I enjoyed reading the transcript of your talk and it rings true with what I observed during four years of living in Thailand and working within a key Thai government organisation.
In my job I occasionally brought Australian officials out to lead seminars in which we would often divide into syndicate groups to focus on particular issues. I recall on one occasion a Thai colleague who was also running the seminar came and said to me,”Thai people don’t like to talk to each other”. Of course we all know they do, but what he meant was that its hard for Thai people, at least some, to exchange opinions on deeper and significant matters with others with whom they are not close.
Communication, debate and managed disagreement are so fundamental to democracy and yet there is not yet a strong culture of this in Thailand. I think this is coming though, and I agree with you Nick, that when Thailand has passed through this period of difficult division, that Thailand will be a much better country – more productive, diverse, vibrant and thoughtful.
I disagree with you; naming the elephant Suwicha will also generate stories of the little elephant and generate a reminder against Thailand’s medieval LM law every single time that elephant makes it into the news.
I think it is a smart idea, but the campaign itself needs a lot more help, perhaps one can convince Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert or some other New/comic personality to take up the issue.
Overwhelmed at #6: On Wednesday, as I waited for the skytrain at rush hour, I noticed hordes of policemen descend on the street below and clear it. Sure enough, a royal cavalcade zoomed through the suddenly empty streets with a policeman at every side road and driveway.
No real idea who it was. Maybe Sirindhorn as she was in the same car in news reports. The largest car was a big yellow Benz and the majority of cars were also yellow Benzs. I counted the convoy – 23 vehicles, with 4 of them press cars. So the prince wins.
Without internet access for the past day or so, I decided to take Sidh’s advice, provided above, and go out and ask Thais what they think of LM and the monarchy. As I said above, I consider this approach statistically unsound and better done by an organisation that does this task professionally. But I had some time, so a quick and dirty “survey” seemed like fun.
I used structured questions rather than the open-ended “What’s your beef?” Here are the results for 4 questions, in gross numbers, for a small sample of 12 people:
1. Should Thailand reform its LM law?
Result: Yes (8*) No (1) No answer or don’t know (4)
2. Is the monarchy involved in politics?
Result: Yes (7) No (2) No answer or don’t know (3)
3. Should Prem resign?
Result: Yes (5) No (5) No answer or don’t know (2)
4. Will the king die at some time in the future?
Result: Yes (4) No (6) No answer or don’t know (2)
Analysis: The people surveyed were 4 taxi drivers, a counterfeit watch vendor, a policeman, a non-commissioned army officer, a bank clerk, 2 university professors, and 2 retail workers.
There were meant to be 14 in the survey. The businessman I was to interview withdrew when I refused to take a bribe to answer the questions for him. A politician said that the questions were complicated and so he needed to consult his astrologer before responding.
The “No answer or don’t know” are occupied by the soldier and the policeman in all cases except Q. 4, and joined by a professor in Q’s 1 and 2. The policeman said that he couldn’t answer any question because if he answered truthfully, he’d have to arrest himself. The soldier refused to answer because he was from the Lopburi special warfare unit and involved in plots to assassinate political figures on all sides and felt that answering would have been a conflict of interest.
Q. 1 adds to more than 12 because one of the taxi drivers answered that reform was not enough and that the law and the people it protects should be done away with. I thought that was worth 2 Yes answers.
For Q. 4, the 2 “No answer or don’t know” responses were from the professors.
Sidh asks: “Ralph #37, ready to debate whether Thai political space has expanded or not?”
Yes, go ahead and make your claims, with adequate justification and so on, and I’ll try to respond.
Sidh also asks: “And is that your answer to my question in #35 that you are thinking of an “international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles” to abolish LM laws? May I ask to what specific ends and for whom?” You answer yourself in the next paragraph. Just take out the question mark.
Sidh (the second S is for so many rhetorical questions, right?): “Will abolishing LM law make democracy work better in Thailand overnight?”
I was fortunate to be at the FCCT, to listen to Nick’s account and to buy a copy of the book. Well done Nick. The photos are an important part of a record for this recent period. I look forward to the next volume.
