its occurred to me that some simple facts of the “sufficient communities project” would be quite interesting:
which communities were/are being targetted (I spose 17,000 is a bit of a long list, references?)
was one of the phase 1 communities Roi Et where the government won the seat but BP has noted Puer Thai increased their share of the vote cf 2007?
have there been any significant actions in any of the communities “favoured” by the military’s attention… eg red or yellow rallies held or cancelled, other elections, local officials movements, etc, etc?
by swallowing and regurgitating the incredible self-serving rubbish put forward by Sondhi Lim and his people you are dismissing and degrading the judgement of the poor in favour of snide and unsubstantiated allegations about their chosen leader …
unsubstantiated allegations in law and in fact as far as I can discover, driven by fear and greed, fear that Thaksin is strong enough to overthrow rule by Prem and the military
so, please apologise to me and the majority of Thai people
however I don’t think that Thai people will become enlightened very soon as long as Thai media keeps braiwashing them with subjugated knowledge and official truths.
majority of Thai people are too busy surviving in their struggle for existence, most often literally. they can’t afford neither buying newspapers nor reading them, and especially – buy a computer and read internet, which at the moment is perhaps THE ONLY source of alternative information.
that means most of consumers of Thai MSM and Thanong’s articles are middle-class, who are becoming increasingly anti-democratic reactionaries. their call for “unity and reconciliation” is a shameless farce. better if Thanong start visiting poor villages and do a bit of REAL investigative journalism there – of the real daily lives of MAJORITY of Thais.
therefore, talks about “enlightenment” are hypocritical. it is Thanong himself who needs to be enligthened and wake up to reality – instead of living in his dreamy La-La-land (as fellow blogger Thaicrisis calls it).
Well, attainment of Nibanna is defined by the liberation from GREED, HATRED and DELUSION – which are obviously ruling the Thai political arena.
[Since animism appears to be the coming hot issue on NM and the next thing to be fired at anything slightly yellow, bear in mind the difference between the Thammayut order and the customary somewhat “superstitious” Mahanikay order. Mongkut explicitly de-emphazied the house of psychic powers. It is not by coincident that many Westerners are attracted by the rationale of Thai forest monks such as LP Mun, LP Chah, or Ajahn Plien.]
“They would clearly not accept such a leader in their own developed countries. Manchester City fans, who chose to overlook his evil deeds are now rightly embarrassed that they chose Thaksin’s cash over human decency.”
The Man City fans are still talking about Thaksin and it would certainly appear that he is no longer the messiah-
Thanks for the link to the paper and presentation, Nich.
From my observation, Thais are much more Animists, believers in the supernatural, than Buddhists. We know that is a deep rooted cultural phenomenon pervasive at every level of society from the commoner to the elite. So is it a cultural specific Thai barrier to democracy? Do Thais have to reject their animistic beliefs, stop wearing the magical amulets in order to become a more democratic citizen? Are they totally incompatible?
I don’t know the answers – but as you said, it is worth a lot of deep reflections.
He was also quite clear at the time of the drug war as to what results he was looking for fron his drug war-
“Because drug traders are ruthless to our children, so being ruthless back to them is not a bad thing . . . . It may be necessary to have casualties . . . . If there are deaths among traders, it’s normal.” http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/4.htm#_ftnref7
Sidh S, you asked David Brown:
“Would I get an apology from you?”(Post#33)
I think we all know looking back through Mr.Brown’s posts, he is not capable, ever, of an apology.
Many of us have just given up on this, “blinkered being”.
His ignorance and arrogance, are equally amazing.
David Brown#32, you are clearly getting emotional here.
“meanwhile, please refrain from filling our inboxes with too much drivel about how wonderful the world would be if the rich could keep the poor under their feet”
Have I ever said that??? On the contrary, I explicitly and constantly condemn such manipulations of the poor. You can search back into my 1-2 years worth of comments here.
If you could snap a photo of the sign we would love to run it on New Mandala. The same goes for any other ASEAN unity road signs out there in other parts of the region. I have never seen such signs in other ASEAN countries but that isn’t to say they don’t exist.
