Not content with exposing workers to lethal amounts of chrysotile asbestos dust, and local residents to an extended period low level exposure during the construction of various housing estates in the Nawong Rd. area, the ex-minister of commerce has now started on a new housing estate project in the same area.
Needless to say the asbestos products incorporated into the house designs serve a purely decorative function. Workers will not be supplied with adequate protection and local residents who have been exposed (and will now be re-exposed) will, presumably, not be alerted to the dangers -they weren’t in the past.
To put things in perspective: cutting ‘shera’ with a hand held grinding disc releases up to 250 times the maximum amount of fibers permitted under USA law and 5 times the amount permitted under Thai law.
So what is to be done? No point in sending e-mails to the ex minister of commerce. He doesn’t seem to reply. Go to the local ampur? No luck their either.
I’m open to suggestions but also wary as to how this gentleman is going to act, now that he has been all but exposed.
In countries where the military and its purveyors form the strongest institution, the rule of law is inevitably weak. Public officials (Prime Minister, King, judges, academics etc.) and the rest of the country’s élite find themselves at once the captives and the accomplices of a vast criminal organisation. Though Abhisit is the latest example of the Patty Hearst Syndrome in politics, its application is much wider geographically and historically. Only properly functioning democracies are free of it, and when they decline it rears its ugly head. George W. Bush was an installed Patty Hearst, specially chosen because he was unlikely to wake up and do something about it.
Thaksin’s biggest mistake was to assume that his popularity allowed him to rise above his r├┤le as the military’s captive. Had he seduced his military allies/captors with even more luxury, he might still be Prime Minister.
“Anyone in their right mind” is another way of begging the question, making anyone questioning the monarchy’s role or behavior, or criticizing it, as out of his or her mind and thus illegitimate and unjustified.
It should not be necessary to reiterate the fact, FACT (eff ay see tee) that Harry did not criticize the monarchy or even the Crown Prince, but that he alluded, in a fictional work, that there were rumors regarding the prince which there are.
So he did not criticize nor did he defame.
But that is what he was put up on the cross for anyhow. As to who is in their right mind, I ask those who ask this question to examine facts and not feelings, to adjudge reality and not theoretical fancy, to assess Thailand’s obligations both within and outside of Thailand in the human rights, democracy and freedom of speech areas and try to conclude, based on these observations, that Thailand is in the right on this case.
In my mind it is way off base, and I believe that a valid logical argument can not be won by those offering otherwise.
To Sidd,
You defence of Thailand seems to be repeated many times before by people who prefer to leave status quo intact like u. Better off come up with something more original, sophisticated and convincing.
I wonder whether Jakrapob would rather be an activist in Burma or Singapore, instead of Thailand?
I agree, however, with the above posters, that the military and the Democrat Party are doing the most damage to the country, the monarchy, and the Democrat Party at the moment.
The website http://www.harrynicolaides.com with the online petition is not genuine. It is a spam site designed to collect email addresses for improper use. Please spread the word. A proper campaign site will emerge in the near future.
The international media business only pays attention when something large happens in Thailand. Peaceful protests, no injured or dead protesters do not make news.
I have not seen Red Shirts making things worse either, after Abhisit became Prime Minister. As long as they stay peaceful with their protests Thailand will only benefit. Unfortunately many of their opponents have difficulties to understand that peaceful protests do in fact function as a control mechanism in a democracy, and channelize discontent in a democratic way. The PAD once, in their early days, had such a role.
Only when such protests lead to military coups and attempts of violent takeovers the system will collapse. Instead of applying pressure to the majority of peaceful Red Shirt protesters the government and the military should let them be. Otherwise the more radical factions will get support.
What has made things much worse were the news about the Rohinya refugees, and Abhisit’s less than lukewarm response, especially given that only a few days previous he has put much emphasis on the rule of law. The Harry Nicolaides judgement made things definitely worse, and so did the case against Giles Ungpakorn.
