I tried to access it via NM’s link on Friday and again Saturday. Firefox says ‘page load error’ and ‘The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.’ I get the same error when I try to access NTN’s home page. I am using True.
I have no problem accessing anything else (except the usual blocked stuff).
It’s now just on 5:30pm and I tried again using Firefox instead of Explorer, via True – same problem – except with Firefox you get that “connection interupted” panel.
If others were able to open the site via True, it sounds like it’s a line problem with True.
I should ring them and walk through the steps, but I feel as there has not been any comment from the site – in response to this topic on NM, who knows if they care?
Or, are they more focused on just being satirical (which by the way they do an excellent job of)?
Perhaps they need to make up their own related headline?
e.g. “Not The Nation Blocked by True for Insulting AF Stars?????”
After all, it seems those of us who use True are the people having problems??? And, AF is a True product.
As that other great “humorist” about all things Thai was fond of saying : You Go Figure…
I had no trouble getting it via True @ shortly after midday. Just tried again. Also OK.
The internet here is a bit erratic at times, which doesn’t help with the paranoia that is a natural outcome of what we know is going on with thousands of websites being blocked. I often get ‘error’ messages, even for sites like Google. I’ve had them for my email also – a very scary thing. I now just tell myself that it’s probably just a technical hitch, like the problem of regurgitating lavatories, that comes with living here, & that’s usually the case.
Not so long ago, it was very clear that a website was blocked, because a page with a big eye & a euphemistic-but-curt little message would come up. But these days they seem to have engineered things so that ‘error’ messages come up, so we don’t know whether it’s a technical problem or a block. This seems to be in line with the current government’s policy of spreading confusion by, for example, publicly stating that they’re going to do something about LM law abuse & then perpetrating even worse abuses than before, & even setting up an organisation of amateur spies that looks set to rival Stasi.
“…so that we can cross to in the real world even if the form of democracy that the People’s Party desired has never existed in Thai society prior.”
Susie, I find your translation in the first part accurate testament to your good handling of Thai. I know you have a very personal agenda against the Thai monarchy, however, please have some respect for KhunNatakorn Wititanon’s original writing in Thai.
There’s a short article in the print edition of the Nation headlined “No patent for Thai jasmine rice’s aroma” where it is said that the Intellectual Property department can’t patent an aroma because it does not arise from innovation. Reports that they are going to contact the National Science and Technology Development Agency to see if such a patent can be registered in any way.
Is this the same alleged patent or something else?
First, my guess is that Maria teaches at Attarkiah Islamia School in the town of Narathiwat. For secular education, that school is probably the best private Islamic school in the region. I don’t think it is at all considered a hot-bed of Patani Malay Muslim nationalist teachings, unlike a place like Thammawitthaya School in Yala town, which is the largest school in the region, I believe, but has also long been suspected by Thai authorities as breeding grounds for nationalist sentiment.
The ICG report doesn’t really seem to offer any groundbreaking information. It does contrast with Duncan McCargo’s arguments in at least one area: While McCargo found that insurgents were coming mostly out of the traditional pondok schools, the ICG report says that most are being drawn from the more modern private Islamic schools such as Thammawitthaya.
There is one very na├пve statement in the report that I would like to criticize. While it may just be a very small part, it demonstrates a limited understanding of society in the 3 provinces. I am talking about one section that discusses the Thai government’s effort to distribute a Thai-language book that demonizes the movement. ICG writes “It is unclear how many Malay Muslims have read the publication since it was published only in Thai and not in local Jawi script” (page 17)
This struck me as a pretty baffling statement. Are readers of this report supposed to think that Malay Muslims would not read it because they can’t read Thai, or because they are proud of their unique Patani Malay Muslim identity and refuse to read it because it is symbolic of the Thai nation-state?
First off, the Malay-speaking Muslims in the 3 provinces are generally much, much more proficient in written Thai than Jawi (which keep in mind is the written form of standard Malay, not the local dialect). Any Muslim who has come out of the private Islamic school system has at least a basic understanding of Jawi, but official Thai is the language of instruction (at least it’s supposed to be, though at times teachers – especially religious teachers – use the local Malay). Jawi is also taught at other Islamic schools, but my understanding is that those people who are most fluent in it have graduated from the private Islamic schools. I’ve been told by a Patani Malay Muslim who is an expert on education that about 50 percent of the Malay-speaking population can read Jawi. The literacy rates are much higher for Thai, especially for anyone who is under the age of 60 or so.
Second, if ICG was somehow suggesting that people wouldn’t read this document because its Thai is symbolic of the Thai nation-state and the Malay Muslims are committed to resisting the state’s imposition, then ICG should both 1) spend more time reading the academic literature based on ethnographic research in the region; 2) spend significantly more time hanging out in different circles of the Malay-speaking Muslim population. If ICG would choose to do either, they would find large sections of the population that are not preoccupied with ethnic preservation, nor bent on resisting the mono-ethnic character of the Thai state.
But ICG didn’t seem to do this. The trend among researchers (whether academics, human rights activists, or reporters) since 2004 has been merely to focus on insurgents and “victims” of either state security forces or the insurgency.
Here may be a good place to address Srithanonchai’s brief comment on Marc Askew. It’s not exactly clear what Srithanonchai was specifically talking about when he said “you would be disappointed” [in reading Askew’s work on the south], but I would venture to guess that it probably stems from Askew’s comments like this one: “The insurgents (if they can be so named) are fighting an Islamic people’s war, notwithstanding the fact that most Malay Muslims in the south are not terribly interested in this cause, though they are all affected” (see http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2007/08/31/nothing-much-new/#more-1452).
We should consider Askew’s assertions. Maybe they are accurate; maybe they aren’t. But the guy has spent more time conducting research in the far south than any other foreigner, so he should be listened to.
