Thanks so much. That was truly fascinating. Whets my appetite for more. The books explaining the Thai language to foreigners never seem to venture far beyond sentences like “Please give me one fried rice and a beer.”
It has national production data for garlic from 1999 to 2008. FAOSTAT has production data going back to 1961. Their data comes from the OAE as far as I can see.
I also have another OAE publication with import, export and consumption data for the years 2006-2008 but I can’t find the link to it on their website anymore, it just went through a re-design. I could email it if it would be of interest. Here is a link to the previous year’s edition with data from 2005-2007. http://www.oae.go.th/download/document/commodity.pdf
1. In relation to production data: I have some data but only for a few more recent years. If anyone has any suggestions about a source for longer term production data at a national level I would be very grateful.
2. In relation to garlic import data: I also only have some data for a few more recent years (but not the most recent years as the Thai customs data for garlic imports seems to stop at 2006. ) Again, suggestions about sources would be greatly appreciated. However I suspect that import data is going to give a rather incomplete picture given relatively high levels of smuggling.
3. As for adjusting the garlic price data for inflation: I would love to do this. But I am not sure how to. Can someone help? If I had the inflation figure for each year I suppose I could figure out the maths. [Update: in fact I have tried it using some inflation data I found. The long term trend is completely flat – over the long term the real price of garlic has not changed. But the short term boom and bust pattern is equally evident, though some of the detail is modified.]
Ralph #37, ready to debate whether Thai political space has expanded or not? And is that your answer to my question in #35 that you are thinking of an “international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles” to abolish LM laws? May I ask to what specific ends and for whom?
For Thai Democracy? Will abolishing LM law make democracy work better in Thailand overnight? Will it influence Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam along the path to democracy? For the Thai urban and rural poor? To end the endemic corruption that is a major barrier to their betterment in life? I strongly doubt it and I see democracy as so much more messier and complex. States such as California or New York are struggling to find a more workable system and the same applies for Thailand. Let’s advocate for the clauses in the constitution that empowers and protects the rights of the poor and the marginalized. It is a much more direct and immensely more beneficial path.
Otherwise if the objective of abolishing LM laws is for foreigners, foreign academic to say anything the want anywhere and at anytime in the world – then it is your right and I respect that. Just don’t misrepresent it with altruism and claim that it is for the “brainwashed” and ignorant Thais. It is not as they are clearly much better paths if altruism is the real objective.
LSS#36, agree with you on most points – except that I must stress my kinsmen can defend for themselves. It is rather arrogant to say that foreigners need to/could do it for them. Let’s not forget to mark a recent foreign dignitary’s death with similar/parallel attitude – ‘gotta save the Southeast Asians from Communism’ Robert McNamara. Well meaning? With hindsight and the millions of deaths in Southeast Asia, I can’t even give him the benefit of the doubt.
It is also highly arrogant to assume that I don’t have those freedoms and benefits you mentioned back in Thailand. I am part of the privileged, Thai middleclass who’s lifestyle does not differ much from developed country’s middleclass – safe for the horrendous traffic and hot-humid weather, the very clear pluses of being in Melbourne. LSS, do remember that I am Thai and LM law punishes Thais more severely – contrary to Westerners who fall foul of the law who can whine to their governments out in little time. Even then, I do not feel limited nor suppressed as you like to assume Thais feel (from observations here, it seem to afflict the foreigner disproportionally). I write here as I would write in Thailand without the need to flirt with an existing law.
And lets have some humility here and not overestimate our navel gazing on LM in NM as a “political struggle” with “international solidarity” as Ralph#37 claims it to be. Thailand hardly registers in the global media nor in discussions of global strategic geopolitics – only an occasional rare article such as from some of us in NM in Australia or a couple from international one like the Economist. When my Australian colleagues/friends who, like most foreigners hardly know anything about Thailand, browses these articles and ask me if we are still ruled by a monarchy, I know who to hold responsible for such extreme misrepresentations – which is unhelpful and does more harm than good.
Finally, LSS, apart from the inhabitants of the Anglosphere, let’s also acknowledge the indigenous and colored populations that arguably sacrificed as much, if not more, for those freedoms and opportunities. It is great credit to the Siamese/Thai monarchy/elite that Siam/Thailand did not have to, historically, suffer as much. I am deeply indebted and thankful to both traditions. Sorry, I cannot help remove the sour taste from your mouth – I can only try.