After a brief period of grace, the foreign media is increasingly doubtful if Abhisit is actually following through with his promises stated in his speech at the event organized by the FCCT in the Intercontinental Hotel, or if he even has the power to do so.
The foreign media is also watching if the legal cases against PAD will come to court.
Increased frequency of statements in the Thai media that we foreigners “do not understand Thailand” are not encouraging either.
This seems to be a very unlucky incident as well as a very stupid one.
The King and the Royal family are the face of the Kingdom of Thailand so to critisize them in any way would be a very stupid thing to do indeed. Thailand is not Australia and laws and lifestyles are very different. The King is thought as by the Thais as almost a god. The Royal family is very important indeed to the people of Thailand.
Why would anyone critisize the Thai Royal family anyway, especially in Thailand? Anyone in their right mind would have thought and known they could or would be charged and jailed under Thai laws with the publication of this book containing negative comments written about the Royal family.
Hopefully with a Royal pardon he can have his sentence reduced as this suffering is not good for him or his family but if this is not achieved he will have to undergo alot of suffering for the next 3 years. Such a disapointment and a terrible mistake.
Thailand is a great country led by a great King with Buddhism and the Nation following. Although it has its problems in the polictical realm, and some people may be tricky, the majority of people are so pleasant and compassionate and are lovely to be around if you are the same. Although the King is very rich and powerful he still lives a human life with a Buddhist philosophy and the military to back him up if the nation looks like its headed for trouble. There is a lot of suffering in the world and Thailand has had its problems in the past, as well as its neighbours. With Taksin gone and a new government formed, now corruption hopefully will decrease and the nation grow to be a better more posporous place than it already is. Sometimes corruption can be good but in most cases is not. Karmic law should follow anyhow. Anyone found guilty of les majeste should be tried under Thai law with the crime fitting the sentence, as the King and his family are the face of the country and the majority of Thais love their King.
Michael Secomb says the pro-Thaksin red shirts have made things worse. I think the Democrats are doing it all themselves, following in the trail left by their yellow-shirted foot soldiers. At least internationally, the red shirts have had little coverage to date; perhaps this is because they are exceptionally quiet of late.
BTW, Thai International have not cut fares where I am but they have cut services. Are they in grave financial trouble?
Thanks for this. While the site is still under development, it is useful on all the current lese majeste cases. It has all the banned stuff posted. How long before it is blocked in Thailand?
Thailand is certainly shooting itself in the foot at the moment, which is sad. The PAD demonstrations were bad enough, but the pro-Taksin red shirts have made it even worse, and now the les majeste crackdown is really damaging the country’s image abroad. It will take more than Thai Air cutting fares to restore the dmage done. I had high hopes for Abhisit, but how can the government claim to be democratic when it behaves in this way? It seems the elites are just running riot and ordinary Thais are keeping their heads down and hoping for peace. What’s that saying about what to do when the elephants rumble in the jungle?
So many problems are coming to the surface at the moment. These are not just a result of the Thaksin regime or the military coup, but a general lack of rule of law that allows authorities, especially the military, to act with impunity. There has never been any justice over the Tak Bai massacre. In the midst of so many issues your article didn’t even find space to mention the recent Amnesty International report on torture in the Deep South.
There is a little hope for change from within Thailand. The only thing that can really be done to improve the situation is to get more international observers on the ground and for other countries to take a more outspoken approach in their diplomacy with Thailand.
Phil Robertson repeats a line that is often made by royalists and is used by editorial writers sometimes to suggest that the laws are the preserve of evil people and that the monarchy does not need such laws. The Democrats appear to reject this argument. Likewise, the Nicolaides case (who was behind this one? as far as I can tell we do not know who the complaintant was?) and many of the others currently before the courts or under investigation do not suggest that LM is simply a tool of politicians fighting with each other.
In any case, the king has had 62 years, numerous governments, numerous constitutions and numerous meetings with prime ministers and ministers where he could have asked that the law be changed or gotten rid of. The king’s 2005 statement has served his purposes but has coincided with a stronger use of LM.