Moreover, we should also keep in mind how Askew’s assertions are at odds with the moral schemas guiding researchers’ views on the south on two levels. First, I would say that the most people following the situation in the south are liberally-minded and generally sympathize for ethnic minorities. Because of the tendency to have sympathy for minorities, there may also be a general tendency for most of us to celebrate “resistance” to a centralizing state. We like to see the preservation of cultures; it’s seen as a good thing. And even though we may not enjoy violent revolution, it may hard for us to believe Askew’s comment that “most Malay Muslims in the south are not terribly interested in this cause” because we would like to see a group of people struggling to preserve its identity.
Second, in light of the US “war on terror,” there have been many alarmist portrayals of Islam and social movements made up Muslims. ICG, Duncan McCargo, and so many others have presented arguments that downplay the significance of Islam in the movement in southern Thailand. Specifically, they have said that because the movement in the south is not linked to Al-Queda, Wahhabism, or Salafism, that the Islamic factor should not be given marked priority.
I believe that many people who have done work on the south have a predisposition to downplay the international dimension to the situation. Askew has not done this at all, and in doing so has probably created some enemies.
But the moralism that guides people’s research on the south has really got to be suspended when one is trying to objectively understand 1) dispositions toward support for the armed movement, and toward the preservation of Patani Malay Muslim identity; and 2) the role of Islam in giving rise to armed resistance.
Askew has elsewhere commented that Malay Muslims’ marked concern for ethnic preservation is exaggerated in the literature. This argument is basically no different from the ethnographic work done by anthropologists Saroja Dorairajoo and Michiko Tsuneda.
Having spent more than two years in the region, I have come to believe this as well. I have had friendships with Malay-speaking Muslims who never bring up identity issues, who never talk about concern for autonomy, and who have no qualms with military forces at all. In fact I have met Malay Muslim men who aspire to be policemen or soldiers. Moreover, I don’t know how many times one of the first things I have been asked by a Malay Muslim is whether I like “som-tom,” or if like Thailand, or if I think Thailand is “na yu.”
But because there is this ethno-religious struggle (which is carried out violently by insurgents, and non-violently by intellectuals and academics) being carried out, there is a tendency to assume that “the” Malay Muslims have similar goals – specifically acquiring some form of autonomy and more legitimacy for identity issues.
I am not at all trying to suggest that these issues don’t matter and that they don’t need to be addressed immediately by the Thai government. They do. But the sad truth is that the Muslims who either oppose the violence and/or are indifferent to the identity preservation issues, well, they are basically irrelevant to debates on the south. Their opinions aren’t heard. These people will not be delivering talks on the need for increased autonomy and the Thai state’s long-standing insensitive policies. It is only intellectuals, academics, and politicians who give these messages at seminars and conferences. Meanwhile, human rights activists’ focus on victims of state violence leads them to neglect those who do not hold animosity toward the state.
The Islamic factor is of course far more controversial than dispositions toward identity issues. ICG downplays the role of Islam, as did McCargo in his book. Both said that Wahhabist or Salafist elements are not at work in the movement. This may very well be true, but if one is considering the movement shouldn’t one move beyond the narrow understanding of it being based on the violent insurgent groups alone. I mean, what about the middle class academics and intellectuals who preach peace and non-violence but deliver portrayals “of” the Malay Muslims abiding wish for some form of autonomy and ethnic preservation? I’d have to go back and read his book more thoroughly, but I do believe that McCargo noted that the Prince of Songkla University’s College of Islamic Studies and the Yala Islamic University are influenced by Salafism. And though McCargo did not link people from these institutions to the insurgency at all, academics from these institutions do speak out on the need for the Thai government to address the political and cultural issues – on behalf “of” the Malay Muslims, of course. So, if we develop a broader understanding of this movement, shouldn’t these people be included?
But let’s just say that ICG is spot on in its assertion that the movement shows little influence of Salafism or and does not follow the ideology of Al Queda. Still, I have met several Malay Muslims who have talked about how impressed they are with Osama Bin-Laden. I am not talking about intellectuals or academics; I am talking about somewhat religiously conservative Muslims who seem to be Patani Malay Muslim nationalists, though not a part of the violence. Shouldn’t this kind of information be emphasized in ICG’s report? Moreover, why have I met many young Malay Men who can’t stand the US for its policies in the Middle East and its support for Israel? Why have I met so many Muslims who talk about the importance of the ummah and how Muslims in the world are all brothers?
My belief is that ICG downplays this kind of information because it interferes with liberally-minded individuals’ wish for the situation to be purely a domestic issue. I also think that ICG runs roughshod on the nuances within the Malay-speaking population because if they took greater notice of this it would interfere with their apparent commitment to promote political change and to reduce or get rid of security forces. But if you sit there and write that some folks just aren’t so concerned about these issues, or even that some Muslims support the use of troops, then you are providing information that weakens your argument that political decentralization or autonomy needs to be granted, and that the Thai government must become much more sensitive to Malay Muslim identity. Even though I totally agree that the Thai state does have to become far more sensitive and must make some significant political changes, I do not believe that you can or should ignore data that does not support your argument, and this report seems to do just that.
Hi Nick, (Saturday morning) I just tried it from Thailand via True and I got the “Internet Explorer cannot open this page” page.
It does open ok via a proxy.
As you correctly say, there could be a number of reasons.
Before we all get carried away with the usual paranoia, I suggest some more research is required.
This also happened a couple of months back with sites such as BP and others who use Blogspot – not just Thai political commentary blogs either.
I rang True and they fixed it…that’s a true story!!
Trouble with Not The Nation, is there does not appear to be a “Contact Us” link, so it’s hard to let them know.
