RE: t4e#2
Abhisit is not “Arresting Red Leaders all over the country”. Police and prosecutors are arresting them because they broke the law. Please tell me which ‘democratic’ nation would not arrest the leadership of an attempted violent insurrection?
Abhisit has relentlessly insisted that Thailand will be ‘under the rule of law” during his watch. Unless you give credence to the wild conspiracy theories of the more rabid Shinawatra cult acolytes I see no reason to doubt his sincerity in this regard.
It is worth bearing in mind that since Abhisit came to power just 4 moths ago his democrat party compatriots do not appear to have been afforded any preferential treatment. Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin was forced to fall on his sword on his sword after being implicated in the fire engine scandal and elected Democrat MP Soracha Weerachart-wattana was disqualified for vote buying. Also, despite the risk of bringing the yellow extremists back onto the streets, the PAD leadership was charged in line with the direction of the courts.
‘Reaching out to the reds’ will not be the appeasement of Thaksin and the maniacs who ran amok in Bangkok and Pattaya last week. It will, more likely, be policy related and designed to placate the moderate Puea Thai voter. With Thaksin and the red shirts alienating themselves further each day from the politically bored, all the Democrats need to offer is fair and fully inclusive constitutional reform (which appears to be already on the table), and a continuance of both the ‘borrowed’ populist policies of the Thaksin era and their own initiatives in education, welfare for the elderly etc. I’m sure ‘Mark’ understands the principles of old fashioned British ‘divide and rule’ well enough.
So how will this messy chapter end? With a clean, stable, prosperous Bhum Jai Thai/Democrat two party system under a politically indifferent constitutional monarch with Thaksin serving a life sentence in jail, and the army confined to barracks.
That the yellow shirts had upper level protection is out of doubt. As the least, nobody is charged for endangering international air traffic (in most cases regarded as an act of terrorism). The connection between elites and violence has been amply demonstrated. One only needs to turn to the FFT or to 1992 etc. Taking a certain level of historic depth into consideration, it is cynical to speak of violence perpetrated by the red shirts. If you are attacked violently, and are forced to fight back in a violent way, whose fault is it? In difference to feudal orders, where the lords had the right of life over their subjects, in all democracies the right of resistance against suppression, even in a violent way if necessary, is an integral part of the constitution.
However, one might be contained with (feudal) elite hypocrisy: Killing a farmer is more or less o.k., while a farmer throwing a stone is violent and should be punished! Let’s cite Hamlet: “There is something rotten …”
Sonthi’s son, Chittanard Limthongkul, said that the politician who pulls string behind the Blue Shirted group, was responsible for the assassination of his father. It’s printed in most local Thai newspapers (19th April) in Matichon, Khaosod, Thairath, Komchadluek, ect. including Sonthi’s newspaper, the Manager online. However, Newin Chidchod has denied the charge.
PM urges political parties to propose charter amendments During his weekly Sunday television talk Abhisit invited all political parties to determine which articles of the charter should be amended, with proposals to be submitted within fortnight.
The proposed amendment will then be presented to society for approval, before being included in the charter, he said.
Some politicians are dissatisfied with an article in the current charter which provides for the dissolution of a party if its leader or executive member engages in electoral fraud. Four parties have been dissolved under the terms of this article.
He said political blunders must be separated from criminal charges,” he said, apparently referring to former PM Thaksin Shinawatra who is convicted of corruption and abuse of power and is sentenced to 2 years in prison.
He added the ongoing shutdown of community radio stations will continue against those having instigated unrest and have called on the public to commit unlawful acts.
Apparently there’s going to be just one amendment? The disenfranchisement of the Thai people is top on the list, which society will present and discuss, over dinner probably. There’s enough room at one or two large tables for all who count.
And oh yes! that law we used to dissolve your party? it’ll be made illegal, now that it’s served its purpose. So you cannot dissolve our putsch (coup). We may blunder, but you are criminals, and don’t you ever forget it!
My proposal would be to reinstate the 1997 Constitution, and to eliminate the requirement that Thai citizens hold tertiary degrees as the means of disenfranchisement. I’m sure it needs some other work as well.
