From: “Tulu Patnaik”
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:05 PM
To: “New Mandala”
Subject: Re: [New Mandala] New Comment On: The Stilwell Road
> Dear Hla Oo,
> I will upload the film on my facebook profile in a week’s time. Till then
> onli
> I have copies. In case you are interested I could have it couriered to
> you. It
> is in the VCD and DVd formats.
> Even when we travelled from Mytikina to Bhamo and onwards to Lashio a lot
> of
> the area was under the Kachin Independance Army. We were made to
> understand
> that the Myanmar Govt and KIA had an informal understanding of not
> interfering
> with each other.
> Could you give me a bit of your background.
> Tulu Patnaik
Dear Khine,
> As I had written earlier we were not given permission to travel west
> beyond
> Mytikina, we were told that the road was not traversable and that a number
> of
> culverts had broken and not repaired.
> Yes, we ( our team of three, myself, and assisitant director and the
> cameraperson) too had a lot of difficulty in getting the required
> permissions
> for travel from Mytikina to Lashio. The Myanmar Embassy in New Delhi after
> meeting us twice over two months refused permission. The Indian Embassy in
> Yangon also said they could not help. In fact at one point of time we
> almost
> gave up as no reasons were given for rejections and that too after months.
> Finally as luck would have it we went through a Yangon based travel agent
> who
> arranged for and got the permissions.
> But a representative of the government travelled with us the entire
> distance
> and kept track. Further all the footage was copied and given to some
> government authority.
> But the positives were that the landscape from Mytikina to Lashio was
> incredibly beautiful with dense forests etc. But the road was in very bad
> shape. There was tremendous poverty and there didn’t seem to be much
> development in these areas. But then this an eight year old observation.
> Tulu Patnaik
>
>
For those that are politically active and wish to support true representative democracy in Thailsnd the manifesto is an excellent statement. It gives good and strong background for anyone wishing to understand the basis for the issues of social inequality and the undemocratic and unrepresentative nature of most Thai governments.
However, given the intensive PR surrounding the royals, I think many Thais will find the references to the history of royal political involvement shocking and hard for them to assimilate and accept.
This will make it difficult for these people to focus on the real vision of the manifesto.
Further, unfortunately, I think the military and elites will use these references to attack the vision and, worse, anyone associated with the manifesto and Giles.
I have a question for Chris, David Brown, and Sam Brother.
Who is responsible for the way Thailand is right now? Is Australia in part responsible for the way the situation is right now?
I mean after World War II, the Allied inside Thailand has been completely destroyed. The latest is Giles Ji Ungpakorn.
Meanwhile, the Axis is here 24/7 like Srithanonchai, Teerachai, Ralph, etc. The Thai media is dominated by the Axis i.e. The Manager, The Nation, Kom Chad Luek, The Bangkok Post, etc. The academics in Thailand and Australia are dominated by the Axis like ChaiAnan Samudvanit, Michael Conners, etc.
I think it is time to reform the Australian Intelligence. What do you think?
Your comment about school reform made me think of the following quote from Johann Gottlieb Fitche. Commenting on the purpose of the Prussian government-sponsored education system, he wrote “The schools must fashion the person, and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will.”
To answer your question, as you may know, for the past year my professional life was basically put on hold as I dealt with my daughter’s illness and things are just starting to settle down now. As such, the original scope of my paper, a full examination of Thai sociopedagogy from the insitutional level to all the way on down to the individual, is just too ambitious for me to pursue at the moment. I have chosen to focus on just comparing American and Thai classroom practice, classroom environment, classroom management, and student/teacher expectations. Then I will attempt to connect such practices to cultural values and beliefs. I am now working on constructing an instrument that will allow me to do that.
If all goes well, it should be ready to present by TESOL 2010.
One question that I have never really understood. There appear to be no copies of The Devil’s Discus in thai that are complete including the first 16 pages. Why has no-one ever thought of translating these pages again and adding them to the incomplete copies that exist, at least the pdf versions?
The Prachatipat Party (Their English name is Democrat, but they’re truely group of royalist and right wing businessmen), and the army are preparing to arrest Giles Ungparkorn while he reports himself to the police and jail him for questioning. He’s been informed before hand by those officers who disagree with this lousy policy. The same inform source has also indicated that Jakrapob Penkhae will be the coming victim soon.