I am disappointed that the Thai government does not take integrity issue seriously even with topic that should not be politicized like research and development issue. Agricultural development especially rice productivity owed a great deal to IFPRI of the United States (can Google up this fact). Professor Ammar Siamwala was the person who coordinated the activities between the two governments during the height of the Cold War in the ’70s era. Improving rice productivity was part of the United States assistance on the counter-insurgency program at the time. Its aim was to increase income for farmers in the Northeast region.
I think refusing the fact about the origin of rice productivity development which was assisted by IFPRI of the United States, is bad enough. “Rally around the flag” on issue of rice, against those who used to help Thailand develop its rice productivity, in my opinion, is simply plain wrong.
I would like to share an article relating to the issue discussed here about the signs of Phumipon. I think the mainstream is going in the opposite direction against the signs of Phumipon and it is growing in every regions including Bangkok. Its main message is; the highest power of the country belongs to its people.
Once Today… in relation to reviving the meaning of “the 1932 Coup d’etat”
What is the implicit meaning of the date, 24th June 1932 at this present time? If answering in bare truth, it implies becoming democracy with its complete form. It can be considered as the most important “turning point ” of this country, of which, they (the 1932 Coup d’etat) “dare” to confirm, for the first time, the principle that the highest power of the country belongs to its people. Eventhough their wishes of the 1932 Coup d’etat has never been as yet bear fruit in reality, the 1932 Coup d’etat had struggled to bring us people to cross and come to a reality that the highest power of the country belongs to its people.
I would like to bring in an article from Prachatai News relevant to our discussion here.
р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Хр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕З “р╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕Щр╕Ю” р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕Жр╣Ир╕▓ “р╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤ р╕ер╕┤р╣Йр╕бр╕Чр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕е”
Fri, 2009-06-26 07:01
р╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Ыр╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Нр╕▓р╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Ъ
Translation:
Story about the death of “Enlisted Private Apinop” and the order to kill “Sonthi Limthongkul”
There were many facts of what happened in Thai society of which those facts were the most serious incidents requiring proof to let the public know i.e. the death of King Taksin, and the death of King Rama 8. However, the Thai society has its rights know only “what was told” or “story” about the facts of those incidents. The public has no rights to know “facts that can pass the process of proof” according to academic principle or principle of law. However, even though the story did not inform public about the facts of those story, on the contrary, it clearly confirms the following facts about the Thai society that:
1) Even though Thai society has changed its governance to a democratic system since 1932, the sacred power still maintains its firm absolute control. Any facts about serious incidents that the public should know, if they seem to be related to the sacred power, or seem to be affecting the stability of that sacred power, the public can only know about what was told or the story about those “facts” but not the truth. Such situations were the death of King Taksin, and the death of King Ananda Rama 8.
2) “The Expansion” of this sacred power is the Military. The role of “the expansion power” is to protect the sacred power, and in turn claims the sacred power’s so that the Military itself also has power. As such, no one dares to or every one is afraid to touch, oppose, investigate, or inquire about the transparency and justice on a direct basis. Similarly, facts about serious matter of which the public should know, if it seems to be related to or have an affect on the stability of “the expansion,” the Thai public can only know about what was told or the story about “the facts” similar practice as of the sacred power.
Why nowadays when we seem to believe that democracy, liberty of the mass media, and the advance telecommunication technology than in the past period of the mysterious death of King Taksin, and King Ananda Rama 8, still the public only know about the story of what was told without any proof.
Such as the event of the mysterious death of the enlisted soldier, private Apinop Koeisook from Loei Province, who served in the Army General of the First Regional Regiment,(the most powerful regiment). It happened approximately around the same time when Prime Minister Abhisit was residing at that home to avoid the Red Movement protest. In the end, the public only knew what was told or the story but not the facts.
Also in the event where war weapons were used to shoot Sonthi Limthongkul, in the midst of the the Emergency Decree announcement, of which later it proofed to be the bullet from the 9th Infantry Division. Who had ordered the shooting and who had hired the killing, still continues to be the story, story from the police.
____________
The questions, Da Torpedo asked, were the same as that of what the majority of Thai people had. Being an educated woman with analytical mind, she had the basic human rights to ask logical questions about public matters which would have an impact on her mentally, economically, and politically, don’t you think?
Could others confirm whether or not notthenation.com has fallen foul of the Thai authorities? Based on previous experience I know that this can be tough to pin down.
Judge Prommas said he is impartial. I am laughing out loud for this judge. If he is impartial, why must he closed the trial to the public. The Thais law states that if that trial is against the stability of the state, then the trial will be closed to the public. I would like to know, how can a lady like Darunee has to do anything to shake the stability of the country. This is definately a joke or this trial is being monitored by some elite on the top. This is a damn prejudice trial which the judge receives order to hand down hash punishment for anyone who dare to stand against the dictators.
Let me just that, all the Thai Judges are acting under the Thai king. They will do anything to please the king. The public is not allowed to criticize any verdict. If anyone criticize the verdict, they must go to jail too. That means they can judge any trial as they please or judges by order. As for me, the whole judging system in Thailand need to be boycott. The Thais should throw away their judging system and use jury instead.
“I haven’t read through the paper except to see if McCargo was referenced.” >> You could try to do the same for Marc Askew, who has researched and written about issues relevant to the report. Yet, you would be disappointed…
On the right-hand side of DOPA’s home page, there are a number of pictures symbolizing links. Click the one that says р╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г.
The report provides another dimension that can potentially contribute to the worsening of the situation in the deep South. It made me think of an American-style gun culture developing in the deep south…
Thanks Ralph#28 for beginning to introduce some objectivity into what is so far predominantly sensationalist comments. Let’s discuss CPB’s detailed historic practices and evolution if we can.
