amberwaves – The truly frightening aspect of PAD is that they are using standard brainwashing tactics the same as the communists did in the vietnam era. Collect your people and bombard them with your line until they are re-educated. You have to stop and ask yourself why every PAD supporter spouts the exact same line in the exact same order.
While there are problems with Thailand’s democracy the problems do not lie squarely on the government (TRT/PPP), the Democrats are just as much to blame for failing to offer any form or realistic opposition with ideas that are sound, The EC has to be fair they cannot target a political group or an ideology as they have once again ( A democrat exec was caught buying votes but they decided to only prosecute the Government), the courts have to act responsibly (they cannot let the PAD free while dissolving the PPPetc) and the military has to be firmly purged of all the elements that also have blame squarely on their shoulders by showing their view by their non action to the country in time of crisis.
The main problem with the PAD is that the leadership is so disjointed with their own individual ideas, often based on hate, that they do not have a cohesive idea of what they want and every day they want something different.
Max: The statement makes several points about the procedure used by the Constitutional Court (not allowing all witnesses for PPP to speak; allowing PPP only 2 hours to present its case) as well as calling into question the integrity of some of the members of the Court (one member’s wife is alleged to have been active in PAD demonstrations). It ends by noting that these irregularities are likely to lead Thai people to call the integrity of the court into question, and to see the ruling as an alternative means of accomplishing a coup.
The real question is whether Thaksin will direct Puea Thai–the new container for old TRT and PPP MPs–to appoint one of his sisters as its head. If that’s the case, and if they continue to maintain a solid majority in parliament, then we can expect a massive–and more violent–resurgence of PAD activity.
The ruling of the Constitutional Court is merely a brief reprieve designed to save face for a certain someone’s upcoming birthday. Once Puea Thai regroups, you can expect the last week to be replayed, with a vengeance.
Absolute monarchy in the modern world? Do you really want to extend les majesty to every decision of the all-powerful royal government? If you do, an underground opposition to the ruling monarch will inevitably form over time (Khana Ratsadorn could resurrect). Revisiting the history of Rama VII might be useful here.
Also, before taking on absolute power, advice from ex-King Gyanendra of Nepal would be prudent. His grab of absolute power led to the end of monarchy in Nepal. And “regency”? Try reading Nepal’s history on regency and convince yourself that its a good idea for Thailand.
It is obvious that it will take time to reopen the airport not to ‘satisfy int’l authorites’ but because the whole place has been occupied by a bunch of half wits who have disconnected the cctv cameras and generally made a huge mess of a delicate mechanism. Even the computer systems will take time to reboot and re calibrate – this aiport will not be able to function as it was for weeks or even months so say bye bye to a huge percentage of the tourists who would have come for the holiday season, and also to all the business people who will take their custom to more reliable nations like India and Bangladesh. Its a sad situation for Thailand. The PAD have done far more damage to Thailand than Thaksin ever did – I am no fan of Thaksin but under his rule Thai thrived economically and now it is headed for a deep black hole which it could take years to get out of.
