@michael #50
about Suwicha. that is good news.
we all hope, that he will be pardoned asap
without further delay.
we hope he can soon return to his
wife, children, brothers & sisters
which have so dearly missed him….
calling me mavyyboy, na… i’m just 46 of age. maybe i left fever of youth behind. but for sure na… i’m aware of the bounds of my petty individual ignorance. a lot of my friends are in their 60’s, 70’s, 80’s — & i’m glad i was allowed to appreciate their “insight” na.
i said it before, i don’t want to argue. ppl get very excited as if they’d be personally involved to make some point.
Antipadshit said, “in fact, in Thailand there are only 2 colors which matter: khaki (the military) and gray ( as in the famous saying “gray cardinals” – the elite, judiciary and whoever else power brokers, rich chaps) – only these 2 colors have REAL and strong power and influence. ”
Let me again remind you that between 1992 to 2006, the 2 colors you refer to lost a lot of their ‘power’, only to be regained once key ‘liberalists’ (PAD leaders) aligned themselves with a self-serving media magnate (Sonthi) in an attempt to oust Thaksin. That these “liberalists” sided with the real elite allowed the military out of the barracks to enact in a power grab resulting in the see-saw of power games we have seen till today.
Even today, with almost explicit “invisible” backing and a ‘successful’ putsch against Thaksin’s Red Shirts, the current government is hanging on only by a thread.
Anyone can see that by entering politics with weird or almost nonsensical statements like “We only wish to make politics clean, etc.” show that the PAD leadership is at odds and a little bit dazed right now.
Like a torn person, the PAD can no longer decide who is their worst enemy, the ‘untouchable’ caste who has aligned themselves with the Devil Thaksin, or the ‘elite’ class who used them.
I argue is crazy to discard the PAD. The PAD obviously don’t want to leave yet; but when they do (and they will soon if things remain stagnant or if a very particular charismatic person passes from the scene), and the PAD align themselves with certain aspects of the Red Shirt (less Jakraphob, Truth Today, and Thaksin), you will the formation of a very real and extremely powerful force that will have the khaki shirts and the grey shirts quaking in their boots and wetting themselves.
I do not succumb to your ridiculously slippery slope argument stating that the PAD are stuck in a lose-lose that Thailand will either fall to a popular uprising from the Northeast or turn into a facist state. No one will financially support the first, and the image-concious elite will have too much trouble in the Western world justifying the second. For all their complaints about the western world, the elite love travelling and showing off their ‘virtues’ to the foreigners who ‘don’t understand’ Thailand. Shades of facism will be too uncomfortable and there are a lot of Royal-Liberalists who will not give their “independent” backing of this kind of state of affairs.
There is one difference I would like to make though. The Red Shirts can live without the PAD, and perhaps even achieve their long-term goals without the PAD. Though, a joining of PAD and Red alliance would be game-changing.
There are no permanent enemies in Thai politics, so it will be interesting how things go.
Again, I agree with you that the PAD were only successful because of the backing from behind, without which the PAD would probably have been just another footnote in history. But the PAD also provide the only fathomable legitimacy (as of now) for the invisible people to keep in control. Blue and white shirts have not caught on and probably won’t either. There is no obvious bottom-up part in that organization that the PAD achieved.
So again I conclude, for the elite to remain powerful, they do need the PAD more than the PAD need them.
The PAD can always (and are) rebranding themselves as a group who will remain clean and fight all dirty politics, as such, they will try their best to remain ‘clean’. If pushed too far, I am sure that the PAD will go back to the battle of 1992 as their rallying cry.
Not sure where Schumacher comes in here on this thread, but I said: “I actually think that SE can be claimed as something that is uniquely Thai. Sure there are statements elsewhere about sustainability, but SE is a more politically and ideologically driven set of ideas.” So I am not necessarily claiming originality about the ideas themselves, but the way they are put together into a package.
Schumacher actually had a lot more on labour in his approach to Buddhist economics and this king wouldn’t do that. The working class scare him.