We can now be clear that, like millions of Australian homeowners, the CPB is assets, not cash rich (and that is the point I wanted to make – MBAesque inaccurate according to Ralph, so be it). Much of those assets are still gaining below market returns – at least for it’s current assessed values, while some large plot holdings have been leased to be turned into multi-billion baht malls. Many still have ambiguous ownership claims – I dare say the majority of the small plots, which I do not know what proportion of all land assets may fall into this category. Please, anyone who knows more – especially those in Thailand who must know someone living in a CPB plot (must in the hundreds of thousands at least?), please tell us what you know.
It is also worth investigating, comparing CPB with other public and private bodies with massive land bank holdings. The State Railway of Thailand comes to mind, or private corporations like CP or Land&House. Investigate their practices from the economical, social, political – even environmental aspects and see how they perform. Maybe take this into an international study and see what other monarchies and tycoons do with their vast land holdings (well compare their cash and stock holdings too to get a clearer picture)…
For Ralph, I don’t have an MBA so I don’t qualify. I will assume he has one and will do the data mining and analysis for us. (I will also assume he is not one of the MBAs from top American institutions that bequeathed us the ‘Insufficiency Economy’ and the GFC!)
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Aturan Permainan DominoQQ buat Pemula
Just what is “farang rice”? Basmati, patna, japonica? Chinese sticky rice? Bhutan red? Are they all “farangs”?
Or are Thais replacing their own Khao neaw with Italian-farang arborio in mango-and-sticky-rice?
Or maybe they are just taking to “Unken Ben’s” from the US.
Well, whatever, eat any of those and you won’t be Thai anymore. Neh nawn. Doubly so for Kentucky.
Actually, didn’t the king in 1998 tell everyone to eat unpolished red/brown rice and beans?
If you’re a fan…
I tried to access it via NM’s link on Friday and again Saturday. Firefox says ‘page load error’ and ‘The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.’ I get the same error when I try to access NTN’s home page. I am using True.
I have no problem accessing anything else (except the usual blocked stuff).
I think it’s blocked, either by MICT or True.
If you’re a fan…
It’s now just on 5:30pm and I tried again using Firefox instead of Explorer, via True – same problem – except with Firefox you get that “connection interupted” panel.
If others were able to open the site via True, it sounds like it’s a line problem with True.
I should ring them and walk through the steps, but I feel as there has not been any comment from the site – in response to this topic on NM, who knows if they care?
Or, are they more focused on just being satirical (which by the way they do an excellent job of)?
Perhaps they need to make up their own related headline?
e.g. “Not The Nation Blocked by True for Insulting AF Stars?????”
After all, it seems those of us who use True are the people having problems??? And, AF is a True product.
As that other great “humorist” about all things Thai was fond of saying : You Go Figure…
If you’re a fan…
I had no trouble getting it via True @ shortly after midday. Just tried again. Also OK.
The internet here is a bit erratic at times, which doesn’t help with the paranoia that is a natural outcome of what we know is going on with thousands of websites being blocked. I often get ‘error’ messages, even for sites like Google. I’ve had them for my email also – a very scary thing. I now just tell myself that it’s probably just a technical hitch, like the problem of regurgitating lavatories, that comes with living here, & that’s usually the case.
Not so long ago, it was very clear that a website was blocked, because a page with a big eye & a euphemistic-but-curt little message would come up. But these days they seem to have engineered things so that ‘error’ messages come up, so we don’t know whether it’s a technical problem or a block. This seems to be in line with the current government’s policy of spreading confusion by, for example, publicly stating that they’re going to do something about LM law abuse & then perpetrating even worse abuses than before, & even setting up an organisation of amateur spies that looks set to rival Stasi.
Signs of the Thai state
Correction to Susie Wong’s #26 translation, last sentence:
“…р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕Эр╣Ир╕▓р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕бр╣Др╕Ыр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Вр╕ер╕Бр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╣Бр╕Ър╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕йр╕Ор╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕Щр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Др╕вр╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕вр╕Бр╣Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡”
should translate as:
“…so that we can cross to in the real world even if the form of democracy that the People’s Party desired has never existed in Thai society prior.”
Susie, I find your translation in the first part accurate testament to your good handling of Thai. I know you have a very personal agenda against the Thai monarchy, however, please have some respect for KhunNatakorn Wititanon’s original writing in Thai.
Aturan Permainan DominoQQ buat Pemula
There’s a short article in the print edition of the Nation headlined “No patent for Thai jasmine rice’s aroma” where it is said that the Intellectual Property department can’t patent an aroma because it does not arise from innovation. Reports that they are going to contact the National Science and Technology Development Agency to see if such a patent can be registered in any way.
Is this the same alleged patent or something else?
If you’re a fan…
There’s no warning from the IT ministry, but the site is definitely not operational.
The message on the page says: connection interrupted – the connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
shame
If you’re a fan…
р╣НYou got to be shitting me, the MICT actually block a joke website?
Can anyone confirm this?
ICG on Thailand’s deep south
First, my guess is that Maria teaches at Attarkiah Islamia School in the town of Narathiwat. For secular education, that school is probably the best private Islamic school in the region. I don’t think it is at all considered a hot-bed of Patani Malay Muslim nationalist teachings, unlike a place like Thammawitthaya School in Yala town, which is the largest school in the region, I believe, but has also long been suspected by Thai authorities as breeding grounds for nationalist sentiment.
The ICG report doesn’t really seem to offer any groundbreaking information. It does contrast with Duncan McCargo’s arguments in at least one area: While McCargo found that insurgents were coming mostly out of the traditional pondok schools, the ICG report says that most are being drawn from the more modern private Islamic schools such as Thammawitthaya.
