While I wouldn’t want to inflate the importance of Ji or the prospects for his movement, I would suggest that to dismiss his idea as “wishful thinking” is ahistorical, no matter how accurate the analysis.
Revolutions are born of “wishful thinking,” and revolutionaries are routinely derided and belittled.Even when they fail, some of their ideas that might once have been seen as radical can become part of the mainstream political agenda.
Very Interesting !I know little abt the PRC’s attitude towards Buddhism and find the compromise between religious and touristic purpose quite intriguing (although I do not really believe that bulding grand temple can really lead to a higher form of spirituality).
Jack,
Please put the You-Tube link for “Burma-country in conflict”.
Those of you visiting You-Tube can access this video by typing in the heading. Great video showing the KLNA at its best!!!
It’s a shame you have an opinion on something you know nothing about. To truly understand and make an intelligent comment, you need to look at all the events leading up to this point. Khun Aphisit is on the right track. He has Thailand’s best interest in mind. But in politics, you cannot do everything alone; especially are going to change the way things are in Thailand.
He is going up against a wall of corrupted and dishonest officials. Most of them are members of cabinets put in place since the Thaksin era. No one wants to get their hands dirty. But if your dog took a dump inside your house, you have to pick up the shit to clean up your place, right? Unfortunately, this house has too many dogs and too many piles of shit to pick up. Khun Aphisit will have to get his hands dirty. But to get it done a little faster, he will need all the help he can… even if they are from the military.
Portman: the FEER case needs a little more information than you provide. I am not convinced that there wasn’t pressure on Thaksin to push this case – I am sure that one or other of the FEER people involved could explain – but my memory is that the problem was commenting on the palace and some members of the royal family “dealing” with Thaksin. Not sure this is adequately summarised as “for publishing an article critical of Thaksin.” You might also recall that Giles has been teh subject of LM and defamation cases.
Thanks , Jack for setting the record straight, (when it come to the SPDC/DKBA), on the war being “over with” in Burma.
They would like for everyone to believe this big lie.
The Karen National Liberation Army continues to resist and as you say, if they ever decide to surrender, then all the sacrifices of their people will have been in vain.
The Thai government has prooven thru their complicity with the SPDC/DKBA that they can not ever be trusted.
As you and I observed, when we were both over in Burma last year, we had no trouble in our movements going in/out of Burma, but as you point out in your stupendous films ( which you have placed on You-Tube for all to view) , all that has greatly changed since late last year.
I do hope that your continuing efforts to carry the torch of freedom is a success and I ask everyone to view your movies on You-Tube. They are fantastic!
In response to a number of points above, including those by Phil Robertson, let’s be a bit more critical. Phil Robertson was often dressed in yellow over the past few years and has been supportive of state unions for many years, so is hardly likely that he will think that Giles has anything to say to Thais.
But his claim of marginalism and Giles as “gadfly” seem rather odd in the context of current events. We don’t know how many people have seen the Manifesto and we are not likely to know what people think about republicanism and mild socialism expressed there. However, it is interesting that websites for newspapers that show most reads had stories on Giles at the top for some time.
The government and the military seems to worry a lot about Giles and the reds. Are they wrong to be worried? Is Prem wrong to worry that the NE has become a “problem”?
PAD showed how to build a political programme based on being negative. Agreed, they did say what they wanted – love for the king and get rid of popular voting – but their campaign was essentially negative. This doesn’t excuse the reds from having to come up with a statement of the way forward, but with all of the undermining of TRT/PPP/PT, lese majeste charges, military suppression and so on, the reds lack a parliamentary focus. The palace has shown time and again that it fears the mobilisation of the masses, so they need to be careful.
On supporting Thaksin: it is clear that this is something that has resonance with a large number of people, so I doubt this shibboleth is going to be put away.
I have no way of answering David’s good question, but I wonder who could provide an answer? Are there any academics who are researching this issue or getting a feeling for red support in the countryside?