I respectfully request on behalf of all the fans of this great composer to express about their band’s ex-lead guitarist[Bone Bon]. Where has he gone? When did he join the band?
It’s obviously not about Thaksin. He’s not a “sensitive” subject.
BP is more cautious than any other blogger when it comes to royals.
The post is titled “health and rumors.” The king is 82. Succession has been the elephant in the room for everything that’s happened in Thailand for 20 years.
So it’s almost certainly a rumor that the king is ill. From my count this is the 254th version of the rumor since 1999. Everyone hears it from a “reliable source.” I’ll credit BP with a higher standard than most, but still.
The SET is up today. If the king were really sick, powerful people with better sources than BP would be selling.
(Er, unless they all sold a year ago, which would explain a lot….)
well, I am not spending so much time on them lately as I used to. just a litle bit.
as for name change …. ha, I know – you’re trying to catch me. 🙂
name still has to remain as a reminder and as an encouragement to create awareness – coz their ideological propaganda is too fallaciously poisonous and rutheless and therefore still needs to be exposed. (if it wasn’t – there won’t be the whole this discussion here and some people claiming that PAD has got some credits for something which is too obviously and evidently belongs to others).
besides, they are perhaps the main if not the only comparatively open target to aim at – apart from Abhisit and Dems may be. “open” in the sense that they are “in the open” (not that they are “open minded” or liberal 🙂 ), on the surface, while others (army, judiciary, elite, etc.) are more like concealed and therefore it is more difficult to critisize them, or often impossible (for the lack of exposure or some taboos).
naturally being on the surface or acting as the cover – they get all the fire, being on the surface or acting as the cover, which is precisely the whole design of their puppeteers, I guess.
so, they can’t complain about it. hahaha
but anyway, thanks for reminding me – I was thinking the same more or less in past few days (like “wasting my time”).
regarding “Who warned them” – well, that I guess you should ask Nation newspaper (or MCOT ?), who as usually do not bother much to provide sources for reference. I merely tried to quote by memory what I’ve read in that article.
Regarding international media attention on the Yettaw incident/Su Kyi trial, a recent commentary by the Karen Human Rights Group (KHRG) is relevant. And coming as it did last week, before the recent exodus of over 3,000 Karen refugees to Thailand over the past few days, the commentary’s argument seems apt.
“Thailand and China are facing a similar dilemma dealing with Burma emanating from their dependency on natural gas and resources imports and long shared common borders. China and Burma have a 2,192km border while the Thai-Burma border stretches over 2,004 km.They have been exposed to a myriad of problems, including illegal migrant workers, drugs and human trafficking. In addition, various armed minority groups are also active along the border.
In the past Burma’s internal situation was a taboo in Thai-China relations. Occasionally, they took up the issue and agreed to disagree. During 2001-2006, however, Thailand’s position on Burma was akin to China’s – do not rock the boat. Both nations defended Burma regionally and internationally urging the international community to allow Burma to settle its own problems. They no longer walk on the Burmese side…
Truth be told, the reason Burma was admitted to Asean on a fast-track in 1997 was mainly due to the Asean senior officials’ decision in January 1995 to check China’s advance southward to the mainland Southeast Asia. Embracing Burma quickly was one measure to halt Beijing’s influence by enabling the regime to be part of the regional community….
Soon, China will show its true colour.”
well, of course it is Kavi’s own opinion and he is well known for his such “opinions”. however the issue is pretty obvious – surely both Thailand and China are involved in Burma and rival for influence there.
