haha, every egghead knows that no system is perfect. in every society there would be the “poor” who will pick on the poor – that’s the fallen nature of man; so let’s get real.
change has to come from within. outward, cosmetic humanism can only go so far in making the earth a better place.
and education is one important way to uplift the quality of life anywhere; especially in thailand – where democracy is skin deep and feudalism subtle & pervasive.
I have just learned from confidential sources in Mae Sot, Thailand of an attack on a Burmese Army convoy deep in the interior of Burma.
It has been reported that this convoy consisting of troops and an assortment of light weaponry was ambushed and that there were many Burmese soldiers killed and wounded.
The attackers were Europeans , possibly some Americans and others, who have been in-country since over a month ago doing hit and run attaks on the SPDC/DKBA positions in support of the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA).
I shall, upon receiving further information about this attack, pass onto your readers what I find out.
In the meantime if anyone out there has heard of any news as this it would be nice if they also would inform all of us about it.
I’ve been to the south. I worked in the south. I sailed with southerners. I listened to the hateful spew from green teeth mouths of good ol’ boys. I also watched these same good ol’ boys treat black crewmen exactly opposite of the things they said when he wasn’t around. Time and again. Day in and day out.
I earned that research by living it not reading it from some book that an egghead from some ivory tower wrote in an effort to publish or perish.
My degrees don’t make me better than other people doctor. Save that for your dissertation committee.
Re: bosunj:
Quote: “Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.”
Sadly, you haven’t a clue when I talk about equality in liberty, it does not mean the equality of outcome. Otherwise, as an avid tennis player, I should be able to demand the same results as Roger Federer on every match I played. Sounds absurd, doesn’t it?
Quote: “I have empathy for the suffering you experienced as a child. Children are often brutal to each other and that brutality can sear itself into ones soul.”
Actually, the “pure’ Thais who made those racist remarks against me not the children–but adults.
Quote: “I once chatted for several hours with the managing Abbot of Wat Thai in Los Angeles. One of the things took away from that conversation was the Abbot’s rueful realization that Thai people who live in America tend to become more American than Americans. This after I witnessed a Thai woman speaking rudely to the Abbot about the Wat’s education program and her son’s progress in it. ”
Correct me if I am wrong but I sense that you are once again confused, just because Thai women in America may have not been afraid of expressing their opinion, it doesn’t mean they are rude or “become more American”. This is the same as saying “American women are rude” and could be construed as a sexist remark on your part.
Quote:” K. Noi, I am happy that you have found a place that works well for you. It will be interesting see whether your view of America remains as strong in the coming months. ”
I am very disappointed with the last election cycle in the U.S. of the lack in quality of the candidates, but nevertheless, I respect the voice of the majority!
I’m curious to know whether his family have organised a petition either independantly throught their lawyer or in accompanyment with an organisation such as the UN to show support for his release and further, free speach in Thailand?
I would like to ask David Brown, what evidence beyond rumor and scuttle-butt, he has, to make statemnets like this :
“Right now the military and the rich families are trying to form a government, lots of money is flowing to change MP allegiances so that the government will be acceptable to the Bangkok rich families.”
I would further contest this wildely generalized opinion :
“The country people (buffaloes) and those that sympathise in the cities are not impressed with their votes to be over-ridden and their are threats of at least passive resistance by large numbers of people to what the rich families are engineering.”
I live in Thailand – the outskirts of Bangkok. This is not an “elite” part of the capital – in fact it has (former) PPP members as its parlimentary representatives. The Thai people I mix with, are what you would call, mostly “middle class”. They do not appear to see it, in this “old Euro-centic” stereotype way.They are also not “elite”.
I could speak about my Udon Thani in-laws too. For them, it is not a “class war”. They voted PPP/TRT, because, like in most “developed” democracies, PPP/TRT was the party who gave them benefits – or so they were told. “It’s all about the money” !
Stop portraying the non- Thaksin side as a bunch of “elites”.
There is obvious truth, in the short history of Thai Democracy, of exploitation of what could be called, the “ordinary voters”. But, I would also draw your attention to that happening, in what are considered to be more “developed” democracies, too.
May be too lately,but its gud see this debate.It was nice clarification on behalf of chandan.But I wonder,how many of indians does know about Arunachal.I m an arunachalee,studying in south.U know!Almost everybody(i mean everybody) tease us as nepali or chini and stare us as we are an alien.