I truly wish I could have been to the launching of the book and I am very much looking forward to reading the book. I applaud Nick’s courage; there is such anger toward foreigners — even Thai-based foreigners — who recognize that the rural and working class people are not “too uneducated to make a choice for themselves.” There is such a need for those who can try to promote communication across what has become an extraordinarily wide chasm in Thai society. One hopes that Nick’s book will also be translated and made available in Thai.
Charles Biff Keyes
Re: The long term trend is completely flat – over the long term the real price of garlic has not changed.
Yes, that’s the purpose of using CPI-adjusted info. Well, there are two more points I’d like to mention here.
1. In Thailand, there are many CPI figures separately calculated & provided by Bank of Thailand and National Statistical Office. They are so interested in the core-CPI, that they target the RP rate on such a funny CPI. Though, those indexes are highly correlated, please make sure which CPI index you’d like to use.
2. If I can remember correctly, I’ve seen some example about a simple CPI-adjusted graph on front matter of Fa dieokan magazine. That’s about Ministry of Defense budget over several decades.
An article in The Irrawaddy today seems to clarify somewhat the KIO/KIA position on the Border Guard Force (BGF) and to what the number 326 applies. But given previous contradictory reporting on the KIO’s response to the proposed BGF by The Irrawaddy and others, this article as well may be misleading. Nevertheless,
At the end of April, Burmese army officials met with leaders of ethnic ceasefire groups, including the KIO, and explained the junta’s blueprint for transforming the armed forces of ethnic ceasefire groups into border guard forces ahead of the 2010 elections.
…
Under the plan, one border guard battalion would have 326 troops including 18 officers. There would be three commanders with the rank of major. Each battalion would have two majors drawn from ceasefire groups and one major drawn from the Tatmadaw in charge of administration.
At least according to this account, the KIO/KIA rejection of the BGF proposal appears to be based more on concerns over a loss of independence and “having Burmese military commanders in its ethnic armed forces,” than concerns over “the very limited armed strength they would be able to retain.”
Of course, it’s most likely that there’s a lot more going on than The Irrawaddy reports.
Also, I realise that the link to the BGF chart (Burmese language) from my last post is broken. A working link to the chart is here.
I have to disagree with naming the elephant after K Suwicha. It shows support for only one person, and it allows the Thai authorities no recourse. Even if K Suwicha is released and the law is changed, the public embarrassment of the elephant’s name still remains.
A letter writing campaign would be more effective at freeing K Suwicha and others like him. It would still demonstrate international concern about the LM laws of Thailand, but it would also engage the Thai authorities and let them save face if they wanted to modify the laws.
Does anyone know of any international letter writing campaigns to support people accused or convicted of LM offenses?
Nick, Chris Baker and good old FCCT: thanks a lot for a great evening. The packed audience was testament not only to the value of Nick’s work, but also to the high esteem in which FCCT is held, as a platform for the airing of diverse and intelligent views.
Chris Baker’s run-down on books by journalists, which have contributed to our understanding of Thailand, was much appreciated. I’m so pleased to have Nick’s book (signed, too!). I’m keeping it near others, some of which must remain unnamed.
One thing that came across very clearly as a theme of the evening was the importance and growing power of the internet (the blog, YouTube, instant messaging) as a form of alternative media. Now that we have mobile phones that can take & send pretty good pictures, high-resolution video cameras that can be easily concealed, and very portable means of getting the message onto the web, the forces that would manipulate the mainstream media are becoming shrinking giants.
The popularity of Nick’s work is evidence of that, as he says. I’m reminded of the events of last October, when I was out of Bangkok. If I’d had to rely on the pathetically biased & incredibly superficial local mainstream media, I’d have been right out of the picture. But on NM there was great information, pics & unbridled discussion. Thank Dog for NM & Nick!
Well done again. Just want to encourage you from being accused from those yellow shirts. I understand the feeling very well. They just spread allegation to any one who do not go along with them.
Recently, Kasit Pirom, the Foreign Minster supporter of the PAD, asked UAE to choose side between his government and Thaksin.
Also, the PAD rally today to the Police Club was to pressure the authority for being excessive charged. We can clearly see the PAD do not respect the others right or respect to the law.
