Amberwaves Thanks for your reply – and I do agree the Courts are a good alternative. I suspect PAD is sensing the Government’s doing every mischief in every second it can delay the court cases, and thus the need to Stop it in its Tracks by taking action. (like a ‘retreating’ German Panzer stopped by a P51 Mustang in Saving Private Ryan)
Karmablues, Sumeth Thanks for the information! You guys are definitely on the situation. Karmablues, BTW, I’m a guy 😉
(From Sumeth – “I have to disagree with you, however much I hope I am wrong . . . Now perhaps you will begin to understand why some people want a change in this electoral system, in which the popular vote can be bought for a couple of dollars a head.”)
Change of course is all desirable Sumeth . . . but change must be achieved peacefully and within the accepted decorum of a law-abiding society. Whatever has become of Chamlong Srimuang’s creed of non-violence? If I get the impression that PAD is intent on achieving their version of change (not adequately articulated btw) at all costs, even if much of Bangkok burns in their quest, I am not alone.
I believe that good courageous people can still effect change by working, resisting and protesting within Thailand’s current political system. In a country where a wide income gap exists, and where educational and occupational opportunities are not equitably shared, Thailand’s democracy, warts-and-all still, continues to develop and be accepted by these very poor people who suffer the most iniquities and view their hope for the future by the power of one-man-one-vote.
Removing that power from these people because some corrupt ‘elected leader’ in the past had abused the system (other alternatives you could think could just be abused and worse Sumeth!) is neither moral, constructive and progressive.
Samak Sundaravej I personally believe had corrupted the ideals of Thailand’s democracy by his proxy ways and by his declared agenda to pardon Thaksin Shinawatra via constitutional amendment. But having said that, I will not be mislead by charlatans like Chamlong Srimuang and Sondhi Limthongkul and PAD who will insist that anyone who do not subscribe to their call for total rejection of the current Thai system is neither democractic, moral or good.
Nick:your “Culture” Shock; Thanks very much for your details of the accounts; I honestly thought that in being a photo-journalist (professional or hobby), you would have understood the insanity and violence that is associated in a struggle between 2 factions where “foot soldier/ aye-aye Sir” type persons and/or “uncertainty on heavy handedness of the other side” are involved;
In Thailand we’ve seen it in October 16, Black May where you would not imagine, basing on your own principles, that soldiers would fire onto protesters. Whether it be instilled propoganda (“The Protesters are danger to Our King!”) or Fear (“are those people approaching us going to just shout, or shout and baton, or shout and baton and knife, or shout and baton and knife and gun us?”) and the rest become emotional and chaos.
Unfortunately this is not a 1st World protest where two sides are white collar people who definitely come unarmed and at most fist fights happen [And thus I think your disappointment in both PAD and NPK/UDD/DAAD].
Even though the Objective of that night was NPK to clearly beat PAD out of the government house (100% physical intent), and PAD Guards to defend the perimeters and repel the NPK, I do know NPK were defeated and if it weren’t for Chamlong (who led reinforcements to Makkawan Bridge as I was in the Gov House) who stopped counter-attacking since the idea was to defend only. PAD were definitely prepped to know how far NPK was going to go: seeing the Thammasat incident, the Udon Incident, it was natural the preparation was heavy.
I can perhaps reflect your “Culture Shock” back to say, this is the reason why “Thai Style Democracy” should never be judged by “1st World Democracy”- politicians are different (same faces in 20-30 years, no resignation on scandal), voters are different (not politically active, some fully informed, easy-forget “mai pen rai”, many can be bought) which is very different dynamics overall, and thus I think with PAD in the picture, they augment the media to Watchdog the Politicians, at the same time give information to the Voters and thus breaks the vicious cycle of “bad politicians coming in by vote buying, and then raking up for the next election, loop”, but this is a different discussion altogether on how to break this vicious cycle.