I am getting very tired of the over-intellectualising of what is happening, that is appearing.May I try and simplify things a bit? ALL of the participants are corrupt,except for Chamlong.I cannot understand why he supports P.A.D., given his past record.The P.A.D. are a seriously misguided group of losers. They have lost their power to “own” Thailand. They have lost their power to control the poor and keep them poor, for their own economic benefit.They needed the “poor” to stay poor.To say that the poor are unintelligent is a disgusting proposition. They are not. However ,they are uneducated, and why?Because, people like in the P.A.D.,who are(100%) ALL Chinese Thais, refused to allow them to be educated.Most of the people in my village, have maybe 2 years of education in primary school, before dropping-out because their parents could not afford the school fees, before poverty sent them off to work, aged about 12,doing menial jobs or the majority being forced into the sex industry. Now because of Thai Rak Thai, there is 12 years of compulsory education. The poor are now being educated, that is anathema to the elitists of the P.A.D., because in the future the elitists WILL be confronted by an educated mass whom they detest and loath. Vote buying? Yes, every political party is involved.None are innocent. Racism?, yes the Chinese Thais loath and detest anything with”dark coloured skin”Look at which prostitutes, the Chinese Thais use, they are ALL “light skin colour” trafficked in the main from the North of Thailand.To hell with P.A.D. and the unemployment they have inflicted on the poor. What is the primary responsibility of Government? It is to improve the well being of ALL citizens, not the elite. The economic benefits that flowed to the poor, are substantial, due to Thai Rak Thai.When I first visited my village, 18 years ago, there were no cars, no pick-ups, no rot tai,(walking tractors)no motor-bikes, buffalo, yes, hundreds of them.9 years ago, when I moved here to live, nothing much had changed,2 cars now,1 of which was mine, 1 pick-up, 1 television, 1 “song taow”.Today , post Thai Rak Thai, virtually every house has at least 1 motorbike, some have 2 or 3. maybe, at least 60% have a pick-up, every house has a t.v..Many now have fridges, gas stoves, all have come post Thai Rak Thai,the economic benefits have been enormous,that is why the people love Thaksin, crook that he is, but they do understand, that they are ALL crooks, including members of the P.A.D.End of story!!!
If the Supreme Court truly reached its decision quite unmoved by the protests of the PAD then one wonders just what it is that the mayhem wrought by the yellows actually achieved -quite simply nothing or, at least, certainly not the avowed aim of bringing down the government, Credit for which goes to the military appointed judges.
On the other hand, if the courts bowed to PAD pressure (i.e. departed from their avowed obligation to consider the strict legalistic merits of the case) then this is a sorry day for those of us who look forward to an independent and impartial judiciary.
I’m left with a simple question: Why didn’t Chamlong and Co hold off the protests until the the court announced its verdict? All sorts of misery could have been avoided.
By now it has become quite apparent that the the military / elite complex is behind this “silent” coup in Thailand. The juditiary has found the PPP violated the laws and has been disbanded. Everyone and his neighbour in Thailand has known this would be the case and “judgement day” will be in early december. Why then did the PAD go through such a destructive and disruptive pretense to demanding the PM and the Govt resign? It is already a given that the PM and the govt will have to be dissolved.
It is quite simple really, and a simpleton approah to strategy, ignoring the damage it will do to the country as a whole. The military / elite complex knows that their sponsored political party has no hope of actually winning an election. The last coup and military appointed govt showed that in no uncertain terms. Despite all the new rules and cntrol of the election commission, the military sponsored party still lost.
If the mlitary / elite simply wait for the courts to dissolve parliement, an electon will have to be held within a fixed time frame. TRT re-incarnate will simply win again, having the real support from the bulk of Thais. To avoid this lost, the military / elite complex must get to appoint the govt and then have the excuse to not hold an election within a fix time frame. In order to do that, they need destruction and disruption – hence the PAD and the unimaginable (for outside observers) actions that were taken and the lack of lawful enforcements.
Now that the govt is dissolved, the next step is to change even more of the constituton to ensure a more permanent “legal” govt that cannot be pushed out by an election. An eection when it is finally held (my guess is two to three years time) will be so hand-tied that the miltary sponsored party will have to really shoot themselves in the foot to lose. HOwever, even that may be deemed too risky and the appointed govt may change the representation in govt to mainly appointed and have a token representation by election. This will guarantee “legal” permanence.
Matichon reporting airport to remain closed until 15DEC. Is this to satisfy int’l “authorities” that the airport is “secure”? Earlier it was reported that it will take “at least a week” to restore operations after the successful protesters leave.
Amberwaves speaks of being treated worse than an apostate when criticizing the PAD. Apparently he has never sat in a prolonged local Thai government/media press conference to see how officials treat media or the common man. As well, the social matrix in the LOS easily provides ammunition for such vituperative treatment, no matter what particular group you belong to.
With the court’s most recent decision dissolving the three parties, anyone honestly think that a decent Thai government is on the way? I see more protests, and more divisiveness amongst Thais and foreigners, most of whom either don’t really know what’s going on or who for their own reasons don’t care or can’t afford to care.