I’m starting a rumour: Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin has had gender reassignment & is currently in Bangkok, posing as the wife of Viktor Bout, the Russian gaolbird alleged to be a drug & arms dealer. Look at the photo on the front page of Bangkok Post website Sunday edition. If it’s gone, there’s a pretty revealing photo at the interview site @ http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/18067/viktor-bout-wife-breaks-her-silence
Fiendishly clever of him, say I!
well, BP has certainly stirred up quite a huge internet traffic by this clue – so many people are doing extensive googling and search now for “15 June” ! LOL 😀
there was some article on AS titled “Rumor nation” around that time in 2007. although it was not dated June 15th, it does mention:
…widespread speculation in the capital over the past few weeks …
so, phrase “past few weeks” somewhat corresponds to the date June 15 2007. although in that article it was mentioned that mostly these rumors are in some on-line sources, not in official media. therefore I guess it would be difficult to find them now.
although there was some other article by Marwaan (IPS/ GIN) on June 15 2007, which is now available on several news archives only through subscription – so, I couldn’t read more than its teaser part, which mentions only Thaksin and therefore I doubt it is related to the matter mentioned by BP. perhaps someone who has an access to the full article could try check and see if anything else is mentioned in it.
there were also some other events dated June 15th – as some anti-junta rally at Sanam Luang that day in 2007. but it is certainly wasn’t so big event to deserve such amount of rumors and discussions.
A strange cocktail here, a poison Twix bar, a geriatric lobbyist and a dash of LM. It looks like reporters are hard pushed to find a decent story. As for the Afghan I heard that he has left Phuket and gone to Vietnam where he wont find any monarchy to worry about.
Good Riddance!
Never fancied the FCCT though always seemed like a bunch of leftists and NGOs, I would never tarnish my reputation by setting foot inside.
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$ufficiency economy
Not sure where Schumacher comes in here on this thread
Not on this particular thread, but the not original/borrowed line has been raised in other threads on SE initiated by AW over the last 2 1/2 years.
Rumours, rumours
WLH and Ralph
I think it is about another person, the next one in line –
who has not been seen lately in news at all.
Suwicha Thakor on his life in prison
@michael #50
about Suwicha. that is good news.
we all hope, that he will be pardoned asap
without further delay.
we hope he can soon return to his
wife, children, brothers & sisters
which have so dearly missed him….
$ufficiency economy
@ rk, c.15
“Schumacher actually had a lot more on labour in his approach to Buddhist economics and this king wouldn’t do that. The working class scare him.”
thanks for update. i didn’t know about schuhmachers relation to what you call “buddhist economics” [i guess it’s not related to SE 555].
i also didn’t know you’re able to share mind with king of thailand to know that “the working class scare him”
thank you for bringing light while i’m lost in darkness of ignorance
$ufficiency economy
@ Srithanonchai , c.13:
calling me mavyyboy, na… i’m just 46 of age. maybe i left fever of youth behind. but for sure na… i’m aware of the bounds of my petty individual ignorance. a lot of my friends are in their 60’s, 70’s, 80’s — & i’m glad i was allowed to appreciate their “insight” na.
i said it before, i don’t want to argue. ppl get very excited as if they’d be personally involved to make some point.
Rumours, rumours
@Ralph:
I remember reading that in the news too. I think I even saw a photo of the king and the new minister on Matichon website.
The lèse majesté plot thickens
Frank was too nice to Gunter. He is clearly foolish enough to write without even googling to find out about Head. What a dolt.
And, of course the FCCT is a communist cell, masquerading as something else that seems rather conservative.
PAD tries a political party
Antipadshit said, “in fact, in Thailand there are only 2 colors which matter: khaki (the military) and gray ( as in the famous saying “gray cardinals” – the elite, judiciary and whoever else power brokers, rich chaps) – only these 2 colors have REAL and strong power and influence. ”
Let me again remind you that between 1992 to 2006, the 2 colors you refer to lost a lot of their ‘power’, only to be regained once key ‘liberalists’ (PAD leaders) aligned themselves with a self-serving media magnate (Sonthi) in an attempt to oust Thaksin. That these “liberalists” sided with the real elite allowed the military out of the barracks to enact in a power grab resulting in the see-saw of power games we have seen till today.
Even today, with almost explicit “invisible” backing and a ‘successful’ putsch against Thaksin’s Red Shirts, the current government is hanging on only by a thread.