Sidh: And, you have gone in a circle. Back to the foreign/Thai dichotomy and you say “If not, you need healthy doses of Thai worldviews. You will also be surprised by what is discussed. No, foreign intellectual capacity and talent is unnecessary here and could be applied elsewhere to much greater benefits to the Thais and mainland Southeast Asians.” That is a remarkable statement for a range of reasons. Another example of what LSS refers to as your mendacity. I’d just repeat that you are inhabiting the space of Laksana and uber-nationalists of similar ilk. It is an unpleasant space. LSS is right about sitting on hands and it is undeniable that international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles.
To translate it as “brothel..” is therefore misleading, I think. “р╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕З” means “to gather” or “gathering” here (р╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕б), i.e. “illegal gathering” (criminal gathering).
Ralph#32, we agree there. I’ve always maintained that let the Thais deal with LM (and I am certain they will deal with the law at the right time of their own choosing) and my position, as another Thai and self-defined ‘critical monarchist’, is generally consistent with AjarnSumet’s and AjarnSulak’s. If you are a foreigner Ralph, you have your freedom in websites such as this or in your own country to criticize Thailand’s monarchy to your heart’s content. However if you go to Thailand, you are expected to respect the law as it stands – as you would for any other country, even if you don’t like it.
I can’t tell if you’re being willfully mendacious or just ignorant on this point. Considering after l’affaire YouTube, the Thai legislature had the hubris to claim world-wide jurisdiction with their various leges maiestates, you don’t have the luxury to defend the Thai lèse majesté laws with a “р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕┤р╣Ир╕з р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕┤р╣Ир╕зр╕Хр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕б” (“When in Rome…”) argument. And trust me, given the fanatical nature of many Thais concerning this topic, if the Thai government had the resources, they would send agents abroad to hunt down and capture serial monarch-criticizers, Elie Wiesel-style.
So, no Sidh, we foreigners involved in the academic study of the Thai language, people, politics, and culture cannot just sit on our hands, when a off-hand comment, a serious discussion or even an academic paper presented in our home institutions, however truthful, can lead to imprisionment when we visit family and friends in Thailand.
To be honest, Sidh, I’ve always gotten a sour taste in my mouth from you, as you sit in Australia, taking advantage of the long heritage of individual freedom, equality of opportunity, and material wealth that generations of inhabitants of the Anglosphere have struggled, fought, and died for; while you defend those who would deny the same advantages to your own kinsmen that do not have the ability or desire to emigrate to another country in order to pursue their own happiness, as you have done.
This graph is really interesting.
About the 4-year cycle. As suggested by Dekchaikimhan, it would be nice to couple the price data with other data, in particular national production. If this 4-year cycle is caused at least in part by mini-boom-bust in production (which are caused by the farmers’ general tendency to go in and out of the market as prices go up and down), there should be a similar cycle in production occurring one year in advance of the price’s cycle. Btw, Kuntum (2003) identified from a short-term time series a 2-year cycle in the price of maize. Not sure what the cause is.
Notice also that garlic was in a downward trend when the price of other crops was rising to the top in 2007-early 2008.
About the long-term trend. I assume you plotted the price in nominal value. I know this is not your point, but I’d be curious to see what the trend would be if you use the price in constant value.
ref: Kuntum K. (2003) An Analysis of Price Movement and Market lntegration of Maize in Thailand: A Case Study of Petchabun Province and Nakhon Ratchasima Province. [in thai]. Bangkok: Kasetsart University.
My English is far from perfect but I wouldn’t use the word ‘brothel’, instead i might have used something like… ‘ an association of a pack of treacherous criminals’..
Thanks for the clarifications. You don’t have to tell me about hazing; I went to a college in India. My intention was not in the least to condone hazing (who on Earth does but the hazers??) and indeed the word ”inconvenient” may have been a poor choice.
I was trying to make two points – that not everyone has the luxury of paying upwards of A$ 20,000 per annum to get away from the hazing menace. And, more to the point, I have personally yet to come across cases of Indian students leaving India just to get away from hazing. Hazing may well be part of a cocktail of factors, but I would suggest that it is a small part; others are far more powerful, and they are the traditional ones – a good degree, a stimulating academic environment, exposure to other cultures and so forth. Australia in this regard has a very positive image, that’s why so many Indian (and other Asian) students go there. One hopes it does not suffer, but for it not to suffer the roots of the problem need to be addressed.