It really sucks.Leave rural people,even some educated urban people doesnt know the existence of arunachal.Only thing we hear about Arunachal is when China claims her.
I wonder if Kelly really understands what is going on here in Thailand
the comment that she has approached the Thai people out of “compassion” suggests she may look down on the people… but this could be a misquote.
what really caught my eye is that she thinks that the people here are engaged in a contest between god and satan… this seems a very emotive description of what as is usual in human affairs is not a simple situation.
firstly the contest is between those in Thailand that favour full participation (democratic) elections to choose the government of Thailand and those that wish to return to government by the traditional rich families.
the interesting thing is that it is the PAD that wishes to disenfranchise the poor mainly rural voters, they call them uneducated, stupid and buffaloes on the stage that Kelly has graced. The same PAD people also talk in terms like god and satan, righteous and evil, etc.
Australians and westerners generally should recognise that the fledgling democratic system, that began with a new constitution that was written with much public participation in 1997, is under serious threat.
The series of democratic elections was upset by a military coup in 2006 and a new constitution in 2007 that specified some “selected” MPs to “balance” those chosen by democratic vote and many other clauses to limit the power of the parliament.
After the PAD occupied and forced the closure of Bangkoks two International airports for a week were supported by the constitution court, basing its decision on the 2007 constituion has just sacked the prime minister and dissolved three political parties that won the last election.
Right now the military and the rich families are trying to form a government, lots of money is flowing to change MP allegiances so thaat the government will be acceptable to the Bangkok rich families.
The country people (buffaloes) and those that sympathise in the cities are not impressed with their votes to be over-ridden and their are threats of at least passive resistance by large numbers of people to what the rich families are engineering.
Meanwhile, I just wonder if Kelly understands what she is part of and whether she is thinking clearly after spending time with Mr Sondhi who runs a small media empire, is the vociferous spokesperson for the PAD and mixes strident hate messages and invective with mystical events such as the famous “used sanitary napkins” to ward off evil spirits brought by Khmer to stop the power of a famous statue .
Sunday 7th December
I have just seen a Channel 7 (Perth) news segment about Harry’s plight. What a farce – the English press can write anything they like about the British Royal Family. I feel sorrow for the distress that Harry’s elderly parents are suffering.
It is time the Thai Royal Family used their powers to remove this archaic provision from their criminal code. Further, the Australian Journalists Association should become proactive on this issue to protect the right to free speech.
[…] (PAD) over the past 6 months. She has a ballad devoted to the King of Thailand that was mentioned on New Mandala ages ago. She has indicated that this particular song is a “gift from […]
Kevin, if you’d like to hear “some foaming about red-team death squad terrorists,” I believe you are welcome to foam right here. Why should you expect others to do your foaming?
Equating, as you seem to do, criticism of the PAD with “pro-Thaksin bias” is pure oversimplification. Would you say Ji Ungpakorn, perhaps the most outspoken critic of the PAD, is a Thaksin fan?
I’m guessing that you have not been reading New Mandala for very long. Just making a quick look back to jog my memory, I’d say that there have been a very limited number of purely “pro” and “anti” Thaksin items on this blog.
Links to “anti” items, such as articles by Chang Noi and Michael Connors, for example, appear to – I did not do a count – outnumber “pro” items, by contributors such as Republican, and references to positive evaluations of some of his rural pump-priming programs.
If it’s the comments that you feel show a bias, I’d say that’s like being unhappy about election results. You’re not accusing Andrew and Nicholas of comment fraud, are you? (That’s supposed to be a joke.)
There is no separate capital gains tax in Thailand. All earned income from capital gains is taxed the same as regular income.[2] However, if individual earns capital gain from security in the Stock Exchange of Thailand, it is exempted from personal income tax.
I don’t understand the pro-Thaksin bias of this website. When exactly did the white boys start caring about who got elected in Thailand? If they’re going to foam at the mouth about yellow-team lady terrorists at the airports, I’d like to hear some foaming about red-team death squad terrorists. It’s not that I love either side — it’s that it ill behooves farang academics to address the latest turn in Thai politics in such a brazenly unevenhanded way.
Aside from the occasional good-guy bad-guy talk on the part of the principals, it’s a great site which I check frequently. Thanks!