It’s painful to say Thailand has double-standard.
What we really do know who’s behind the curtain.
It’s good to have your book and journalist like you. You don’t need to agree with the Red. Just report what you see. But if you need to dig more, read the Thai history and do some critical thinking then you will see the whole picture.
Honestly, i was terrified before the evening. I would rather go into a riot than facing this political minefield.
I would like to thank Chris Baker here as well for coming and serving as my bullet proof vest.
Without New Mandala this book would hardly been possible. I doubt that i would have written my articles this book is based upon if it would not have been for New Mandala (and all of you readers – both critics and supporters!).
I am very much indebted to Andrew and Nich for giving me this opportunity, and to Michael Nelson for persuading me to write for New Mandala.
Sidh S you are 1000% on target here! Khun Ing K’s writing and Ajarn Manit Sriwanichpoom’s images have been amongst the most encouraging and uplifting experiences I have had since moving to Thailand. Anyone who has a chance to visit Manit’s Kathmandu photogallery in Bangkok should take a look at his book of photos called “Protest” which records a year of Tuesday protests outside Government House, Tuesday being the day the cabinet meets. It is an education, as is the mind blowing and passionate introduction in English and Thai written by Ing K. Khun Manit has a new book coming out later in the year.
I am also trying to track down “Citizen Juling” which I am very anxious to see. I would appreciate any indications as to where and when I might find it.
Nick, I deeply appreciate your very important work and for giving voice to the Thai poor. I also appreciate your transparency and sincerity to the subject matter you report on. Reading your account here, I have the same feelings about KhunIng K, AjarnManit Sriwanichpoom and AjarnKraisak Choonhavan’s documentary “Citizen Juling”, which initially faced a lot of barrier getting general release – that it is something every Thai should see/read. Awareness and empathy across social classes and cultures are critical ingredients for Thailand to be “on track to become a developed and successful country” and your work makes highly significant contribution to that process.
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Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Hi Nick,
I enjoyed reading the transcript of your talk and it rings true with what I observed during four years of living in Thailand and working within a key Thai government organisation.
In my job I occasionally brought Australian officials out to lead seminars in which we would often divide into syndicate groups to focus on particular issues. I recall on one occasion a Thai colleague who was also running the seminar came and said to me,”Thai people don’t like to talk to each other”. Of course we all know they do, but what he meant was that its hard for Thai people, at least some, to exchange opinions on deeper and significant matters with others with whom they are not close.
Communication, debate and managed disagreement are so fundamental to democracy and yet there is not yet a strong culture of this in Thailand. I think this is coming though, and I agree with you Nick, that when Thailand has passed through this period of difficult division, that Thailand will be a much better country – more productive, diverse, vibrant and thoughtful.
A campaign for Suwicha
Scott,
I disagree with you; naming the elephant Suwicha will also generate stories of the little elephant and generate a reminder against Thailand’s medieval LM law every single time that elephant makes it into the news.
I think it is a smart idea, but the campaign itself needs a lot more help, perhaps one can convince Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert or some other New/comic personality to take up the issue.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Nick,
Thank you for your work and congratulations on your success, it is very well-deserved.
look forward to more reports as the Thai political situation is still in a state of flux.
– Bkkeater
Support Suwicha Thakor
The odd of naming Thong Dee’s son Suwicha would be much greater than a million to one.
Where’s Vajiralongkorn?
Overwhelmed at #6: On Wednesday, as I waited for the skytrain at rush hour, I noticed hordes of policemen descend on the street below and clear it. Sure enough, a royal cavalcade zoomed through the suddenly empty streets with a policeman at every side road and driveway.
No real idea who it was. Maybe Sirindhorn as she was in the same car in news reports. The largest car was a big yellow Benz and the majority of cars were also yellow Benzs. I counted the convoy – 23 vehicles, with 4 of them press cars. So the prince wins.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Without internet access for the past day or so, I decided to take Sidh’s advice, provided above, and go out and ask Thais what they think of LM and the monarchy. As I said above, I consider this approach statistically unsound and better done by an organisation that does this task professionally. But I had some time, so a quick and dirty “survey” seemed like fun.