IMO, it is a shame for Oxford U. that such a villain like khun aphisit can openly propagate and justify the measures of the military in alliance with his “democratic party” to topple a government.
The PPT‘s made available a good deal of a 1977 issue of the Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars describing the events of October 1976. The piece by Puey Ungphakorn is particularly poignant.
The possibility of horrific, choreographed violence leaves me speechless.
I IMPRESS SIP SONG PAN NA WHEN I VISITED ON NOV.-DEC.2008 SUPPORT BUDGET BY T.A.T I HAD PERFORMANCE
IN JINGHONG CHAINGRUNG. AND SUCCEED IN PERFORMED’
I EVER WATCHING SHOW IN PARANASRI THEATER IT IS EXCELLENT SHOW ABOUT THE CULTURE OF ETHNICITY TAI
-LUE IN YUNNAN. I WIIL BACK AGAIN COMING SOON.
From what I saw and heard in Yasothon Province last week (passing by a UDD rally), it doesn’t seem like UDD politics in northeastern provinces are changing a whole lot. If there is a group moving towards a civil society alliance, I imagine that right now it’s limited to Bangkok.
What seems most interesting to me right now is the quiet expansion of Bhumjai Thai billboards and campaign posters in Isaan – more populism for the poor, anyone?
If the Thai military continues to strangle the KNLA supply lines, and puts money before morality, then maybe it is over.
But the KNLA has proven itself to be resilient in the face of adversity before. This latest development might just be what it needs to get back to its roots as a traditional guerrilla army.
Things don’t look good at the moment, but that might just change.
Apart from poor-insighted Pornpimol,the Nation seems to take the exact role, played by Bangkok Post in 1976. I’m afraid John Francis Lee’s nightmare is going to be true in a short foreseeable future. That’s really scary.
Call me pessimistic, if you like.
I was not going to post on this site any more but I just read the post by Hla Oo and I have to say he is wrong. The war is not over. It has entered into a new dimension. The KNLA is suffering and the SPDC is pushing hard to rid burma of them and the KNU as well many other ressitance groups. The KNLA and KNU have not given up completely and I think it would be doing all of those who have fought and died a terrible disservice to say it is all over and they dies for nothing.
If you are interested in the situation then you can watch these videos and many more like them to learn what is currently going o in Burma.
Take a look at the Free Burma Rangers website and check thier reports and you will see that is in no where near finished. A defeatist attitude will get you beat every time. Never surrender.
Scott, not sure if you’ve already left for Mae Sot, but a couple of quick bits of advice:
Even since the changes to Thai visa regulations in late 2008, I believe you can still get a 2 x 60 day tourist visa to enter Thailand if you apply ahead of time at their embassy in your country of residence. I got one in 3 days by applying in person in Stockholm. While, technically, you should have a volunteer visa if you want to help out with an NGO or whatnot, it’s difficult to enforce such a regulation and the Thai police would only do so if you cause problems.
As for your Thai language skills, these are useful. However, in Mae Sot many people estimate 70-80 percent of people are of Burmese origin, from different ethnic backgrounds including Karen, Shan, Karenni, and also many Burmans. The most useful language for you would probably be Burmese, as many/most of the migrants and refugees in Mae Sot and the camps can speak Burmese. The Karen make up the majority of refugees, so it would be useful to speak some basic Karen if you can, although there is not just one Karen language (Sgaw Karen seems to be the more common in Mae La camp, while I’m told Pwo Karen is more common in Nu Poh and Umpiem Mai, not sure about the accuracy of these statements though).
Things could surely get worse – especially if there’s a violent crackdown on the Reds who are being rallied by PMThaksin’s very frequent phone-ins in the past few weeks. However, as long as the the security forces are professionally trained this time round and properly equipped (e.g. no more Chinese-made tear gas-bombs), it may not be that bad.
Thank you very much for your insight into how this might play out, Sidh S. The 2006 coup was my first and the aftermath of that is bad enough for me. It’s radioactive half-life still seems to be on the order of a decade.