Leave it to a veteran observer, an “old hand” of Southeast Asian affairs like Bowring to provide both a concise overview of current events as well as an informed view of what might be seen over the horizon. Bowring alludes to the possibility of internal struggles within the palace, and although it would be impossible to find evidence of squabbles within the Walls of Chitralada in print, persistent rumors over the past several decades would seem to indicate that Shakespearean level intrigue does exist. The existence of internal divisions within the Royal Family would also explain their absence, and their continued absence, over the past few weeks. The only direct involvement was the rather unique attendance of Her Majesty the Queen at the funeral of the unfortunate PAD follower a few weeks ago. Clearly Bowring sees the dangers to the existence of the monarchy itself as the power vacuum within the palace sorts itself out.
Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.
Why don’t you? Perhaps instead of presuming to speak for us minorities, you could support your assertion with some statistics? That would make your argument stronger than just appealing to some people’s ignorance that the American South is still living under Jim Crow.
I once chatted for several hours with the managing Abbot of Wat Thai in Los Angeles. One of the things took away from that conversation was the Abbot’s rueful realization that Thai people who live in America tend to become more American than Americans. This after I witnessed a Thai woman speaking rudely to the Abbot about the Wat’s education program and her son’s progress in it.
And if said abbot truly believes that a member of the Sangha is free from criticism merely because he is a member of the Sangha, it would seem that Thai Americans are also more Buddhist than their native counterparts as well. (Let’s not even get into the Thai Sangha’s disgusting repression of bhikkhuni.)
As for everything else you wrote, it stinks of the logical fallacy that I happen to call argumentum ad turpem americensis. Indeed, I find it telling that the theme of your blog is that you chose to leave a democratic country with a quasi-market economy to reside in the paradise of a neo-corporatist raubwirtschaft.
And I wish you good luck in the future as well, sir.
bosunj said this:
“Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.”
-in reply to this:
“This historical moment for America is possible because of her extraordinary devotion to equality in liberty and to provide opportunity for individuals to achieve a better life.”
I think you are a bit stereotype-mired rather than fact-based in your assertion. African-Americans are most strongly represented in political office in the southern states of the US. (Here’s the first thing at hand I could find with some statistics, and at any rate it’s pretty intuitive for anyone who knows anything about US politics: http://www.blackcommentator.com/9_nul.html).
I can’t say I have looked into it, but I don’t think they are unhappy about that situation. It was achieved, of course, by a courageous and honestly non-violent struggle for one-man, one-vote electoral politics by legions of volunteers for civil rights.
Their battles of the 1950s and 60s were fought within the framework of the law, even when the decks were stacked against them. Doing jail time was another way of bearing moral witness.
I saw countless PAD supporters quoted as saying they were willing to die for their cause. But I don’t know anyone who was asking for that. I think they simply have a social obligation to be held accountable to law.
By chance I came across some interesting argument raised by John Milton.in the 17th century.
“A Tyrant whether by wrong or by right comming to the Crown, is he who regarding neither Law nor the common good, reigns onely for himself and his faction. …
It being thus manifest that the power of Kings and Magistrates is nothing else, but what is only derivative, transferr’d and committed to them in trust from the People, to the Common good of them all, in whom the power yet remaines fundamentally, and cannot be tak’n from them
a King, who governs to the good and profit of his People, and not for his own ends, it follows from necessary causes, that the Titles of Sov’ran Lord, natural Lord, and the like, are either arrogancies, or flatteries. …
And surely no Prince, not drunk with high mind, …, would arrogate so unreasonably above human condition, or derogate so basely from a whole Nation of men his Brethren, as if for him only subsisting, and to serve his glory; valuing them in comparison of his owne brute will and pleasure, no more then so many beasts, or vermin under his Feet, …; among whom there might be found so many thousand Men for wisdom, vertue, nobleness of mind, and all other respects, but the fortune of his dignity, farr above him.” http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/tenure/index.shtml
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New Mandala in The Age
haha, every egghead knows that no system is perfect. in every society there would be the “poor” who will pick on the poor – that’s the fallen nature of man; so let’s get real.
change has to come from within. outward, cosmetic humanism can only go so far in making the earth a better place.
and education is one important way to uplift the quality of life anywhere; especially in thailand – where democracy is skin deep and feudalism subtle & pervasive.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
I have just learned from confidential sources in Mae Sot, Thailand of an attack on a Burmese Army convoy deep in the interior of Burma.
It has been reported that this convoy consisting of troops and an assortment of light weaponry was ambushed and that there were many Burmese soldiers killed and wounded.