“The best idea would though be that the critics of my reporting from the ground level would go down and make their own researched reports from the ground level, and find their own interpretation of what is happening now in Thailand’s political scene…”
It is certainly one of many good ideas, Nick #111, but not “the best”. At the end of day, you can be only at one place at a time and may end up describing a tree in the Red jungle. You are not privy to plannings and schemings of the Red Elites, the private phone calls with PMThaksin, the coordinations with PheuThai in the parliament, meetings in Hong Kong/Cambodia/Dubai the flow of cash etc…etc… A detailed report of PMThaksin’s VDO-links/phone-ins and rallies by the Red leadership country-wide, Red Radio and DTV contents would have also been helpful in understanding the radicalization process. What exactly transpired in those sessions? What was the crowd’s response? Where did the 100,000+ Reds come from? How did they get there? How were they fed?
These questions, ofcourse, also applies in the Yellow jungle and the new Blue jungle…
Don’t get me wrong, you have provided an excellent account here – that is undeniable – and you are to be highly commended for being transparent with your biases (something I find rare but admirable). I even nominated you for the Red leadership for your sincerity to the cause of the poor in contrast to PMThaksin and co.
There is a consistent manipulation of the poor and minorities through the War on Drugs and recent Red Violence in the media game that PMThaksin is a true master. Media images of ‘dead drug pushers and users’ to support PMThaksin’s ‘decisiveness’ and ‘effectiveness’ of HIS War on Drugs (and he happily claimed authorship and ownership as it feeds his popularity). Images of ‘dead Red fighters for democracy’ to support PMThaksin’s media reinvention of the ‘fighter for “True Democracy” against an oppressive, violent government’.
Really, it is a simple question of who’s policy this War on Drugs belongs to and who marketed it for all its worth… Should we blame the Iraqi War and the resultant hundred thousands of deaths and millions homeless on Bush/Cheney/Blair/Howard etal or do we blame it on the Queen of England?
I also have not seen any news of the “sufficiency project”… it will be really nice if someone on the ground can tell us whats been happening…
meanwhile here is a general comment:
governments with low support in the community need to maintain their relationship with the military to stay in power…. I notice the news of the second phase of the “sufficient communities project” which presumably is a bribe to the military to keep trying their tactics of intimidation that failed in the leadup to the 2007 election
Sidh… its really nice to see you and Portman having your own love-in
meanwhile, back in the real world…
the Thai banks, I suspect especially the royal owned SCB, are currently “enjoying” Thaksins money as part of their liquid assets… so its already doing good for Thailand
I agree that buying politicians loyalty is bad for Thai politics and I draw your attention to the evidence that governments that have a strong electoral mandate have little need to use such tactics to attract good MPs on their side … it is governments with low electoral support that need to indulge in such skullduggery and look with envy on those with an electoral majority
governments with low support in the community also need to maintain their relationship with the military to stay in power…. I notice the news of the second phase of the “sufficient communities project” which presumably is a bribe to the military to keep trying their tactics of intimidation that failed in the leadup to the 2007 election
meanwhile, please refrain from filling our inboxes with too much drivel about how wonderful the world would be if the rich could keep the poor under their feet
“р╕Бр╣Зр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╣Ар╕Вр╕╡р╕вр╕Щр╕Фр╕╡р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╣Гр╕Др╕гр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕Щр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕в” р╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Бр╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕Др╕┤р╕бр╕лр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╣М #3, please don’t give up. It is a great development that NM is evolving into a bilingual site and you are certainly contributing to it.
On this post though, you are using the wrong socio-historical framework in comparing recent global school massacres with our tragic October 6th, 1976.