As I said, I have yet to come across the kinds of cases you suggest. I haven’t done any research on this. Maybe you have come across dozens, in which case I would take your point.
In any case, this is straying from the central issue – your question whether the attacks have been racist or opportunistic. I take it since you did not take issue with what I posted on that subject, we are in agreement that opportunism is a given, and that these attacks are indeed racist?
Ralph: Presumably. But you read me incorrectly. I said: “Try blaming those who keep the law exactly for the purpose of narrowing the political space.” I wasn’t talking about the present but the historical use of LM. You can look at the statistics on this in the well-circulated Streckfuss and Thanapol article. That said, I do not think that political space is expanding in Thailand just now, but that’s a separate debate.
Sidh: Historically, whether LM law is active or not, Thai political space has always expanded. We are no longer in 1932, nor 1973, 1976, 1992, even 2006 when the military realized that they are ill-suited for modern government. Why not debate this here?
Ralph: That wasn’t the point. Yes, Thais can deal with it, eventually, but if the free and open discussion of the LM law and of the monarchy is not permitted, then as has been the case for quite some time, foreign interest and political space is useful and, arguably, necessary.
Sidh: Are you Thai, Ralph? Or are you as fluent in Thai as the locals and has gained enough trust from them to privately discuss the monarchy? If not, you need healthy doses of Thai worldviews. You will also be surprised by what is discussed. No, foreign intellectual capacity and talent is unnecessary here and could be applied elsewhere to much greater benefits to the Thais and mainland Southeast Asians.
Ralph: No such point was made.
Sidh: Ah, but you have said that it should be “abolished” in #11 – a rather wonderfully naive proposition considering current realities and complexities. I would like to know how you propose it could be abolished?
Ralph: Not sure what this means. For too long, analysts of Thai politics left out the monarchy and LM. Bringing it back in makes analysis more complete than it has been in the past. Thai scholars remain heavily constrained in what they can write and say on these topics.
Sidh: Until I see an analysis here that is actually complete, I have to disagree.
Your last sentence ”I hope that highlighting of violence by the Indian students leads to a safer community for everyone in Australia” oddly seems to seek to transfer the blame to the victims.
Your analysis of my comment is breathtaking.
I applaud the Indian students who have raised and or reported to police acts of violence whatever the motivation of the attackers. I hardly see how wishing for a safer community for all is transferring blame to victims.
Your use of the phrase “inconvenient hazing” is laughable, like me describing attacks on Indian students as inconvenient violence.
For anyone interested google “ragging” as hazing is known in India.
Harsh Agarwal, co-founder of the Coalition to Uproot Ragging says
“The biggest hurdle is no one believes ragging is a social evil, when an entire society believes in this, how is enforcement of the law possible?
That seems to sum up your attitude Nirmal.
Michael #9, a lot of reflexive, complicated thinking going on there and I sense we agree more than disagree. I certainly wish that the government and bureaucracy, of any political color, are more sincere in addressing the sufferings of the rural and urban poor. Don’t get me wrong here, there have been many good policies and hard working bureaucrats – and by many international measures, there have been marked improvement in the socio-economic conditions of the Thai people over the years. But clearly much more could be done – and important policies such as land reform and agriculture produce mortgage (which I don’t fully understand yet) seems to be consistently exploited by the politicians.
There is also the unprecedented challenge of becoming an agriculture-based ‘developed’ society – as it is arguably much easier to focus on industrialization on a path to higher incomes and better quality of life (path of the ‘Tiger Economies’). I am not sure if this is even possible. On the other hand, this path of industrialization seem increasingly hard with China (and India) as competition, quickly taking over in becoming the world’s factory.
Would PMThaksin be the man, the only person able to negotiate a future rosy economic path for Thailand? I strongly doubt it as he was prime minister when the world economy was expanding. It seems to be the fate of the Democrats to take the rein during economic crises.
