I agree with nganadeeleg about LM as I have discussed since the beginning.
I am not quite sure that said something about other private life and rumor is not defamed other. It look like he want to be a gossip journalist that usually unethical involve with celebrity’s life and will anyone OK that head of state have been rumored like some country.
Crawing on the floor is the same practice in some house to the head of the house or elderly even in the chinese culture that Thais are base on, so it is no any resistance to do that and it is easily accepted.
About the culture, I have already mention in the pevious comment.
I totally agree with Nganadeeleg’s proposal regarding the change that only the palace can make the charge against the person they feel has insulted them. I don’t think it’s possible to abolish LM law at the moment.
Thanks, Lee, for your clarification, and thanks to Prasit and Yudhisathira for providing in-depth details abt the structure of the Thai health care system.
In other words, culture difference should not be judge inferior or superior.
There is more things to discuss about LM and he and also Lee didn’t attempt to lead the talk in the track as the title announced.
“In my opinion, the best hospitals in a good country should be the public ones (the same should be true with schools and university), so as to give everyone a chance to be treated seriously, in case of serious illnesses.It’s a long and winding road, I know, but if they achieved something quite close to that even in communist, dilapidated Cuba, why can’t comparatively rich Thailand make it too?”
Not only Thailand, Alex, but also most of the first world, including USA!
As for inferior or superior cultures, I think the main issue Giles had was the practice of crawling – for those of us who think all men are (or should be) created equal, it is very hard to accept such practices.
Also in defence of Giles he did not run down Thai culture in general, and made specific mention of positives such as how the young and elderly are treated in Thailand.
As for Giles discussion of a particular person’s private life and rumors and photo’s – I din’t think it was intended as an insult, but rather to highlight the difference between the public propoganda and the private reality.
As for LM, I still think a reasonable compromise, instead of abolishment (which is too divisive), would be to make changes to the law to limit who can make the charge – preferably only the palace.
Thanks lee
“and said something quite incidental about Thais not holding doors open for each other” that is not true as I have discussed.
So it is not quite a rational discussion and the judgement for any culture superior or inferior (so Amberwave will clearly understand now what was going on in the talk) should not be encourage in academic discussion as equal as nationality that yellow shirt man raised.
The father of modern medicine is His royal highness prince songhla. He is the son of King Rama the fifth and the father of King Bhumipol.
He studied medicine at harvards university and after that he went back to be the honorary lecture at Siriraj Hospital.
With collaboration of Rockey Fellor Foundation, he can reorganize and improve the syllabus for medical training and change Thai medical service into modern medicine.
Princess mother is his wife was the professional nurse and after his son crowned to be the king, she founded the Princess mother medical volunteer to help people in the far out reach of our country for more than forty years.
Prasit/ Joy: Giles did criticise some aspects of Thai culture. But he did not say Thai culture was “inferior” to “his” British culture tout court. That is, (a) he never said he was not Thai – quite the opposite – this is a slur applied to him by his political opponents, a very tiresome way the right has always tried to discredit the left by associating its representatives with alien forces; (b) he said some aspects of Thai culture were superior to British culture and vice-versa. For example, he praised the way Thai people look after their elderly parents, but he criticised the hierarchical system of Thai manners that emphasises deference to the “big people”, and said something quite incidental about Thais not holding doors open for each other. So let’s be clear about exactly what was said, and what was not said, Prasit. That’s the only basis for a rational discussion.
BTW, the moderators might think about recruiting a bit of extra help to cut down the 12hr time lags between comments being submitted and approved.
The farthest out reach areas are covered by Volunteer doctor projects under the King Mother or PRincess mother medical volunteer.
The best three university hospital are heavily support by the charities as described before.
There are many more hospitals using the name of crown prince and King sister for establish.
Life for life foundation for epilepsy (LIFE) under the royal patronage of HRH Princess Chulabhorn.
Kidney disease foundation of Thailand under the royal patronage of HRH PRincess Kalyaniwattana.
And so on.
Regarding Giles’ attitude abt Thai culture or way of life, I don’t recall any insults that he intends at Thai culture. I only remember him praising a number of Thai students he met/taught at Chula as intelligent and enthusiastic to learn. Compliments or priases about one’s culture are often embraced by most locals but criticisms are often met with hostility, even if they are highly constructive.
Concerning, Thai people being polite and having good manners, I think this is partly true and in fact they don’t even have to be ‘well-educated’ to be so. However, it is not easy to judge whether this or that individual has good or bad manner because things like manner are culturally specific, and i don’t recall Giles being judgemental reagrding this issue.
The cliche abt Thai people being ‘polite and good mannered’ takes an ironic turn when one takes a quick look at mainstream Thai sites or blogs or forums and notice the violence, sexism and racism embedded in the language used by so many Thais (who also see themselves as ‘well-educated’).