The accurate historical context is the global war against Communism with the Vietnam War as the main frame of reference, at least for Southeast Asia in Thailand’s case. A quick Wikipedia search (unreliable for meticulous historians such as AjarnSomsak, but good enough to demonstrate the point here) gives these numbers:
“The war exacted a huge human cost in terms of fatalities, including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians, and 58,159 U.S. soldiers.[12]”
What is much lesser known is the violent suppression of Communist ‘insurgents’ and ‘sympathizers’ elsewhere. I saw a documentary on ABC (or SBS I can’t remember now) a few years ago that said up to a million Indonesians also perished under GenSuharto’s fight against Communism.
What is also lesser known is Thai causalities in this broader war – whether soldiers in combat in Vietnam and, regrettably, of students on Oct 6th…
I understand that is why, to AjarnSomsak’s dismay, few seem to take the event “seriously” (PMSamak, Dan Rivers etal). For one, it is the incomparable, contrasting scale of events between Thailand and elsewhere. The other could be that many societies suffering immeasurably from those wars have already begun to put it behind them – with the Vietnamese Communist government now welcoming US, Chinese (and also Thai) capitalists with open arms.
Ironically, I experienced some remnants of conflict here some years ago in Melbourne when a waitress, originally from South Vietnam, refused to serve my friend from Hanoi (the accent was the giveaway)…
“…whereas the 76 billion is good collateral for all kinds of promises while it is still there shining at the end of the rainbow”
Clearly a sad state of Pheu Thai Party, ‘MP-employees’ of PMThaksin. I’ve read many will be switching colors, from Red to Blue, and apply for jobs with a rising group of capitalist-patron in the form of PhumjaiThai party.
For me, politicians selling their votes are far more damaging than people selling their votes – and it will be a major problem for many years to come. The present constitution comes down very hard on the latter case by punishing the whole party for an executive caught in any form of ‘buying’ votes (well, at least the ‘sellers’ are not punished?) – while being more lenient on the former, allowing the ‘free vote’ (I am not sure if it is a fair interpretation?).
And thanks, Portman, for pointing out a possible positive on the 76 billion baht saga. It could indeed be a ‘blessing in disguise’ considering the GFC…
Didn’t the military-backed government investigate the war on drugs? Why didn’t that result in any outcome? Could it be that too many on all sides of the current political divide are implicated? That doesn’t absolve Thaksin or the palace in any way, but when they had the chance to investigate, the result was convenient for many.
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$ufficiency economy
its occurred to me that some simple facts of the “sufficient communities project” would be quite interesting:
which communities were/are being targetted (I spose 17,000 is a bit of a long list, references?)
was one of the phase 1 communities Roi Et where the government won the seat but BP has noted Puer Thai increased their share of the vote cf 2007?
have there been any significant actions in any of the communities “favoured” by the military’s attention… eg red or yellow rallies held or cancelled, other elections, local officials movements, etc, etc?
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
apology?
Thaksin was and is the choice of the poor….
by swallowing and regurgitating the incredible self-serving rubbish put forward by Sondhi Lim and his people you are dismissing and degrading the judgement of the poor in favour of snide and unsubstantiated allegations about their chosen leader …
unsubstantiated allegations in law and in fact as far as I can discover, driven by fear and greed, fear that Thaksin is strong enough to overthrow rule by Prem and the military
so, please apologise to me and the majority of Thai people
Utopian visions, Buddhism and King Bhumibol
alright, here are my 2 satangs :
Thanong’s words are very eloquent and nice …
however I don’t think that Thai people will become enlightened very soon as long as Thai media keeps braiwashing them with subjugated knowledge and official truths.
majority of Thai people are too busy surviving in their struggle for existence, most often literally. they can’t afford neither buying newspapers nor reading them, and especially – buy a computer and read internet, which at the moment is perhaps THE ONLY source of alternative information.
that means most of consumers of Thai MSM and Thanong’s articles are middle-class, who are becoming increasingly anti-democratic reactionaries. their call for “unity and reconciliation” is a shameless farce. better if Thanong start visiting poor villages and do a bit of REAL investigative journalism there – of the real daily lives of MAJORITY of Thais.
therefore, talks about “enlightenment” are hypocritical. it is Thanong himself who needs to be enligthened and wake up to reality – instead of living in his dreamy La-La-land (as fellow blogger Thaicrisis calls it).