Despite all this, I go on to say (as PAD has done), to observe minutes of silence for the event and especially the deceased. And on behalf of the ugliness that has happened, I agree with you both have been violent in that specific instance, and sorry for you that you were disappointed that you expected higher principles from both sides. I hope you be extra careful in your next endeavors to give us graphic images of the events.
And I hope you, like me, can accept that each time there is a bashing between NPK-PAD things will be this ugly – and every Thai in the street is always wary because it has been the norm. And we should condemn these Master Minders
At the mico-level, this looks like: PAD successfully defeated NPK, and get NPK links . However, the Macro-Level PPP game was to use State of Emergency to get back control; This seemed so similar to Noppadol’s case of Khao Phra Viharn Temple, where at a Micro-Level: Noppadon did something unconstitutional, and was “resigned” kicked out – seemingly PAD victory , where at a Macrolevel PPP game was possibly to sealed Thaksin meaty deals with his corrupt counterpart in Cambodia.
What I am alluding to is, these planned violences and chess moves are part of a skillful orchestration from Thaksin-PPP, who in my opinion do not give a hoot for the well-being of the people he hired, which as you had said in this thread some comments ago, we should jointly condemn those who “are pulling the strings” at the suffering of the people (maybe from some posh London penthouse somewhere or a shopping at Harrod’s).
amberwaves, who has more power in Thailand, the military or the PPP government? I think the assertions are more from experience of previous situations where the military has shown itself to be inextricably tied to the monarchy… as the monarchy is the state. Does this mean the monarchy is in an emergency situation? I don’t think so. Emergency? Those people who wield un-democratic power in Thailand are not under threat. Maybe Samak and Anupong are on the same page, but which one turned their page to suit the other?
Osbourne writes “But he has now resigned ‘for personal reasons’ associated with his wife’s health and it is impossible to believe that he would have done so without the approval of the palace.” – OK – so it’s impossible to believe he would have done so without the approval of the palace, but what’s to say he wouldn’t have resigned with approval of the palace under normal circumstances?
I don’t think anything objective can be interpreted by us from situations that are not entirely open to public scrutiny. Of course it would be great if we could have more accurate predictions about the conclusion of the present stand off, but we can’t – and feeding off scraps (or non-scraps), like Tej Bunnag’s resignation, as indications of potential democratic health only prolongs a tedious wait.
Power in Thailand will remain elusive and mysterious while the public is unable to access it. I think a valid indicator of democratic progression, or at the very least – an indication of the Bhumibol’s democratic values would therefore be for him to be more accessible. Until he is more accessible, I think it’s reasonable to assume that a failing democracy is in the interests of Bhumibol because it is a great marketing strategy for his “benevolent” reign – and subsequently, perhaps “Has Bhumibol been feeding off of the present crisis?” is a more fitting question.
Mr. Osborne’s observations are more than welcome, but he makes reference to a piece of “conventional wisdom” that I’ve never really seen explained:
“… the army is showing little inclination to enforce the state of emergency the prime minister has sought to impose…”
Perhaps I am being naive, but what evidence is there that Samak and Anupong are not on the same page, as this implies and others have said explicitly?
A very close parsing of their respective comments?
Or perhaps it is somehow predicated on the idea that a state of emergency automatically means all its provisions are to be enforced immediately and by all available means?
none of this came as surprise to us in Thailand. Samak has been trying to use violence to stop the PAD for weeks but the police and the army would not go along with his plans. So then he always came out to make statements to foreign reporters that he was the one who would not use force… this was simply not true.
Timeline:
Last week ending we heard the news that Thaksin was about to sell his football club, and that he had been speaking to PPP again.
Newin Chidchob flew to London to meet with Thaksin.
Next day the deal to sell Manchester City FC was signed.
On the same evening PPP ministers were overheard organizing a mob of paid recruits from the northeast who would be shipped to Bangkok to attack the PAD at government house.