As an ordinary Thai citizen, I think amberwave’s questions are crucial and if we could get answers to them, it would be lovely. However, I’m sure that if this is a mainstream Thai site, simply asking these questions will lead to one’s access to the site being banned or worse, being condemned as a traitor and ungrateful, or even worse being sued for insulting ‘the institution’.
Mainstream Thai sites allows no room for such a discussion.
I also agree with Alex (the poster above me) that a citizen has a ‘right’ to access proper healthcare service and why should s/he has to rely on charity?? Charity is a great thing alright, but when one has to depend on it in time of illness, I think it is not quite right at all.
Thanks Alex,
Yes for the private hospital doctors as you have mentioned, it is called defensive medicine which are quite popular in US where doctors are the most liable to the lawsuit.
I am not agree with that practice though because it usually lead to over investigate, over prescribe like your exmaple.
I think one of the problem in practice is the patients are not always educate about that enough to understand and sometime they push the doctors to give them the drugs they should not ge given like antibiotics. These situations are not limited to Thailand which creates antibiotic resistance bacteria spreading around the world.
You might have to notice that in Thailand, three biggest university hospital are heavily support with charity activities especially under the royal patronage of the King and family. Chulalongkorn university under the Thai red cross society which HM the Queen is the president, Siriraj Hospital which King Rama V built and is the first medical school in Thailand, and Ramathibodhi hospital which now gathering money for the excellence centre under the name of HRH Princess maha jakri sirinthorn.
DoctorJ and others: My blog is mainly about teaching in Bangkok but I was present for the conference at the FCCT and did a bit of a “liveblog”from the couch (yes, there is a couch there, and I had it all to myself). I still need to go in and edit it for quality but it’s on there now and may give you some sense of what was being talked about. Of course it’s all filtered through my iffy brain and unsteady hands but there’s hope yet. Here: TEFLsphere.blogspot.com
Have a look. Personally I thought both Dr. Thongchai and Andrew Walker came across as extremely knowledgeable, sincere, and capable people who clearly care deeply for Thailand and are doing something brave, commendable, and necessary for this country. Great work, guys. Here’s hoping for the best for Thailand, the Thai people, and those of us who love this country and choose to make it our home.
Hi everyone, I’m back from the hospital (in my country, Italy, where the public system is slowly being “sold out”), and I must say that the level, at least here in the north-east, is still very high. About Thailand, I found Yudhisathira’ comment really elucidating. Those are things I was vaguely aware of, and some I could just guess but I wasn’t sure. For example, whereas I agree that Bangkok’s private hospitals offer great premises and often well-prepared English speaking staff, I can’t help opposing – very radically – this common practice that doctors from private hospitals have: forcing the patients to buy medications/drugs at the ultra-overpriced hospital’s pharmacy. It’s obvious they get commissions on them, so it’s also obvious that some of them will tend to give you drugs you don’t need. Mostly, they’ll give you paracetamol (although you have tons of boxes waiting to be used at home), which is annoying but not dangerous, but sometimes they’ll go as far as to give you antibiotics to cure a viral sickness (now, although I’m not a doctor, I know that’s WRONG). My point here is: I prefer a higher doctor’s fee and no stupid unneeded drugs. How unprofessional is that! I would like to hear Prasit’s ideas about this too.
About what Prasit wrote on charity: we all agree charity is a good thing, of course, but are we sure that a country should – albeit only partially – rely on charity to deal with seminal issues as public health? In my opinion, the best hospitals in a good country should be the public ones (the same should be true with schools and university), so as to give everyone a chance to be treated seriously, in case of serious illnesses. It’s a long and winding road, I know, but if they achieved something quite close to that even in communist, dilapidated Cuba, why can’t comparatively rich Thailand make it too?
Amberwaves:
“However, a specialist at the Royal Thai Police’s Scientific Crime Detection Division, speaking on condition of anonymity, affirmed that the components of a C4 bomb were found on the brassiere and Tshirt worn by Angkhana at the time of her death, which were not components of tear gas.”
Pressure mounts on KNU to move out of Thailand: Sources
New Delhi (Mizzima) – Members of the ethnic Karen rebel group – Karen National Union – have began moving back into Burma, after Thailand warned them not to set up base in their territory, a source close to the rebel group said.
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Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
I agree with nganadeeleg about LM as I have discussed since the beginning.
I am not quite sure that said something about other private life and rumor is not defamed other. It look like he want to be a gossip journalist that usually unethical involve with celebrity’s life and will anyone OK that head of state have been rumored like some country.
Crawing on the floor is the same practice in some house to the head of the house or elderly even in the chinese culture that Thais are base on, so it is no any resistance to do that and it is easily accepted.