There is one very na├пve statement in the report that I would like to criticize. While it may just be a very small part, it demonstrates a limited understanding of society in the 3 provinces. I am talking about one section that discusses the Thai government’s effort to distribute a Thai-language book that demonizes the movement. ICG writes “It is unclear how many Malay Muslims have read the publication since it was published only in Thai and not in local Jawi script” (page 17)
This struck me as a pretty baffling statement. Are readers of this report supposed to think that Malay Muslims would not read it because they can’t read Thai, or because they are proud of their unique Patani Malay Muslim identity and refuse to read it because it is symbolic of the Thai nation-state?
First off, the Malay-speaking Muslims in the 3 provinces are generally much, much more proficient in written Thai than Jawi (which keep in mind is the written form of standard Malay, not the local dialect). Any Muslim who has come out of the private Islamic school system has at least a basic understanding of Jawi, but official Thai is the language of instruction (at least it’s supposed to be, though at times teachers – especially religious teachers – use the local Malay). Jawi is also taught at other Islamic schools, but my understanding is that those people who are most fluent in it have graduated from the private Islamic schools. I’ve been told by a Patani Malay Muslim who is an expert on education that about 50 percent of the Malay-speaking population can read Jawi. The literacy rates are much higher for Thai, especially for anyone who is under the age of 60 or so.
Second, if ICG was somehow suggesting that people wouldn’t read this document because its Thai is symbolic of the Thai nation-state and the Malay Muslims are committed to resisting the state’s imposition, then ICG should both 1) spend more time reading the academic literature based on ethnographic research in the region; 2) spend significantly more time hanging out in different circles of the Malay-speaking Muslim population. If ICG would choose to do either, they would find large sections of the population that are not preoccupied with ethnic preservation, nor bent on resisting the mono-ethnic character of the Thai state.
But ICG didn’t seem to do this. The trend among researchers (whether academics, human rights activists, or reporters) since 2004 has been merely to focus on insurgents and “victims” of either state security forces or the insurgency.
Here may be a good place to address Srithanonchai’s brief comment on Marc Askew. It’s not exactly clear what Srithanonchai was specifically talking about when he said “you would be disappointed” [in reading Askew’s work on the south], but I would venture to guess that it probably stems from Askew’s comments like this one: “The insurgents (if they can be so named) are fighting an Islamic people’s war, notwithstanding the fact that most Malay Muslims in the south are not terribly interested in this cause, though they are all affected” (see http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2007/08/31/nothing-much-new/#more-1452).
We should consider Askew’s assertions. Maybe they are accurate; maybe they aren’t. But the guy has spent more time conducting research in the far south than any other foreigner, so he should be listened to.
Moreover, we should also keep in mind how Askew’s assertions are at odds with the moral schemas guiding researchers’ views on the south on two levels. First, I would say that the most people following the situation in the south are liberally-minded and generally sympathize for ethnic minorities. Because of the tendency to have sympathy for minorities, there may also be a general tendency for most of us to celebrate “resistance” to a centralizing state. We like to see the preservation of cultures; it’s seen as a good thing. And even though we may not enjoy violent revolution, it may hard for us to believe Askew’s comment that “most Malay Muslims in the south are not terribly interested in this cause” because we would like to see a group of people struggling to preserve its identity.
Second, in light of the US “war on terror,” there have been many alarmist portrayals of Islam and social movements made up Muslims. ICG, Duncan McCargo, and so many others have presented arguments that downplay the significance of Islam in the movement in southern Thailand. Specifically, they have said that because the movement in the south is not linked to Al-Queda, Wahhabism, or Salafism, that the Islamic factor should not be given marked priority.
I believe that many people who have done work on the south have a predisposition to downplay the international dimension to the situation. Askew has not done this at all, and in doing so has probably created some enemies.
But the moralism that guides people’s research on the south has really got to be suspended when one is trying to objectively understand 1) dispositions toward support for the armed movement, and toward the preservation of Patani Malay Muslim identity; and 2) the role of Islam in giving rise to armed resistance.
Askew has elsewhere commented that Malay Muslims’ marked concern for ethnic preservation is exaggerated in the literature. This argument is basically no different from the ethnographic work done by anthropologists Saroja Dorairajoo and Michiko Tsuneda.
Having spent more than two years in the region, I have come to believe this as well. I have had friendships with Malay-speaking Muslims who never bring up identity issues, who never talk about concern for autonomy, and who have no qualms with military forces at all. In fact I have met Malay Muslim men who aspire to be policemen or soldiers. Moreover, I don’t know how many times one of the first things I have been asked by a Malay Muslim is whether I like “som-tom,” or if like Thailand, or if I think Thailand is “na yu.”
But because there is this ethno-religious struggle (which is carried out violently by insurgents, and non-violently by intellectuals and academics) being carried out, there is a tendency to assume that “the” Malay Muslims have similar goals – specifically acquiring some form of autonomy and more legitimacy for identity issues.
I am not at all trying to suggest that these issues don’t matter and that they don’t need to be addressed immediately by the Thai government. They do. But the sad truth is that the Muslims who either oppose the violence and/or are indifferent to the identity preservation issues, well, they are basically irrelevant to debates on the south. Their opinions aren’t heard. These people will not be delivering talks on the need for increased autonomy and the Thai state’s long-standing insensitive policies. It is only intellectuals, academics, and politicians who give these messages at seminars and conferences. Meanwhile, human rights activists’ focus on victims of state violence leads them to neglect those who do not hold animosity toward the state.
