It was actually from the 1st. But you think those two reports are the kind of information that help Australians understand what’s happening in Thailand? They are both uninformed and un-informing. The ABC can do better. There is no analysis, no background, no evidence of even reading the local press or blogs. BBC has been doing better by far.
Looks alright to me. The only thing that I find odd is her use of ‘tit -for -tat’ (implying that it was done for revenge) in “There was a young women killed in a tear-gas tit-for-tat” (re. Oct.7). But over-all the rather brief piece is factually correct & contains no wild speculation.
As Thailand continues its decent into political and economic ruin I find the following definition rather apt: “Banana Republic is a pejorative term for a small country that is politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture (e.g., bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and corrupt clique.” Though Thailand’s economy may not be dependent upon agriculture (yet) the self-proclaimed righteous of the opposing factions seem bent on fulfilling this definition. Incidentally, “Banana republics are typically highly prone to revolutions and coups.”
I have a start up legal website in Australia that would like to post your Update featured today on Rod’s New Matilda,
I would mention the update was first published on NM – Rod knows us and I always link back – and I would of course mention your own site with an active link.
I am doing my editorial page today so would be out Thursday on
Hi David, I am actually coming from Austria. I do believe in democracy but the representative form does have some strong disadvantages (negative selection of politician etc. – seen in an European context) therefore it is not really bad to think about improvements – which does not mean nominated parliaments.
In the Thai case I feel that the ‘interests of the people’ have been hijacked by Thaksin and his group for their own interests. As much as the interests of the middle class have been hijacked by a very undemocratic group. Therefore we find ourselves between a ‘rock and an hard place’. I am wishing for a third alternative even it is not really visible yet but it may evolve. Therefore I am also not for quick solutions by force.
As to the ‘poor’, I really want to remind everyone that the group who is basically now owning the economy came two, three generations ago as rice coolies with nothing then there rugged clothes on and worked themselves up without any help from any governments – actually quite the opposite. With all love I feel for the Thai people I must say that they – ‘in a statistical average’ – are not extremly ambitious and a good day is one in which they were sitting around all day long. I am all for a fair distribution of economic resources but based on contributions and not on handouts. This is not fair to the ones who work day in, day out.
as a farang (like me) maybe you dont know how bad the drugs problem was becoming….
the Thaksin drug war was successful in its objectives of substantially suppressing the drug trade generally and drug taking in Thailand
and it really inconvenienced and annoyed some of the rich that were making money from the trade
so, how much of the tragedy is a beatup by the rich and powerful and how many deaths should legitimately have been pursued as unnecessary outcomes?
since that drug war, the drug trade has grown again, notably over the CNS period, which is why there have been further attempts early this year and just lately to try to suppress it again
drugs as you should know are a despicable problem and Thailand is in the centre of supply so especially vulnerable… i think instead of whingeing, people should ask themselves and propose what they believe should be done about the problem?
Do you have suggestions or only criticisms?
What can i say about the South, the problem continues… i think the same question applies…
for Sondhi (the master of blaming other people for his own faults) its really easy to criticise… i keep waiting to hear any positive suggestions from him!
how about the PAD leaders and their guards get thrown in jail for a very long time, never to destroy the credibility of the country’s institutions again?
According to the legal standards followed by the Consitutional Court, the authorities are obligated to…
…oh yea, i forgot that i was looking at the results of the Burmese referendum. it seems that constitution kept the will of the people right where the generals wanted it, dead or in jail, in no place to insult the royal Sh’we’.
A little introspection and an admission to its shortcomings on behalf of TRT and its proxies would do nothing but good for the party’s successor. It might even win back some of the support it lost over the conduct of its despicable anti-drug and far-South campaigns for example.
This would then establish a clearer choice for Thai electors, many of whom now neither support PAD or TRT proxies (that is, those whose wardrobes are strictly neutral).
As I have posted elsewhere on NM, the onus is then on PAD to admit to its own failings (a forlorn hope?) and form a legitimate party of its own, pushing its own agenda, particularly as the Democrats remain as indecisive as ever.
As a farang who should probably shut up and mind his own business, I write here in hope!