Is PMThaksin sincere with rural poor? That I also strongly doubt as evidences abound that he seemed to be consistently driven by self-interests more than anything else – and arguably more than any politicians before him and since (Mr.Newin is also on this path, I suspect). This did not come as a surprise for me as at the end of day, he is a business tycoon, first and foremost. It actually took some years of training at Palang Dharma Party before he found his political footing…
On the issue of “brainwashed Thais”, we can safely say that both the Reds and Yellows have been pretty much radicalized and brainwashed by their respective elites (led by master manipulators par excellence, PMThaksin and TycoonSonthi). Any politician who can re-create the common, middle space will be able to set society back on a stable path. However, any politician trying to position themselves in the middle could easily end up with enemies on both sides (as the PMAbhisit and the Democrats are quickly finding out). On the other hand, these conflicts will remain as long as PMThaksin is active – and a possible scenario is that, with time, this becomes ‘normalized’ and Thais, of all shades, just gets used to it until PMThaksin retires. I suspect that life will carry on – unless PMThaksin makes a killing in one of his worldwide investment ventures.
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Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
I greatly admire your courage and conviction. I will look forward to reading your book.
Nick Nostitz at the FCCT
What an interesting and lively presentation from Nick. I wish I could have been there.
Red, yellow, Nostitz, Baker and the “brothel of treacherous criminals” – an evening not to be missed!
Thanks so much. That was truly fascinating. Whets my appetite for more. The books explaining the Thai language to foreigners never seem to venture far beyond sentences like “Please give me one fried rice and a beer.”
The garlic roller coaster
I don’t know if you already have this, but here is a link to the Office of Agricultural Economics Yearbook: http://www.oae.go.th/download/journal/yearbook50.pdf
It has national production data for garlic from 1999 to 2008. FAOSTAT has production data going back to 1961. Their data comes from the OAE as far as I can see.
I also have another OAE publication with import, export and consumption data for the years 2006-2008 but I can’t find the link to it on their website anymore, it just went through a re-design. I could email it if it would be of interest. Here is a link to the previous year’s edition with data from 2005-2007.
http://www.oae.go.th/download/document/commodity.pdf
The garlic roller coaster
Thanks for the comments. Very helpful.
1. In relation to production data: I have some data but only for a few more recent years. If anyone has any suggestions about a source for longer term production data at a national level I would be very grateful.
2. In relation to garlic import data: I also only have some data for a few more recent years (but not the most recent years as the Thai customs data for garlic imports seems to stop at 2006. ) Again, suggestions about sources would be greatly appreciated. However I suspect that import data is going to give a rather incomplete picture given relatively high levels of smuggling.
3. As for adjusting the garlic price data for inflation: I would love to do this. But I am not sure how to. Can someone help? If I had the inflation figure for each year I suppose I could figure out the maths. [Update: in fact I have tried it using some inflation data I found. The long term trend is completely flat – over the long term the real price of garlic has not changed. But the short term boom and bust pattern is equally evident, though some of the detail is modified.]
Looking forward to further useful contributions.
AW
Red, yellow, Nostitz, Baker and the “brothel of treacherous criminals” – an evening not to be missed!
I got the expression from here: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1296
The garlic roller coaster
Fascinating and beautiful graph. As Jean-Philipe#2 mentioned, it would be interesting to see the graph adjusted for inflation/deflation.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Ralph #37, ready to debate whether Thai political space has expanded or not? And is that your answer to my question in #35 that you are thinking of an “international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles” to abolish LM laws? May I ask to what specific ends and for whom?
For Thai Democracy? Will abolishing LM law make democracy work better in Thailand overnight? Will it influence Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam along the path to democracy? For the Thai urban and rural poor? To end the endemic corruption that is a major barrier to their betterment in life? I strongly doubt it and I see democracy as so much more messier and complex. States such as California or New York are struggling to find a more workable system and the same applies for Thailand. Let’s advocate for the clauses in the constitution that empowers and protects the rights of the poor and the marginalized. It is a much more direct and immensely more beneficial path.
Otherwise if the objective of abolishing LM laws is for foreigners, foreign academic to say anything the want anywhere and at anytime in the world – then it is your right and I respect that. Just don’t misrepresent it with altruism and claim that it is for the “brainwashed” and ignorant Thais. It is not as they are clearly much better paths if altruism is the real objective.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
LSS#36, agree with you on most points – except that I must stress my kinsmen can defend for themselves. It is rather arrogant to say that foreigners need to/could do it for them. Let’s not forget to mark a recent foreign dignitary’s death with similar/parallel attitude – ‘gotta save the Southeast Asians from Communism’ Robert McNamara. Well meaning? With hindsight and the millions of deaths in Southeast Asia, I can’t even give him the benefit of the doubt.
