Granted ‘external elements’ a term the military is very fond of do play an important part, in recent decades from our own regional players not least China. And that is subject to their whims and circumstances(ma-lo ta-myo lo ta-myo) as we have witnessed in relation to both East and West.
Is it not down to us to be mindful of, think through and act upon both carpe diem and caveat emptor?
Dear Kinch; Using some alleged IQ measure to distinguish groups of people to say one is superior and the other inferior probably constitutes racist hate speech, a covert way of calling people “stupid”. It creates animosity, inter-group hatred and does not even answer any meaningful question.
Alleged declining IQ among schoolchildren was a news story in Thailand recently and some people blamed it on malnutrition, but it was not used to isolate and characterize some group of people. In the end, it led nowhere and could be an artifact of test-taking. A dead end.
“The Hand of God is one thing, man-made disasters are quite another. The entire post-1962 history constitutes man’s acts of commission and omission, not foreign but our own kind.”
Ah Ko Gyi Moe Aung
I hope you are not giving the west a pass.
1)An occupation by a racists that still is proud of the treacherous past. The 2nd longest period in dynastic time that truncated a nation destiny, destined to be Thailand like, ending with unbridgeable ethic conflicts, with dubious distinction of world longest conflict.
2) Coddling to an obvious dictator that impoverish the citizenry.
3) So called punishment meted out useless carelessly without any consideration.
The fact is that only us “NLD, the citizenry and the present military government” that might just be 1/2 responsible are left to “hold the Bag” while patriot like you remain silent of the obvious sin by the other parties is galling.
Until enough patriots speak out of the responsibilities of USA, EU the other half the history of useless careless eras will repeat itself.
As of now the quagmire of deals made with the Chinese WA etc due to hier period wil take generations to solve.
ASEAN’s security role has always been more talk than action. When regional problems emerge it has rarely been assertive. In fact its tendency has been to do nothing and stall. It’s members often choose to go beyond ASEAN and look for outside support such as in the ICJ in spite of (or because of) ASEAN’s original rationale to manage by consensus. Last summer’s Rohingya crisis is the latest example of its inability to express regional interests over fears of upsetting one of its own members. ASEAN’s rich states have impoverished Gambia to thank for accepting SE Asia’s most desperate refugees that they refused to accommodate–Gambia!.
Also, it is important to note that the ASEAN “high point” or “golden period” in the 1980s mentioned above was only possible because neither Cambodia or Vietnam were in ASEAN at the time. Thus the “ASEAN Way” of noninterference could not get in the way in in 1980s Cambodia. ASEAN’s expansion of membership has merely resulted in expanding the protection non-interference grants all of its members. I’m not sure ASEAN has ever had a high point or golden period, at least in the realm of regional security.
The Hand of God is one thing, man-made disasters are quite another. The entire post-1962 history constitutes man’s acts of commission and omission, not foreign but our own kind.
Its historical crimes past and recent even current notwithstanding, dumping the blame at the West’s door almost exclusively and consistently as you do is practically letting the real culprits off the hook and twisting the sad truth of cause and effect.
Globalisation by force of arms is one thing, the same process by financial and economic might is not generally seen as practically colonialism/imperialism. It’s down to us in the end to try and manage a balancing act to our own diverse nation’s advantage.
The buck stops with the protagonists, military or civilian.
The gap b/t the 2/3 rural basic needs and the urban is getting wider. This began with the Monarchy.
Ah Ko Gyi Moe Aung
Myanmar would have been similar to Thailand in destiny/stature if not the the intervening eras which the useless careless sanction by the west is but one and shortest albeit equally devastating to the rural.
If this protagonist assert to all New Mandala supporters that “the number of IDP of all wars since independent is less than the one produced by Hargis, then may be everyone hopefully at least some here will realized the enormity of suffering that the rural ares as examples is still facing.
As NLD will soon forge ahead, DASK must realize the bigger plight of the rural 2/3.
Minor changing of the priority and regulation pivoting towards the rural such as mentioned:
1) Transportation
2) No middle man must take undue advantage of these salt of the earth.
3) Through NLD offices to educate and provide possibility (such as mechanization) as well as heath care
These can be in full partnership with the Tamadaw.
The possibilities of more freedom for alll will be uniquely Burmese.