The mob arrived in Bangkok in rented buses, were fed sufficient alcohol to make them easy to manipulate, armed, and sent to beat up the PAD. The rest is history.
Samak was so happy when he heard that a PAD member had been killed (it was not until alter that we heard it was one ofd the “reds”).
The point is this – it is the Samak-led government which is inciting people to violence and even hiring thugs to begin the process. More are being recruited at this very moment, and are on their way to Bangkok.
Is this democracy? Is this how elected governments normally behave in a civilized society?
I think not.
kuson – you have now experienced the dark and violent aspect of Thai society. All of us here are aware of this but somehow, perhaps due to the need for tourist dollars, we take great pains to deny it and hide it from the watching world.
matty – I have to disagree with you, however much I hope I am wrong, I believe that Samak will not back down, that the army will not be able to maintain its non-involvement much longer, that a bloodbath is coming, and that after all is over, nothing will change, and some new reincarnation of PPP backed by Thaksin Shinawatra will arise like a phoenix from the ashes.
Pigs just cannot take their snouts out of the trough – in the same way that leopards cannot change their spots.
Now perhaps you will begin to understand why some people want a change in this electoral system, in which the popular vote can be bought for a couple of dollars a head.
I am currently completing an Open University course and have chosen Burma/Myanmar as my subject. This is a very emotive and complicated situation. I am only scratching the surface.
I have just posted a blog about what I think the Referndum questions should be if the government really wants a solution to the current crisis, instead of just a rubber stamp to continue the manipulation agenda: http://www.nganadeeleg.blogspot.com/
Perhaps the following additional question could be thrown in for good measure:
Should the King appoint an interim government? Y or N
and what about this one, to put an end to all the snide nonsense:
Should Thailand be:
(A): A constitutional monarchy?
or
(B): A republic ?
“He concludes that Tej’s ‘departure has all the elements of a signal that the king wants a rapid end to the uncertainty that grips Thailand.'” >> We did not need this “signal” to guess what was on the king’s (and on many other peoples’) mind, really.
On the day I placed my previous comment, a PAD leader said that the resignation of Samak would merely be a condition to negotiate the “new politics.” In the Bangkok Post of September 4, there was a long interview with Sondhi, which included statements on “political reform” as envisaged by the PAD. What follows are the relevant parts.
“And four, a new political order must be set.
We don’t mind what the proportion will be between elected and appointed representatives (in parliament) as long as the people are allowed a direct role in running the country. Even if it’s 20% direct participation by the people, it is a victory for us (the PAD).
The proportion is a secondary matter, something tentative. Direct participation will lessen the extra-parliamentary pressure on those running the country. If people are kept out of the equation of power, the pressure bearing down on the administration will be fierce.
The MPs work for the vested interests of political parties and for personal benefits. In other countries, there are lobbyists who speak for people’s groups to push their MPs and senators to pass laws, but we have no such system to speak of here.
Thai politics do not represent the diverse needs of the various segments of society. The MPs are no help to their constituents because they answer to the policies handed down by financiers who helped vote them in. The civic sector is also an interest group.
We’ve never had MPs who are truly representative of the labourers or farmers who make up the majority population. There has been no channel through which these groups could win seats in parliament.
Who in their right mind would spend some 30 million baht buying votes if they weren’t intent on recouping that investment once elected?
…
A: Mr Abhisit would still be a far better choice than the PPP if the House remained intact and the coalition partners switched their support to Mr Abhisit. However, Mr Abhisit must abide by our demands and he must be committed to political reform.
…
A 50:50 proposal has come forth. If 480 MPs is just too many, perhaps we could have two MPs for each province or 152 MPs overall. Another 152 MPs could be appointed. To achieve this, we would have to alter the charter.
..
A: Everyone loves our King and despises Mr Samak. No one in the upper strata of society accepts Mr Samak because he is abrasive and rude. Intelligent and well-to-do people, people in the ruling class, doctors, nurses and businessmen and leaders, do not accept Mr Samak. Everyone here at the rally speaks the same language.”