Anyone can see that by entering politics with weird or almost nonsensical statements like “We only wish to make politics clean, etc.” show that the PAD leadership is at odds and a little bit dazed right now.
Like a torn person, the PAD can no longer decide who is their worst enemy, the ‘untouchable’ caste who has aligned themselves with the Devil Thaksin, or the ‘elite’ class who used them.
I argue is crazy to discard the PAD. The PAD obviously don’t want to leave yet; but when they do (and they will soon if things remain stagnant or if a very particular charismatic person passes from the scene), and the PAD align themselves with certain aspects of the Red Shirt (less Jakraphob, Truth Today, and Thaksin), you will the formation of a very real and extremely powerful force that will have the khaki shirts and the grey shirts quaking in their boots and wetting themselves.
I do not succumb to your ridiculously slippery slope argument stating that the PAD are stuck in a lose-lose that Thailand will either fall to a popular uprising from the Northeast or turn into a facist state. No one will financially support the first, and the image-concious elite will have too much trouble in the Western world justifying the second. For all their complaints about the western world, the elite love travelling and showing off their ‘virtues’ to the foreigners who ‘don’t understand’ Thailand. Shades of facism will be too uncomfortable and there are a lot of Royal-Liberalists who will not give their “independent” backing of this kind of state of affairs.
There is one difference I would like to make though. The Red Shirts can live without the PAD, and perhaps even achieve their long-term goals without the PAD. Though, a joining of PAD and Red alliance would be game-changing.
There are no permanent enemies in Thai politics, so it will be interesting how things go.
Again, I agree with you that the PAD were only successful because of the backing from behind, without which the PAD would probably have been just another footnote in history. But the PAD also provide the only fathomable legitimacy (as of now) for the invisible people to keep in control. Blue and white shirts have not caught on and probably won’t either. There is no obvious bottom-up part in that organization that the PAD achieved.
So again I conclude, for the elite to remain powerful, they do need the PAD more than the PAD need them.
The PAD can always (and are) rebranding themselves as a group who will remain clean and fight all dirty politics, as such, they will try their best to remain ‘clean’. If pushed too far, I am sure that the PAD will go back to the battle of 1992 as their rallying cry.
$ufficiency economy
Not sure where Schumacher comes in here on this thread, but I said: “I actually think that SE can be claimed as something that is uniquely Thai. Sure there are statements elsewhere about sustainability, but SE is a more politically and ideologically driven set of ideas.” So I am not necessarily claiming originality about the ideas themselves, but the way they are put together into a package.
Schumacher actually had a lot more on labour in his approach to Buddhist economics and this king wouldn’t do that. The working class scare him.
Rumours, rumours
Didn’t the king receive a new minister at Hua Hin last week? He was quoted in the press but I didn’t catch the royal news that night.
I think BP has to say more. I have asked everyone I know and the only rumour they have heard is BP’s rumour of a rumour. This is silly.
Report on Shan conference in London
I respectfully request on behalf of all the fans of this great composer to express about their band’s ex-lead guitarist[Bone Bon]. Where has he gone? When did he join the band?
Rumours, rumours
It’s obviously not about Thaksin. He’s not a “sensitive” subject.
BP is more cautious than any other blogger when it comes to royals.
The post is titled “health and rumors.” The king is 82. Succession has been the elephant in the room for everything that’s happened in Thailand for 20 years.
So it’s almost certainly a rumor that the king is ill. From my count this is the 254th version of the rumor since 1999. Everyone hears it from a “reliable source.” I’ll credit BP with a higher standard than most, but still.
The SET is up today. If the king were really sick, powerful people with better sources than BP would be selling.
(Er, unless they all sold a year ago, which would explain a lot….)