Defining an entire population by reference to IQ as intellectually incapable of comprehending these issues both neglects to explore the genuine factors at play in the nation’s political environment and frankly arouses colonial sentiments of the “dumb savage”. Furthermore, studies have debunked that the IQ test is an accurate measurement of one’s intellect. See https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121219133334.htm and http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/iq-myth-debunked-by-canadian-researchers-1.1264832 (in fact, one might say that all an IQ test demonstrates is that you are good at responding to an IQ test)
On the other hand, your claim that Filipino culture is “very forgiving” is an interesting point and one I’d like to see explored further, since I too find the surprising amount of warmth displayed to the Marcoses baffling
Interesting piece but perhaps underestimates the power and influence of a resurgent economically and militarily rising Vietnam to act on its own volition against China’s S China Sea claims, with or without ASEAN support. And not simply as an instrument of US Govt Policy.
New Mandala readers interested in the topic of Thailand’s tourism will also find the following book gripping reading : Thailand – Deadly Destination, by John Stapleton, published by A Sense of Place Publishing, 2015.
another useful term for this process is “centering the margin.”
A book by this title came out in 2006. The authors do not explicitly address 21st century politics in Thailand, the Holy Man uprisings, the Boworadet Revolt, etc. but the essays are directly applicable to the Red Shirt movement and the events of 2010.
Not only have the international media homed in on the Lady’s presidential nominee being her ‘driver’, CNN even got the wrong Htin Kyaw’s photo in its rush to report.
I find this kind of comment really helpful.
I have no dog in the fight re: Thaksin or not Thaksin because I was elsewhere committed during that period.
If the people of Isan thought they benefitted, they benefitted. What’s of interest is in how the junta/fascists/monarchists, whatever, create rationales for dismissing their viewpoints and experience. That is generally true of disenfranchised groups, including African Americans and single mothers in the U.S.: some politician is always stating what they need. They are voiceless in the political narrative.
When they speak up, women especially, they are hammered. Some of the reaction to my piece was not actual response but ugly personal attack with the undertones of Who do you think you are? Most scholars know, but I see that others don’t, so I clarified, which seemed to anger some people.
There seems to be a basic roadblock with the Monarchy is Nothing; fight Fascism (with no indications how, or who) v. What’s really up with the monarchy, which happens to be a specialty of mine. Not a crime. v, or pro-Thaksin advocates.
To me the most encouraging thing is having a new generation of scholars coming up the line, and the powers of the Internet to provide actual, concrete information.
I’m still not hearing the voices of Isan people except through some people who communicate with me privately.
The other topic of interest to me is where Buddhist monks and the Sangha stands in this new political order. Farang tend to see the phenomenon as irrelevant, but Isan people don’t, or at least they didn’t.
The conflict in the Deep South is hardly far from the tourist track if you take into account cross-border tourism from Malaysia. Up until 2011 Malaysians were the largest group of international tourists and they are still in second place after the Chinese. A large proportion of these tourists travel to destinations like Hat Yai, which is very close to the zone of conflict and which has indeed been directly affected by attacks. Reports in 2014 suggested that tourism in the far South could lose up to 1.8 Billion Baht because of perceived risk of attacks”. The “southern fires” are therefore not insignificant when it comes to potentially affects on tourism numbers.
It seems to me that overland visitors are often overlooked in discussions of tourism in Thailand even though they make up a significant proportion of overall tourist numbers. I wonder why this is?
Estimated Mean IQ for Thailand: 91. Philippines: 86. Do we really expect the general populace of these nations to be interested in more intellectual topics? It’s not even very likely in Western countries clustered around mean IQ 100. Obviously there are smart fractions in both nations, but I’m sure I don’t need to give you a lesson on the Gaussian distribution to explain the implications of these low means for the number of people out at IQ 120+ who are going to be be capable of and interested in abstract reasoning about anything.
As for handling confronting past atrocities: In Thailand it’s likely to have you staring front and centre in a present atrocity. In the Philippines, the culture is just very forgiving. It’s certainly different, but there it is. Why Imelda Marcos didn’t get acquainted with a lamp post in the same manner as Clara Petacci, I’ll never really understand. But there it is.
Zoom out to Filipino society at large and most people are simply not informed about what happened during the Marcos Era or even how Filipino society works.
The one bookstore in the country “The National Bookstore” has none of the books that document what Marcos did, that would teach people what happened and most university libraries are not well-stocked or open to the public.