I don’t think that Sondhi read Chang Noi’s article, and I think he would not care at all. As a letter to the editor (Nation, Sept. 4) bluntly stated, the election was bought by the politicians and thus illegitimate. Therefore, “the people” can topple the government. From this perspective, which includes the PAD, things are really that simple. Facts do not count much. On the other hand, provincial political structures really are not normally accessible to ordinary people, but very exclusionary. Will we see another round of “political reform,” this time not led by Prawase, Anand, or Borwornsak, but by Sondhi and Chamlong? They demand to amend the constitution in a way that abolishes the basic structure of electoral representation as we know it.
The very important implication of the original Walker & Farrelly post, is that just by saying nothing, the King is revealing his political alignment. It is the same as that of the police and Gen. Anupong, who have done nothing when they could have set up a cordon around Government House cutting off food and water, only letting people out. Unless the cordon was attacked by the mob, the place could have been cleared peacefully in a couple of days. They are all aligned against the government.
Jim, Anti-PAD groups against dictatorship do not carry firearms.
We don’t have footage of who held the gun.
We do however have your boys wielding a very large knife and slingshot that night. A photo is part of the yahoo gallery—google with “pro-government knife bangkok protest yahoo” to see the image.
PAD does have sticks, goggles, helmets, shields and tires.
Pro-gov rioters have their headquarters currently at Samut Prakan’s city square where alcohol is distributed and truckloads of men are moved into BKK to confront PAD, again led by PPP LEADERS!
Your Pro-gov rioters have also been known to expose their privates for the camera, throw stones and there is extensive footage of them attacking PAD (before their stage was even set up) in Udon Thani.
“To Samak: When reporters asked you about the dead man, you shot back belligerently: ‘Whose side was he on?’ Your eyes tell all. The heartlessness. The cruelty. When you started dividing even among the dead, we knew we could not let you carry on.” – from BangkokPost Sep5
Most of you must have surely read this commentary at Bangkok Post, worth deserving a re-read at NM.
Statemanship is sorely lacking in Thailand’s PM. And lacking that quality almost guarantees that Samak won’t be PM and proxy for Thaksin for much longer.
What’s the matter with you people anyway? The girl is simply demonstrating the concept of sufficiency economy: as little of everything, including clothing, as possible. If you are of a clean mind, you can see that the girl is simply stunning.
Thank you so much, Australia, for your friendship and concern. Unfortunately, Thais are unlike Australians in that they are often irrational about what should be rational.
“we hope that the Thai political system …will resolve itself politically through the parliamentary and democratic institutions…”
…and that whoever is in power does not attempt to gut the constitution and stack government ministries with their cronies who should be serving 90-year jail sentences for sucking the life blood of the state [pocketing government money]. Amen.
“This at a time when, according to a number of reports, an Australian university lecturer named Harry Nicolaides, who has worked in Chiang Rai province and in the south, has been arrested for lèse majesté.”
Harry finally got what he wanted, after trying so hard. (I worked with him for year.) Wonder what he’s gong to do with his 15 minutes of Andy Warhol fame. Write another novel that no one would otherwise buy, I suppose.
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Report on last night’s clash
Amberwaves Thanks for your reply – and I do agree the Courts are a good alternative. I suspect PAD is sensing the Government’s doing every mischief in every second it can delay the court cases, and thus the need to Stop it in its Tracks by taking action. (like a ‘retreating’ German Panzer stopped by a P51 Mustang in Saving Private Ryan)
Karmablues, Sumeth Thanks for the information! You guys are definitely on the situation. Karmablues, BTW, I’m a guy 😉
Report on last night’s clash
(From Sumeth – “I have to disagree with you, however much I hope I am wrong . . . Now perhaps you will begin to understand why some people want a change in this electoral system, in which the popular vote can be bought for a couple of dollars a head.”)