Dear Australian and Everyone else,
Before trying to understand Thailand, blame Harry for breaking Thai laws/taboo, please understand that:
– We got 30 minutes royal news broadcasted everyday at 20:00 on every free TV channels. And there are a lot of royal propaganda everywhere, royal documentaries broadcasting on every media. (May be only North Korea can surpass us)
– We are a developing country that got the wealthiest king in the world (according to Forbes), and most Thai people never know this. We are all brainwashed with the “sufficiency economy” propaganda while the royal accumulating their own wealth.
– According to government expenditure during 2008, we (the tax payer) pay more than $170M for the royal institution. This is the world MOST EXPENSIVE royal. The queen of UK could never match for this.
– Last year, we spent at least $30M for King’s older sister’s funeral. And that’s from the government expenditure. Not from the royal wealth.
– While these expense are published in the government’s document. You want see it in any mass media. It’s a taboo.
– At this rate, we are made to believe that the King is a living god. We love the King. And we just never know anything bad about our King.
– Don’t expect any justice in Lese Majeste. These cases are done as secretly as possible.
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A royal Grant
Not content with exposing workers to lethal amounts of chrysotile asbestos dust, and local residents to an extended period low level exposure during the construction of various housing estates in the Nawong Rd. area, the ex-minister of commerce has now started on a new housing estate project in the same area.
Needless to say the asbestos products incorporated into the house designs serve a purely decorative function. Workers will not be supplied with adequate protection and local residents who have been exposed (and will now be re-exposed) will, presumably, not be alerted to the dangers -they weren’t in the past.
To put things in perspective: cutting ‘shera’ with a hand held grinding disc releases up to 250 times the maximum amount of fibers permitted under USA law and 5 times the amount permitted under Thai law.
So what is to be done? No point in sending e-mails to the ex minister of commerce. He doesn’t seem to reply. Go to the local ampur? No luck their either.
I’m open to suggestions but also wary as to how this gentleman is going to act, now that he has been all but exposed.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
In countries where the military and its purveyors form the strongest institution, the rule of law is inevitably weak. Public officials (Prime Minister, King, judges, academics etc.) and the rest of the country’s élite find themselves at once the captives and the accomplices of a vast criminal organisation. Though Abhisit is the latest example of the Patty Hearst Syndrome in politics, its application is much wider geographically and historically. Only properly functioning democracies are free of it, and when they decline it rears its ugly head. George W. Bush was an installed Patty Hearst, specially chosen because he was unlikely to wake up and do something about it.
Thaksin’s biggest mistake was to assume that his popularity allowed him to rise above his r├┤le as the military’s captive. Had he seduced his military allies/captors with even more luxury, he might still be Prime Minister.
Statement on Harry Nicolaides
“Anyone in their right mind” is another way of begging the question, making anyone questioning the monarchy’s role or behavior, or criticizing it, as out of his or her mind and thus illegitimate and unjustified.
It should not be necessary to reiterate the fact, FACT (eff ay see tee) that Harry did not criticize the monarchy or even the Crown Prince, but that he alluded, in a fictional work, that there were rumors regarding the prince which there are.
So he did not criticize nor did he defame.
But that is what he was put up on the cross for anyhow. As to who is in their right mind, I ask those who ask this question to examine facts and not feelings, to adjudge reality and not theoretical fancy, to assess Thailand’s obligations both within and outside of Thailand in the human rights, democracy and freedom of speech areas and try to conclude, based on these observations, that Thailand is in the right on this case.
In my mind it is way off base, and I believe that a valid logical argument can not be won by those offering otherwise.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Is the above true about the website ? Can someone from NM check this with Harry’s camp ?
If it’s not true, one wonders who would have a vested interest in discrediting the campaign to pardon him ?
The King Never Smiles?
To Sidd,
You defence of Thailand seems to be repeated many times before by people who prefer to leave status quo intact like u. Better off come up with something more original, sophisticated and convincing.