It is also highly arrogant to assume that I don’t have those freedoms and benefits you mentioned back in Thailand. I am part of the privileged, Thai middleclass who’s lifestyle does not differ much from developed country’s middleclass – safe for the horrendous traffic and hot-humid weather, the very clear pluses of being in Melbourne. LSS, do remember that I am Thai and LM law punishes Thais more severely – contrary to Westerners who fall foul of the law who can whine to their governments out in little time. Even then, I do not feel limited nor suppressed as you like to assume Thais feel (from observations here, it seem to afflict the foreigner disproportionally). I write here as I would write in Thailand without the need to flirt with an existing law.
And lets have some humility here and not overestimate our navel gazing on LM in NM as a “political struggle” with “international solidarity” as Ralph#37 claims it to be. Thailand hardly registers in the global media nor in discussions of global strategic geopolitics – only an occasional rare article such as from some of us in NM in Australia or a couple from international one like the Economist. When my Australian colleagues/friends who, like most foreigners hardly know anything about Thailand, browses these articles and ask me if we are still ruled by a monarchy, I know who to hold responsible for such extreme misrepresentations – which is unhelpful and does more harm than good.
Finally, LSS, apart from the inhabitants of the Anglosphere, let’s also acknowledge the indigenous and colored populations that arguably sacrificed as much, if not more, for those freedoms and opportunities. It is great credit to the Siamese/Thai monarchy/elite that Siam/Thailand did not have to, historically, suffer as much. I am deeply indebted and thankful to both traditions. Sorry, I cannot help remove the sour taste from your mouth – I can only try.
Burma’s general objectives
At least they are supposedly fighting the drug trade. I find it hard to believe though. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crimes/20223/one-tonne-of-heroin-seized-in-tachilek
Problems in Australia’s overseas student program
Stephen (7), your sample seems larger than the one I have to go by, and you may be right. If so, I’m glad to be corrected.
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Sidh: And, you have gone in a circle. Back to the foreign/Thai dichotomy and you say “If not, you need healthy doses of Thai worldviews. You will also be surprised by what is discussed. No, foreign intellectual capacity and talent is unnecessary here and could be applied elsewhere to much greater benefits to the Thais and mainland Southeast Asians.” That is a remarkable statement for a range of reasons. Another example of what LSS refers to as your mendacity. I’d just repeat that you are inhabiting the space of Laksana and uber-nationalists of similar ilk. It is an unpleasant space. LSS is right about sitting on hands and it is undeniable that international solidarity movements make a difference in political struggles.
Red, yellow, Nostitz, Baker and the “brothel of treacherous criminals” – an evening not to be missed!
Anyone know what the original Thai language phrase was that the English translation “brothel of treacherous criminals” came from?Just curious.
“р╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Вр╕Ир╕г”
The word is actually a legal technical term, a criminal offence. See article 210 of the Criminal Code:
р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕▓ 210 р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕Фр╕кр╕бр╕Др╕бр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕Др╕Щр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Др╕Ыр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Чр╕│р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Гр╕Фр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Нр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╣Др╕зр╣Йр╣Гр╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕Д р╣Т р╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕│р╕лр╕Щр╕Фр╣Вр╕Чр╕йр╕Ир╕│р╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Ыр╕╡р╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Др╕Ы р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕│р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Вр╕Ир╕г р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▓р╕Зр╣Вр╕Чр╕йр╕Ир╕│р╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Щр╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕Ыр╕╡ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ыр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕╖р╣Ир╕Щр╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Ир╕│р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
To translate it as “brothel..” is therefore misleading, I think. “р╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕З” means “to gather” or “gathering” here (р╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕б), i.e. “illegal gathering” (criminal gathering).
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
re: Sidh
Ralph#32, we agree there. I’ve always maintained that let the Thais deal with LM (and I am certain they will deal with the law at the right time of their own choosing) and my position, as another Thai and self-defined ‘critical monarchist’, is generally consistent with AjarnSumet’s and AjarnSulak’s. If you are a foreigner Ralph, you have your freedom in websites such as this or in your own country to criticize Thailand’s monarchy to your heart’s content. However if you go to Thailand, you are expected to respect the law as it stands – as you would for any other country, even if you don’t like it.