PAD tries a political party
@Nga
well, I am not spending so much time on them lately as I used to. just a litle bit.
as for name change …. ha, I know – you’re trying to catch me. 🙂
name still has to remain as a reminder and as an encouragement to create awareness – coz their ideological propaganda is too fallaciously poisonous and rutheless and therefore still needs to be exposed. (if it wasn’t – there won’t be the whole this discussion here and some people claiming that PAD has got some credits for something which is too obviously and evidently belongs to others).
besides, they are perhaps the main if not the only comparatively open target to aim at – apart from Abhisit and Dems may be. “open” in the sense that they are “in the open” (not that they are “open minded” or liberal 🙂 ), on the surface, while others (army, judiciary, elite, etc.) are more like concealed and therefore it is more difficult to critisize them, or often impossible (for the lack of exposure or some taboos).
naturally being on the surface or acting as the cover – they get all the fire, being on the surface or acting as the cover, which is precisely the whole design of their puppeteers, I guess.
so, they can’t complain about it. hahaha
but anyway, thanks for reminding me – I was thinking the same more or less in past few days (like “wasting my time”).
regarding “Who warned them” – well, that I guess you should ask Nation newspaper (or MCOT ?), who as usually do not bother much to provide sources for reference. I merely tried to quote by memory what I’ve read in that article.
Andrew Selth on conspiracies and cock-ups
Regarding international media attention on the Yettaw incident/Su Kyi trial, a recent commentary by the Karen Human Rights Group (KHRG) is relevant. And coming as it did last week, before the recent exodus of over 3,000 Karen refugees to Thailand over the past few days, the commentary’s argument seems apt.
Andrew Selth on conspiracies and cock-ups
Kavi on nation today :
well, of course it is Kavi’s own opinion and he is well known for his such “opinions”. however the issue is pretty obvious – surely both Thailand and China are involved in Burma and rival for influence there.
Rumours, rumours
Dear Andrew, dear Nicholas,
unfortunately I hv no clou how to contact you but I dont want you to miss saw this one about Thaksin hiding in Germany …
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/271832,stay-by-thai-ex-premier-thaksin-in-germany-triggers-fury.html
German version of S├╝ddeutsche Zeitung:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/504/471048/text/
Best,
NH
Rumours, rumours
I’m starting a rumour: Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin has had gender reassignment & is currently in Bangkok, posing as the wife of Viktor Bout, the Russian gaolbird alleged to be a drug & arms dealer. Look at the photo on the front page of Bangkok Post website Sunday edition. If it’s gone, there’s a pretty revealing photo at the interview site @ http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/18067/viktor-bout-wife-breaks-her-silence
Fiendishly clever of him, say I!
Rumours, rumours
well, BP has certainly stirred up quite a huge internet traffic by this clue – so many people are doing extensive googling and search now for “15 June” ! LOL 😀
there was some article on AS titled “Rumor nation” around that time in 2007. although it was not dated June 15th, it does mention:
so, phrase “past few weeks” somewhat corresponds to the date June 15 2007. although in that article it was mentioned that mostly these rumors are in some on-line sources, not in official media. therefore I guess it would be difficult to find them now.
although there was some other article by Marwaan (IPS/ GIN) on June 15 2007, which is now available on several news archives only through subscription – so, I couldn’t read more than its teaser part, which mentions only Thaksin and therefore I doubt it is related to the matter mentioned by BP. perhaps someone who has an access to the full article could try check and see if anything else is mentioned in it.
there were also some other events dated June 15th – as some anti-junta rally at Sanam Luang that day in 2007. but it is certainly wasn’t so big event to deserve such amount of rumors and discussions.
The lèse majesté plot thickens
A strange cocktail here, a poison Twix bar, a geriatric lobbyist and a dash of LM. It looks like reporters are hard pushed to find a decent story. As for the Afghan I heard that he has left Phuket and gone to Vietnam where he wont find any monarchy to worry about.
Good Riddance!
Never fancied the FCCT though always seemed like a bunch of leftists and NGOs, I would never tarnish my reputation by setting foot inside.
Sex trafficking in Singapore
Putting the boot into Singapore seems to be a favourite passtime of people from countries that have had less success in the fight against corruption.