “Thai Thai.”
He simply doesn’t realise that Thaksin is a symptom, not cause, of what really ails this country: a national psychosis trying to achieve a populist democracy while preserving the symbol of national unity – the king – an autocrat whose followers have spent the better part of the last 75 years trying to undo 1932. The result has been a dysfunctional political system that defies prognosis.
Lost for words
Professor Young provides a clear case study in which a stylized elite view of Thailand has been disseminated by a cleverly cultivated group of useful idiots. Hosted by the King, friends with Sarit, carefully spoon fed stories by the Ongamontri and other agents, then doubtlessly rewarded for their complacency.
I think it is urgent that this type of lazy propagandist academia be exposed and mocked.
Kudos to Paul Handley, Nick Nositz and others who actually seek to form their owns views and take the risks that that entails.
Thailand’s low agricultural productivity
I had always been under the impression that the low level of agricultural productivity in Thailand was a result of the broadly dispersed ownership of land, which divides farms into small units that can not benefit from scale.
At one point, I compared sugar cane production between Thailand and Brazil. The cost competitiveness of Brazilian sugar seemed to stem in large part from the fact that Brazilian land holding are vast and mill owners also own the crop land. In Thailand, I understand that mills own somewhere in the range of 5% of land, buying the rest from local contract farmers (at regulated prices).
I have also heard that Thailand is an outlier on charts plotting urbanization versus per capita income. Given the level of wealth in the country, Thailand has a disproportionate number of people in rural areas. I would guess this supports the small farm theory, as more people are required to farm small plots.
In terms of the impact on politics, I would suggest that the problem in rural areas is not so much that agricultural production is so low, but rather that providing people with farms that are only large enough to support subsistence and not providing them with eduction and opportunities in the cities does exacerbate the rural urban divide.
The concession/regulation model that gives most the value of much of Thailand’s wealth to a conspiracy between capital and the bureaucracy also has to play a role.
Lost for words
“Lost for words” is a most appropriate headline for this post!!
$ufficiency economy
“shallow propaganda” > The problem is that Young really believes in what he says. And he thinks that he is (almost) the only foreigner who is able accurately to understand Thailand. Yet, with connections such as Anand Panyarachun, FM Kasit, and Suthichai Yoon (and probably some higher-ups), he does not have to care about intellectual honesty and ethics… He gets access so easily, and thus can push his political interests effortlessly, while others, who know much better, have to struggle not to be submerged by the dominant elite views.
The interview is at http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/09/09/opinion/opinion_30111781.php
Reading this interview, I am really baffled about all these superficial statements, and Young’s obvious lack of factual knowledge (e.g., re Thaksin got his concession, or re Pridi’s exile). The first thing that he should probably do is to go into a library and have a good read for two or three months to bring him at last to an initial level of understanding.
It is only all the more baffling that The Nation would print stuff like this (in two installments!).
Red Shirt self-portrait
I doubt they will be showing the picture currently all over the media of soap opera star Methi beating up an old man.
That the old man had openly campaigned for the PT in Surat Thani and was asking for expenses incurred to be covered seem to have been his crime.
How the PT deals with this one will be maybe more of an indicator of what they represent than any kind of self portrait. Will the PT hieracrchy side with someone brave enough to campaign for the party in Suthep’s fiefdom or will it favour sticking by one of its pretty boy stars?
A Sino-Burmese border dance
While it was a good article overall, it seems to conflate ethnic Chinese with China. For example, yes Chinese businesses have always been part of the fabric of the region, but the Chinese running the businesses in many case have fled from the policies of China. I’m not sure exactly how Singapore splitting off from Malaysia really has anything to do with the Chinese government’s problems with Burma.
$ufficiency economy
And now the Nation has the first of a two-part interview with this “old friend” of Thailand. He begins: “the New York Times especially [doesn’t understand]. The Washington Post. The Economist. Foreigners don’t know the way the Thais think. I’m more worried now about Thailand than ever before.” Damned foreigners.
Fromm where I sit, while these outlets are not the deep and meaningful studies of Thailand that academics provide, the interesting change that has taken place since at least the 2006 coup is a more critical stance towards those like Young who have long claimed to interpret Thailand for foreigners, almost always from the royaloist perspective. It has taken a long time for this more mature attitude to develop.
It is a great advance that statements like the next one are now more likely to be seen for the shallow propaganda that they are: “In 1961 it was my dad, with the passion of His Majesty and Field Marshal Sarit. He was a dictator, a military dictator, he was a tough guy, but he cared about the people, especially Isaan [the Northeast], and His Majesty also cared about Isaan.”
The interview is replete with royalist twaddle: only Thaksin wants change in Thailand. The elite and aristocracy are not the princelings of the palace and so on but the unspecified monopoly Thaksin had in telecoms. You can dislike the way that business was done (before Thaksin came to power in this case) but the deflection of attention from the real, fabulously wealthy elite is a travesty of manipulation of meaning (Young must have learned at the knee of his dad’s buddy Sarit).
His history is wrong and the interview gets worse. Can’t wait for the second instalment.
The Republic of Kawthoolei and Thomas Bleming
Tom please e-Mail some of my photos to [email protected]
Red Shirt self-portrait
Son of Owain #7 – I still can’t get to the UDD site on the link here. I get:
Oops! This link appears to be broken.
Suggestions:
Go to www. mict. go. th
Search on Google: mict.go.th
A Sino-Burmese border dance
A US citizen Nyi Nyi Aung (aka) Kyaw Zaw Lwin, brother of Burmese activist Thet Thet Aung, went missing after he landed in Burma on Thursday, September 3, 2009. His sister Thet Thet Anug, 35, mother of 3 boys, was sentenced 65 years in prison for her pro-democracy activities. Her activist husband Chit Ko Lay was also sentenced 11 years. Kyaw Zaw Lwin’s mother is serving a 5-year imprisonment. His aunt & cousin are also severing at least 6-year in prison.
Subject: Request Assistance in the Arrest/Detention of Ko Kyaw Zaw Lwin at Rangoon Mingaladon International Airport
http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/help-neededsubject-request-assistance-in-the-arrestdetention-of-ko-kyaw-zaw-lwin-at-rangoon-mingaladon-international-airport-us-burma-citizen/
Red Shirt self-portrait
Thanks Son of Owain,
Yes, it is possible to read the “banned books” at Thammasat. They are held in an area with rare and other precious materials. Once at Thammasat you would need to organise access with the staff but I imagine this is still a common matter. Ajarn Somsak, or other New Mandala regulars, will probably have more details and suggestions.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Red Shirt self-portrait
The UDD site seems to be working ok again today.
Regarding the books at Thammasat can anyone view them Nick? I would be grateful for any information you can give me as I will begin studying Thai government and politics have been trying to get in as much prior reading as possible in advance.
Cheers for any advise.