If people read online at academia.com:
“Review article: on Alfred W. MCoy (ed.), An Anarchy of Families: State and Society in the Philippines” by Reynaldo Ileto,
They would get a good idea of how their society works, but the book reviewed “Anarchy of Families,” despite its importance, is nowhere to be found in the Philippines.
Imelda’s son Bong Bong (vice-presidential candidate) has declared publicly history is irrelevant, to what’s happening now and to the future.
Khun Vichai, a memorial to “Thaksin’s extra-judicial rampage” would be a good idea.
A memorial would remind people those killings were a dark moment in Thailand’s history.
A memorial would remind people that the killings were bad no matter whether you are a red-shirt or non-red-shirt
A memorial should remind people that there are no excuses for mass extrajudicial killings.
I work for the biggest English language newspaper in Thailand and every time I do an important story that people should read but don’t (meaning low web traffic & page views), rather than web-traffic maximizing entertainment fluff, I am criticized for it and get to listen to stupid excuses like that is what the Farang want to read about, the Thai people don’t want to read about it or that’s social media (but if it is web traffic maximizing entertainment fluff social media is ok). Reality flash: social media is where most of the real macrocosm in a microcosm stories that teach you about hos a society works are happening, like “Three stolen coconuts land man in jail” which I got taken to task for or “Soldiers stomp thugs as crowd cheers” which is a must read to find out the way people really feel about “use of excessive force” and “police brutality.” As Duterte’s popularity shows, mass killing easily finds an excuse also.
Dear James, thanks for your article with which I could not agree more. But what I find deplorable is that even on a platform like New Mandala which is dedicated to academic debate, a reminder like this obviously seems to be necessary. Let us hope everybody will heed your admonition. Best
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Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
Granted ‘external elements’ a term the military is very fond of do play an important part, in recent decades from our own regional players not least China. And that is subject to their whims and circumstances(ma-lo ta-myo lo ta-myo) as we have witnessed in relation to both East and West.
Is it not down to us to be mindful of, think through and act upon both carpe diem and caveat emptor?
A massive mistake for a Marcos at mass
Dear Kinch; Using some alleged IQ measure to distinguish groups of people to say one is superior and the other inferior probably constitutes racist hate speech, a covert way of calling people “stupid”. It creates animosity, inter-group hatred and does not even answer any meaningful question.
Alleged declining IQ among schoolchildren was a news story in Thailand recently and some people blamed it on malnutrition, but it was not used to isolate and characterize some group of people. In the end, it led nowhere and could be an artifact of test-taking. A dead end.
Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
“The Hand of God is one thing, man-made disasters are quite another. The entire post-1962 history constitutes man’s acts of commission and omission, not foreign but our own kind.”
Ah Ko Gyi Moe Aung
I hope you are not giving the west a pass.
1)An occupation by a racists that still is proud of the treacherous past. The 2nd longest period in dynastic time that truncated a nation destiny, destined to be Thailand like, ending with unbridgeable ethic conflicts, with dubious distinction of world longest conflict.
2) Coddling to an obvious dictator that impoverish the citizenry.
3) So called punishment meted out useless carelessly without any consideration.
The fact is that only us “NLD, the citizenry and the present military government” that might just be 1/2 responsible are left to “hold the Bag” while patriot like you remain silent of the obvious sin by the other parties is galling.
Until enough patriots speak out of the responsibilities of USA, EU the other half the history of useless careless eras will repeat itself.
As of now the quagmire of deals made with the Chinese WA etc due to hier period wil take generations to solve.
ASEAN deconstructs
ASEAN’s security role has always been more talk than action. When regional problems emerge it has rarely been assertive. In fact its tendency has been to do nothing and stall. It’s members often choose to go beyond ASEAN and look for outside support such as in the ICJ in spite of (or because of) ASEAN’s original rationale to manage by consensus. Last summer’s Rohingya crisis is the latest example of its inability to express regional interests over fears of upsetting one of its own members. ASEAN’s rich states have impoverished Gambia to thank for accepting SE Asia’s most desperate refugees that they refused to accommodate–Gambia!.
Also, it is important to note that the ASEAN “high point” or “golden period” in the 1980s mentioned above was only possible because neither Cambodia or Vietnam were in ASEAN at the time. Thus the “ASEAN Way” of noninterference could not get in the way in in 1980s Cambodia. ASEAN’s expansion of membership has merely resulted in expanding the protection non-interference grants all of its members. I’m not sure ASEAN has ever had a high point or golden period, at least in the realm of regional security.
Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
F’m!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8GMpRXq2fE
Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
The Hand of God is one thing, man-made disasters are quite another. The entire post-1962 history constitutes man’s acts of commission and omission, not foreign but our own kind.
Its historical crimes past and recent even current notwithstanding, dumping the blame at the West’s door almost exclusively and consistently as you do is practically letting the real culprits off the hook and twisting the sad truth of cause and effect.
Globalisation by force of arms is one thing, the same process by financial and economic might is not generally seen as practically colonialism/imperialism. It’s down to us in the end to try and manage a balancing act to our own diverse nation’s advantage.
The buck stops with the protagonists, military or civilian.
Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
The gap b/t the 2/3 rural basic needs and the urban is getting wider. This began with the Monarchy.
Ah Ko Gyi Moe Aung
Myanmar would have been similar to Thailand in destiny/stature if not the the intervening eras which the useless careless sanction by the west is but one and shortest albeit equally devastating to the rural.
If this protagonist assert to all New Mandala supporters that “the number of IDP of all wars since independent is less than the one produced by Hargis, then may be everyone hopefully at least some here will realized the enormity of suffering that the rural ares as examples is still facing.
As NLD will soon forge ahead, DASK must realize the bigger plight of the rural 2/3.
Minor changing of the priority and regulation pivoting towards the rural such as mentioned:
1) Transportation
2) No middle man must take undue advantage of these salt of the earth.
3) Through NLD offices to educate and provide possibility (such as mechanization) as well as heath care
These can be in full partnership with the Tamadaw.
The possibilities of more freedom for alll will be uniquely Burmese.
Nightclubs and nepotism in Singapore
Malaysian corruption not limited to Malaysia. How novel.
A massive mistake for a Marcos at mass
Dear Kinch,
Defining an entire population by reference to IQ as intellectually incapable of comprehending these issues both neglects to explore the genuine factors at play in the nation’s political environment and frankly arouses colonial sentiments of the “dumb savage”. Furthermore, studies have debunked that the IQ test is an accurate measurement of one’s intellect. See https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121219133334.htm and http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/iq-myth-debunked-by-canadian-researchers-1.1264832 (in fact, one might say that all an IQ test demonstrates is that you are good at responding to an IQ test)
On the other hand, your claim that Filipino culture is “very forgiving” is an interesting point and one I’d like to see explored further, since I too find the surprising amount of warmth displayed to the Marcoses baffling
Warm regards
Mish Khan
ASEAN deconstructs
Interesting piece but perhaps underestimates the power and influence of a resurgent economically and militarily rising Vietnam to act on its own volition against China’s S China Sea claims, with or without ASEAN support. And not simply as an instrument of US Govt Policy.
Challenging times for Thai tourism
New Mandala readers interested in the topic of Thailand’s tourism will also find the following book gripping reading : Thailand – Deadly Destination, by John Stapleton, published by A Sense of Place Publishing, 2015.
Thailand’s new politics and a double wrecking ball
another useful term for this process is “centering the margin.”
A book by this title came out in 2006. The authors do not explicitly address 21st century politics in Thailand, the Holy Man uprisings, the Boworadet Revolt, etc. but the essays are directly applicable to the Red Shirt movement and the events of 2010.
Predicting Myanmar’s next president
Not only have the international media homed in on the Lady’s presidential nominee being her ‘driver’, CNN even got the wrong Htin Kyaw’s photo in its rush to report.
He didn’t go to Oxford. He was unfortunately bound to be dubbed the puppet president, someone who would ‘do as he’s told’.
Thailand’s new politics and a double wrecking ball
thanks, Cliff.
I find this kind of comment really helpful.
I have no dog in the fight re: Thaksin or not Thaksin because I was elsewhere committed during that period.
If the people of Isan thought they benefitted, they benefitted. What’s of interest is in how the junta/fascists/monarchists, whatever, create rationales for dismissing their viewpoints and experience. That is generally true of disenfranchised groups, including African Americans and single mothers in the U.S.: some politician is always stating what they need. They are voiceless in the political narrative.
When they speak up, women especially, they are hammered. Some of the reaction to my piece was not actual response but ugly personal attack with the undertones of Who do you think you are? Most scholars know, but I see that others don’t, so I clarified, which seemed to anger some people.