The ISOC also seems to be very much the sort of “secret police” and “death squad” detail that Thaksin unleashed when he made the part of the country I live in into a settle old scores, free-fire zone a few years ago. Although undoubtedly these troopers are more “professionally trained this time round”, that is cause for greater, not less alarm on my part.
Thaksin was “only” officially after some drug dealers. That’s not even a really serious crime when kept at “moderate” levels. The military and the police themselves engage in it during “normal” times.
It sounds as though they are going to bleed the nation of the “bad” element in order to return the nation to health and “purity”.
I hope this is just bluff talk, but it wasn’t bluff talk last time. And when they get the bit in their teeth organizations like the military don’t let up until they’ve so outraged and exhausted humanity that they simply cannot go on any longer.
Look at my country the United States of America. Two failed wars, millions dead, and a bankrupted nation later the charming man selling change we can believe in (he and Abhisit are twins, aren’t they?) is sitting atop the “gains” of one aggressive war and escalating the other while the Treasury burns.
Just because the pilots in the cabin of the US’ airline are bent on flying their plane into the ground doesn’t mean that Thailand has to follow.
What’s at stake from the belligerents’ side, really? A few more years of the “good” life before they have to accept the consequences of their long run of missteps no matter they want to or not. They’d sooner push down the pillars holding up the temple than accept the really rather meager changes that would allow everyone to muddle through.
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UDD – where to?
While I wouldn’t want to inflate the importance of Ji or the prospects for his movement, I would suggest that to dismiss his idea as “wishful thinking” is ahistorical, no matter how accurate the analysis.
Revolutions are born of “wishful thinking,” and revolutionaries are routinely derided and belittled.Even when they fail, some of their ideas that might once have been seen as radical can become part of the mainstream political agenda.
Wat Luang Sipsongpanna
Very Interesting !I know little abt the PRC’s attitude towards Buddhism and find the compromise between religious and touristic purpose quite intriguing (although I do not really believe that bulding grand temple can really lead to a higher form of spirituality).
Rambo and the real war in Burma
Jack,
Please put the You-Tube link for “Burma-country in conflict”.
Those of you visiting You-Tube can access this video by typing in the heading. Great video showing the KLNA at its best!!!
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 1
It is hard to imagine any move growing out of the red shirts to reform these laws
…..except when it suits their political agenda.
Full text of Abhisit speech in Oxford
Re: Jessie,
It’s a shame you have an opinion on something you know nothing about. To truly understand and make an intelligent comment, you need to look at all the events leading up to this point. Khun Aphisit is on the right track. He has Thailand’s best interest in mind. But in politics, you cannot do everything alone; especially are going to change the way things are in Thailand.
He is going up against a wall of corrupted and dishonest officials. Most of them are members of cabinets put in place since the Thaksin era. No one wants to get their hands dirty. But if your dog took a dump inside your house, you have to pick up the shit to clean up your place, right? Unfortunately, this house has too many dogs and too many piles of shit to pick up. Khun Aphisit will have to get his hands dirty. But to get it done a little faster, he will need all the help he can… even if they are from the military.
Special interview: Giles Ungpakorn, part 1
Portman: the FEER case needs a little more information than you provide. I am not convinced that there wasn’t pressure on Thaksin to push this case – I am sure that one or other of the FEER people involved could explain – but my memory is that the problem was commenting on the palace and some members of the royal family “dealing” with Thaksin. Not sure this is adequately summarised as “for publishing an article critical of Thaksin.” You might also recall that Giles has been teh subject of LM and defamation cases.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
VDO Free Burma’s Political Prisoners Now!
http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/vdo-free-burmas-political-prisoners-now/
please sign the petition on http://www.aappb.org/
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Jacob’s Well Church – Hope for the KaRen / Burma Struggle-VDO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f5UoeLAMm0&feature=channel_page
Rambo and the real war in Burma
Thanks , Jack for setting the record straight, (when it come to the SPDC/DKBA), on the war being “over with” in Burma.
They would like for everyone to believe this big lie.