All of that backlog of charges and detailed investigations done against the Thaksin regime and other pro-TRT ilk – why is it that this material does not seem to be widely published or available? Just like the Handley book and others, it does not fit the polite nature of Thai culture. Instead, it gets buried and so do investigative reporters who try to resurrect it.
The saddest part of this whole mess is the Ameristanization of Thailand.
The Red-Blue, DEM-GOP, Pepsi-Coke, Ford-Chevy metric that the elites in the west have so successfully employed to divide their citizens and keep them fighting about silly nonsense all the while moving stealthily around behind them, unzipping and preparing to “service the account”!
I left Ameristan for good because of this years ago.
Ameristanis won’t be satisfied until the whole world looks sounds and acts like every pathetic small town across Ameristan.
hrk, your suggestion is interesting and may have broad appeal. How, practically, do you think such an intermediate administration might be established? By royal decree, parliamentary vote, coup or otherwise?
To address your last question, it’s a bit difficult to be a critical supporter of the PAD, as one gets treated as an apostate. Critics of the PAD get much more vituperative treatment, on several orders of magnitude, than anything you have faced here.
Some people at the airport have said things like “I know this is not right, but it is something we have to do (for the nation, monarchy etc etc.)”
I’m really not sure what to make of that, an awareness that something is wrong but a willingness to go along with it.
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PPP gone…
PPP gone, but every problems remain…
…especially how would ANY government deal with the fact that Thai military would not follow order they do not like.
Restraint is discredited
amberwaves – The truly frightening aspect of PAD is that they are using standard brainwashing tactics the same as the communists did in the vietnam era. Collect your people and bombard them with your line until they are re-educated. You have to stop and ask yourself why every PAD supporter spouts the exact same line in the exact same order.
While there are problems with Thailand’s democracy the problems do not lie squarely on the government (TRT/PPP), the Democrats are just as much to blame for failing to offer any form or realistic opposition with ideas that are sound, The EC has to be fair they cannot target a political group or an ideology as they have once again ( A democrat exec was caught buying votes but they decided to only prosecute the Government), the courts have to act responsibly (they cannot let the PAD free while dissolving the PPPetc) and the military has to be firmly purged of all the elements that also have blame squarely on their shoulders by showing their view by their non action to the country in time of crisis.
The main problem with the PAD is that the leadership is so disjointed with their own individual ideas, often based on hate, that they do not have a cohesive idea of what they want and every day they want something different.
PPP gone…
Maybe Somchai and the TRT/PPP can take over Chiang Mai International Airport until this ruling is reversed? I hear that’s very effective.
PPP gone…
Max: The statement makes several points about the procedure used by the Constitutional Court (not allowing all witnesses for PPP to speak; allowing PPP only 2 hours to present its case) as well as calling into question the integrity of some of the members of the Court (one member’s wife is alleged to have been active in PAD demonstrations). It ends by noting that these irregularities are likely to lead Thai people to call the integrity of the court into question, and to see the ruling as an alternative means of accomplishing a coup.
The real question is whether Thaksin will direct Puea Thai–the new container for old TRT and PPP MPs–to appoint one of his sisters as its head. If that’s the case, and if they continue to maintain a solid majority in parliament, then we can expect a massive–and more violent–resurgence of PAD activity.
The ruling of the Constitutional Court is merely a brief reprieve designed to save face for a certain someone’s upcoming birthday. Once Puea Thai regroups, you can expect the last week to be replayed, with a vengeance.
PPP gone…
Pracharat and hrk,
Absolute monarchy in the modern world? Do you really want to extend les majesty to every decision of the all-powerful royal government? If you do, an underground opposition to the ruling monarch will inevitably form over time (Khana Ratsadorn could resurrect). Revisiting the history of Rama VII might be useful here.