It deals with the people in terms of parties too much. I noticed that the EC just disbanded 26 parties on grounds it made up to suit the “requirements”.
I’m just a farang and don’t know much. I’m sure there are any number of Thais who could fix up the 1997 article and put it back into service.
Evolution instead revolution. Turning over the table and burning the place down with every coup, and they’re back at a fast and furious pace apparently, is purposeful denying any sort of government at all. Rule by law as opposed to rule of law, as someone said.
Arrest warrants issued for red-shirt leaders in North Most of those charged were accused of blocking Chiang Rai’s main highway and holding an assembly of more than 10 people, a law dating to Thailand’s dictatorial period.
I’d say another coup has taken place, but this time with Abhisit playing Charley McCarthy to their dark eminences themselves.
If it talks like a coup, walks like a coup, and acts like a coup… its a putsch turned coup.
And that’s been more or less ‘normal’ since 2006 in Thailand.
We can at least be thankful that the operation was over fairly quickly, unlike the protracted drug war that presented perfect opputunities for enemies to be liquidated, with no further explanations than he was a drug dealer.
(Imagine the carnage if the current PM had left open similar opportunities during the reds clean up operation)
In Mr Le Fevre’s photos he shows Thai army troops taking aim at protesters and points out that those aiming at the protesters have extra equipment – a bag around their waist – that the other soldiers don’t have.
After the last weekends events (storming ASEAN summit looking for Abhisit, lynch mob as Interior ministry etc etc), is any one here seriously arguing that only one side is violent?
IMO, such an argument would surely diminish the thrust of your line of reasoning, and call into question your objectivity.
How will this messy chapter end?
With more mess! Much more! Things are surely gonna get worse before they get better.
IMHO, the situation in Thailand is now, more than ever, in a deadlock. I don’t see any compromise that is acceptable to both sides. The longer it takes, the harder it is to reach a compromise. This is sad but true current state of affairs. I’m afraid people on one side would have to be all dead or in jail before the game is over.
Thailand may be going back to the Mongol/Barbarians Empire’s era where the winners killed all the male enemies and raped all the women. That way the winners can fear no retribution since all the new-borns will be one of them.
Re: bodies
In 1992, to the best of my knowledge , there were no photos of bodies being loaded on to trucks. There was, (I think, but not quite certain) one very ambiguous photos of a rear view of a truck purported to be carrying bodies. There was (certainly) a story that went with it about witnesses seeing this truck with bodies at some point on Vipavadhi-Rangsit. But investigations never backed up the story, which I believe to be apocryphal. Asia Watch (now Human Rights Watch – Asia) looked into the matter, and it may be discusses in the report they did with Physicians for Social Responsibility, titled “Black May: etc etc.” It does not appear to be available online.
I think the more interesting parallel, which I’m surprised no one has mentioned, is Tak Bai. At the time, at least (and perhaps up to today, I haven’t looked into it) no photos were available of the loading of the detained men into the trucks in the manner that would cause so many deaths. (There were photos and videos of the brutality leading up to that point. TV stations, after initially showing the video, were quickly warned by the government to pull it and most complied. Of course, they started circulating on the Internet anyway.)
I’m very skeptical of reports of bodies being secretly taken away. My point is, an absence of photos is not a very strong argument that it didn’t happen.
could you provide more details and if possible – references?
I was e-mailed that NBT had a TV report of interview with woman whose son was killed allegedly by Reds – or so government and Thai MSM reported. She said that she didn’t believe Reds shot him – because she saw that it was fired from abother direction. she requested authorities to make proper investigations.
if someone has link to youtube video of that interview – please share it.
“educated people told the ‘demos’ : you won’t have me ‘on your side’ because your democracy-justice loveing credential is suspected because you choose to fight for leader of your choice (not mine)”
What if I think the leader they are fighting for is not democratic?
Ajarn Somsak: Can you help me understand your position please?