About the culture, I have already mention in the pevious comment.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
I totally agree with Nganadeeleg’s proposal regarding the change that only the palace can make the charge against the person they feel has insulted them. I don’t think it’s possible to abolish LM law at the moment.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Thanks, Lee, for your clarification, and thanks to Prasit and Yudhisathira for providing in-depth details abt the structure of the Thai health care system.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
In other words, culture difference should not be judge inferior or superior.
There is more things to discuss about LM and he and also Lee didn’t attempt to lead the talk in the track as the title announced.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
“In my opinion, the best hospitals in a good country should be the public ones (the same should be true with schools and university), so as to give everyone a chance to be treated seriously, in case of serious illnesses.It’s a long and winding road, I know, but if they achieved something quite close to that even in communist, dilapidated Cuba, why can’t comparatively rich Thailand make it too?”
Not only Thailand, Alex, but also most of the first world, including USA!
As for inferior or superior cultures, I think the main issue Giles had was the practice of crawling – for those of us who think all men are (or should be) created equal, it is very hard to accept such practices.
Also in defence of Giles he did not run down Thai culture in general, and made specific mention of positives such as how the young and elderly are treated in Thailand.
As for Giles discussion of a particular person’s private life and rumors and photo’s – I din’t think it was intended as an insult, but rather to highlight the difference between the public propoganda and the private reality.
As for LM, I still think a reasonable compromise, instead of abolishment (which is too divisive), would be to make changes to the law to limit who can make the charge – preferably only the palace.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Thanks lee
“and said something quite incidental about Thais not holding doors open for each other” that is not true as I have discussed.
So it is not quite a rational discussion and the judgement for any culture superior or inferior (so Amberwave will clearly understand now what was going on in the talk) should not be encourage in academic discussion as equal as nationality that yellow shirt man raised.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Again I will say it again Fung mai Dai Sub Jub Ma Kra Deard for the one who did not listen to the audio from Jiles last talk yet.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
The father of modern medicine is His royal highness prince songhla. He is the son of King Rama the fifth and the father of King Bhumipol.
He studied medicine at harvards university and after that he went back to be the honorary lecture at Siriraj Hospital.
With collaboration of Rockey Fellor Foundation, he can reorganize and improve the syllabus for medical training and change Thai medical service into modern medicine.
Princess mother is his wife was the professional nurse and after his son crowned to be the king, she founded the Princess mother medical volunteer to help people in the far out reach of our country for more than forty years.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Prasit/ Joy: Giles did criticise some aspects of Thai culture. But he did not say Thai culture was “inferior” to “his” British culture tout court. That is, (a) he never said he was not Thai – quite the opposite – this is a slur applied to him by his political opponents, a very tiresome way the right has always tried to discredit the left by associating its representatives with alien forces; (b) he said some aspects of Thai culture were superior to British culture and vice-versa. For example, he praised the way Thai people look after their elderly parents, but he criticised the hierarchical system of Thai manners that emphasises deference to the “big people”, and said something quite incidental about Thais not holding doors open for each other. So let’s be clear about exactly what was said, and what was not said, Prasit. That’s the only basis for a rational discussion.
BTW, the moderators might think about recruiting a bit of extra help to cut down the 12hr time lags between comments being submitted and approved.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
To expand the idea,
The farthest out reach areas are covered by Volunteer doctor projects under the King Mother or PRincess mother medical volunteer.
The best three university hospital are heavily support by the charities as described before.
There are many more hospitals using the name of crown prince and King sister for establish.
Life for life foundation for epilepsy (LIFE) under the royal patronage of HRH Princess Chulabhorn.
Kidney disease foundation of Thailand under the royal patronage of HRH PRincess Kalyaniwattana.
And so on.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Unfortunately, Thai health care system really depends on charity.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Regarding Giles’ attitude abt Thai culture or way of life, I don’t recall any insults that he intends at Thai culture. I only remember him praising a number of Thai students he met/taught at Chula as intelligent and enthusiastic to learn. Compliments or priases about one’s culture are often embraced by most locals but criticisms are often met with hostility, even if they are highly constructive.
Concerning, Thai people being polite and having good manners, I think this is partly true and in fact they don’t even have to be ‘well-educated’ to be so. However, it is not easy to judge whether this or that individual has good or bad manner because things like manner are culturally specific, and i don’t recall Giles being judgemental reagrding this issue.
The cliche abt Thai people being ‘polite and good mannered’ takes an ironic turn when one takes a quick look at mainstream Thai sites or blogs or forums and notice the violence, sexism and racism embedded in the language used by so many Thais (who also see themselves as ‘well-educated’).