If there is now to be an interim administration, does that imply new elections in the near future?
If so, then now is the ideal opportunity for the PAD to form a new party, stack their party list ticket with their ‘good and able’ people, and take their agenda to the electorate. This then would act as a true test of the national support they claim to have.
Should they win government (seems unlikely), then under a democratic system the Thai constituency must live with their decision (also seems unlikely). If not, then form a robust opposition acting within parliament. Simple.
MawHom: Thank you very much, I truly appreciate it.
How long will the PAD, basically a court-backed crony militia, be able to get away with destroying the country and labelling its opposition (The majority of Thais, Thai-Laos, and Thai Khmers) as ciphers for Thaksin when it is so clear that they are but the tools of the ‘educated’, ‘enlightened’, and ‘superior’ folks who have bankrolled this supremely disingenuous, spiteful, and malicious campaign of terror.
If you guys think the Thai media have not woken up yet, we should all check out the web-based independent new source http://www.prachatai.com (both English and Thai). Do read the recent post from the controversial professor of Chulalongkorn University. Time and time again, he has been brave to voice his opinion about the “unmentionable” institution.
A Second “Coup for the Rich”
Giles Ji Ungpakorn
Today the Constitutional Courts dissolved the democratically elected governing party in Thailand for the second time, forcing the Government to resign. This follows the refusal of the Armed Forces and the Police to follow government instructions to clear the two international airports blocked by armed PAD Fascists. The Royalist alliance against the government are made up of the Fascist PAD, the Military, the Police, the Judiciary, the mainstream Media, the “Democrat Party”, most middle class academics and The Queen. They are all behind this judicial coup. A leading “Democrat Party” MP is one of the leaders of the illegal blockade of the two airports. The Yellow-shirted PAD have “armed guards” which have repeatedly shot at opponents. They constantly use violence and now demand “joint patrols” with the Police. The PAD have constantly broken the law, and yet they are “untouchable”. On the rare occasion when PAD leaders are forced to attend court, they are given bail and allowed to go back and commit the same crimes over and over again.
The majority of the Thai population, who are poor, face a Double Whammy. First, the elite Royalist are doing everything possible to take away their basic democratic rights. Secondly, mass job-losses are occurring among workers in the tourist industry as a result of the airport blockade. Jobs in agriculture and electronics are also affected and of course we are faced with the serious World Economic Crisis. The elites do not care if the Thai economy is trashed and Thailand returns to a poor Third World nation. In such nations the elites continue to live the same lives as the rich in the Developed World. The PAD protestors are middle-class extremists who do not have to go to work, hence their prolonged protests.
We are constantly told by the conservatives that the poor are “too stupid to deserve the right to vote”. The army staged a coup in 2006 and re-wrote the Constitution in order to reduce the democratic space and also to absolve themselves of any wrong-doing. The electorate have repeatedly voted in overwhelming numbers for the government party, whether it be Thai Rak Thai or Peoples Power Party. Now Peoples Power politicians are moving to the new Pua Thai Party. Will fair election be held? Or will the elites engineer a “fix” to make sure that their people win?
What is the root cause of this crisis?
The root cause of this crisis is not the corruption of the Thaksin government in the past. It isn’t about vote-buying, good governance, civil rights or the Rule of Law. Politicians of all parties, including the Democrats, are known to buy votes. The elites, whether Politicians, Civil Servants or Military, have a history of gross corruption. Even when they don’t break the law, they have become rich on the backs of Thai workers and small farmers. The Democrat Party is stuffed with such millionaires.
Ironically, the Thai Rak Thai party was helping to reduce the importance of vote-buying because it was the first party in decades to have real policies which were beneficial to the poor. They introduced a universal health care scheme and Keynesian Village Funds. People voted on the basis of such policies. The Democrats and the conservative elites hate the alliance between Thaksin’s business party and the poor. They hate the idea that a government was using public funds to improve the lives of the poor. This is why the anti-government alliance is against democracy. The PAD have suggested reducing the number of elected MPs and a recipe to do away with the principle of “one person one vote”. So the root cause of the problem is the conservative elite’s contempt for the poor and their contempt for democracy. They are prepared to break the law when it suits them.