Leaving aside your views on the monarchy etc, would I be correct if I summarised your position regarding Democracy and Thaksin as:
– Thaksin elected, therefore he is acceptable
If that is a reasonable summary, then lets further simplify things by breaking up those who do not find Thaksin acceptable into 2 basic groups:
1. Those who wish to argue that Thaksin is unsuitable PM material based on his record, and use those arguments to attempt to persuade others (including existing supporters of Thaksin)
2. Those who will do, or accept others doing, anything whatsoever to stop Thaksin
Obviously those in group 2 are non-democratic (or worse), but am I correct in assuming that you are arguing that those in group 1 above are also both pretentious and non-democratic?
(I think they could be either, both, or neither pretentious or non-democratic, but not necessarily so just because they do not find Thaksin acceptable)
btw, I don’t think I have ever claimed to be a democracy lover, but I am a Plato lover.
Ajarn Somsak #93. I am sorry to say that your posts are becoming so convoluted and more and more like arcane mathematical puzzles that I for one cannot figure out for the life of me what is your viewpoint. I suppose this is worthy academic debate for its own sake but I am glad I don’t have to sit exams set by you.
This story seems to be taking a turn for the worse with the news that 9 new charges have been filed against Chiranuch, raising the maximum penalty she faces to 50 years, on a par with murderers and drug smugglers.
Campaigning more aggressively against the outrageous Computer Crimes Act promulgated by the Sarayudh government might be more fertile than campaigning against the LM laws in this environment, as the latter just hits a brick wall.
many educated people (Plato case is not uncommon) claim or think that they are ‘democracy’ and ‘justice’ loving, but when the ‘demos’ (ordinary people) chose their own leader and insist on fighting for justice for him (becasue he was illegally, i.e. unjustly, removed), those same ‘democray-justice loving’ educated people then point the finger at the ‘demos’ and said ‘your claim to justice and democracy is not credible‘! and (acting pompously) “I therefore will not join you”
I ask : whose claim to justice and democracy is credible, the demos or the educated? and if this isn’t a classic case of ‘pretentiousness’ (dat-ja-rit), what is?
‘de-va-da’ is when :
educated people told the ‘demos’ : you won’t have me ‘on your side’ because your democracy-justice loveing credential is suspected because you choose to fight for leader of your choice (not mine).
It’s sad that these ‘de-va-da’ ‘dat-ja-rit’ can’t even see how pretentiou their stance is.
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How will this messy chapter end?
RE: t4e#2
Abhisit is not “Arresting Red Leaders all over the country”. Police and prosecutors are arresting them because they broke the law. Please tell me which ‘democratic’ nation would not arrest the leadership of an attempted violent insurrection?
Abhisit has relentlessly insisted that Thailand will be ‘under the rule of law” during his watch. Unless you give credence to the wild conspiracy theories of the more rabid Shinawatra cult acolytes I see no reason to doubt his sincerity in this regard.
It is worth bearing in mind that since Abhisit came to power just 4 moths ago his democrat party compatriots do not appear to have been afforded any preferential treatment. Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin was forced to fall on his sword on his sword after being implicated in the fire engine scandal and elected Democrat MP Soracha Weerachart-wattana was disqualified for vote buying. Also, despite the risk of bringing the yellow extremists back onto the streets, the PAD leadership was charged in line with the direction of the courts.
‘Reaching out to the reds’ will not be the appeasement of Thaksin and the maniacs who ran amok in Bangkok and Pattaya last week. It will, more likely, be policy related and designed to placate the moderate Puea Thai voter. With Thaksin and the red shirts alienating themselves further each day from the politically bored, all the Democrats need to offer is fair and fully inclusive constitutional reform (which appears to be already on the table), and a continuance of both the ‘borrowed’ populist policies of the Thaksin era and their own initiatives in education, welfare for the elderly etc. I’m sure ‘Mark’ understands the principles of old fashioned British ‘divide and rule’ well enough.
So how will this messy chapter end? With a clean, stable, prosperous Bhum Jai Thai/Democrat two party system under a politically indifferent constitutional monarch with Thaksin serving a life sentence in jail, and the army confined to barracks.
You can put your money on it.