Change of course is all desirable Sumeth . . . but change must be achieved peacefully and within the accepted decorum of a law-abiding society. Whatever has become of Chamlong Srimuang’s creed of non-violence? If I get the impression that PAD is intent on achieving their version of change (not adequately articulated btw) at all costs, even if much of Bangkok burns in their quest, I am not alone.
I believe that good courageous people can still effect change by working, resisting and protesting within Thailand’s current political system. In a country where a wide income gap exists, and where educational and occupational opportunities are not equitably shared, Thailand’s democracy, warts-and-all still, continues to develop and be accepted by these very poor people who suffer the most iniquities and view their hope for the future by the power of one-man-one-vote.
Removing that power from these people because some corrupt ‘elected leader’ in the past had abused the system (other alternatives you could think could just be abused and worse Sumeth!) is neither moral, constructive and progressive.
Samak Sundaravej I personally believe had corrupted the ideals of Thailand’s democracy by his proxy ways and by his declared agenda to pardon Thaksin Shinawatra via constitutional amendment. But having said that, I will not be mislead by charlatans like Chamlong Srimuang and Sondhi Limthongkul and PAD who will insist that anyone who do not subscribe to their call for total rejection of the current Thai system is neither democractic, moral or good.
I may be decadent but I will not be regressive.
Report on last night’s clash
Nick:your “Culture” Shock; Thanks very much for your details of the accounts; I honestly thought that in being a photo-journalist (professional or hobby), you would have understood the insanity and violence that is associated in a struggle between 2 factions where “foot soldier/ aye-aye Sir” type persons and/or “uncertainty on heavy handedness of the other side” are involved;
In Thailand we’ve seen it in October 16, Black May where you would not imagine, basing on your own principles, that soldiers would fire onto protesters. Whether it be instilled propoganda (“The Protesters are danger to Our King!”) or Fear (“are those people approaching us going to just shout, or shout and baton, or shout and baton and knife, or shout and baton and knife and gun us?”) and the rest become emotional and chaos.
Unfortunately this is not a 1st World protest where two sides are white collar people who definitely come unarmed and at most fist fights happen [And thus I think your disappointment in both PAD and NPK/UDD/DAAD].
Even though the Objective of that night was NPK to clearly beat PAD out of the government house (100% physical intent), and PAD Guards to defend the perimeters and repel the NPK, I do know NPK were defeated and if it weren’t for Chamlong (who led reinforcements to Makkawan Bridge as I was in the Gov House) who stopped counter-attacking since the idea was to defend only. PAD were definitely prepped to know how far NPK was going to go: seeing the Thammasat incident, the Udon Incident, it was natural the preparation was heavy.
I can perhaps reflect your “Culture Shock” back to say, this is the reason why “Thai Style Democracy” should never be judged by “1st World Democracy”- politicians are different (same faces in 20-30 years, no resignation on scandal), voters are different (not politically active, some fully informed, easy-forget “mai pen rai”, many can be bought) which is very different dynamics overall, and thus I think with PAD in the picture, they augment the media to Watchdog the Politicians, at the same time give information to the Voters and thus breaks the vicious cycle of “bad politicians coming in by vote buying, and then raking up for the next election, loop”, but this is a different discussion altogether on how to break this vicious cycle.
Despite all this, I go on to say (as PAD has done), to observe minutes of silence for the event and especially the deceased. And on behalf of the ugliness that has happened, I agree with you both have been violent in that specific instance, and sorry for you that you were disappointed that you expected higher principles from both sides. I hope you be extra careful in your next endeavors to give us graphic images of the events.