The attackers were Europeans , possibly some Americans and others, who have been in-country since over a month ago doing hit and run attaks on the SPDC/DKBA positions in support of the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA).
I shall, upon receiving further information about this attack, pass onto your readers what I find out.
In the meantime if anyone out there has heard of any news as this it would be nice if they also would inform all of us about it.
New Mandala in The Age
some people’s ignorance that the American South is still living under Jim Crow
Some peoples ignorance indeed:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/In_whitesonly_neighborhood_residents_worried_Bush_1206.html
I’ve been to the south. I worked in the south. I sailed with southerners. I listened to the hateful spew from green teeth mouths of good ol’ boys. I also watched these same good ol’ boys treat black crewmen exactly opposite of the things they said when he wasn’t around. Time and again. Day in and day out.
I earned that research by living it not reading it from some book that an egghead from some ivory tower wrote in an effort to publish or perish.
My degrees don’t make me better than other people doctor. Save that for your dissertation committee.
Chok dee.
New Mandala in The Age
Re: bosunj:
Quote: “Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.”
Sadly, you haven’t a clue when I talk about equality in liberty, it does not mean the equality of outcome. Otherwise, as an avid tennis player, I should be able to demand the same results as Roger Federer on every match I played. Sounds absurd, doesn’t it?
Quote: “I have empathy for the suffering you experienced as a child. Children are often brutal to each other and that brutality can sear itself into ones soul.”
Actually, the “pure’ Thais who made those racist remarks against me not the children–but adults.
Quote: “I once chatted for several hours with the managing Abbot of Wat Thai in Los Angeles. One of the things took away from that conversation was the Abbot’s rueful realization that Thai people who live in America tend to become more American than Americans. This after I witnessed a Thai woman speaking rudely to the Abbot about the Wat’s education program and her son’s progress in it. ”
Correct me if I am wrong but I sense that you are once again confused, just because Thai women in America may have not been afraid of expressing their opinion, it doesn’t mean they are rude or “become more American”. This is the same as saying “American women are rude” and could be construed as a sexist remark on your part.
Quote:” K. Noi, I am happy that you have found a place that works well for you. It will be interesting see whether your view of America remains as strong in the coming months. ”
I am very disappointed with the last election cycle in the U.S. of the lack in quality of the candidates, but nevertheless, I respect the voice of the majority!
Nicolaides: Australia should do more
I’m curious to know whether his family have organised a petition either independantly throught their lawyer or in accompanyment with an organisation such as the UN to show support for his release and further, free speach in Thailand?
Australian on the PAD stage
Geez … I think she’s been getting into the yaba.
Cleverly written article though … just let her hang herself with her own inane words.
Australian on the PAD stage
I would like to ask David Brown, what evidence beyond rumor and scuttle-butt, he has, to make statemnets like this :
“Right now the military and the rich families are trying to form a government, lots of money is flowing to change MP allegiances so that the government will be acceptable to the Bangkok rich families.”
I would further contest this wildely generalized opinion :
“The country people (buffaloes) and those that sympathise in the cities are not impressed with their votes to be over-ridden and their are threats of at least passive resistance by large numbers of people to what the rich families are engineering.”
I live in Thailand – the outskirts of Bangkok. This is not an “elite” part of the capital – in fact it has (former) PPP members as its parlimentary representatives. The Thai people I mix with, are what you would call, mostly “middle class”. They do not appear to see it, in this “old Euro-centic” stereotype way.They are also not “elite”.
I could speak about my Udon Thani in-laws too. For them, it is not a “class war”. They voted PPP/TRT, because, like in most “developed” democracies, PPP/TRT was the party who gave them benefits – or so they were told. “It’s all about the money” !
Stop portraying the non- Thaksin side as a bunch of “elites”.
There is obvious truth, in the short history of Thai Democracy, of exploitation of what could be called, the “ordinary voters”. But, I would also draw your attention to that happening, in what are considered to be more “developed” democracies, too.
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
I emailed a few news editors as to why the silence in Australia when the story was first published in the bangkok post.
I recieved no reply.
^ from October
I also emailed the Prime Minister ..No responce
“Arunachal Pradesh…exotically yours”
May be too lately,but its gud see this debate.It was nice clarification on behalf of chandan.But I wonder,how many of indians does know about Arunachal.I m an arunachalee,studying in south.U know!Almost everybody(i mean everybody) tease us as nepali or chini and stare us as we are an alien.