The yellow lesson
That the yellow shirts had upper level protection is out of doubt. As the least, nobody is charged for endangering international air traffic (in most cases regarded as an act of terrorism). The connection between elites and violence has been amply demonstrated. One only needs to turn to the FFT or to 1992 etc. Taking a certain level of historic depth into consideration, it is cynical to speak of violence perpetrated by the red shirts. If you are attacked violently, and are forced to fight back in a violent way, whose fault is it? In difference to feudal orders, where the lords had the right of life over their subjects, in all democracies the right of resistance against suppression, even in a violent way if necessary, is an integral part of the constitution.
However, one might be contained with (feudal) elite hypocrisy: Killing a farmer is more or less o.k., while a farmer throwing a stone is violent and should be punished! Let’s cite Hamlet: “There is something rotten …”
Back to normal?
р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Ир╕┤р╕Хр╕Хр╕Щр╕▓р╕Ц р╕ер╕┤р╣Йр╕бр╕Чр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕е р╕Ър╕╕р╕Хр╕гр╕Кр╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤р╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕╕р╕Др╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕ер╕нр╕Ър╕Жр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Щр╕Шр╕┤ р╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ър╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕бр╕зр╕ер╕Кр╕Щр╕кр╕╡р╕Щр╣Йр╕│р╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щ
Sonthi’s son, Chittanard Limthongkul, said that the politician who pulls string behind the Blue Shirted group, was responsible for the assassination of his father. It’s printed in most local Thai newspapers (19th April) in Matichon, Khaosod, Thairath, Komchadluek, ect. including Sonthi’s newspaper, the Manager online. However, Newin Chidchod has denied the charge.
Back to normal?
PM urges political parties to propose charter amendments
During his weekly Sunday television talk Abhisit invited all political parties to determine which articles of the charter should be amended, with proposals to be submitted within fortnight.
The proposed amendment will then be presented to society for approval, before being included in the charter, he said.
Some politicians are dissatisfied with an article in the current charter which provides for the dissolution of a party if its leader or executive member engages in electoral fraud. Four parties have been dissolved under the terms of this article.
He said political blunders must be separated from criminal charges,” he said, apparently referring to former PM Thaksin Shinawatra who is convicted of corruption and abuse of power and is sentenced to 2 years in prison.
He added the ongoing shutdown of community radio stations will continue against those having instigated unrest and have called on the public to commit unlawful acts.
Apparently there’s going to be just one amendment? The disenfranchisement of the Thai people is top on the list, which society will present and discuss, over dinner probably. There’s enough room at one or two large tables for all who count.
And oh yes! that law we used to dissolve your party? it’ll be made illegal, now that it’s served its purpose. So you cannot dissolve our putsch (coup). We may blunder, but you are criminals, and don’t you ever forget it!
My proposal would be to reinstate the 1997 Constitution, and to eliminate the requirement that Thai citizens hold tertiary degrees as the means of disenfranchisement. I’m sure it needs some other work as well.
It deals with the people in terms of parties too much. I noticed that the EC just disbanded 26 parties on grounds it made up to suit the “requirements”.
I’m just a farang and don’t know much. I’m sure there are any number of Thais who could fix up the 1997 article and put it back into service.
Evolution instead revolution. Turning over the table and burning the place down with every coup, and they’re back at a fast and furious pace apparently, is purposeful denying any sort of government at all. Rule by law as opposed to rule of law, as someone said.
Back to normal?
Arrest warrants issued for red-shirt leaders in North
Most of those charged were accused of blocking Chiang Rai’s main highway and holding an assembly of more than 10 people, a law dating to Thailand’s dictatorial period.
I’d say another coup has taken place, but this time with Abhisit playing Charley McCarthy to their dark eminences themselves.
If it talks like a coup, walks like a coup, and acts like a coup… its a putsch turned coup.
And that’s been more or less ‘normal’ since 2006 in Thailand.
Photos of the crisis in Thailand
There are also some very good photos and editorial at http://photojourn.wordpress.com
He seems to have been in a lot of places.
Thailand’s royal sub-plot
We can at least be thankful that the operation was over fairly quickly, unlike the protracted drug war that presented perfect opputunities for enemies to be liquidated, with no further explanations than he was a drug dealer.