Well, Teeranai, if Chula has no commitment to academic freedom and is completely unwilling to defend its own faculty’s right to academic freedom, then I guess Chula is not really the “Harvard of Thailand” after all.
I find it almost impossible to believe that a people so intelligent, worldly and historically inter-connected as the Thai people, would really have any interest or desire whatsoever in following the path of the pathetic, isolated, impoverished and failed nation of North Korea in becoming a fearful, informant-centric society where idiosyncratic, creative, curious individuals with robust and free opinions and views, and a sense of their own individual rights are no longer valued.
Reporters Without Borders have called for a cyber-demonstration on 9 February to call for the release of Harry Nicolaides. The cyber-demonstration link is at the RWB site – http://www.rsf.org/freeharry/index.php?id=21
Srithanonchai should tell us more about Chula. Why do his colleagues want him out?
On whether he is a leading academic, that is a matter of judgment. Measured against others in the same department at Chula, he looks reasonably good in terms of publications. But, then, maybe that is not a great department? In my view, while I disagree with many of his perceptions and his analysis, I value his work. He certainly ranks up there with other Thai intellectuals for his capacity to bring important issues into the public arena.
Coincidentally, Reporters Without Borders released a report entitled “His Untouchable Majesty”. Can be downloaded from their site. They have also called for a cyber-demonstration on 9 February to call for the release of Harry Nicolaides. The cyberdemonstration link is at the RWB site – http://www.rsf.org/freeharry/index.php?id=21
‘However, it is also clear that the Thai King is more comfortable with military dictatorships than with elected governments. This explains why the Monarchy backed the 19th September coup.’
would likely be one of the more offensive sections of Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s eight paragraphs under scrutiny.
I think I should say something in the name of not knowing, and then writing something as though you do know certainly. It’s done all the time – why do people do it? Is it for the glamour of being creative, highly intelligent and traditionally free? Being renowned as a leading academic? Surely leading academics don’t make things up. Creative, highly intelligent people don’t need to become vain martyrs for Thai civil liberties because they’re highly intelligent and would have thought of more creative ways to undermine the status-quo if that was their aim. Perhaps people who are ‘traditionally free’ don’t care too much about what others are doing to get caught up in this drama?
Nothing is clear. Is Giles Ji Ungpakorn now a figure for provocative assumptions kicking against a conservative beast? Is the use of Lese Majeste against him a measure for truth in his assumptions? Maybe he wanted to spend time in England for a while and had booked the flight well in advance? In the same vogue as Giles, I assume draconian Lese Majeste laws will never be challenged by Thais discussing his effigy.
Ms. Da Torpedo, Jakrapob Penkair, and Giles Ji Ungpakorn, have two characteristics in common. They have knowledge deeper than average Thais about Thai politics and are very passionate about moving Thai society toward progress. Their intention and ability have made them leaders in their own right.
When I listened to Da Torpedo I was stunned about the detailed knowledge she has about Thai political history from 1932 to present. When I read Jakrapob’s paper, I appreciated his search to understand the historical context and an attempt to analyze the root cause of its underdevelopment. When I read Giles Ji’s papers, I admired the depth and breath of his analysis, the creativity and the heavy-weight of his intellect. Their standards motivate me to upgrade myself. Indeed, they are the treasure of Siam.
As for Harry’s book, I think his bonding to Thai society must have motivated his desire to contribute to its progress. It is unconscionable to hold him in Thai prison for his divine gift of reasoning.
Reading Ji’s farewell to Thailand – his ‘Red Siam’ manifesto (available at http://thaipoliticalprisoners.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/red-siam2.pdf) – I don’t regard his views as ‘too far leftist’. To the contrary, he remains realistic and admits that, if at all, a socialist society can only be a long-term goal and that, for the time being, a common platform has to be build on the following goals:
1. We must have freedom of expression and the freedom to choose our own
government without repression and fear.
2. We must have equality. We have to abolish the mentality of “big people-little
people”. We must abolish the practice of crawling to the royal family. Politicians
must be accountable to the electorate, not to shadowy conniving figures beyond
popular control. We need to build a culture where citizens respect each other. We
must have freedom and equality of the sexes and among different ethnicities. We
must respect women, gays and lesbians. We must respect Burmese, Laotians,
Cambodians and the Muslim Malay people in the south. Women must have the
right to chose safe abortions. Refugees should be treated with friendship and
dignity as any civilised society would do.