The Islamic factor is of course far more controversial than dispositions toward identity issues. ICG downplays the role of Islam, as did McCargo in his book. Both said that Wahhabist or Salafist elements are not at work in the movement. This may very well be true, but if one is considering the movement shouldn’t one move beyond the narrow understanding of it being based on the violent insurgent groups alone. I mean, what about the middle class academics and intellectuals who preach peace and non-violence but deliver portrayals “of” the Malay Muslims abiding wish for some form of autonomy and ethnic preservation? I’d have to go back and read his book more thoroughly, but I do believe that McCargo noted that the Prince of Songkla University’s College of Islamic Studies and the Yala Islamic University are influenced by Salafism. And though McCargo did not link people from these institutions to the insurgency at all, academics from these institutions do speak out on the need for the Thai government to address the political and cultural issues – on behalf “of” the Malay Muslims, of course. So, if we develop a broader understanding of this movement, shouldn’t these people be included?
But let’s just say that ICG is spot on in its assertion that the movement shows little influence of Salafism or and does not follow the ideology of Al Queda. Still, I have met several Malay Muslims who have talked about how impressed they are with Osama Bin-Laden. I am not talking about intellectuals or academics; I am talking about somewhat religiously conservative Muslims who seem to be Patani Malay Muslim nationalists, though not a part of the violence. Shouldn’t this kind of information be emphasized in ICG’s report? Moreover, why have I met many young Malay Men who can’t stand the US for its policies in the Middle East and its support for Israel? Why have I met so many Muslims who talk about the importance of the ummah and how Muslims in the world are all brothers?
My belief is that ICG downplays this kind of information because it interferes with liberally-minded individuals’ wish for the situation to be purely a domestic issue. I also think that ICG runs roughshod on the nuances within the Malay-speaking population because if they took greater notice of this it would interfere with their apparent commitment to promote political change and to reduce or get rid of security forces. But if you sit there and write that some folks just aren’t so concerned about these issues, or even that some Muslims support the use of troops, then you are providing information that weakens your argument that political decentralization or autonomy needs to be granted, and that the Thai government must become much more sensitive to Malay Muslim identity. Even though I totally agree that the Thai state does have to become far more sensitive and must make some significant political changes, I do not believe that you can or should ignore data that does not support your argument, and this report seems to do just that.
If you’re a fan…
Hi Nick, (Saturday morning) I just tried it from Thailand via True and I got the “Internet Explorer cannot open this page” page.
It does open ok via a proxy.
As you correctly say, there could be a number of reasons.
Before we all get carried away with the usual paranoia, I suggest some more research is required.
This also happened a couple of months back with sites such as BP and others who use Blogspot – not just Thai political commentary blogs either.
I rang True and they fixed it…that’s a true story!!
Trouble with Not The Nation, is there does not appear to be a “Contact Us” link, so it’s hard to let them know.
Aturan Permainan DominoQQ buat Pemula
I am disappointed that the Thai government does not take integrity issue seriously even with topic that should not be politicized like research and development issue. Agricultural development especially rice productivity owed a great deal to IFPRI of the United States (can Google up this fact). Professor Ammar Siamwala was the person who coordinated the activities between the two governments during the height of the Cold War in the ’70s era. Improving rice productivity was part of the United States assistance on the counter-insurgency program at the time. Its aim was to increase income for farmers in the Northeast region.
I think refusing the fact about the origin of rice productivity development which was assisted by IFPRI of the United States, is bad enough. “Rally around the flag” on issue of rice, against those who used to help Thailand develop its rice productivity, in my opinion, is simply plain wrong.
Signs of the Thai state
I would like to share an article relating to the issue discussed here about the signs of Phumipon. I think the mainstream is going in the opposite direction against the signs of Phumipon and it is growing in every regions including Bangkok. Its main message is; the highest power of the country belongs to its people.
Here’s the article from Prachatai Webboard.
р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й…р╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Яр╕╖р╣Йр╕Щр╕Др╕╖р╕Щр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕З “р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕Пр╕┤р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤ 2475”
Tue, 2009-06-23 01:42
р╕Ур╕▒р╕Рр╕Бр╕г р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕┤р╕Хр╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕Чр╣М
р╕Щр╕▒р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕З 24 р╕бр╕┤.р╕в. 2475 р╕У р╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕нр╕░р╣Др╕г? р╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕Хр╕нр╕Ър╣Бр╕Ър╕Ър╕Бр╕│р╕Ыр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕Чр╕╕р╕Ър╕Фр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╣Зр╕Др╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Цр╕╢р╕З р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕кр╕бр╕Ър╕╣р╕гр╕Ур╣М р╕Вр╕Ур╕░р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╕Щр╕▒р╕вр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Бр╣Зр╕Цр╕╖р╕нр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щ “р╕Ир╕╕р╕Фр╣Ар╕Ыр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕Щ” (Turning Point) р╕кр╕│р╕Др╕▒р╕Нр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕кр╕│р╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Вр╕▓ ‘р╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕▓’ р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕вр╕╖р╕Щр╕вр╕▒р╕Щр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▓р╕йр╕Ор╕гр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕гр╕Б р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕Эр╣Ир╕▓р╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕бр╣Др╕Ыр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Вр╕ер╕Бр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╣Бр╕Ър╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕йр╕Ор╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕Щр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Др╕вр╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╣Ар╕ер╕вр╕Бр╣Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡
Translation:
Once Today… in relation to reviving the meaning of “the 1932 Coup d’etat”
What is the implicit meaning of the date, 24th June 1932 at this present time? If answering in bare truth, it implies becoming democracy with its complete form. It can be considered as the most important “turning point ” of this country, of which, they (the 1932 Coup d’etat) “dare” to confirm, for the first time, the principle that the highest power of the country belongs to its people. Eventhough their wishes of the 1932 Coup d’etat has never been as yet bear fruit in reality, the 1932 Coup d’etat had struggled to bring us people to cross and come to a reality that the highest power of the country belongs to its people.