Pasuk and Baker on “spirits, stars and Thai politics”
‘First, announcing astrological predictions of coming events is a way of preparing people to accept them, and not to oppose them…’
And hasn’t that role been overtaken now by the pollsters in the West? The more things change…
Utopian visions, Buddhism and King Bhumibol
Well, attainment of Nibanna is defined by the liberation from GREED, HATRED and DELUSION – which are obviously ruling the Thai political arena.
[Since animism appears to be the coming hot issue on NM and the next thing to be fired at anything slightly yellow, bear in mind the difference between the Thammayut order and the customary somewhat “superstitious” Mahanikay order. Mongkut explicitly de-emphazied the house of psychic powers. It is not by coincident that many Westerners are attracted by the rationale of Thai forest monks such as LP Mun, LP Chah, or Ajahn Plien.]
The crushing of the Red Shirts
“They would clearly not accept such a leader in their own developed countries. Manchester City fans, who chose to overlook his evil deeds are now rightly embarrassed that they chose Thaksin’s cash over human decency.”
The Man City fans are still talking about Thaksin and it would certainly appear that he is no longer the messiah-
http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116041
Let’s hope that the New Mandala red-shirts will also see the error of their ways before too long.
Pasuk and Baker on “spirits, stars and Thai politics”
Thanks for the link to the paper and presentation, Nich.
From my observation, Thais are much more Animists, believers in the supernatural, than Buddhists. We know that is a deep rooted cultural phenomenon pervasive at every level of society from the commoner to the elite. So is it a cultural specific Thai barrier to democracy? Do Thais have to reject their animistic beliefs, stop wearing the magical amulets in order to become a more democratic citizen? Are they totally incompatible?
I don’t know the answers – but as you said, it is worth a lot of deep reflections.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
“Really, it is a simple question of who’s policy this War on Drugs belongs to and who marketed it for all its worth… “
Thaksin himself seems to be in little doubt who’s drug war it was, and he is still feeling very pleased with himself about it-
“Everyone who benefitted from the Bt30 healthcare scheme for all, or those who got their children back after I waged a war on drugs,……”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/31/opinion/opinion_30099202.php
He was also quite clear at the time of the drug war as to what results he was looking for fron his drug war-
“Because drug traders are ruthless to our children, so being ruthless back to them is not a bad thing . . . . It may be necessary to have casualties . . . . If there are deaths among traders, it’s normal.”
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/4.htm#_ftnref7
“In this war, drug dealers must die.”
http://www.dassk.com/contents.php?id=132
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
Sidh S, you asked David Brown:
“Would I get an apology from you?”(Post#33)
I think we all know looking back through Mr.Brown’s posts, he is not capable, ever, of an apology.
Many of us have just given up on this, “blinkered being”.
His ignorance and arrogance, are equally amazing.
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
David Brown#32, you are clearly getting emotional here.
“meanwhile, please refrain from filling our inboxes with too much drivel about how wonderful the world would be if the rich could keep the poor under their feet”
Have I ever said that??? On the contrary, I explicitly and constantly condemn such manipulations of the poor. You can search back into my 1-2 years worth of comments here.
Would I get an apology from you?
From the New Mandala archive: ASEAN connections
Thanks John,
If you could snap a photo of the sign we would love to run it on New Mandala. The same goes for any other ASEAN unity road signs out there in other parts of the region. I have never seen such signs in other ASEAN countries but that isn’t to say they don’t exist.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
From the New Mandala archive: ASEAN connections
…following the same theme there is milestone with the distances to even more ASAEN destinations on it in Lampang.
