I am encouraged that the formation of the government now is still
working within the democratic rules… if the democrats succeed, the
government will be composed of all elected MPs….
(I dont like all the money flowing but its still elected MPs that are
negotiating with each other… even with nefarious help from the
military and other influences, just like the PPP talking to Thaksin only more dangerous… )
as you say in the post, what we need to watch for is any attempt within the constitution or outside it to introduce any more non-elected people as MPs or into the government
and the by-elections in january must go ahead… the more elections with all people voting is key to continuing the democratic life of Thailand!
Again, it does not matter whether we foreign observers think Thailand is a true democracy.
The ones who matter are the Thai voters themselves, who, lest we forget, have been voting in general elections since the 1930s.
What would they think of suggestions from concerned foreigners that they deserve to be disenfranchised because their democracy does not measure up to some arbitrary western standard?
I don’t think that the question of Thailand being a democracy or not is debatable. Unless, of course, you consider rampant vote-buying for elections of ALL levels (from tambon nayok to prime minister) a democracy. Or a throng of rabble taking over an international airport because of election results.
Compare the shining example of the heroes of Udon Thani with the cowardice of police commanders, and the perfidy of generals, who have since allowed fascist thugs to destroy what was left of Thailand’s reputation. Those few brave men stood up and fought, and checked a filthy plague that threatened to overrun rural Thailand.
Singapore, Indonesia and Thailand never were and are not now democracies.
The extent to which Indonesia and Thailand are full democracies is a question open to debate .
Nevertheless, it ought to be acknowledged that both countries have made substantial progress in recent decades. Indonesians and Thais have worked hard to build democratic institutions.
As a direct consequence of their progress towards democratic ideals, citizens of Thailand and Indonesia today enjoy fundamental civil liberties that Singaporeans — despite a certain material abundance — can only dream about. This is no accident, and it’s no small achievement.
Thaksin needed to have support of the majority to carry out needed reforms, which the opposition termed as populist. The state enterprise unions opposed to this joined hands with the PAD.
These are the complexities that developing economies face when initiating these reforms. It is made worse because Thaksin was too result oriented and was too much of a supporter of free markets for Thai taste.
Daniel,
Thanks for the update.
The idea of a Karen Foreign Legion is one of the stupidest ideas I have seen floated by in a good while.
When it was first mentioned to me, it took me several minutes to regain my breath, I was laughing so hard.
An area I’d like to touch on is that of discussing Americans and Europeans fighting alongside the KNLA. I think it should be taken for granted that both Thai and Burmese intelligence agencies peruse these forums from time to time.
When the Thai’s read these moronic posts about foreigners assisting the KNLA, they go looking for them. The foreigner is arrested, blacklisted, and then deported.
When the Burmese read about it, worse things happen.
So when someone openly discusses foreigners fighting alongside the KNLA, I can only conclude that they’re trying to get these people arrested or killed. Stupid in the extreme.
Lastly, when someone starts discussing their “confidential sources”, and fishing for information in an open forum, my bullshit detector goes red line. There is a reason that that person isn’t being told anything, and that reason is right here on this thread. Perhaps he should step back and reassess, then go away.
We now see in action how a ‘democratically elected government’ is being formed. Very ‘funny’ indeed!
Things get forgotten. ‘Influental people’ win the elections in their constituencies – a sure-fire way is to buy the village headmen. Thaksin was not the first one but the most successfull in buying MP’s and complete parties wholesale. Here come his stunning election wins.
Now there seems to occur the possibility that a new government might be elected in parliament by ‘democratically elected’ members of parliament. Now they are being tried to be lured back into the fold of the ‘beloved and majority-supported superman’ by billions of Baht. Democracy in action indeed!!!
James, I miss you mate.
Thank you for your kind comments.
I spoke with Dah this morning, as I do every day and we have base camp back.
We will win, it’s just a matter of time.
Dan
Yes, there are attacks, no there is no ‘foreign legion’.
It’s predominately landmine wounds the SPDC is treating at Kholesay base camp.