I can’t tell if you’re being willfully mendacious or just ignorant on this point. Considering after l’affaire YouTube, the Thai legislature had the hubris to claim world-wide jurisdiction with their various leges maiestates, you don’t have the luxury to defend the Thai lèse majesté laws with a “р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕┤р╣Ир╕з р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕┤р╣Ир╕зр╕Хр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕б” (“When in Rome…”) argument. And trust me, given the fanatical nature of many Thais concerning this topic, if the Thai government had the resources, they would send agents abroad to hunt down and capture serial monarch-criticizers, Elie Wiesel-style.
So, no Sidh, we foreigners involved in the academic study of the Thai language, people, politics, and culture cannot just sit on our hands, when a off-hand comment, a serious discussion or even an academic paper presented in our home institutions, however truthful, can lead to imprisionment when we visit family and friends in Thailand.
To be honest, Sidh, I’ve always gotten a sour taste in my mouth from you, as you sit in Australia, taking advantage of the long heritage of individual freedom, equality of opportunity, and material wealth that generations of inhabitants of the Anglosphere have struggled, fought, and died for; while you defend those who would deny the same advantages to your own kinsmen that do not have the ability or desire to emigrate to another country in order to pursue their own happiness, as you have done.
The garlic roller coaster
This graph is really interesting.
About the 4-year cycle. As suggested by Dekchaikimhan, it would be nice to couple the price data with other data, in particular national production. If this 4-year cycle is caused at least in part by mini-boom-bust in production (which are caused by the farmers’ general tendency to go in and out of the market as prices go up and down), there should be a similar cycle in production occurring one year in advance of the price’s cycle. Btw, Kuntum (2003) identified from a short-term time series a 2-year cycle in the price of maize. Not sure what the cause is.
Notice also that garlic was in a downward trend when the price of other crops was rising to the top in 2007-early 2008.
About the long-term trend. I assume you plotted the price in nominal value. I know this is not your point, but I’d be curious to see what the trend would be if you use the price in constant value.
ref: Kuntum K. (2003) An Analysis of Price Movement and Market lntegration of Maize in Thailand: A Case Study of Petchabun Province and Nakhon Ratchasima Province. [in thai]. Bangkok: Kasetsart University.
Red, yellow, Nostitz, Baker and the “brothel of treacherous criminals” – an evening not to be missed!
I haven’t seen the Thai version but I’d guess it’s a bad translation of the following:
р╣Бр╕лр╕ер╣Ир╕Зр╕Лр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕бр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕▓р╕Кр╕Нр╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕Чр╕гр╕вр╕и/р╕Вр╕▓р╕вр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤
My English is far from perfect but I wouldn’t use the word ‘brothel’, instead i might have used something like… ‘ an association of a pack of treacherous criminals’..
Problems in Australia’s overseas student program
Hi, Dulcify,
Thanks for the clarifications. You don’t have to tell me about hazing; I went to a college in India. My intention was not in the least to condone hazing (who on Earth does but the hazers??) and indeed the word ”inconvenient” may have been a poor choice.
I was trying to make two points – that not everyone has the luxury of paying upwards of A$ 20,000 per annum to get away from the hazing menace. And, more to the point, I have personally yet to come across cases of Indian students leaving India just to get away from hazing. Hazing may well be part of a cocktail of factors, but I would suggest that it is a small part; others are far more powerful, and they are the traditional ones – a good degree, a stimulating academic environment, exposure to other cultures and so forth. Australia in this regard has a very positive image, that’s why so many Indian (and other Asian) students go there. One hopes it does not suffer, but for it not to suffer the roots of the problem need to be addressed.
As I said, I have yet to come across the kinds of cases you suggest. I haven’t done any research on this. Maybe you have come across dozens, in which case I would take your point.
In any case, this is straying from the central issue – your question whether the attacks have been racist or opportunistic. I take it since you did not take issue with what I posted on that subject, we are in agreement that opportunism is a given, and that these attacks are indeed racist?
“An attack on the rights of journalists”
Ralph: Presumably. But you read me incorrectly. I said: “Try blaming those who keep the law exactly for the purpose of narrowing the political space.” I wasn’t talking about the present but the historical use of LM. You can look at the statistics on this in the well-circulated Streckfuss and Thanapol article. That said, I do not think that political space is expanding in Thailand just now, but that’s a separate debate.