(Imagine the carnage if the current PM had left open similar opportunities during the reds clean up operation)
Battle at Dindaeng, Bangkok, 13 April 2009
There are some excellent photos and editorial at this site that I have not seen published elsewhere http://photojourn.wordpress.com/
In particular there is a supposed eye witness account by a monk of seeing a monk and other people shot at Din Daeng http://photojourn.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/monk-i-saw-thai-army-shoot-monk-and-people-at-din-daeng/
In Mr Le Fevre’s photos he shows Thai army troops taking aim at protesters and points out that those aiming at the protesters have extra equipment – a bag around their waist – that the other soldiers don’t have.
He also wrote an interesting analysis article after the Pattaya riots http://photojourn.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/thailand-prime-minister-dead-man-walking-as-asean-leaders-flee-pattaya/
The yellow lesson
After the last weekends events (storming ASEAN summit looking for Abhisit, lynch mob as Interior ministry etc etc), is any one here seriously arguing that only one side is violent?
IMO, such an argument would surely diminish the thrust of your line of reasoning, and call into question your objectivity.
How will this messy chapter end?
How will this messy chapter end?
With more mess! Much more! Things are surely gonna get worse before they get better.
IMHO, the situation in Thailand is now, more than ever, in a deadlock. I don’t see any compromise that is acceptable to both sides. The longer it takes, the harder it is to reach a compromise. This is sad but true current state of affairs. I’m afraid people on one side would have to be all dead or in jail before the game is over.
Thailand may be going back to the Mongol/Barbarians Empire’s era where the winners killed all the male enemies and raped all the women. That way the winners can fear no retribution since all the new-borns will be one of them.
Thailand’s royal sub-plot
Re: bodies
In 1992, to the best of my knowledge , there were no photos of bodies being loaded on to trucks. There was, (I think, but not quite certain) one very ambiguous photos of a rear view of a truck purported to be carrying bodies. There was (certainly) a story that went with it about witnesses seeing this truck with bodies at some point on Vipavadhi-Rangsit. But investigations never backed up the story, which I believe to be apocryphal. Asia Watch (now Human Rights Watch – Asia) looked into the matter, and it may be discusses in the report they did with Physicians for Social Responsibility, titled “Black May: etc etc.” It does not appear to be available online.
I think the more interesting parallel, which I’m surprised no one has mentioned, is Tak Bai. At the time, at least (and perhaps up to today, I haven’t looked into it) no photos were available of the loading of the detained men into the trucks in the manner that would cause so many deaths. (There were photos and videos of the brutality leading up to that point. TV stations, after initially showing the video, were quickly warned by the government to pull it and most complied. Of course, they started circulating on the Internet anyway.)
I’m very skeptical of reports of bodies being secretly taken away. My point is, an absence of photos is not a very strong argument that it didn’t happen.
Kavi and Walker on Australian radio
@Susie Wong
@No Color Thai
these are interesting comments!
could you provide more details and if possible – references?
I was e-mailed that NBT had a TV report of interview with woman whose son was killed allegedly by Reds – or so government and Thai MSM reported. She said that she didn’t believe Reds shot him – because she saw that it was fired from abother direction. she requested authorities to make proper investigations.
if someone has link to youtube video of that interview – please share it.
The yellow lesson
On the (UDD) events at Prem’s residence, see (for the sake of falsehood versus truth in the sense of #16)
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/08/12/revisiting-the-prem-compound-clashes/
For the (PAD) events at Parliament on October 7, 2008, see
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2008/10/11/what-happened-on-7102008/
Crackdown on the reds?
“educated people told the ‘demos’ : you won’t have me ‘on your side’ because your democracy-justice loveing credential is suspected because you choose to fight for leader of your choice (not mine)”
What if I think the leader they are fighting for is not democratic?
Ajarn Somsak: Can you help me understand your position please?