The King Never Smiles?
Sidd: Your post suggests you haven’t done so already, so can I respectfully make a suggestion – Please read the book that this thread is about.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
the red shirts have had little coverage to date; perhaps this is because they are exceptionally quiet of late.
Quiet, apart from attacking monks and seeking favours from Burma & Singapore?
http://nganadeeleg.blogspot.com/2009/01/signs-that-red-shirts-pro-democracy.html
I wonder whether Jakrapob would rather be an activist in Burma or Singapore, instead of Thailand?
I agree, however, with the above posters, that the military and the Democrat Party are doing the most damage to the country, the monarchy, and the Democrat Party at the moment.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
The website http://www.harrynicolaides.com with the online petition is not genuine. It is a spam site designed to collect email addresses for improper use. Please spread the word. A proper campaign site will emerge in the near future.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
“Ralph Kramden”:
The international media business only pays attention when something large happens in Thailand. Peaceful protests, no injured or dead protesters do not make news.
I have not seen Red Shirts making things worse either, after Abhisit became Prime Minister. As long as they stay peaceful with their protests Thailand will only benefit. Unfortunately many of their opponents have difficulties to understand that peaceful protests do in fact function as a control mechanism in a democracy, and channelize discontent in a democratic way. The PAD once, in their early days, had such a role.
Only when such protests lead to military coups and attempts of violent takeovers the system will collapse. Instead of applying pressure to the majority of peaceful Red Shirt protesters the government and the military should let them be. Otherwise the more radical factions will get support.
What has made things much worse were the news about the Rohinya refugees, and Abhisit’s less than lukewarm response, especially given that only a few days previous he has put much emphasis on the rule of law. The Harry Nicolaides judgement made things definitely worse, and so did the case against Giles Ungpakorn.
After a brief period of grace, the foreign media is increasingly doubtful if Abhisit is actually following through with his promises stated in his speech at the event organized by the FCCT in the Intercontinental Hotel, or if he even has the power to do so.
The foreign media is also watching if the legal cases against PAD will come to court.
Increased frequency of statements in the Thai media that we foreigners “do not understand Thailand” are not encouraging either.
Statement on Harry Nicolaides
This seems to be a very unlucky incident as well as a very stupid one.
The King and the Royal family are the face of the Kingdom of Thailand so to critisize them in any way would be a very stupid thing to do indeed. Thailand is not Australia and laws and lifestyles are very different. The King is thought as by the Thais as almost a god. The Royal family is very important indeed to the people of Thailand.
Why would anyone critisize the Thai Royal family anyway, especially in Thailand? Anyone in their right mind would have thought and known they could or would be charged and jailed under Thai laws with the publication of this book containing negative comments written about the Royal family.
Hopefully with a Royal pardon he can have his sentence reduced as this suffering is not good for him or his family but if this is not achieved he will have to undergo alot of suffering for the next 3 years. Such a disapointment and a terrible mistake.
The King Never Smiles?
Thailand is a great country led by a great King with Buddhism and the Nation following. Although it has its problems in the polictical realm, and some people may be tricky, the majority of people are so pleasant and compassionate and are lovely to be around if you are the same. Although the King is very rich and powerful he still lives a human life with a Buddhist philosophy and the military to back him up if the nation looks like its headed for trouble. There is a lot of suffering in the world and Thailand has had its problems in the past, as well as its neighbours. With Taksin gone and a new government formed, now corruption hopefully will decrease and the nation grow to be a better more posporous place than it already is. Sometimes corruption can be good but in most cases is not. Karmic law should follow anyhow. Anyone found guilty of les majeste should be tried under Thai law with the crime fitting the sentence, as the King and his family are the face of the country and the majority of Thais love their King.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Thailand- Foreigners warned of lese majeste charge leading to serious penalty
http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/previewnews.php?news_id=255201240007&tb=N255201&news_headline=Foreigners%20warned%20of%20lese%20majeste%20charge%20leading%20to%20serious%20penalty
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Michael Secomb says the pro-Thaksin red shirts have made things worse. I think the Democrats are doing it all themselves, following in the trail left by their yellow-shirted foot soldiers. At least internationally, the red shirts have had little coverage to date; perhaps this is because they are exceptionally quiet of late.