And I hope you, like me, can accept that each time there is a bashing between NPK-PAD things will be this ugly – and every Thai in the street is always wary because it has been the norm. And we should condemn these Master Minders
At the mico-level, this looks like: PAD successfully defeated NPK, and get NPK links . However, the Macro-Level PPP game was to use State of Emergency to get back control; This seemed so similar to Noppadol’s case of Khao Phra Viharn Temple, where at a Micro-Level: Noppadon did something unconstitutional, and was “resigned” kicked out – seemingly PAD victory , where at a Macrolevel PPP game was possibly to sealed Thaksin meaty deals with his corrupt counterpart in Cambodia.
What I am alluding to is, these planned violences and chess moves are part of a skillful orchestration from Thaksin-PPP, who in my opinion do not give a hoot for the well-being of the people he hired, which as you had said in this thread some comments ago, we should jointly condemn those who “are pulling the strings” at the suffering of the people (maybe from some posh London penthouse somewhere or a shopping at Harrod’s).
“Has the Thai king had enough?”
amberwaves, who has more power in Thailand, the military or the PPP government? I think the assertions are more from experience of previous situations where the military has shown itself to be inextricably tied to the monarchy… as the monarchy is the state. Does this mean the monarchy is in an emergency situation? I don’t think so. Emergency? Those people who wield un-democratic power in Thailand are not under threat. Maybe Samak and Anupong are on the same page, but which one turned their page to suit the other?
Osbourne writes “But he has now resigned ‘for personal reasons’ associated with his wife’s health and it is impossible to believe that he would have done so without the approval of the palace.” – OK – so it’s impossible to believe he would have done so without the approval of the palace, but what’s to say he wouldn’t have resigned with approval of the palace under normal circumstances?
I don’t think anything objective can be interpreted by us from situations that are not entirely open to public scrutiny. Of course it would be great if we could have more accurate predictions about the conclusion of the present stand off, but we can’t – and feeding off scraps (or non-scraps), like Tej Bunnag’s resignation, as indications of potential democratic health only prolongs a tedious wait.
Power in Thailand will remain elusive and mysterious while the public is unable to access it. I think a valid indicator of democratic progression, or at the very least – an indication of the Bhumibol’s democratic values would therefore be for him to be more accessible. Until he is more accessible, I think it’s reasonable to assume that a failing democracy is in the interests of Bhumibol because it is a great marketing strategy for his “benevolent” reign – and subsequently, perhaps “Has Bhumibol been feeding off of the present crisis?” is a more fitting question.
“Has the Thai king had enough?”
Mr. Osborne’s observations are more than welcome, but he makes reference to a piece of “conventional wisdom” that I’ve never really seen explained:
“… the army is showing little inclination to enforce the state of emergency the prime minister has sought to impose…”
Perhaps I am being naive, but what evidence is there that Samak and Anupong are not on the same page, as this implies and others have said explicitly?
A very close parsing of their respective comments?
Or perhaps it is somehow predicated on the idea that a state of emergency automatically means all its provisions are to be enforced immediately and by all available means?
I’m all ears…
Report on last night’s clash
none of this came as surprise to us in Thailand. Samak has been trying to use violence to stop the PAD for weeks but the police and the army would not go along with his plans. So then he always came out to make statements to foreign reporters that he was the one who would not use force… this was simply not true.
Timeline:
Last week ending we heard the news that Thaksin was about to sell his football club, and that he had been speaking to PPP again.
Newin Chidchob flew to London to meet with Thaksin.
Next day the deal to sell Manchester City FC was signed.
On the same evening PPP ministers were overheard organizing a mob of paid recruits from the northeast who would be shipped to Bangkok to attack the PAD at government house.
The mob arrived in Bangkok in rented buses, were fed sufficient alcohol to make them easy to manipulate, armed, and sent to beat up the PAD. The rest is history.
Samak was so happy when he heard that a PAD member had been killed (it was not until alter that we heard it was one ofd the “reds”).
The point is this – it is the Samak-led government which is inciting people to violence and even hiring thugs to begin the process. More are being recruited at this very moment, and are on their way to Bangkok.