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
As an ordinary Thai citizen, I think amberwave’s questions are crucial and if we could get answers to them, it would be lovely. However, I’m sure that if this is a mainstream Thai site, simply asking these questions will lead to one’s access to the site being banned or worse, being condemned as a traitor and ungrateful, or even worse being sued for insulting ‘the institution’.
Mainstream Thai sites allows no room for such a discussion.
I also agree with Alex (the poster above me) that a citizen has a ‘right’ to access proper healthcare service and why should s/he has to rely on charity?? Charity is a great thing alright, but when one has to depend on it in time of illness, I think it is not quite right at all.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Thanks Alex,
Yes for the private hospital doctors as you have mentioned, it is called defensive medicine which are quite popular in US where doctors are the most liable to the lawsuit.
I am not agree with that practice though because it usually lead to over investigate, over prescribe like your exmaple.
I think one of the problem in practice is the patients are not always educate about that enough to understand and sometime they push the doctors to give them the drugs they should not ge given like antibiotics. These situations are not limited to Thailand which creates antibiotic resistance bacteria spreading around the world.
You might have to notice that in Thailand, three biggest university hospital are heavily support with charity activities especially under the royal patronage of the King and family. Chulalongkorn university under the Thai red cross society which HM the Queen is the president, Siriraj Hospital which King Rama V built and is the first medical school in Thailand, and Ramathibodhi hospital which now gathering money for the excellence centre under the name of HRH Princess maha jakri sirinthorn.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
DoctorJ and others: My blog is mainly about teaching in Bangkok but I was present for the conference at the FCCT and did a bit of a “liveblog”from the couch (yes, there is a couch there, and I had it all to myself). I still need to go in and edit it for quality but it’s on there now and may give you some sense of what was being talked about. Of course it’s all filtered through my iffy brain and unsteady hands but there’s hope yet. Here: TEFLsphere.blogspot.com
Have a look. Personally I thought both Dr. Thongchai and Andrew Walker came across as extremely knowledgeable, sincere, and capable people who clearly care deeply for Thailand and are doing something brave, commendable, and necessary for this country. Great work, guys. Here’s hoping for the best for Thailand, the Thai people, and those of us who love this country and choose to make it our home.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Hi everyone, I’m back from the hospital (in my country, Italy, where the public system is slowly being “sold out”), and I must say that the level, at least here in the north-east, is still very high. About Thailand, I found Yudhisathira’ comment really elucidating. Those are things I was vaguely aware of, and some I could just guess but I wasn’t sure. For example, whereas I agree that Bangkok’s private hospitals offer great premises and often well-prepared English speaking staff, I can’t help opposing – very radically – this common practice that doctors from private hospitals have: forcing the patients to buy medications/drugs at the ultra-overpriced hospital’s pharmacy. It’s obvious they get commissions on them, so it’s also obvious that some of them will tend to give you drugs you don’t need. Mostly, they’ll give you paracetamol (although you have tons of boxes waiting to be used at home), which is annoying but not dangerous, but sometimes they’ll go as far as to give you antibiotics to cure a viral sickness (now, although I’m not a doctor, I know that’s WRONG). My point here is: I prefer a higher doctor’s fee and no stupid unneeded drugs. How unprofessional is that! I would like to hear Prasit’s ideas about this too.
About what Prasit wrote on charity: we all agree charity is a good thing, of course, but are we sure that a country should – albeit only partially – rely on charity to deal with seminal issues as public health? In my opinion, the best hospitals in a good country should be the public ones (the same should be true with schools and university), so as to give everyone a chance to be treated seriously, in case of serious illnesses. It’s a long and winding road, I know, but if they achieved something quite close to that even in communist, dilapidated Cuba, why can’t comparatively rich Thailand make it too?
What happened on 7/10/2008?
Amberwaves:
“However, a specialist at the Royal Thai Police’s Scientific Crime Detection Division, speaking on condition of anonymity, affirmed that the components of a C4 bomb were found on the brassiere and Tshirt worn by Angkhana at the time of her death, which were not components of tear gas.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30096743&keyword=Angkhana+Radabpanyawoot
Thailand: Love it or leave it
You give us hope, Dhammanusari!
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
hope the government won’t just turn this list into a ‘forbidden to enter thailand’ list
Karen Colonel reportedly out on bail
Pressure mounts on KNU to move out of Thailand: Sources
New Delhi (Mizzima) – Members of the ethnic Karen rebel group – Karen National Union – have began moving back into Burma, after Thailand warned them not to set up base in their territory, a source close to the rebel group said.
The source, who did not want to be named, said KNU leaders had recently been told by Thai military authorities in the border town of Mea Sot, to move out of the town and to avoid Thailand’s territory for their activities.
http://www.mizzima.com/news/regional/1802-pressure-mounts-on-knu-to-move-out-of-thailand-sources.html