It really sucks.Leave rural people,even some educated urban people doesnt know the existence of arunachal.Only thing we hear about Arunachal is when China claims her.
Australian on the PAD stage
I wonder if Kelly really understands what is going on here in Thailand
the comment that she has approached the Thai people out of “compassion” suggests she may look down on the people… but this could be a misquote.
what really caught my eye is that she thinks that the people here are engaged in a contest between god and satan… this seems a very emotive description of what as is usual in human affairs is not a simple situation.
firstly the contest is between those in Thailand that favour full participation (democratic) elections to choose the government of Thailand and those that wish to return to government by the traditional rich families.
the interesting thing is that it is the PAD that wishes to disenfranchise the poor mainly rural voters, they call them uneducated, stupid and buffaloes on the stage that Kelly has graced. The same PAD people also talk in terms like god and satan, righteous and evil, etc.
Australians and westerners generally should recognise that the fledgling democratic system, that began with a new constitution that was written with much public participation in 1997, is under serious threat.
The series of democratic elections was upset by a military coup in 2006 and a new constitution in 2007 that specified some “selected” MPs to “balance” those chosen by democratic vote and many other clauses to limit the power of the parliament.
After the PAD occupied and forced the closure of Bangkoks two International airports for a week were supported by the constitution court, basing its decision on the 2007 constituion has just sacked the prime minister and dissolved three political parties that won the last election.
Right now the military and the rich families are trying to form a government, lots of money is flowing to change MP allegiances so thaat the government will be acceptable to the Bangkok rich families.
The country people (buffaloes) and those that sympathise in the cities are not impressed with their votes to be over-ridden and their are threats of at least passive resistance by large numbers of people to what the rich families are engineering.
Meanwhile, I just wonder if Kelly understands what she is part of and whether she is thinking clearly after spending time with Mr Sondhi who runs a small media empire, is the vociferous spokesperson for the PAD and mixes strident hate messages and invective with mystical events such as the famous “used sanitary napkins” to ward off evil spirits brought by Khmer to stop the power of a famous statue .
Lèse majesté and Harry Nicolaides
Sunday 7th December
I have just seen a Channel 7 (Perth) news segment about Harry’s plight. What a farce – the English press can write anything they like about the British Royal Family. I feel sorrow for the distress that Harry’s elderly parents are suffering.
It is time the Thai Royal Family used their powers to remove this archaic provision from their criminal code. Further, the Australian Journalists Association should become proactive on this issue to protect the right to free speech.
Australian on the PAD stage
Barf.
Or does that belong in the Four-Letter-Word thread?
“A husband, a father and a king…”
[…] (PAD) over the past 6 months. She has a ballad devoted to the King of Thailand that was mentioned on New Mandala ages ago. She has indicated that this particular song is a “gift from […]
PAD’s by-election poison
Kevin, if you’d like to hear “some foaming about red-team death squad terrorists,” I believe you are welcome to foam right here. Why should you expect others to do your foaming?
Equating, as you seem to do, criticism of the PAD with “pro-Thaksin bias” is pure oversimplification. Would you say Ji Ungpakorn, perhaps the most outspoken critic of the PAD, is a Thaksin fan?
I’m guessing that you have not been reading New Mandala for very long. Just making a quick look back to jog my memory, I’d say that there have been a very limited number of purely “pro” and “anti” Thaksin items on this blog.
Links to “anti” items, such as articles by Chang Noi and Michael Connors, for example, appear to – I did not do a count – outnumber “pro” items, by contributors such as Republican, and references to positive evaluations of some of his rural pump-priming programs.
If it’s the comments that you feel show a bias, I’d say that’s like being unhappy about election results. You’re not accusing Andrew and Nicholas of comment fraud, are you? (That’s supposed to be a joke.)
PAD’s by-election poison
Thailand
There is no separate capital gains tax in Thailand. All earned income from capital gains is taxed the same as regular income.[2] However, if individual earns capital gain from security in the Stock Exchange of Thailand, it is exempted from personal income tax.
PAD’s by-election poison
I don’t understand the pro-Thaksin bias of this website. When exactly did the white boys start caring about who got elected in Thailand? If they’re going to foam at the mouth about yellow-team lady terrorists at the airports, I’d like to hear some foaming about red-team death squad terrorists. It’s not that I love either side — it’s that it ill behooves farang academics to address the latest turn in Thai politics in such a brazenly unevenhanded way.