There seems to be a basic roadblock with the Monarchy is Nothing; fight Fascism (with no indications how, or who) v. What’s really up with the monarchy, which happens to be a specialty of mine. Not a crime. v, or pro-Thaksin advocates.
To me the most encouraging thing is having a new generation of scholars coming up the line, and the powers of the Internet to provide actual, concrete information.
I’m still not hearing the voices of Isan people except through some people who communicate with me privately.
The other topic of interest to me is where Buddhist monks and the Sangha stands in this new political order. Farang tend to see the phenomenon as irrelevant, but Isan people don’t, or at least they didn’t.
More work to be done. Thanks.
Thailand’s new politics and a double wrecking ball
Ralph,
Thanks for the link.
Christine
Challenging times for Thai tourism
The conflict in the Deep South is hardly far from the tourist track if you take into account cross-border tourism from Malaysia. Up until 2011 Malaysians were the largest group of international tourists and they are still in second place after the Chinese. A large proportion of these tourists travel to destinations like Hat Yai, which is very close to the zone of conflict and which has indeed been directly affected by attacks. Reports in 2014 suggested that tourism in the far South could lose up to 1.8 Billion Baht because of perceived risk of attacks”. The “southern fires” are therefore not insignificant when it comes to potentially affects on tourism numbers.
It seems to me that overland visitors are often overlooked in discussions of tourism in Thailand even though they make up a significant proportion of overall tourist numbers. I wonder why this is?
A massive mistake for a Marcos at mass
Estimated Mean IQ for Thailand: 91. Philippines: 86. Do we really expect the general populace of these nations to be interested in more intellectual topics? It’s not even very likely in Western countries clustered around mean IQ 100. Obviously there are smart fractions in both nations, but I’m sure I don’t need to give you a lesson on the Gaussian distribution to explain the implications of these low means for the number of people out at IQ 120+ who are going to be be capable of and interested in abstract reasoning about anything.
As for handling confronting past atrocities: In Thailand it’s likely to have you staring front and centre in a present atrocity. In the Philippines, the culture is just very forgiving. It’s certainly different, but there it is. Why Imelda Marcos didn’t get acquainted with a lamp post in the same manner as Clara Petacci, I’ll never really understand. But there it is.
Misplaced affection for Myanmar’s old days
All deemocracies surely are made with hamburger. Lots of pickles.
A massive mistake for a Marcos at mass
Zoom out to Filipino society at large and most people are simply not informed about what happened during the Marcos Era or even how Filipino society works.
The one bookstore in the country “The National Bookstore” has none of the books that document what Marcos did, that would teach people what happened and most university libraries are not well-stocked or open to the public.
If people read online at academia.com:
“Review article: on Alfred W. MCoy (ed.), An Anarchy of Families: State and Society in the Philippines” by Reynaldo Ileto,
They would get a good idea of how their society works, but the book reviewed “Anarchy of Families,” despite its importance, is nowhere to be found in the Philippines.
Imelda’s son Bong Bong (vice-presidential candidate) has declared publicly history is irrelevant, to what’s happening now and to the future.
Khun Vichai, a memorial to “Thaksin’s extra-judicial rampage” would be a good idea.
A memorial would remind people those killings were a dark moment in Thailand’s history.
A memorial would remind people that the killings were bad no matter whether you are a red-shirt or non-red-shirt
A memorial should remind people that there are no excuses for mass extrajudicial killings.
I work for the biggest English language newspaper in Thailand and every time I do an important story that people should read but don’t (meaning low web traffic & page views), rather than web-traffic maximizing entertainment fluff, I am criticized for it and get to listen to stupid excuses like that is what the Farang want to read about, the Thai people don’t want to read about it or that’s social media (but if it is web traffic maximizing entertainment fluff social media is ok). Reality flash: social media is where most of the real macrocosm in a microcosm stories that teach you about hos a society works are happening, like “Three stolen coconuts land man in jail” which I got taken to task for or “Soldiers stomp thugs as crowd cheers” which is a must read to find out the way people really feel about “use of excessive force” and “police brutality.” As Duterte’s popularity shows, mass killing easily finds an excuse also.
A comment on comments and bone-crunching tackles
Dear James, thanks for your article with which I could not agree more. But what I find deplorable is that even on a platform like New Mandala which is dedicated to academic debate, a reminder like this obviously seems to be necessary. Let us hope everybody will heed your admonition. Best