What is the solution?
Business leaders and the Royalist elites are demanding an un-elected National Government. The Democrat Party leader has “volunteered” to be the Prime Minister! Such a National Government would complete the judicial coup for the rich. It would be a victory for the PAD and a defeat for the electorate.
The Red Shirts, who are organised by government politicians, are the only hope for Thai democracy. They have now become a genuine pro-democracy mass movement of the poor. This is what is meant by “Civil Society”, not the PAD fascists. Thai academia fails to grasp this basic fact. But the Red Shirts are not a “pure force”. Many have illusion is ex-Prime Minister Thaksin. They overlook his gross abuse of human rights in the South and the War on Drugs. But these human rights issues are also totally ignored by the PAD and their friends.
Throughout this 3 year crisis, the majority of the Thai NGO movement (especially the NGO-Coordinating Committee) has failed to support democracy. Many welcomed the 2006 military coup. Many supported the military Constitution. Now they are either silent or are echoing the demands of the Army Chief, who said last week that the government should resign. At no point have they attempted to build a pro-democracy social movement. Many believe that the poor are “uneducated and lack enough information to vote”. The honourable examples are the Midnight University in Chiang-Mai, some sections of the labour movement, groups of new generation NGO activists and Turn Left.
The economic crisis
Millions of jobs are being destroyed by the World Economic Crisis and the unrest in Thai society. People are being driven back into poverty. Yet the Democrat Party, the Military, the conservative elites and the mainstream NGO movement do not have a clue or do not care one jot about the necessary policies to defend the living standards of the poor. They make chants about the King’s Sufficiency Economy and the need for Fiscal Discipline. In other words, the poor must trim their spending and learn to live with their poverty while the rich continue to live in luxury.
We desperately need massive government spending on infrastructure, job protection and a serious expansion of welfare. Value Added Tax should be reduced or abolished and higher direct taxes should be levied on all the rich elites without any exceptions. The bloated military budget should be cut. Wages should be raised among workers. Poor farmers should be protected. This will only happen in a climate of genuine democracy. This is why we must oppose this second “Coup for the Rich”.
What is obvious Morgan is that like many misguided people you judge quality of life by the amount of Baht you can make or have. That is sad. To have gotten caught up in consumerist silliness that is ultimately unsatisfactory because you can never have enough, there is always something new that you just can’t live without. All you do is transfer your wealth and freedom (as in slave to money and stuff) to some corporate loser like Thaksin or any corporate scumbag. Very sad.
As for a deep black hole you fear, the whole world is headed into a deep black hole caused by the kind of extremist-capitalist model America has embraced and shoved down the throats of many countries. Everything the so-called experts are doing is making the situation worse by the day. The biggest economy on the planet has CREATED out of thin air more than 7 TRILLION dollars since September! More than 60% of GDP! In THREE months. And, it hasn’t worked! Nothing is working. Governance world wide is broken beyond repair! The scary deep black hole you fear is even scarier, deeper and darker than you can imagine.
If it makes you feel better to blame the deep black hole on PAD, or al Qaeda or the tooth fairy so you can get to sleep at night then go right ahead.
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Thai Rak Thai 3.0
is it “POPULIST” the right definition for the TRT social politic?
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
Thanks Ralph! Three clappers in each hand and the obligatory head band! Chok dee
End of the royal taboo?
It was actually from the 1st. But you think those two reports are the kind of information that help Australians understand what’s happening in Thailand? They are both uninformed and un-informing. The ABC can do better. There is no analysis, no background, no evidence of even reading the local press or blogs. BBC has been doing better by far.
End of the royal taboo?
Ralph Kramden @18- What exactly was ‘truly uninformed’ about Karen Percy’s AM report on 02.12.2008? The transcript is at
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2435067.htm
Looks alright to me. The only thing that I find odd is her use of ‘tit -for -tat’ (implying that it was done for revenge) in “There was a young women killed in a tear-gas tit-for-tat” (re. Oct.7). But over-all the rather brief piece is factually correct & contains no wild speculation.