Leaving aside your views on the monarchy etc, would I be correct if I summarised your position regarding Democracy and Thaksin as:
– Thaksin elected, therefore he is acceptable
If that is a reasonable summary, then lets further simplify things by breaking up those who do not find Thaksin acceptable into 2 basic groups:
1. Those who wish to argue that Thaksin is unsuitable PM material based on his record, and use those arguments to attempt to persuade others (including existing supporters of Thaksin)
2. Those who will do, or accept others doing, anything whatsoever to stop Thaksin
Obviously those in group 2 are non-democratic (or worse), but am I correct in assuming that you are arguing that those in group 1 above are also both pretentious and non-democratic?
(I think they could be either, both, or neither pretentious or non-democratic, but not necessarily so just because they do not find Thaksin acceptable)
btw, I don’t think I have ever claimed to be a democracy lover, but I am a Plato lover.
How will this messy chapter end?
Arresting Red Leaders all over the country gives new meaning to “reaching out to the reds”
t4e
Crackdown on the reds?
Ajarn Somsak #93. I am sorry to say that your posts are becoming so convoluted and more and more like arcane mathematical puzzles that I for one cannot figure out for the life of me what is your viewpoint. I suppose this is worthy academic debate for its own sake but I am glad I don’t have to sit exams set by you.
Crackdown on Prachatai
This story seems to be taking a turn for the worse with the news that 9 new charges have been filed against Chiranuch, raising the maximum penalty she faces to 50 years, on a par with murderers and drug smugglers.
Campaigning more aggressively against the outrageous Computer Crimes Act promulgated by the Sarayudh government might be more fertile than campaigning against the LM laws in this environment, as the latter just hits a brick wall.
Back to normal?
I have not blogged on it yet, but if we are to believe the Thai Rath editorial group, this may just be a lull before a bigger storm.
http://www.thairath.co.th/news.php?section=politics03&content=133517
р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕б р╕Чр╕╡р╕бр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕Вр╕нр╕вр╣Йр╕│р╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╣Гр╕Щр╕Вр╕Ур╕░р╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╣Бр╕бр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕пр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕лр╕вр╕╕р╕Фр╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Ир╕ер╕▓р╕Ир╕ер╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕бр╣Зр╕нр╕Ър╣Ар╕кр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╣Бр╕Фр╕Зр╣Др╕зр╣Йр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Бр╣Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕лр╕вр╕╕р╕Фр╣Ар╕нр╕▓р╣Др╕зр╣Йр╕Кр╕▒р╣Ир╕зр╕Вр╕Ур╕░р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Бр╕Др╣Ир╕нр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕Зр╕Ър╕Кр╕▒р╣Ир╕зр╕Др╕гр╕▓р╕з р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕Яр╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╣Бр╕вр╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╕Бр╣Бр╕вр╕Бр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕бр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Фр╕▒р╕Ър╕бр╕нр╕Фр╕кр╕Щр╕┤р╕Чр╕ер╕З р╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕Зр╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕гр╕╕р╣Ир╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕Ыр╕░р╕Чр╕╕р╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕бр╕▓р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕нр╕╡р╕Бр╕Хр╕ер╕нр╕Фр╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕ер╕╕р╕Бр╣Вр╕Кр╕Щр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕Щр╣Бр╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕б
Back to normal?
Maybe just the red shirts showing their true colours. When so many are just goons for local godfathers don’t be surprised when things get ugly.
Crackdown on the reds?
“dat-ja-rit” is when :
many educated people (Plato case is not uncommon) claim or think that they are ‘democracy’ and ‘justice’ loving, but when the ‘demos’ (ordinary people) chose their own leader and insist on fighting for justice for him (becasue he was illegally, i.e. unjustly, removed), those same ‘democray-justice loving’ educated people then point the finger at the ‘demos’ and said ‘your claim to justice and democracy is not credible‘! and (acting pompously) “I therefore will not join you”
I ask : whose claim to justice and democracy is credible, the demos or the educated? and if this isn’t a classic case of ‘pretentiousness’ (dat-ja-rit), what is?
‘de-va-da’ is when :
educated people told the ‘demos’ : you won’t have me ‘on your side’ because your democracy-justice loveing credential is suspected because you choose to fight for leader of your choice (not mine).
It’s sad that these ‘de-va-da’ ‘dat-ja-rit’ can’t even see how pretentiou their stance is.