I used structured questions rather than the open-ended “What’s your beef?” Here are the results for 4 questions, in gross numbers, for a small sample of 12 people:
1. Should Thailand reform its LM law?
Result: Yes (8*) No (1) No answer or don’t know (4)
2. Is the monarchy involved in politics?
Result: Yes (7) No (2) No answer or don’t know (3)
3. Should Prem resign?
Result: Yes (5) No (5) No answer or don’t know (2)
4. Will the king die at some time in the future?
Result: Yes (4) No (6) No answer or don’t know (2)
Analysis: The people surveyed were 4 taxi drivers, a counterfeit watch vendor, a policeman, a non-commissioned army officer, a bank clerk, 2 university professors, and 2 retail workers.
There were meant to be 14 in the survey. The businessman I was to interview withdrew when I refused to take a bribe to answer the questions for him. A politician said that the questions were complicated and so he needed to consult his astrologer before responding.
The “No answer or don’t know” are occupied by the soldier and the policeman in all cases except Q. 4, and joined by a professor in Q’s 1 and 2. The policeman said that he couldn’t answer any question because if he answered truthfully, he’d have to arrest himself. The soldier refused to answer because he was from the Lopburi special warfare unit and involved in plots to assassinate political figures on all sides and felt that answering would have been a conflict of interest.
Q. 1 adds to more than 12 because one of the taxi drivers answered that reform was not enough and that the law and the people it protects should be done away with. I thought that was worth 2 Yes answers.
For Q. 4, the 2 “No answer or don’t know” responses were from the professors.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Sidh asks: “Ralph #37, ready to debate whether Thai political space has expanded or not?”
Yes, go ahead and make your claims, with adequate justification and so on, and I’ll try to respond.
Sidh also asks: “And is that your answer to my question in #35 that you are thinking of an “international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles” to abolish LM laws? May I ask to what specific ends and for whom?” You answer yourself in the next paragraph. Just take out the question mark.
Sidh (the second S is for so many rhetorical questions, right?): “Will abolishing LM law make democracy work better in Thailand overnight?”
Yes.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
I was fortunate to be at the FCCT, to listen to Nick’s account and to buy a copy of the book. Well done Nick. The photos are an important part of a record for this recent period. I look forward to the next volume.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
I truly wish I could have been to the launching of the book and I am very much looking forward to reading the book. I applaud Nick’s courage; there is such anger toward foreigners — even Thai-based foreigners — who recognize that the rural and working class people are not “too uneducated to make a choice for themselves.” There is such a need for those who can try to promote communication across what has become an extraordinarily wide chasm in Thai society. One hopes that Nick’s book will also be translated and made available in Thai.
Charles Biff Keyes
Thai ephemera
[…] Here we present three more images from the current National Libary of Australia Asian Collections Thai Ephemera display. […]
The garlic roller coaster
Re: The long term trend is completely flat – over the long term the real price of garlic has not changed.
Yes, that’s the purpose of using CPI-adjusted info. Well, there are two more points I’d like to mention here.
1. In Thailand, there are many CPI figures separately calculated & provided by Bank of Thailand and National Statistical Office. They are so interested in the core-CPI, that they target the RP rate on such a funny CPI. Though, those indexes are highly correlated, please make sure which CPI index you’d like to use.
2. If I can remember correctly, I’ve seen some example about a simple CPI-adjusted graph on front matter of Fa dieokan magazine. That’s about Ministry of Defense budget over several decades.
Burma’s general objectives
An article in The Irrawaddy today seems to clarify somewhat the KIO/KIA position on the Border Guard Force (BGF) and to what the number 326 applies. But given previous contradictory reporting on the KIO’s response to the proposed BGF by The Irrawaddy and others, this article as well may be misleading. Nevertheless,
At least according to this account, the KIO/KIA rejection of the BGF proposal appears to be based more on concerns over a loss of independence and “having Burmese military commanders in its ethnic armed forces,” than concerns over “the very limited armed strength they would be able to retain.”
Of course, it’s most likely that there’s a lot more going on than The Irrawaddy reports.
Also, I realise that the link to the BGF chart (Burmese language) from my last post is broken. A working link to the chart is here.