Please enlighten me.
PPP gone…
Blocking the airports, among other violences committed by PAD and it’s gaurds are unacceptable and unlawful.
Chatri Moonstan
Ph.D Candidate
PPP gone…
As Thailand continues its decent into political and economic ruin I find the following definition rather apt: “Banana Republic is a pejorative term for a small country that is politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture (e.g., bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and corrupt clique.” Though Thailand’s economy may not be dependent upon agriculture (yet) the self-proclaimed righteous of the opposing factions seem bent on fulfilling this definition. Incidentally, “Banana republics are typically highly prone to revolutions and coups.”
New Mandala on New Matilda
Hi – a great site and perspective from SE Asia.
I have a start up legal website in Australia that would like to post your Update featured today on Rod’s New Matilda,
I would mention the update was first published on NM – Rod knows us and I always link back – and I would of course mention your own site with an active link.
I am doing my editorial page today so would be out Thursday on
http://www.foolkit.com.au/sa/lawyers/foolchat
many thanks
Nick Ramage
Editor – FK Legal
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
bosunj: I just thought it was a typo from using your clappers to type 😉
New Mandala in The Age
Hi David, I am actually coming from Austria. I do believe in democracy but the representative form does have some strong disadvantages (negative selection of politician etc. – seen in an European context) therefore it is not really bad to think about improvements – which does not mean nominated parliaments.
In the Thai case I feel that the ‘interests of the people’ have been hijacked by Thaksin and his group for their own interests. As much as the interests of the middle class have been hijacked by a very undemocratic group. Therefore we find ourselves between a ‘rock and an hard place’. I am wishing for a third alternative even it is not really visible yet but it may evolve. Therefore I am also not for quick solutions by force.
As to the ‘poor’, I really want to remind everyone that the group who is basically now owning the economy came two, three generations ago as rice coolies with nothing then there rugged clothes on and worked themselves up without any help from any governments – actually quite the opposite. With all love I feel for the Thai people I must say that they – ‘in a statistical average’ – are not extremly ambitious and a good day is one in which they were sitting around all day long. I am all for a fair distribution of economic resources but based on contributions and not on handouts. This is not fair to the ones who work day in, day out.
Thai Rak Thai 3.0
hi Tony…
as a farang (like me) maybe you dont know how bad the drugs problem was becoming….
the Thaksin drug war was successful in its objectives of substantially suppressing the drug trade generally and drug taking in Thailand
and it really inconvenienced and annoyed some of the rich that were making money from the trade
so, how much of the tragedy is a beatup by the rich and powerful and how many deaths should legitimately have been pursued as unnecessary outcomes?
since that drug war, the drug trade has grown again, notably over the CNS period, which is why there have been further attempts early this year and just lately to try to suppress it again
drugs as you should know are a despicable problem and Thailand is in the centre of supply so especially vulnerable… i think instead of whingeing, people should ask themselves and propose what they believe should be done about the problem?
Do you have suggestions or only criticisms?
What can i say about the South, the problem continues… i think the same question applies…
for Sondhi (the master of blaming other people for his own faults) its really easy to criticise… i keep waiting to hear any positive suggestions from him!
PPP gone…
how about the PAD leaders and their guards get thrown in jail for a very long time, never to destroy the credibility of the country’s institutions again?
According to the legal standards followed by the Consitutional Court, the authorities are obligated to…
…oh yea, i forgot that i was looking at the results of the Burmese referendum. it seems that constitution kept the will of the people right where the generals wanted it, dead or in jail, in no place to insult the royal Sh’we’.
Thai Rak Thai 3.0
A little introspection and an admission to its shortcomings on behalf of TRT and its proxies would do nothing but good for the party’s successor. It might even win back some of the support it lost over the conduct of its despicable anti-drug and far-South campaigns for example.
This would then establish a clearer choice for Thai electors, many of whom now neither support PAD or TRT proxies (that is, those whose wardrobes are strictly neutral).