The Karen National Liberation Army continues to resist and as you say, if they ever decide to surrender, then all the sacrifices of their people will have been in vain.
The Thai government has prooven thru their complicity with the SPDC/DKBA that they can not ever be trusted.
As you and I observed, when we were both over in Burma last year, we had no trouble in our movements going in/out of Burma, but as you point out in your stupendous films ( which you have placed on You-Tube for all to view) , all that has greatly changed since late last year.
I do hope that your continuing efforts to carry the torch of freedom is a success and I ask everyone to view your movies on You-Tube. They are fantastic!
UDD – where to?
In response to a number of points above, including those by Phil Robertson, let’s be a bit more critical. Phil Robertson was often dressed in yellow over the past few years and has been supportive of state unions for many years, so is hardly likely that he will think that Giles has anything to say to Thais.
But his claim of marginalism and Giles as “gadfly” seem rather odd in the context of current events. We don’t know how many people have seen the Manifesto and we are not likely to know what people think about republicanism and mild socialism expressed there. However, it is interesting that websites for newspapers that show most reads had stories on Giles at the top for some time.
The government and the military seems to worry a lot about Giles and the reds. Are they wrong to be worried? Is Prem wrong to worry that the NE has become a “problem”?
PAD showed how to build a political programme based on being negative. Agreed, they did say what they wanted – love for the king and get rid of popular voting – but their campaign was essentially negative. This doesn’t excuse the reds from having to come up with a statement of the way forward, but with all of the undermining of TRT/PPP/PT, lese majeste charges, military suppression and so on, the reds lack a parliamentary focus. The palace has shown time and again that it fears the mobilisation of the masses, so they need to be careful.
On supporting Thaksin: it is clear that this is something that has resonance with a large number of people, so I doubt this shibboleth is going to be put away.
I have no way of answering David’s good question, but I wonder who could provide an answer? Are there any academics who are researching this issue or getting a feeling for red support in the countryside?
Full text of Abhisit speech in Oxford
IMO, it is a shame for Oxford U. that such a villain like khun aphisit can openly propagate and justify the measures of the military in alliance with his “democratic party” to topple a government.
The Ivory Tower, democracy and all that jazz
The PPT‘s made available a good deal of a 1977 issue of the Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars describing the events of October 1976. The piece by Puey Ungphakorn is particularly poignant.
The possibility of horrific, choreographed violence leaves me speechless.
Wat Luang Sipsongpanna
THE MYSTRY TEMPLE ON THE HILL
I SURPRISED IN BUILDING WHO IS PRATONAGE?
The loveable Lue
I IMPRESS SIP SONG PAN NA WHEN I VISITED ON NOV.-DEC.2008 SUPPORT BUDGET BY T.A.T I HAD PERFORMANCE
IN JINGHONG CHAINGRUNG. AND SUCCEED IN PERFORMED’
I EVER WATCHING SHOW IN PARANASRI THEATER IT IS EXCELLENT SHOW ABOUT THE CULTURE OF ETHNICITY TAI
-LUE IN YUNNAN. I WIIL BACK AGAIN COMING SOON.
UDD – where to?
From what I saw and heard in Yasothon Province last week (passing by a UDD rally), it doesn’t seem like UDD politics in northeastern provinces are changing a whole lot. If there is a group moving towards a civil society alliance, I imagine that right now it’s limited to Bangkok.
What seems most interesting to me right now is the quiet expansion of Bhumjai Thai billboards and campaign posters in Isaan – more populism for the poor, anyone?
Rambo and the real war in Burma
Hla Oo,
If the Thai military continues to strangle the KNLA supply lines, and puts money before morality, then maybe it is over.
But the KNLA has proven itself to be resilient in the face of adversity before. This latest development might just be what it needs to get back to its roots as a traditional guerrilla army.
Things don’t look good at the moment, but that might just change.
The Ivory Tower, democracy and all that jazz
Apart from poor-insighted Pornpimol,the Nation seems to take the exact role, played by Bangkok Post in 1976. I’m afraid John Francis Lee’s nightmare is going to be true in a short foreseeable future. That’s really scary.