Aside from the occasional good-guy bad-guy talk on the part of the principals, it’s a great site which I check frequently. Thanks!
The crowd and the crown by Philip Bowring
Leave it to a veteran observer, an “old hand” of Southeast Asian affairs like Bowring to provide both a concise overview of current events as well as an informed view of what might be seen over the horizon. Bowring alludes to the possibility of internal struggles within the palace, and although it would be impossible to find evidence of squabbles within the Walls of Chitralada in print, persistent rumors over the past several decades would seem to indicate that Shakespearean level intrigue does exist. The existence of internal divisions within the Royal Family would also explain their absence, and their continued absence, over the past few weeks. The only direct involvement was the rather unique attendance of Her Majesty the Queen at the funeral of the unfortunate PAD follower a few weeks ago. Clearly Bowring sees the dangers to the existence of the monarchy itself as the power vacuum within the palace sorts itself out.
New Mandala in The Age
re: bosunj
Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.
Why don’t you? Perhaps instead of presuming to speak for us minorities, you could support your assertion with some statistics? That would make your argument stronger than just appealing to some people’s ignorance that the American South is still living under Jim Crow.
I once chatted for several hours with the managing Abbot of Wat Thai in Los Angeles. One of the things took away from that conversation was the Abbot’s rueful realization that Thai people who live in America tend to become more American than Americans. This after I witnessed a Thai woman speaking rudely to the Abbot about the Wat’s education program and her son’s progress in it.
And if said abbot truly believes that a member of the Sangha is free from criticism merely because he is a member of the Sangha, it would seem that Thai Americans are also more Buddhist than their native counterparts as well. (Let’s not even get into the Thai Sangha’s disgusting repression of bhikkhuni.)
As for everything else you wrote, it stinks of the logical fallacy that I happen to call argumentum ad turpem americensis. Indeed, I find it telling that the theme of your blog is that you chose to leave a democratic country with a quasi-market economy to reside in the paradise of a neo-corporatist raubwirtschaft.
And I wish you good luck in the future as well, sir.
New Mandala in The Age
bosunj said this:
“Go to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, or Arkansas and ask black people living there their opinion of your statement.”
-in reply to this:
“This historical moment for America is possible because of her extraordinary devotion to equality in liberty and to provide opportunity for individuals to achieve a better life.”
I think you are a bit stereotype-mired rather than fact-based in your assertion. African-Americans are most strongly represented in political office in the southern states of the US. (Here’s the first thing at hand I could find with some statistics, and at any rate it’s pretty intuitive for anyone who knows anything about US politics: http://www.blackcommentator.com/9_nul.html).
I can’t say I have looked into it, but I don’t think they are unhappy about that situation. It was achieved, of course, by a courageous and honestly non-violent struggle for one-man, one-vote electoral politics by legions of volunteers for civil rights.
Their battles of the 1950s and 60s were fought within the framework of the law, even when the decks were stacked against them. Doing jail time was another way of bearing moral witness.
I saw countless PAD supporters quoted as saying they were willing to die for their cause. But I don’t know anyone who was asking for that. I think they simply have a social obligation to be held accountable to law.
PPP gone…
By chance I came across some interesting argument raised by John Milton.in the 17th century.
“A Tyrant whether by wrong or by right comming to the Crown, is he who regarding neither Law nor the common good, reigns onely for himself and his faction. …
It being thus manifest that the power of Kings and Magistrates is nothing else, but what is only derivative, transferr’d and committed to them in trust from the People, to the Common good of them all, in whom the power yet remaines fundamentally, and cannot be tak’n from them
a King, who governs to the good and profit of his People, and not for his own ends, it follows from necessary causes, that the Titles of Sov’ran Lord, natural Lord, and the like, are either arrogancies, or flatteries. …
And surely no Prince, not drunk with high mind, …, would arrogate so unreasonably above human condition, or derogate so basely from a whole Nation of men his Brethren, as if for him only subsisting, and to serve his glory; valuing them in comparison of his owne brute will and pleasure, no more then so many beasts, or vermin under his Feet, …; among whom there might be found so many thousand Men for wisdom, vertue, nobleness of mind, and all other respects, but the fortune of his dignity, farr above him.” http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/tenure/index.shtml