The KNLA still has the high ground.
Cheers.
Dan
“Chang Noi” makes some surprising omissions in his column on the use of political violence. The turning point for the PAD was not the period between the successful 2006 demonstrations and the 2008 movement. The turning point was July 24th, 2008 in Udon Thani when an entirely peaceful group of PAD supporters were set upon by hundreds of thugs armed with iron bars, clubs and swords. Some were beaten nearly to death. Police and local authorities stood by and did not intervene. The vicious beatings were video-taped and photographed, the evidence clear for all to see.
In subsequent days, weeks and months, the government took no action against those who committed the violence in Udon. None. Steadily in response the PAD built up its defensive capacities. Is it right to blame them? Is it appropriate for a writer who purports to be an academic expert, as “Chang Noi” does, to ignore the Udon incident, just because it is inconvenient to his thesis?
Thank you for finally writing something of value regarding this case. There is so much persicution re Harry on blogs and websites and it’s fantastic to see some positive and pro-active words.
On behalf of Harry and his family, thank you.
For the benefit of Polo:
1. “How good is the record for this form of government in Thailand?”
Does that suggest that the system works well?
2. Again, no one is suggesting that the Thai system works acceptably well. It clearly has numerous deficiencies. The point is, warts and all, it is not a democracy and it would be a pleasant change if people would stop trying to defend it as such. The Thais will, over time, continue to develop their own system of government, with some serious bumps along the way. The end result may not fit everyone’s ideals of a democratic system. I am not advocating anarchy, rather I suggested (and I confess to borrowing the thoughts from a colleague in academia here) Thailand is yet to have its revolution.
3. A better defence might be to quote chapter and verse. The nature of the electoral game in Thailand has changed significantly and has become more institutionalized. A serious study of this change is (eagerly) awaited. And yes Polo, I would imagine that after living some 30 odd years in Thailand I may have noticed the occasional subtle political change or two, particularly when I am engaged in lively debate in the village, when my family are involved in an ‘election’ or perhaps when I see a real journalist friend get caught in the crossfire from yet another coup.
I’ve just read ‘PAD’s real Forebears’. It’s so well-written and very moving.. How cruel, selfish, ruthless, shameless those murderers are, and now those very same murderes (or their likes ) are enjoying immese wealth and high prestige in Thai society> i don’t believe that there is such a thing as “karma’ but now I really wished ‘karma’ was real so that those who ordered the horrific murder and rape of unarmed protestors could suffer the same atrocities.
I wish more Thais were able to access it, but I doubt if any PAD supporters would even bother to take a glimpse at it… The problem with many Thai people is not just fixed mindset, but also the inability to read English texts.. But perhaps even more than that is the refusal to accept that one can be wrong, that one has been programmed by a particular version of ‘truth’ that seeks to distort history for its own political gain..What an apt choice of word..’ki kwai’… but then ‘ki kwai’ is actually quite harmless and in the past the poor even benefit from it. Those murderers are much much much worse than “Ki-kwai”..
This raises an interesting question: Could the PAD have won (let’s accept their claim of victory) without the use of force?
Were the several violent showdowns just fate that worked to the group’s benefit, or were they part of the leadership’s calculations all along? Or did the turn of events make the increasing use of thugs a fatal attraction?
I think the invasion of NBT, marking the start of the “General Uprising,” shows an awareness that muscle was needed to back up any moral authority they laid claim to.
I’m not so sure things didn’t get out of control, with the tail starting to wag the dog.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Dishonourable but parliamentary
I am encouraged that the formation of the government now is still
working within the democratic rules… if the democrats succeed, the
government will be composed of all elected MPs….
(I dont like all the money flowing but its still elected MPs that are
negotiating with each other… even with nefarious help from the
military and other influences, just like the PPP talking to Thaksin only more dangerous… )
as you say in the post, what we need to watch for is any attempt within the constitution or outside it to introduce any more non-elected people as MPs or into the government
and the by-elections in january must go ahead… the more elections with all people voting is key to continuing the democratic life of Thailand!