The crushing of the Red Shirts
“The best idea would though be that the critics of my reporting from the ground level would go down and make their own researched reports from the ground level, and find their own interpretation of what is happening now in Thailand’s political scene…”
It is certainly one of many good ideas, Nick #111, but not “the best”. At the end of day, you can be only at one place at a time and may end up describing a tree in the Red jungle. You are not privy to plannings and schemings of the Red Elites, the private phone calls with PMThaksin, the coordinations with PheuThai in the parliament, meetings in Hong Kong/Cambodia/Dubai the flow of cash etc…etc… A detailed report of PMThaksin’s VDO-links/phone-ins and rallies by the Red leadership country-wide, Red Radio and DTV contents would have also been helpful in understanding the radicalization process. What exactly transpired in those sessions? What was the crowd’s response? Where did the 100,000+ Reds come from? How did they get there? How were they fed?
These questions, ofcourse, also applies in the Yellow jungle and the new Blue jungle…
Don’t get me wrong, you have provided an excellent account here – that is undeniable – and you are to be highly commended for being transparent with your biases (something I find rare but admirable). I even nominated you for the Red leadership for your sincerity to the cause of the poor in contrast to PMThaksin and co.
There is a consistent manipulation of the poor and minorities through the War on Drugs and recent Red Violence in the media game that PMThaksin is a true master. Media images of ‘dead drug pushers and users’ to support PMThaksin’s ‘decisiveness’ and ‘effectiveness’ of HIS War on Drugs (and he happily claimed authorship and ownership as it feeds his popularity). Images of ‘dead Red fighters for democracy’ to support PMThaksin’s media reinvention of the ‘fighter for “True Democracy” against an oppressive, violent government’.
Really, it is a simple question of who’s policy this War on Drugs belongs to and who marketed it for all its worth… Should we blame the Iraqi War and the resultant hundred thousands of deaths and millions homeless on Bush/Cheney/Blair/Howard etal or do we blame it on the Queen of England?
$ufficiency economy
I also have not seen any news of the “sufficiency project”… it will be really nice if someone on the ground can tell us whats been happening…
meanwhile here is a general comment:
governments with low support in the community need to maintain their relationship with the military to stay in power…. I notice the news of the second phase of the “sufficient communities project” which presumably is a bribe to the military to keep trying their tactics of intimidation that failed in the leadup to the 2007 election
Student massacres
р╕Вр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓ р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕вр╣Ар╕Др╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕вр╕┤р╕Щ р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Др╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Др╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Ир╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
р╣Ар╕Др╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕вр╕┤р╕Щр╕бр╕▓р╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕бр╕╡р╕Фр╕▓р╕з р╕Ир╕│р╕Щр╕зр╕Щр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ир╕░р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Ир╕│р╕лр╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕в р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕н р╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╣Гр╕Щр╣Ар╕Вр╕Хр╣Др╕лр╕Щ р╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Юр╕нр╣Ар╕Др╕вр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╣Вр╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕кр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕нр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕Чр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ
р╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╣Зр╕бр╕╡р╣Бр╕Др╣Ир╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Чр╕бр╕┤р╕м р╕бр╕╡р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ър╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕зр╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
р╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Др╕Ыр╣Др╕Бр╕е р╕Вр╕нр╕гр╕Ър╕Бр╕зр╕Щр╕Цр╕▓р╕б 2 р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
1. р╣Ар╕Фр╕ер╕┤р╕Щр╕┤р╕зр╕кр╣Мр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╕Фр╕╣р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕гр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╣Ар╕Кр╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╕Ър╣Ир╕▓р╕в
2. р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕лр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕бр╕╕р╕Фр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤р╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕Ир╕░р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕Фр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕гр╕╕р╣Ир╕Щр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ъ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Гр╕Фр╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З р╕Бр╣Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Юр╕нр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Гр╕Фр╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕кр╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕Зр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕╣р╕Нр╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╕вр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕╣р╕ер╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕│р╕Др╕▒р╕Нр╣Др╕Ыр╣Ар╕лр╕гр╕нр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╕Др╕Щр╕ер╕░р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╣Зр╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Др╕Ы
р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕гр╕╡р╕Ъ р╕Вр╕нр╕нр╕Щр╕╕р╕Нр╕▓р╕Хр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
Sidh… its really nice to see you and Portman having your own love-in
meanwhile, back in the real world…
the Thai banks, I suspect especially the royal owned SCB, are currently “enjoying” Thaksins money as part of their liquid assets… so its already doing good for Thailand
I agree that buying politicians loyalty is bad for Thai politics and I draw your attention to the evidence that governments that have a strong electoral mandate have little need to use such tactics to attract good MPs on their side … it is governments with low electoral support that need to indulge in such skullduggery and look with envy on those with an electoral majority
governments with low support in the community also need to maintain their relationship with the military to stay in power…. I notice the news of the second phase of the “sufficient communities project” which presumably is a bribe to the military to keep trying their tactics of intimidation that failed in the leadup to the 2007 election
meanwhile, please refrain from filling our inboxes with too much drivel about how wonderful the world would be if the rich could keep the poor under their feet
Student massacres
“р╕Бр╣Зр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕ер╕┤р╕Бр╣Ар╕Вр╕╡р╕вр╕Щр╕Фр╕╡р╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Юр╕гр╕▓р╕░р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╣Гр╕Др╕гр╣Ар╕ер╣Ир╕Щр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕в” р╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Бр╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕Др╕┤р╕бр╕лр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╣М #3, please don’t give up. It is a great development that NM is evolving into a bilingual site and you are certainly contributing to it.