BTW, Thai International have not cut fares where I am but they have cut services. Are they in grave financial trouble?
Thailand’s political prisoners
Thanks for this. While the site is still under development, it is useful on all the current lese majeste cases. It has all the banned stuff posted. How long before it is blocked in Thailand?
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Thailand is certainly shooting itself in the foot at the moment, which is sad. The PAD demonstrations were bad enough, but the pro-Taksin red shirts have made it even worse, and now the les majeste crackdown is really damaging the country’s image abroad. It will take more than Thai Air cutting fares to restore the dmage done. I had high hopes for Abhisit, but how can the government claim to be democratic when it behaves in this way? It seems the elites are just running riot and ordinary Thais are keeping their heads down and hoping for peace. What’s that saying about what to do when the elephants rumble in the jungle?
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
So many problems are coming to the surface at the moment. These are not just a result of the Thaksin regime or the military coup, but a general lack of rule of law that allows authorities, especially the military, to act with impunity. There has never been any justice over the Tak Bai massacre. In the midst of so many issues your article didn’t even find space to mention the recent Amnesty International report on torture in the Deep South.
There is a little hope for change from within Thailand. The only thing that can really be done to improve the situation is to get more international observers on the ground and for other countries to take a more outspoken approach in their diplomacy with Thailand.
Abhisit’s human rights challenge
Great article. The bulletin-the-back-of-the head killings of Burmese student protestors that took over a Thai hospital a few years ago is another incident of renown Thai brutality.
Also see my article on UPIAsiaOnline at
http://www.upiasia.com/Politics/2009/01/23/thailand_overzealous_in_protecting_royals/2366/
Lèse-majesté damages the monarchy and freedom
Phil Robertson repeats a line that is often made by royalists and is used by editorial writers sometimes to suggest that the laws are the preserve of evil people and that the monarchy does not need such laws. The Democrats appear to reject this argument. Likewise, the Nicolaides case (who was behind this one? as far as I can tell we do not know who the complaintant was?) and many of the others currently before the courts or under investigation do not suggest that LM is simply a tool of politicians fighting with each other.
In any case, the king has had 62 years, numerous governments, numerous constitutions and numerous meetings with prime ministers and ministers where he could have asked that the law be changed or gotten rid of. The king’s 2005 statement has served his purposes but has coincided with a stronger use of LM.
Update on Harry Nicolaides
Dear Kim
Could you explain your comment:
“Thialand (sic) is now up there with Saudi Arabia and Iran in my book.”
What is the basis of this comparison?
Adam
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Dear Australian and Everyone else,
Before trying to understand Thailand, blame Harry for breaking Thai laws/taboo, please understand that:
– We got 30 minutes royal news broadcasted everyday at 20:00 on every free TV channels. And there are a lot of royal propaganda everywhere, royal documentaries broadcasting on every media. (May be only North Korea can surpass us)
– We are a developing country that got the wealthiest king in the world (according to Forbes), and most Thai people never know this. We are all brainwashed with the “sufficiency economy” propaganda while the royal accumulating their own wealth.
– According to government expenditure during 2008, we (the tax payer) pay more than $170M for the royal institution. This is the world MOST EXPENSIVE royal. The queen of UK could never match for this.
– Last year, we spent at least $30M for King’s older sister’s funeral. And that’s from the government expenditure. Not from the royal wealth.
– While these expense are published in the government’s document. You want see it in any mass media. It’s a taboo.
– At this rate, we are made to believe that the King is a living god. We love the King. And we just never know anything bad about our King.
– Don’t expect any justice in Lese Majeste. These cases are done as secretly as possible.