3. Our country must be a Welfare State. Taxes must be levied on the rich. The poor
are not a burden, but are partners in developing the country. People should have
dignity. The present exploitative society stifles individuals and destroys personal
creativity.
4. In our country the king should honour his constitutional role and stop intervening
in politics. But the ruling class in Thailand gain much from using the Monarchy and
they will not easily stop doing this. Therefore the best way to solve this problem is
to build a Republic where all public positions are elected and accountable.
5. For too long Thai society has been under the iron heels of the generals. We must
cut the military budget and abolish the influence of the army in society ensuring
that it can no long be an obstacle to democracy.
6. We must have justice. The judges should not claim power from the Crown in
order to stop people criticising their decisions. We must change the way that
“Contempt of Court” laws are used to prevent accountability. We need to reform
the justice system root and branch. We need a jury system. The police must serve
the population, not extract bribes from the poor.
7. Citizens in towns and communities must take part in the management of all
public institutions such as state enterprises, the media, schools and hospitals.
8. Our country must modernise. We need to develop the education system,
transport and housing. We should create energy from wind and solar power to
protect the environment.
9. Our country must be peace-loving, not start disputes with neighbouring
countries or support wars.
These are reasonable ideas based on universal social-democratic, pacifistic, egalitarian and ecological ideals. Nowhere he calls for collectivization, a socialist revolution, or on people to take up arms and fight the ruling classes. Dismissing Ji as an unreasonable leftist means falling into the trap of the Thai elite who has always tried to marginalize anti-establishment voices.
I am curious, do you actually support the use of lese majeste to remove academics from their posts?
or
do you think that Giles was an impediment to the Thai military’s control of Thai politics and their suppression of the people in their towns and villages so the use of lase majeste was appropriate?
and the relief of the Chulalongkorn U is just an incidental happy by-product?
I’m surprised that it was actually the officials in Chulalongkorn that turned him over to the police in the first place. Now, the only one question remains, how will the high-ranking royalists (I mean those military and Democrats) react to this? It’s the first time that an alleged lese majeste offender actually openly declares that, yes, he’s certainly against the king and will not take his offensive words back.
The palace must have been alerted by now. I’m afraid its next step to crush down its opposition will be harsher than ever, before this whole anti-monarchy sentiment can gain momentum.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
The Stilwell Road
From: “Tulu Patnaik”
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:05 PM
To: “New Mandala”
Subject: Re: [New Mandala] New Comment On: The Stilwell Road
> Dear Hla Oo,
> I will upload the film on my facebook profile in a week’s time. Till then
> onli
> I have copies. In case you are interested I could have it couriered to
> you. It
> is in the VCD and DVd formats.
> Even when we travelled from Mytikina to Bhamo and onwards to Lashio a lot
> of
> the area was under the Kachin Independance Army. We were made to
> understand
> that the Myanmar Govt and KIA had an informal understanding of not
> interfering
> with each other.
> Could you give me a bit of your background.
> Tulu Patnaik
The Stilwell Road
Dear Khine,
> As I had written earlier we were not given permission to travel west
> beyond
> Mytikina, we were told that the road was not traversable and that a number
> of
> culverts had broken and not repaired.
> Yes, we ( our team of three, myself, and assisitant director and the
> cameraperson) too had a lot of difficulty in getting the required
> permissions
> for travel from Mytikina to Lashio. The Myanmar Embassy in New Delhi after
> meeting us twice over two months refused permission. The Indian Embassy in
> Yangon also said they could not help. In fact at one point of time we
> almost
> gave up as no reasons were given for rejections and that too after months.
> Finally as luck would have it we went through a Yangon based travel agent
> who
> arranged for and got the permissions.
> But a representative of the government travelled with us the entire
> distance
> and kept track. Further all the footage was copied and given to some
> government authority.
> But the positives were that the landscape from Mytikina to Lashio was
> incredibly beautiful with dense forests etc. But the road was in very bad
> shape. There was tremendous poverty and there didn’t seem to be much
> development in these areas. But then this an eight year old observation.
> Tulu Patnaik
>
>
Giles leaves Thailand
Well done Ji! Good Luck with the rest of your life!