Call me pessimistic, if you like.
Rambo and the real war in Burma
I was not going to post on this site any more but I just read the post by Hla Oo and I have to say he is wrong. The war is not over. It has entered into a new dimension. The KNLA is suffering and the SPDC is pushing hard to rid burma of them and the KNU as well many other ressitance groups. The KNLA and KNU have not given up completely and I think it would be doing all of those who have fought and died a terrible disservice to say it is all over and they dies for nothing.
If you are interested in the situation then you can watch these videos and many more like them to learn what is currently going o in Burma.
Take a look at the Free Burma Rangers website and check thier reports and you will see that is in no where near finished. A defeatist attitude will get you beat every time. Never surrender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-U1zqEhozM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DVnC6PEdYs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y02TyaP6Qy0
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Scott, not sure if you’ve already left for Mae Sot, but a couple of quick bits of advice:
Even since the changes to Thai visa regulations in late 2008, I believe you can still get a 2 x 60 day tourist visa to enter Thailand if you apply ahead of time at their embassy in your country of residence. I got one in 3 days by applying in person in Stockholm. While, technically, you should have a volunteer visa if you want to help out with an NGO or whatnot, it’s difficult to enforce such a regulation and the Thai police would only do so if you cause problems.
As for your Thai language skills, these are useful. However, in Mae Sot many people estimate 70-80 percent of people are of Burmese origin, from different ethnic backgrounds including Karen, Shan, Karenni, and also many Burmans. The most useful language for you would probably be Burmese, as many/most of the migrants and refugees in Mae Sot and the camps can speak Burmese. The Karen make up the majority of refugees, so it would be useful to speak some basic Karen if you can, although there is not just one Karen language (Sgaw Karen seems to be the more common in Mae La camp, while I’m told Pwo Karen is more common in Nu Poh and Umpiem Mai, not sure about the accuracy of these statements though).
The Ivory Tower, democracy and all that jazz
Things could surely get worse – especially if there’s a violent crackdown on the Reds who are being rallied by PMThaksin’s very frequent phone-ins in the past few weeks. However, as long as the the security forces are professionally trained this time round and properly equipped (e.g. no more Chinese-made tear gas-bombs), it may not be that bad.
Thank you very much for your insight into how this might play out, Sidh S. The 2006 coup was my first and the aftermath of that is bad enough for me. It’s radioactive half-life still seems to be on the order of a decade.
The ISOC also seems to be very much the sort of “secret police” and “death squad” detail that Thaksin unleashed when he made the part of the country I live in into a settle old scores, free-fire zone a few years ago. Although undoubtedly these troopers are more “professionally trained this time round”, that is cause for greater, not less alarm on my part.
Thaksin was “only” officially after some drug dealers. That’s not even a really serious crime when kept at “moderate” levels. The military and the police themselves engage in it during “normal” times.
But a conspiracy aimed at overthrowing the government, the army leadership and important institutions in the country is the kind of thing that really “justifies” going over the top.
It sounds as though they are going to bleed the nation of the “bad” element in order to return the nation to health and “purity”.
I hope this is just bluff talk, but it wasn’t bluff talk last time. And when they get the bit in their teeth organizations like the military don’t let up until they’ve so outraged and exhausted humanity that they simply cannot go on any longer.
Look at my country the United States of America. Two failed wars, millions dead, and a bankrupted nation later the charming man selling change we can believe in (he and Abhisit are twins, aren’t they?) is sitting atop the “gains” of one aggressive war and escalating the other while the Treasury burns.
Just because the pilots in the cabin of the US’ airline are bent on flying their plane into the ground doesn’t mean that Thailand has to follow.
What’s at stake from the belligerents’ side, really? A few more years of the “good” life before they have to accept the consequences of their long run of missteps no matter they want to or not. They’d sooner push down the pillars holding up the temple than accept the really rather meager changes that would allow everyone to muddle through.
That’s what I’m afraid is going to happen.