Violence and politics
Please correct a serious omission in my last post, which should have read, amongs the rest, “..the perfidy of generals, judges, and politicians…”.
Does Thailand need democracy?
Again, it does not matter whether we foreign observers think Thailand is a true democracy.
The ones who matter are the Thai voters themselves, who, lest we forget, have been voting in general elections since the 1930s.
What would they think of suggestions from concerned foreigners that they deserve to be disenfranchised because their democracy does not measure up to some arbitrary western standard?
Does Thailand need democracy?
I don’t think that the question of Thailand being a democracy or not is debatable. Unless, of course, you consider rampant vote-buying for elections of ALL levels (from tambon nayok to prime minister) a democracy. Or a throng of rabble taking over an international airport because of election results.
Violence and politics
Compare the shining example of the heroes of Udon Thani with the cowardice of police commanders, and the perfidy of generals, who have since allowed fascist thugs to destroy what was left of Thailand’s reputation. Those few brave men stood up and fought, and checked a filthy plague that threatened to overrun rural Thailand.
Does Thailand need democracy?
Terry wrote:
Singapore, Indonesia and Thailand never were and are not now democracies.
The extent to which Indonesia and Thailand are full democracies is a question open to debate .
Nevertheless, it ought to be acknowledged that both countries have made substantial progress in recent decades. Indonesians and Thais have worked hard to build democratic institutions.
As a direct consequence of their progress towards democratic ideals, citizens of Thailand and Indonesia today enjoy fundamental civil liberties that Singaporeans — despite a certain material abundance — can only dream about. This is no accident, and it’s no small achievement.
Thai politics from an economic perspective
Thaksin needed to have support of the majority to carry out needed reforms, which the opposition termed as populist. The state enterprise unions opposed to this joined hands with the PAD.
These are the complexities that developing economies face when initiating these reforms. It is made worse because Thaksin was too result oriented and was too much of a supporter of free markets for Thai taste.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Daniel,
Thanks for the update.
The idea of a Karen Foreign Legion is one of the stupidest ideas I have seen floated by in a good while.
When it was first mentioned to me, it took me several minutes to regain my breath, I was laughing so hard.
An area I’d like to touch on is that of discussing Americans and Europeans fighting alongside the KNLA. I think it should be taken for granted that both Thai and Burmese intelligence agencies peruse these forums from time to time.
When the Thai’s read these moronic posts about foreigners assisting the KNLA, they go looking for them. The foreigner is arrested, blacklisted, and then deported.
When the Burmese read about it, worse things happen.
So when someone openly discusses foreigners fighting alongside the KNLA, I can only conclude that they’re trying to get these people arrested or killed. Stupid in the extreme.
Lastly, when someone starts discussing their “confidential sources”, and fishing for information in an open forum, my bullshit detector goes red line. There is a reason that that person isn’t being told anything, and that reason is right here on this thread. Perhaps he should step back and reassess, then go away.
New Mandala in The Age
We now see in action how a ‘democratically elected government’ is being formed. Very ‘funny’ indeed!
Things get forgotten. ‘Influental people’ win the elections in their constituencies – a sure-fire way is to buy the village headmen. Thaksin was not the first one but the most successfull in buying MP’s and complete parties wholesale. Here come his stunning election wins.
Now there seems to occur the possibility that a new government might be elected in parliament by ‘democratically elected’ members of parliament. Now they are being tried to be lured back into the fold of the ‘beloved and majority-supported superman’ by billions of Baht. Democracy in action indeed!!!
Volunteering to fight in Burma
James, I miss you mate.
Thank you for your kind comments.
I spoke with Dah this morning, as I do every day and we have base camp back.
We will win, it’s just a matter of time.
Dan
Thai politics from an economic perspective
Publicly accessible in Southeast Asia:
http://www.tdri.or.th/en/html/download.html
http://www.tdri.or.th/ye_08/papers/g4_1_doner.pdf
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Yes, there are attacks, no there is no ‘foreign legion’.