Is this democracy? Is this how elected governments normally behave in a civilized society?
I think not.
kuson – you have now experienced the dark and violent aspect of Thai society. All of us here are aware of this but somehow, perhaps due to the need for tourist dollars, we take great pains to deny it and hide it from the watching world.
matty – I have to disagree with you, however much I hope I am wrong, I believe that Samak will not back down, that the army will not be able to maintain its non-involvement much longer, that a bloodbath is coming, and that after all is over, nothing will change, and some new reincarnation of PPP backed by Thaksin Shinawatra will arise like a phoenix from the ashes.
Pigs just cannot take their snouts out of the trough – in the same way that leopards cannot change their spots.
Now perhaps you will begin to understand why some people want a change in this electoral system, in which the popular vote can be bought for a couple of dollars a head.
“Has the Thai king had enough?”
Tej Bunnag was forced to take the job, he didn’t want it.
It’s only fair to let him off the hook again.
I would’t read too much else into it.
Interview with Burma’s Ma Thanegi
Jeff – You may find some useful material on http://www.networkmyanmar.org. I met Ma Thanegi in January.
Derek Tonkin
Chairman Network Myanmar
Interview with Burma’s Ma Thanegi
I am currently completing an Open University course and have chosen Burma/Myanmar as my subject. This is a very emotive and complicated situation. I am only scratching the surface.
A.H.Jeff Hemmings
“Has the Thai king had enough?”
I have just posted a blog about what I think the Referndum questions should be if the government really wants a solution to the current crisis, instead of just a rubber stamp to continue the manipulation agenda:
http://www.nganadeeleg.blogspot.com/
Perhaps the following additional question could be thrown in for good measure:
Should the King appoint an interim government? Y or N
and what about this one, to put an end to all the snide nonsense:
Should Thailand be:
(A): A constitutional monarchy?
or
(B): A republic ?
🙂
In sufficient clothing
Ajaan Chotiros has revealed to everyone who runs a website how to maximize traffic.
She’s still a spike in our web traffic graph, a year and a half later.
“Has the Thai king had enough?”
“He concludes that Tej’s ‘departure has all the elements of a signal that the king wants a rapid end to the uncertainty that grips Thailand.'” >> We did not need this “signal” to guess what was on the king’s (and on many other peoples’) mind, really.
Chang Noi backs the rural constitution
On the day I placed my previous comment, a PAD leader said that the resignation of Samak would merely be a condition to negotiate the “new politics.” In the Bangkok Post of September 4, there was a long interview with Sondhi, which included statements on “political reform” as envisaged by the PAD. What follows are the relevant parts.
“And four, a new political order must be set.
We don’t mind what the proportion will be between elected and appointed representatives (in parliament) as long as the people are allowed a direct role in running the country. Even if it’s 20% direct participation by the people, it is a victory for us (the PAD).
The proportion is a secondary matter, something tentative. Direct participation will lessen the extra-parliamentary pressure on those running the country. If people are kept out of the equation of power, the pressure bearing down on the administration will be fierce.
The MPs work for the vested interests of political parties and for personal benefits. In other countries, there are lobbyists who speak for people’s groups to push their MPs and senators to pass laws, but we have no such system to speak of here.
Thai politics do not represent the diverse needs of the various segments of society. The MPs are no help to their constituents because they answer to the policies handed down by financiers who helped vote them in. The civic sector is also an interest group.
We’ve never had MPs who are truly representative of the labourers or farmers who make up the majority population. There has been no channel through which these groups could win seats in parliament.
Who in their right mind would spend some 30 million baht buying votes if they weren’t intent on recouping that investment once elected?
…
A: Mr Abhisit would still be a far better choice than the PPP if the House remained intact and the coalition partners switched their support to Mr Abhisit. However, Mr Abhisit must abide by our demands and he must be committed to political reform.