The injustice of a closed trial
I would like to bring in an article from Prachatai News relevant to our discussion here.
р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Хр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕З “р╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕Щр╕Ю” р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕Жр╣Ир╕▓ “р╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤ р╕ер╕┤р╣Йр╕бр╕Чр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕е”
Fri, 2009-06-26 07:01
р╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Ыр╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Нр╕▓р╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Ъ
р╕бр╕╡р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕вр╣Ж р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Лр╕╡р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕┤р╕кр╕╣р╕Ир╕Щр╣М р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щ р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕зр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Хр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕Бр╕кр╕┤р╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡р╕кр╕зр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Хр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕ер╕Чр╕╡р╣И 8 р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Бр╣Зр╕бр╕╡р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕З “р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕З р╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓” р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕н “р╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕в” р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Ар╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Й “р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ьр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕┤р╕кр╕╣р╕Ир╕Щр╣М” р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Цр╕╣р╕Бр╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕зр╕┤р╕Кр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ж
р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕б р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Чр╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕И р╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕╣р╕Фр╕Цр╕╢р╕З р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕вр╕╖р╕Щр╕вр╕▒р╕Щр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╣Др╕Ыр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Ир╕░р╕Ир╕░р╕Кр╕▒р╕Фр╕Ир╕Щ р╕вр╕┤р╣Ир╕З р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щ.-
1. р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Ыр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕нр╕Ър╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣И 24 р╕бр╕┤р╕Цр╕╕р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Щ 2475 р╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╣Бр╕Ър╕Ър╕кр╕бр╕Ър╕╣р╕гр╕Ур╕▓р╕Нр╕▓р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕вр╣Мр╕Фр╕│р╕гр╕Зр╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕З р╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕З р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Лр╕╡р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Жр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Ир╕│р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕З р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕Ър╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ир╕░р╕бр╕╡р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ (р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щ р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡р╕кр╕зр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Хр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕Бр╕кр╕┤р╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░ р╕г.8 р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Хр╣Йр╕Щ)
2. р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕бр╕╡ “р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щ р╕Вр╕вр╕▓р╕в” р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣М р╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕▒р╕Ю р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Вр╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Ър╕Чр╕Ър╕▓р╕Чр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Ыр╕Бр╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕нр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕нр╕┤р╕Зр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Чр╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Вр╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╣Зр╕бр╕╡р╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╕Чр╕╡р╣И р╣Гр╕Др╕гр╣Жр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╣Бр╕Хр╕░р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕З р╕Др╕▒р╕Фр╕Зр╣Йр╕▓р╕З р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕Хр╕гр╕зр╕Ир╕кр╕нр╕Ъ р╕Чр╕зр╕Зр╕Цр╕▓р╕б р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Вр╕Ыр╕гр╣Ир╕Зр╣Гр╕к р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╣Др╕Ыр╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╕бр╕▓ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Лр╕╡р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Жр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Й (р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╕вр╕Кр╕╡р╕зр╕┤р╕Хр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕г р╕пр╕ер╕п) р╕Цр╣Йр╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕Ър╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Вр╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕И р╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ир╕░р╕бр╕╡р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Ар╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ
р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Хр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕Щр╕Ю р╣Ар╕Др╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕кр╕╕р╕В р╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╕Ур╕Ср╣Мр╕Кр╕▓р╕зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Фр╣Ар╕ер╕в р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╣Гр╕Щр╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Юр╕▒р╕Бр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╣Бр╕бр╣Ир╕Чр╕▒р╕Юр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕Чр╕╡р╣И 1 р╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╕вр╕Кр╕╡р╕зр╕┤р╕Хр╕ер╕Зр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕Зр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕Зр╕│р╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓ (р╣Др╕ер╣Ир╣Ар╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ъ) р╕Чр╕╡р╣И р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕пр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣М р╣Ар╕зр╕Кр╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕╡р╕зр╕░ р╣Др╕Ыр╕нр╕▓р╕ир╕▒р╕вр╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Юр╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕лр╕ер╕Ър╕бр╕зр╕ер╕Кр╕Щр╣Ар╕кр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╣Бр╕Фр╕З р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Чр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Бр╣Зр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕зр╣Ир╕▓
р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Чр╕│р╣Др╕бр╣Гр╕Щр╕вр╕╕р╕Др╕Ыр╕▒р╕Ир╕Ир╕╕р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕Фр╕╣р╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕Ир╕░ р╣Ар╕Кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕в р╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕╡р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕н р╣Ар╕Чр╕Др╣Вр╕Щр╣Вр╕ер╕вр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╣Йр╕▓р╕зр╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕вр╕╕р╕Др╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕вр╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╕зр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕бр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕зр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕Ир╕╢р╕Зр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕Зр╕бр╕╡р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╣Бр╕Др╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Яр╕▒р╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕│ р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕┤р╕кр╕╣р╕Ир╕Щр╣Мр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щ р╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡р╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Др╕╖р╕нр╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕нр╕▓р╕зр╕╕р╕Ш р╕кр╕Зр╕Др╕гр╕▓р╕бр╕вр╕┤р╕З р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤ р╕ер╕┤р╣Йр╕бр╕Чр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕е р╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕ир╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Йр╕╕р╕Бр╣Ар╕Йр╕┤р╕Щ р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕бр╕▓р╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕┤р╕кр╕╣р╕Ир╕Щр╣Мр╕Чр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕╕р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕вр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕кр╕╕р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕г р╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 9 р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Гр╕Др╕гр╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕вр╕┤р╕Зр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Жр╣Ир╕▓ р╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╣Др╕Ы р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щ р╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Хр╕│р╕гр╕зр╕И
Translation:
Story about the death of “Enlisted Private Apinop” and the order to kill “Sonthi Limthongkul”
There were many facts of what happened in Thai society of which those facts were the most serious incidents requiring proof to let the public know i.e. the death of King Taksin, and the death of King Rama 8. However, the Thai society has its rights know only “what was told” or “story” about the facts of those incidents. The public has no rights to know “facts that can pass the process of proof” according to academic principle or principle of law. However, even though the story did not inform public about the facts of those story, on the contrary, it clearly confirms the following facts about the Thai society that:
1) Even though Thai society has changed its governance to a democratic system since 1932, the sacred power still maintains its firm absolute control. Any facts about serious incidents that the public should know, if they seem to be related to the sacred power, or seem to be affecting the stability of that sacred power, the public can only know about what was told or the story about those “facts” but not the truth. Such situations were the death of King Taksin, and the death of King Ananda Rama 8.