It’s predominately landmine wounds the SPDC is treating at Kholesay base camp.
The KNLA still has the high ground.
Cheers.
Dan
Violence and politics
“Chang Noi” makes some surprising omissions in his column on the use of political violence. The turning point for the PAD was not the period between the successful 2006 demonstrations and the 2008 movement. The turning point was July 24th, 2008 in Udon Thani when an entirely peaceful group of PAD supporters were set upon by hundreds of thugs armed with iron bars, clubs and swords. Some were beaten nearly to death. Police and local authorities stood by and did not intervene. The vicious beatings were video-taped and photographed, the evidence clear for all to see.
In subsequent days, weeks and months, the government took no action against those who committed the violence in Udon. None. Steadily in response the PAD built up its defensive capacities. Is it right to blame them? Is it appropriate for a writer who purports to be an academic expert, as “Chang Noi” does, to ignore the Udon incident, just because it is inconvenient to his thesis?
On prostitution and Thailand today
when the minority wont to rule you will always have this amount
of social problems
On prostitution and Thailand today
Many thanks for the plug!
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Hi Gary,
Thank you for finally writing something of value regarding this case. There is so much persicution re Harry on blogs and websites and it’s fantastic to see some positive and pro-active words.
On behalf of Harry and his family, thank you.
Does Thailand need democracy?
For the benefit of Polo:
1. “How good is the record for this form of government in Thailand?”
Does that suggest that the system works well?
2. Again, no one is suggesting that the Thai system works acceptably well. It clearly has numerous deficiencies. The point is, warts and all, it is not a democracy and it would be a pleasant change if people would stop trying to defend it as such. The Thais will, over time, continue to develop their own system of government, with some serious bumps along the way. The end result may not fit everyone’s ideals of a democratic system. I am not advocating anarchy, rather I suggested (and I confess to borrowing the thoughts from a colleague in academia here) Thailand is yet to have its revolution.
3. A better defence might be to quote chapter and verse. The nature of the electoral game in Thailand has changed significantly and has become more institutionalized. A serious study of this change is (eagerly) awaited. And yes Polo, I would imagine that after living some 30 odd years in Thailand I may have noticed the occasional subtle political change or two, particularly when I am engaged in lively debate in the village, when my family are involved in an ‘election’ or perhaps when I see a real journalist friend get caught in the crossfire from yet another coup.
On prostitution and Thailand today
I’ve just read ‘PAD’s real Forebears’. It’s so well-written and very moving.. How cruel, selfish, ruthless, shameless those murderers are, and now those very same murderes (or their likes ) are enjoying immese wealth and high prestige in Thai society> i don’t believe that there is such a thing as “karma’ but now I really wished ‘karma’ was real so that those who ordered the horrific murder and rape of unarmed protestors could suffer the same atrocities.
I wish more Thais were able to access it, but I doubt if any PAD supporters would even bother to take a glimpse at it… The problem with many Thai people is not just fixed mindset, but also the inability to read English texts.. But perhaps even more than that is the refusal to accept that one can be wrong, that one has been programmed by a particular version of ‘truth’ that seeks to distort history for its own political gain..What an apt choice of word..’ki kwai’… but then ‘ki kwai’ is actually quite harmless and in the past the poor even benefit from it. Those murderers are much much much worse than “Ki-kwai”..
New Mandala in The Age
the Midnight guys have had some good references in many places
because I dont read Thai I havent been able to understand their rather amazing/tantalising website…
they sound like a good group to associate with
Violence and politics
This raises an interesting question: Could the PAD have won (let’s accept their claim of victory) without the use of force?
Were the several violent showdowns just fate that worked to the group’s benefit, or were they part of the leadership’s calculations all along? Or did the turn of events make the increasing use of thugs a fatal attraction?
I think the invasion of NBT, marking the start of the “General Uprising,” shows an awareness that muscle was needed to back up any moral authority they laid claim to.
I’m not so sure things didn’t get out of control, with the tail starting to wag the dog.