…
A 50:50 proposal has come forth. If 480 MPs is just too many, perhaps we could have two MPs for each province or 152 MPs overall. Another 152 MPs could be appointed. To achieve this, we would have to alter the charter.
..
A: Everyone loves our King and despises Mr Samak. No one in the upper strata of society accepts Mr Samak because he is abrasive and rude. Intelligent and well-to-do people, people in the ruling class, doctors, nurses and businessmen and leaders, do not accept Mr Samak. Everyone here at the rally speaks the same language.”
I don’t think that Sondhi read Chang Noi’s article, and I think he would not care at all. As a letter to the editor (Nation, Sept. 4) bluntly stated, the election was bought by the politicians and thus illegitimate. Therefore, “the people” can topple the government. From this perspective, which includes the PAD, things are really that simple. Facts do not count much. On the other hand, provincial political structures really are not normally accessible to ordinary people, but very exclusionary. Will we see another round of “political reform,” this time not led by Prawase, Anand, or Borwornsak, but by Sondhi and Chamlong? They demand to amend the constitution in a way that abolishes the basic structure of electoral representation as we know it.
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
The very important implication of the original Walker & Farrelly post, is that just by saying nothing, the King is revealing his political alignment. It is the same as that of the police and Gen. Anupong, who have done nothing when they could have set up a cordon around Government House cutting off food and water, only letting people out. Unless the cordon was attacked by the mob, the place could have been cleared peacefully in a couple of days. They are all aligned against the government.
A PAD strategy?
Jim, Anti-PAD groups against dictatorship do not carry firearms.
We don’t have footage of who held the gun.
We do however have your boys wielding a very large knife and slingshot that night. A photo is part of the yahoo gallery—google with “pro-government knife bangkok protest yahoo” to see the image.
PAD does have sticks, goggles, helmets, shields and tires.
Pro-gov rioters have their headquarters currently at Samut Prakan’s city square where alcohol is distributed and truckloads of men are moved into BKK to confront PAD, again led by PPP LEADERS!
Your Pro-gov rioters have also been known to expose their privates for the camera, throw stones and there is extensive footage of them attacking PAD (before their stage was even set up) in Udon Thani.
Have you been following the news???
Report on last night’s clash
“To Samak: When reporters asked you about the dead man, you shot back belligerently: ‘Whose side was he on?’ Your eyes tell all. The heartlessness. The cruelty. When you started dividing even among the dead, we knew we could not let you carry on.” – from BangkokPost Sep5
Most of you must have surely read this commentary at Bangkok Post, worth deserving a re-read at NM.
Statemanship is sorely lacking in Thailand’s PM. And lacking that quality almost guarantees that Samak won’t be PM and proxy for Thaksin for much longer.
Thai crisis. Royal silence.
Maybe HMK feels now that he would be better off staying in Switzerland.
In sufficient clothing
What’s the matter with you people anyway? The girl is simply demonstrating the concept of sufficiency economy: as little of everything, including clothing, as possible. If you are of a clean mind, you can see that the girl is simply stunning.
Australia and the current Thai crisis
Thank you so much, Australia, for your friendship and concern. Unfortunately, Thais are unlike Australians in that they are often irrational about what should be rational.
Australia and the current Thai crisis
“we hope that the Thai political system …will resolve itself politically through the parliamentary and democratic institutions…”
…and that whoever is in power does not attempt to gut the constitution and stack government ministries with their cronies who should be serving 90-year jail sentences for sucking the life blood of the state [pocketing government money]. Amen.
“This at a time when, according to a number of reports, an Australian university lecturer named Harry Nicolaides, who has worked in Chiang Rai province and in the south, has been arrested for lèse majesté.”
Harry finally got what he wanted, after trying so hard. (I worked with him for year.) Wonder what he’s gong to do with his 15 minutes of Andy Warhol fame. Write another novel that no one would otherwise buy, I suppose.