Please don’t drag Jakkraphob Penkair into this. The man doesn’t have an honest bone in his body. He’s yet another freeloader on a worthy cause.
10) Freedom from brazen exploiters like Thaksin and his greedy family and mafia cohorts.
Giles leaves Thailand
nganadeeleg – why is the khikwai one the best thing written, as you say on your blog, but don’t explain?
Giles leaves Thailand
For those that are politically active and wish to support true representative democracy in Thailsnd the manifesto is an excellent statement. It gives good and strong background for anyone wishing to understand the basis for the issues of social inequality and the undemocratic and unrepresentative nature of most Thai governments.
However, given the intensive PR surrounding the royals, I think many Thais will find the references to the history of royal political involvement shocking and hard for them to assimilate and accept.
This will make it difficult for these people to focus on the real vision of the manifesto.
Further, unfortunately, I think the military and elites will use these references to attack the vision and, worse, anyone associated with the manifesto and Giles.
Giles leaves Thailand
I have a question for Chris, David Brown, and Sam Brother.
Who is responsible for the way Thailand is right now? Is Australia in part responsible for the way the situation is right now?
I mean after World War II, the Allied inside Thailand has been completely destroyed. The latest is Giles Ji Ungpakorn.
Meanwhile, the Axis is here 24/7 like Srithanonchai, Teerachai, Ralph, etc. The Thai media is dominated by the Axis i.e. The Manager, The Nation, Kom Chad Luek, The Bangkok Post, etc. The academics in Thailand and Australia are dominated by the Axis like ChaiAnan Samudvanit, Michael Conners, etc.
I think it is time to reform the Australian Intelligence. What do you think?
Giles leaves Thailand
Ji’s manifesto is OK, but here’s something better: http://khikwai.com/blog/2009/02/09/thailands-orange-revolution/
Maintaining the rage
re: Srithanonchai
Your comment about school reform made me think of the following quote from Johann Gottlieb Fitche. Commenting on the purpose of the Prussian government-sponsored education system, he wrote “The schools must fashion the person, and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will.”
To answer your question, as you may know, for the past year my professional life was basically put on hold as I dealt with my daughter’s illness and things are just starting to settle down now. As such, the original scope of my paper, a full examination of Thai sociopedagogy from the insitutional level to all the way on down to the individual, is just too ambitious for me to pursue at the moment. I have chosen to focus on just comparing American and Thai classroom practice, classroom environment, classroom management, and student/teacher expectations. Then I will attempt to connect such practices to cultural values and beliefs. I am now working on constructing an instrument that will allow me to do that.
If all goes well, it should be ready to present by TESOL 2010.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
One question that I have never really understood. There appear to be no copies of The Devil’s Discus in thai that are complete including the first 16 pages. Why has no-one ever thought of translating these pages again and adding them to the incomplete copies that exist, at least the pdf versions?
Giles leaves Thailand
Very sorry to hear this sad news. Giles will be very welcome in the UK and I hope his voice continues to be heard from here.
Giles leaves Thailand
The Prachatipat Party (Their English name is Democrat, but they’re truely group of royalist and right wing businessmen), and the army are preparing to arrest Giles Ungparkorn while he reports himself to the police and jail him for questioning. He’s been informed before hand by those officers who disagree with this lousy policy. The same inform source has also indicated that Jakrapob Penkhae will be the coming victim soon.
Giles leaves Thailand
Well, Teeranai, if Chula has no commitment to academic freedom and is completely unwilling to defend its own faculty’s right to academic freedom, then I guess Chula is not really the “Harvard of Thailand” after all.
I find it almost impossible to believe that a people so intelligent, worldly and historically inter-connected as the Thai people, would really have any interest or desire whatsoever in following the path of the pathetic, isolated, impoverished and failed nation of North Korea in becoming a fearful, informant-centric society where idiosyncratic, creative, curious individuals with robust and free opinions and views, and a sense of their own individual rights are no longer valued.
Bring Harry home!
Reporters Without Borders have called for a cyber-demonstration on 9 February to call for the release of Harry Nicolaides. The cyber-demonstration link is at the RWB site – http://www.rsf.org/freeharry/index.php?id=21
Giles leaves Thailand
Srithanonchai should tell us more about Chula. Why do his colleagues want him out?