Also, before taking on absolute power, advice from ex-King Gyanendra of Nepal would be prudent. His grab of absolute power led to the end of monarchy in Nepal. And “regency”? Try reading Nepal’s history on regency and convince yourself that its a good idea for Thailand.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
Bosunj
It is obvious that it will take time to reopen the airport not to ‘satisfy int’l authorites’ but because the whole place has been occupied by a bunch of half wits who have disconnected the cctv cameras and generally made a huge mess of a delicate mechanism. Even the computer systems will take time to reboot and re calibrate – this aiport will not be able to function as it was for weeks or even months so say bye bye to a huge percentage of the tourists who would have come for the holiday season, and also to all the business people who will take their custom to more reliable nations like India and Bangladesh. Its a sad situation for Thailand. The PAD have done far more damage to Thailand than Thaksin ever did – I am no fan of Thaksin but under his rule Thai thrived economically and now it is headed for a deep black hole which it could take years to get out of.
PPP gone…
hrk,
The only check and balance that meets your requirement is, of course, HM The King.
Dec. 5th, ya’ll. Just wait.
New Mandala’s stepping stones to a coup
I am getting very tired of the over-intellectualising of what is happening, that is appearing.May I try and simplify things a bit? ALL of the participants are corrupt,except for Chamlong.I cannot understand why he supports P.A.D., given his past record.The P.A.D. are a seriously misguided group of losers. They have lost their power to “own” Thailand. They have lost their power to control the poor and keep them poor, for their own economic benefit.They needed the “poor” to stay poor.To say that the poor are unintelligent is a disgusting proposition. They are not. However ,they are uneducated, and why?Because, people like in the P.A.D.,who are(100%) ALL Chinese Thais, refused to allow them to be educated.Most of the people in my village, have maybe 2 years of education in primary school, before dropping-out because their parents could not afford the school fees, before poverty sent them off to work, aged about 12,doing menial jobs or the majority being forced into the sex industry. Now because of Thai Rak Thai, there is 12 years of compulsory education. The poor are now being educated, that is anathema to the elitists of the P.A.D., because in the future the elitists WILL be confronted by an educated mass whom they detest and loath. Vote buying? Yes, every political party is involved.None are innocent. Racism?, yes the Chinese Thais loath and detest anything with”dark coloured skin”Look at which prostitutes, the Chinese Thais use, they are ALL “light skin colour” trafficked in the main from the North of Thailand.To hell with P.A.D. and the unemployment they have inflicted on the poor. What is the primary responsibility of Government? It is to improve the well being of ALL citizens, not the elite. The economic benefits that flowed to the poor, are substantial, due to Thai Rak Thai.When I first visited my village, 18 years ago, there were no cars, no pick-ups, no rot tai,(walking tractors)no motor-bikes, buffalo, yes, hundreds of them.9 years ago, when I moved here to live, nothing much had changed,2 cars now,1 of which was mine, 1 pick-up, 1 television, 1 “song taow”.Today , post Thai Rak Thai, virtually every house has at least 1 motorbike, some have 2 or 3. maybe, at least 60% have a pick-up, every house has a t.v..Many now have fridges, gas stoves, all have come post Thai Rak Thai,the economic benefits have been enormous,that is why the people love Thaksin, crook that he is, but they do understand, that they are ALL crooks, including members of the P.A.D.End of story!!!
PPP gone…
If the Supreme Court truly reached its decision quite unmoved by the protests of the PAD then one wonders just what it is that the mayhem wrought by the yellows actually achieved -quite simply nothing or, at least, certainly not the avowed aim of bringing down the government, Credit for which goes to the military appointed judges.
On the other hand, if the courts bowed to PAD pressure (i.e. departed from their avowed obligation to consider the strict legalistic merits of the case) then this is a sorry day for those of us who look forward to an independent and impartial judiciary.
I’m left with a simple question: Why didn’t Chamlong and Co hold off the protests until the the court announced its verdict? All sorts of misery could have been avoided.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
Here’s my take on the whole sorry episode –
Strategy to hold power “legally” ad infinitum
By now it has become quite apparent that the the military / elite complex is behind this “silent” coup in Thailand. The juditiary has found the PPP violated the laws and has been disbanded. Everyone and his neighbour in Thailand has known this would be the case and “judgement day” will be in early december. Why then did the PAD go through such a destructive and disruptive pretense to demanding the PM and the Govt resign? It is already a given that the PM and the govt will have to be dissolved.