A campaign for Suwicha
I have to disagree with naming the elephant after K Suwicha. It shows support for only one person, and it allows the Thai authorities no recourse. Even if K Suwicha is released and the law is changed, the public embarrassment of the elephant’s name still remains.
A letter writing campaign would be more effective at freeing K Suwicha and others like him. It would still demonstrate international concern about the LM laws of Thailand, but it would also engage the Thai authorities and let them save face if they wanted to modify the laws.
Does anyone know of any international letter writing campaigns to support people accused or convicted of LM offenses?
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Nick, Chris Baker and good old FCCT: thanks a lot for a great evening. The packed audience was testament not only to the value of Nick’s work, but also to the high esteem in which FCCT is held, as a platform for the airing of diverse and intelligent views.
Chris Baker’s run-down on books by journalists, which have contributed to our understanding of Thailand, was much appreciated. I’m so pleased to have Nick’s book (signed, too!). I’m keeping it near others, some of which must remain unnamed.
One thing that came across very clearly as a theme of the evening was the importance and growing power of the internet (the blog, YouTube, instant messaging) as a form of alternative media. Now that we have mobile phones that can take & send pretty good pictures, high-resolution video cameras that can be easily concealed, and very portable means of getting the message onto the web, the forces that would manipulate the mainstream media are becoming shrinking giants.
The popularity of Nick’s work is evidence of that, as he says. I’m reminded of the events of last October, when I was out of Bangkok. If I’d had to rely on the pathetically biased & incredibly superficial local mainstream media, I’d have been right out of the picture. But on NM there was great information, pics & unbridled discussion. Thank Dog for NM & Nick!
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Nick
Well done again. Just want to encourage you from being accused from those yellow shirts. I understand the feeling very well. They just spread allegation to any one who do not go along with them.
Recently, Kasit Pirom, the Foreign Minster supporter of the PAD, asked UAE to choose side between his government and Thaksin.
Also, the PAD rally today to the Police Club was to pressure the authority for being excessive charged. We can clearly see the PAD do not respect the others right or respect to the law.
It’s painful to say Thailand has double-standard.
What we really do know who’s behind the curtain.
It’s good to have your book and journalist like you. You don’t need to agree with the Red. Just report what you see. But if you need to dig more, read the Thai history and do some critical thinking then you will see the whole picture.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Thank you very much again. 🙂
Honestly, i was terrified before the evening. I would rather go into a riot than facing this political minefield.
I would like to thank Chris Baker here as well for coming and serving as my bullet proof vest.
Without New Mandala this book would hardly been possible. I doubt that i would have written my articles this book is based upon if it would not have been for New Mandala (and all of you readers – both critics and supporters!).
I am very much indebted to Andrew and Nich for giving me this opportunity, and to Michael Nelson for persuading me to write for New Mandala.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Sidh S you are 1000% on target here! Khun Ing K’s writing and Ajarn Manit Sriwanichpoom’s images have been amongst the most encouraging and uplifting experiences I have had since moving to Thailand. Anyone who has a chance to visit Manit’s Kathmandu photogallery in Bangkok should take a look at his book of photos called “Protest” which records a year of Tuesday protests outside Government House, Tuesday being the day the cabinet meets. It is an education, as is the mind blowing and passionate introduction in English and Thai written by Ing K. Khun Manit has a new book coming out later in the year.
I am also trying to track down “Citizen Juling” which I am very anxious to see. I would appreciate any indications as to where and when I might find it.
A campaign for Suwicha
[…] […]
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
Nick, I deeply appreciate your very important work and for giving voice to the Thai poor. I also appreciate your transparency and sincerity to the subject matter you report on. Reading your account here, I have the same feelings about KhunIng K, AjarnManit Sriwanichpoom and AjarnKraisak Choonhavan’s documentary “Citizen Juling”, which initially faced a lot of barrier getting general release – that it is something every Thai should see/read. Awareness and empathy across social classes and cultures are critical ingredients for Thailand to be “on track to become a developed and successful country” and your work makes highly significant contribution to that process.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
great piece, look forward to ordering the book. will it be available online?