2) “The Expansion” of this sacred power is the Military. The role of “the expansion power” is to protect the sacred power, and in turn claims the sacred power’s so that the Military itself also has power. As such, no one dares to or every one is afraid to touch, oppose, investigate, or inquire about the transparency and justice on a direct basis. Similarly, facts about serious matter of which the public should know, if it seems to be related to or have an affect on the stability of “the expansion,” the Thai public can only know about what was told or the story about “the facts” similar practice as of the sacred power.
Why nowadays when we seem to believe that democracy, liberty of the mass media, and the advance telecommunication technology than in the past period of the mysterious death of King Taksin, and King Ananda Rama 8, still the public only know about the story of what was told without any proof.
Such as the event of the mysterious death of the enlisted soldier, private Apinop Koeisook from Loei Province, who served in the Army General of the First Regional Regiment,(the most powerful regiment). It happened approximately around the same time when Prime Minister Abhisit was residing at that home to avoid the Red Movement protest. In the end, the public only knew what was told or the story but not the facts.
Also in the event where war weapons were used to shoot Sonthi Limthongkul, in the midst of the the Emergency Decree announcement, of which later it proofed to be the bullet from the 9th Infantry Division. Who had ordered the shooting and who had hired the killing, still continues to be the story, story from the police.
____________
The questions, Da Torpedo asked, were the same as that of what the majority of Thai people had. Being an educated woman with analytical mind, she had the basic human rights to ask logical questions about public matters which would have an impact on her mentally, economically, and politically, don’t you think?
If you’re a fan…
Thanks Douglas,
Could others confirm whether or not notthenation.com has fallen foul of the Thai authorities? Based on previous experience I know that this can be tough to pin down.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
The injustice of a closed trial
Judge Prommas said he is impartial. I am laughing out loud for this judge. If he is impartial, why must he closed the trial to the public. The Thais law states that if that trial is against the stability of the state, then the trial will be closed to the public. I would like to know, how can a lady like Darunee has to do anything to shake the stability of the country. This is definately a joke or this trial is being monitored by some elite on the top. This is a damn prejudice trial which the judge receives order to hand down hash punishment for anyone who dare to stand against the dictators.
Let me just that, all the Thai Judges are acting under the Thai king. They will do anything to please the king. The public is not allowed to criticize any verdict. If anyone criticize the verdict, they must go to jail too. That means they can judge any trial as they please or judges by order. As for me, the whole judging system in Thailand need to be boycott. The Thais should throw away their judging system and use jury instead.
If you’re a fan…
Web site is now blocked in Thailand.
ICG on Thailand’s deep south
“I haven’t read through the paper except to see if McCargo was referenced.” >> You could try to do the same for Marc Askew, who has researched and written about issues relevant to the report. Yet, you would be disappointed…
Signs of the Thai state
Ralph:
On the right-hand side of DOPA’s home page, there are a number of pictures symbolizing links. Click the one that says р╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г.
ICG on Thailand’s deep south
Nonviolence International Southeast Asia also released a report last month:
“Rule by the Gun: Armed Civilians and Firearms Proliferation in Southern Thailand”
Authored by Diana Sarosi and Janjira Sombutpoonsiri
The report is available online:
http://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/seasia/
The report provides another dimension that can potentially contribute to the worsening of the situation in the deep South. It made me think of an American-style gun culture developing in the deep south…
King Bhumibol’s billions
Thanks Ralph#28 for beginning to introduce some objectivity into what is so far predominantly sensationalist comments. Let’s discuss CPB’s detailed historic practices and evolution if we can.
We can now be clear that, like millions of Australian homeowners, the CPB is assets, not cash rich (and that is the point I wanted to make – MBAesque inaccurate according to Ralph, so be it). Much of those assets are still gaining below market returns – at least for it’s current assessed values, while some large plot holdings have been leased to be turned into multi-billion baht malls. Many still have ambiguous ownership claims – I dare say the majority of the small plots, which I do not know what proportion of all land assets may fall into this category. Please, anyone who knows more – especially those in Thailand who must know someone living in a CPB plot (must in the hundreds of thousands at least?), please tell us what you know.
It is also worth investigating, comparing CPB with other public and private bodies with massive land bank holdings. The State Railway of Thailand comes to mind, or private corporations like CP or Land&House. Investigate their practices from the economical, social, political – even environmental aspects and see how they perform. Maybe take this into an international study and see what other monarchies and tycoons do with their vast land holdings (well compare their cash and stock holdings too to get a clearer picture)…
For Ralph, I don’t have an MBA so I don’t qualify. I will assume he has one and will do the data mining and analysis for us. (I will also assume he is not one of the MBAs from top American institutions that bequeathed us the ‘Insufficiency Economy’ and the GFC!)