It is quite simple really, and a simpleton approah to strategy, ignoring the damage it will do to the country as a whole. The military / elite complex knows that their sponsored political party has no hope of actually winning an election. The last coup and military appointed govt showed that in no uncertain terms. Despite all the new rules and cntrol of the election commission, the military sponsored party still lost.
If the mlitary / elite simply wait for the courts to dissolve parliement, an electon will have to be held within a fixed time frame. TRT re-incarnate will simply win again, having the real support from the bulk of Thais. To avoid this lost, the military / elite complex must get to appoint the govt and then have the excuse to not hold an election within a fix time frame. In order to do that, they need destruction and disruption – hence the PAD and the unimaginable (for outside observers) actions that were taken and the lack of lawful enforcements.
Now that the govt is dissolved, the next step is to change even more of the constituton to ensure a more permanent “legal” govt that cannot be pushed out by an election. An eection when it is finally held (my guess is two to three years time) will be so hand-tied that the miltary sponsored party will have to really shoot themselves in the foot to lose. HOwever, even that may be deemed too risky and the appointed govt may change the representation in govt to mainly appointed and have a token representation by election. This will guarantee “legal” permanence.
PPP gone…
hrk: hee hee hee
End of the royal taboo?
Tony: her AM report today was truly uninformed. One hopes that someone at the ABC notices.
The crowd and the crown by Philip Bowring
Just watching HM King reviewing the troops…
the cars accompanying the King on official occasions, the funeral and now, are red?
I expect the colour has significance but what is it?
Did the government buy the cars for the royals?
What is HR Princes colour?
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
Matichon reporting airport to remain closed until 15DEC. Is this to satisfy int’l “authorities” that the airport is “secure”? Earlier it was reported that it will take “at least a week” to restore operations after the successful protesters leave.
Restraint is discredited
Amberwaves speaks of being treated worse than an apostate when criticizing the PAD. Apparently he has never sat in a prolonged local Thai government/media press conference to see how officials treat media or the common man. As well, the social matrix in the LOS easily provides ammunition for such vituperative treatment, no matter what particular group you belong to.
With the court’s most recent decision dissolving the three parties, anyone honestly think that a decent Thai government is on the way? I see more protests, and more divisiveness amongst Thais and foreigners, most of whom either don’t really know what’s going on or who for their own reasons don’t care or can’t afford to care.
All of that backlog of charges and detailed investigations done against the Thaksin regime and other pro-TRT ilk – why is it that this material does not seem to be widely published or available? Just like the Handley book and others, it does not fit the polite nature of Thai culture. Instead, it gets buried and so do investigative reporters who try to resurrect it.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
Bangkok Pundit and AFP are reporting PAD has announced that flights can resume from both airports immediately.
Conflict in Bangkok: Open thread
The saddest part of this whole mess is the Ameristanization of Thailand.
The Red-Blue, DEM-GOP, Pepsi-Coke, Ford-Chevy metric that the elites in the west have so successfully employed to divide their citizens and keep them fighting about silly nonsense all the while moving stealthily around behind them, unzipping and preparing to “service the account”!
I left Ameristan for good because of this years ago.
Ameristanis won’t be satisfied until the whole world looks sounds and acts like every pathetic small town across Ameristan.
PPP gone…
hrk, your suggestion is interesting and may have broad appeal. How, practically, do you think such an intermediate administration might be established? By royal decree, parliamentary vote, coup or otherwise?
Restraint is discredited
Anthony –
To address your last question, it’s a bit difficult to be a critical supporter of the PAD, as one gets treated as an apostate. Critics of the PAD get much more vituperative treatment, on several orders of magnitude, than anything you have faced here.
Some people at the airport have said things like “I know this is not right, but it is something we have to do (for the nation, monarchy etc etc.)”
I’m really not sure what to make of that, an awareness that something is wrong but a willingness to go along with it.
PPP gone…
Complete farce. Perhaps tomorrow The Nation will be running pitchfork and hay-bail adverts with bulk discount coupons.