On whether he is a leading academic, that is a matter of judgment. Measured against others in the same department at Chula, he looks reasonably good in terms of publications. But, then, maybe that is not a great department? In my view, while I disagree with many of his perceptions and his analysis, I value his work. He certainly ranks up there with other Thai intellectuals for his capacity to bring important issues into the public arena.
Coincidentally, Reporters Without Borders released a report entitled “His Untouchable Majesty”. Can be downloaded from their site. They have also called for a cyber-demonstration on 9 February to call for the release of Harry Nicolaides. The cyberdemonstration link is at the RWB site – http://www.rsf.org/freeharry/index.php?id=21
Giles leaves Thailand
I think this..
‘However, it is also clear that the Thai King is more comfortable with military dictatorships than with elected governments. This explains why the Monarchy backed the 19th September coup.’
would likely be one of the more offensive sections of Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s eight paragraphs under scrutiny.
I think I should say something in the name of not knowing, and then writing something as though you do know certainly. It’s done all the time – why do people do it? Is it for the glamour of being creative, highly intelligent and traditionally free? Being renowned as a leading academic? Surely leading academics don’t make things up. Creative, highly intelligent people don’t need to become vain martyrs for Thai civil liberties because they’re highly intelligent and would have thought of more creative ways to undermine the status-quo if that was their aim. Perhaps people who are ‘traditionally free’ don’t care too much about what others are doing to get caught up in this drama?
Nothing is clear. Is Giles Ji Ungpakorn now a figure for provocative assumptions kicking against a conservative beast? Is the use of Lese Majeste against him a measure for truth in his assumptions? Maybe he wanted to spend time in England for a while and had booked the flight well in advance? In the same vogue as Giles, I assume draconian Lese Majeste laws will never be challenged by Thais discussing his effigy.
Giles leaves Thailand
The ability to think and reason is a divine gift.
Ms. Da Torpedo, Jakrapob Penkair, and Giles Ji Ungpakorn, have two characteristics in common. They have knowledge deeper than average Thais about Thai politics and are very passionate about moving Thai society toward progress. Their intention and ability have made them leaders in their own right.
When I listened to Da Torpedo I was stunned about the detailed knowledge she has about Thai political history from 1932 to present. When I read Jakrapob’s paper, I appreciated his search to understand the historical context and an attempt to analyze the root cause of its underdevelopment. When I read Giles Ji’s papers, I admired the depth and breath of his analysis, the creativity and the heavy-weight of his intellect. Their standards motivate me to upgrade myself. Indeed, they are the treasure of Siam.
As for Harry’s book, I think his bonding to Thai society must have motivated his desire to contribute to its progress. It is unconscionable to hold him in Thai prison for his divine gift of reasoning.
Giles leaves Thailand
Reading Ji’s farewell to Thailand – his ‘Red Siam’ manifesto (available at http://thaipoliticalprisoners.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/red-siam2.pdf) – I don’t regard his views as ‘too far leftist’. To the contrary, he remains realistic and admits that, if at all, a socialist society can only be a long-term goal and that, for the time being, a common platform has to be build on the following goals:
These are reasonable ideas based on universal social-democratic, pacifistic, egalitarian and ecological ideals. Nowhere he calls for collectivization, a socialist revolution, or on people to take up arms and fight the ruling classes. Dismissing Ji as an unreasonable leftist means falling into the trap of the Thai elite who has always tried to marginalize anti-establishment voices.
Giles leaves Thailand
Srithanonchai
I am curious, do you actually support the use of lese majeste to remove academics from their posts?
or
do you think that Giles was an impediment to the Thai military’s control of Thai politics and their suppression of the people in their towns and villages so the use of lase majeste was appropriate?
and the relief of the Chulalongkorn U is just an incidental happy by-product?
Giles leaves Thailand
And today Giles’s website was blocked by the MICT.
Giles leaves Thailand
I’m surprised that it was actually the officials in Chulalongkorn that turned him over to the police in the first place. Now, the only one question remains, how will the high-ranking royalists (I mean those military and Democrats) react to this? It’s the first time that an alleged lese majeste offender actually openly declares that, yes, he’s certainly against the king and will not take his offensive words back.
The palace must have been alerted by now. I’m afraid its next step to crush down its opposition will be harsher than ever, before this whole anti-monarchy sentiment can gain momentum.