Sidh: Historically, whether LM law is active or not, Thai political space has always expanded. We are no longer in 1932, nor 1973, 1976, 1992, even 2006 when the military realized that they are ill-suited for modern government. Why not debate this here?
Ralph: That wasn’t the point. Yes, Thais can deal with it, eventually, but if the free and open discussion of the LM law and of the monarchy is not permitted, then as has been the case for quite some time, foreign interest and political space is useful and, arguably, necessary.
Sidh: Are you Thai, Ralph? Or are you as fluent in Thai as the locals and has gained enough trust from them to privately discuss the monarchy? If not, you need healthy doses of Thai worldviews. You will also be surprised by what is discussed. No, foreign intellectual capacity and talent is unnecessary here and could be applied elsewhere to much greater benefits to the Thais and mainland Southeast Asians.
Ralph: No such point was made.
Sidh: Ah, but you have said that it should be “abolished” in #11 – a rather wonderfully naive proposition considering current realities and complexities. I would like to know how you propose it could be abolished?
Ralph: Not sure what this means. For too long, analysts of Thai politics left out the monarchy and LM. Bringing it back in makes analysis more complete than it has been in the past. Thai scholars remain heavily constrained in what they can write and say on these topics.
Sidh: Until I see an analysis here that is actually complete, I have to disagree.
Problems in Australia’s overseas student program
Your last sentence ”I hope that highlighting of violence by the Indian students leads to a safer community for everyone in Australia” oddly seems to seek to transfer the blame to the victims.
Your analysis of my comment is breathtaking.
I applaud the Indian students who have raised and or reported to police acts of violence whatever the motivation of the attackers. I hardly see how wishing for a safer community for all is transferring blame to victims.
Your use of the phrase “inconvenient hazing” is laughable, like me describing attacks on Indian students as inconvenient violence.
For anyone interested google “ragging” as hazing is known in India.
Harsh Agarwal, co-founder of the Coalition to Uproot Ragging says
“The biggest hurdle is no one believes ragging is a social evil, when an entire society believes in this, how is enforcement of the law possible?
That seems to sum up your attitude Nirmal.
kebenaran terkini menyangkut Permainan Bandarq
Michael #9, a lot of reflexive, complicated thinking going on there and I sense we agree more than disagree. I certainly wish that the government and bureaucracy, of any political color, are more sincere in addressing the sufferings of the rural and urban poor. Don’t get me wrong here, there have been many good policies and hard working bureaucrats – and by many international measures, there have been marked improvement in the socio-economic conditions of the Thai people over the years. But clearly much more could be done – and important policies such as land reform and agriculture produce mortgage (which I don’t fully understand yet) seems to be consistently exploited by the politicians.
There is also the unprecedented challenge of becoming an agriculture-based ‘developed’ society – as it is arguably much easier to focus on industrialization on a path to higher incomes and better quality of life (path of the ‘Tiger Economies’). I am not sure if this is even possible. On the other hand, this path of industrialization seem increasingly hard with China (and India) as competition, quickly taking over in becoming the world’s factory.
Would PMThaksin be the man, the only person able to negotiate a future rosy economic path for Thailand? I strongly doubt it as he was prime minister when the world economy was expanding. It seems to be the fate of the Democrats to take the rein during economic crises.
Is PMThaksin sincere with rural poor? That I also strongly doubt as evidences abound that he seemed to be consistently driven by self-interests more than anything else – and arguably more than any politicians before him and since (Mr.Newin is also on this path, I suspect). This did not come as a surprise for me as at the end of day, he is a business tycoon, first and foremost. It actually took some years of training at Palang Dharma Party before he found his political footing…
On the issue of “brainwashed Thais”, we can safely say that both the Reds and Yellows have been pretty much radicalized and brainwashed by their respective elites (led by master manipulators par excellence, PMThaksin and TycoonSonthi). Any politician who can re-create the common, middle space will be able to set society back on a stable path. However, any politician trying to position themselves in the middle could easily end up with enemies on both sides (as the PMAbhisit and the Democrats are quickly finding out). On the other hand, these conflicts will remain as long as PMThaksin is active – and a possible scenario is that, with time, this becomes ‘normalized’ and Thais, of all shades, just gets used to it until PMThaksin retires. I suspect that life will carry on – unless PMThaksin makes a killing in one of his worldwide investment ventures.