As I have posted elsewhere on NM, the onus is then on PAD to admit to its own failings (a forlorn hope?) and form a legitimate party of its own, pushing its own agenda, particularly as the Democrats remain as indecisive as ever.
As a farang who should probably shut up and mind his own business, I write here in hope!
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
Sorry, I was so angry I wrongly wrote Matichon where I should have written Matchimatipataya.
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
“once again, unseating a democratically-elected government” ?????????
Weren’t you paying attention? The Justices ruled unanimously that PPP, Matichon and Chart Thai were guilty of election fraud!
There hasn’t been a legitimate government in Thailand since Thaksin first took office.
Grade 4 travel advisory…for Bangkok
Aussies: Drunken mamma’s boys and overbearing screeching cows. Perhaps Bali is a better choice for you?
PPP gone…
If there is now to be an interim administration, does that imply new elections in the near future?
If so, then now is the ideal opportunity for the PAD to form a new party, stack their party list ticket with their ‘good and able’ people, and take their agenda to the electorate. This then would act as a true test of the national support they claim to have.
Should they win government (seems unlikely), then under a democratic system the Thai constituency must live with their decision (also seems unlikely). If not, then form a robust opposition acting within parliament. Simple.
PPP gone…
MawHom: Thank you very much, I truly appreciate it.
How long will the PAD, basically a court-backed crony militia, be able to get away with destroying the country and labelling its opposition (The majority of Thais, Thai-Laos, and Thai Khmers) as ciphers for Thaksin when it is so clear that they are but the tools of the ‘educated’, ‘enlightened’, and ‘superior’ folks who have bankrolled this supremely disingenuous, spiteful, and malicious campaign of terror.
End of the royal taboo?
If you guys think the Thai media have not woken up yet, we should all check out the web-based independent new source http://www.prachatai.com (both English and Thai). Do read the recent post from the controversial professor of Chulalongkorn University. Time and time again, he has been brave to voice his opinion about the “unmentionable” institution.
A Second “Coup for the Rich”
Giles Ji Ungpakorn
Today the Constitutional Courts dissolved the democratically elected governing party in Thailand for the second time, forcing the Government to resign. This follows the refusal of the Armed Forces and the Police to follow government instructions to clear the two international airports blocked by armed PAD Fascists. The Royalist alliance against the government are made up of the Fascist PAD, the Military, the Police, the Judiciary, the mainstream Media, the “Democrat Party”, most middle class academics and The Queen. They are all behind this judicial coup. A leading “Democrat Party” MP is one of the leaders of the illegal blockade of the two airports. The Yellow-shirted PAD have “armed guards” which have repeatedly shot at opponents. They constantly use violence and now demand “joint patrols” with the Police. The PAD have constantly broken the law, and yet they are “untouchable”. On the rare occasion when PAD leaders are forced to attend court, they are given bail and allowed to go back and commit the same crimes over and over again.
The majority of the Thai population, who are poor, face a Double Whammy. First, the elite Royalist are doing everything possible to take away their basic democratic rights. Secondly, mass job-losses are occurring among workers in the tourist industry as a result of the airport blockade. Jobs in agriculture and electronics are also affected and of course we are faced with the serious World Economic Crisis. The elites do not care if the Thai economy is trashed and Thailand returns to a poor Third World nation. In such nations the elites continue to live the same lives as the rich in the Developed World. The PAD protestors are middle-class extremists who do not have to go to work, hence their prolonged protests.
We are constantly told by the conservatives that the poor are “too stupid to deserve the right to vote”. The army staged a coup in 2006 and re-wrote the Constitution in order to reduce the democratic space and also to absolve themselves of any wrong-doing. The electorate have repeatedly voted in overwhelming numbers for the government party, whether it be Thai Rak Thai or Peoples Power Party. Now Peoples Power politicians are moving to the new Pua Thai Party. Will fair election be held? Or will the elites engineer a “fix” to make sure that their people win?
What is the root cause of this crisis?
The root cause of this crisis is not the corruption of the Thaksin government in the past. It isn’t about vote-buying, good governance, civil rights or the Rule of Law. Politicians of all parties, including the Democrats, are known to buy votes. The elites, whether Politicians, Civil Servants or Military, have a history of gross corruption. Even when they don’t break the law, they have become rich on the backs of Thai workers and small farmers. The Democrat Party is stuffed with such millionaires.