On this post though, you are using the wrong socio-historical framework in comparing recent global school massacres with our tragic October 6th, 1976.
The accurate historical context is the global war against Communism with the Vietnam War as the main frame of reference, at least for Southeast Asia in Thailand’s case. A quick Wikipedia search (unreliable for meticulous historians such as AjarnSomsak, but good enough to demonstrate the point here) gives these numbers:
“The war exacted a huge human cost in terms of fatalities, including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians, and 58,159 U.S. soldiers.[12]”
What is much lesser known is the violent suppression of Communist ‘insurgents’ and ‘sympathizers’ elsewhere. I saw a documentary on ABC (or SBS I can’t remember now) a few years ago that said up to a million Indonesians also perished under GenSuharto’s fight against Communism.
What is also lesser known is Thai causalities in this broader war – whether soldiers in combat in Vietnam and, regrettably, of students on Oct 6th…
I understand that is why, to AjarnSomsak’s dismay, few seem to take the event “seriously” (PMSamak, Dan Rivers etal). For one, it is the incomparable, contrasting scale of events between Thailand and elsewhere. The other could be that many societies suffering immeasurably from those wars have already begun to put it behind them – with the Vietnamese Communist government now welcoming US, Chinese (and also Thai) capitalists with open arms.
Ironically, I experienced some remnants of conflict here some years ago in Melbourne when a waitress, originally from South Vietnam, refused to serve my friend from Hanoi (the accent was the giveaway)…
Utopian visions, Buddhism and King Bhumibol
Check out where Fonzi deconstructed a previous history lesson by Thanong Khanthong:
http://thailandjumpedtheshark.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-04-27T04%3A46%3A00%2B07%3A00&max-results=7
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
“…whereas the 76 billion is good collateral for all kinds of promises while it is still there shining at the end of the rainbow”
Clearly a sad state of Pheu Thai Party, ‘MP-employees’ of PMThaksin. I’ve read many will be switching colors, from Red to Blue, and apply for jobs with a rising group of capitalist-patron in the form of PhumjaiThai party.
For me, politicians selling their votes are far more damaging than people selling their votes – and it will be a major problem for many years to come. The present constitution comes down very hard on the latter case by punishing the whole party for an executive caught in any form of ‘buying’ votes (well, at least the ‘sellers’ are not punished?) – while being more lenient on the former, allowing the ‘free vote’ (I am not sure if it is a fair interpretation?).
And thanks, Portman, for pointing out a possible positive on the 76 billion baht saga. It could indeed be a ‘blessing in disguise’ considering the GFC…
The crushing of the Red Shirts
Didn’t the military-backed government investigate the war on drugs? Why didn’t that result in any outcome? Could it be that too many on all sides of the current political divide are implicated? That doesn’t absolve Thaksin or the palace in any way, but when they had the chance to investigate, the result was convenient for many.