Ironically, the Thai Rak Thai party was helping to reduce the importance of vote-buying because it was the first party in decades to have real policies which were beneficial to the poor. They introduced a universal health care scheme and Keynesian Village Funds. People voted on the basis of such policies. The Democrats and the conservative elites hate the alliance between Thaksin’s business party and the poor. They hate the idea that a government was using public funds to improve the lives of the poor. This is why the anti-government alliance is against democracy. The PAD have suggested reducing the number of elected MPs and a recipe to do away with the principle of “one person one vote”. So the root cause of the problem is the conservative elite’s contempt for the poor and their contempt for democracy. They are prepared to break the law when it suits them.
What is the solution?
Business leaders and the Royalist elites are demanding an un-elected National Government. The Democrat Party leader has “volunteered” to be the Prime Minister! Such a National Government would complete the judicial coup for the rich. It would be a victory for the PAD and a defeat for the electorate.
The Red Shirts, who are organised by government politicians, are the only hope for Thai democracy. They have now become a genuine pro-democracy mass movement of the poor. This is what is meant by “Civil Society”, not the PAD fascists. Thai academia fails to grasp this basic fact. But the Red Shirts are not a “pure force”. Many have illusion is ex-Prime Minister Thaksin. They overlook his gross abuse of human rights in the South and the War on Drugs. But these human rights issues are also totally ignored by the PAD and their friends.
Throughout this 3 year crisis, the majority of the Thai NGO movement (especially the NGO-Coordinating Committee) has failed to support democracy. Many welcomed the 2006 military coup. Many supported the military Constitution. Now they are either silent or are echoing the demands of the Army Chief, who said last week that the government should resign. At no point have they attempted to build a pro-democracy social movement. Many believe that the poor are “uneducated and lack enough information to vote”. The honourable examples are the Midnight University in Chiang-Mai, some sections of the labour movement, groups of new generation NGO activists and Turn Left.
The economic crisis
Millions of jobs are being destroyed by the World Economic Crisis and the unrest in Thai society. People are being driven back into poverty. Yet the Democrat Party, the Military, the conservative elites and the mainstream NGO movement do not have a clue or do not care one jot about the necessary policies to defend the living standards of the poor. They make chants about the King’s Sufficiency Economy and the need for Fiscal Discipline. In other words, the poor must trim their spending and learn to live with their poverty while the rich continue to live in luxury.
We desperately need massive government spending on infrastructure, job protection and a serious expansion of welfare. Value Added Tax should be reduced or abolished and higher direct taxes should be levied on all the rich elites without any exceptions. The bloated military budget should be cut. Wages should be raised among workers. Poor farmers should be protected. This will only happen in a climate of genuine democracy. This is why we must oppose this second “Coup for the Rich”.
Restraint is discredited
Marty, wow!
The PAD exhibits all those evils you imagine and Thai society as a whole does not?
I rest my case.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
What is obvious Morgan is that like many misguided people you judge quality of life by the amount of Baht you can make or have. That is sad. To have gotten caught up in consumerist silliness that is ultimately unsatisfactory because you can never have enough, there is always something new that you just can’t live without. All you do is transfer your wealth and freedom (as in slave to money and stuff) to some corporate loser like Thaksin or any corporate scumbag. Very sad.
As for a deep black hole you fear, the whole world is headed into a deep black hole caused by the kind of extremist-capitalist model America has embraced and shoved down the throats of many countries. Everything the so-called experts are doing is making the situation worse by the day. The biggest economy on the planet has CREATED out of thin air more than 7 TRILLION dollars since September! More than 60% of GDP! In THREE months. And, it hasn’t worked! Nothing is working. Governance world wide is broken beyond repair! The scary deep black hole you fear is even scarier, deeper and darker than you can imagine.
If it makes you feel better to blame the deep black hole on PAD, or al Qaeda or the tooth fairy so you can get to sleep at night then go right ahead.
Chok dee