I think the police are trying to be a little murky here and scary at that.
As the British National Corpus clearly shows, there are a lot of neutral usages, perhaps with a slight dash of negative, but you can’t expect journalists to be bubbly and vivacious cheerleaders all the time:
* The government is now set to have a fresh stab at changing what all sides in the debate agree are murky laws.
We’re about as well-positioned as anyone to succeed in the murky environment that fiscal 1993 looks like it will be.
* People either reached for the mediaeval Holy Roman Empire as a model, which had been constituted quite differently and which was, as a result, very misleading in a number of different ways, or, hardly less disastrously, for the murky concept of the Volk.
* In the interests of shedding a hard journalistic light on a somewhat murky area we decided to pay them a visit.
* The question of US military casualties remains murky.
* But these are murky areas into which the unwary amateur ventures at his peril.
Dark and gloomy examples:
* I would be wary of eating anything caught in these murky waters.
* A most terrible appearance, the dense mass of clouds being covered with a murky tinge, with fierce flashes of lightning.
* The pond is murky with dead leaves which are decomposing.
* Divers found the waters were so murky that they could see nothing and had to make their search by touch.
* The melon was boiled and brought to Dot next dinner time with her chicken broth all around like a shattered building surrounded by deep trenches full of murky rainwater.
…the murky green of the lower waters of the Amazon River…
* The sea was a dull murky green, and angry.
* The water was thick and murky, full of currents that ran rudely against her face.
Catfish of several species do so and appear to be calling to one another as they move in murky water.
* I don’t know, my Lord, but the waters I am wading through are deep, murky and treacherous.
* Stop burning the candle at both ends or you’ll have more murky mornings.
* Yes, sea-trout had indeed returned to the murky river but not via the Clyde as everyone thought.
There are some negative conceptual ones:
* Another shaft of light into the murky depths of the human psyche was alleged to be cast by the discovery of the brand image.
# 21, 37 observer: I think the contrast Craig Reynolds wanted to highlight in the quote I cited was not between farang and Thai, but between farang journalists and (farang) academics. And among these groups, the latter seem to be “less vulnerable than journalists in certain ways”, as Thongchai notes, though certainly not immune.
EC rules that Chart Thai, Matchimathipataya be dissolved
(BangkokPost.com) – Election Commission (EC) resolved Friday that Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties be dissolved.
Election commissioners voted 4:1 that executives of the two parties knew about or conspired in vote-buying schemes in the Dec 23 general election last year.
Somchai Juengprasert is the sole commissioner who decided that the two parties should not be dissolved.
EC will forward the cases to the attorney-general, who will then recommend the cases to the Constitution Court.
The Constitution Court will be the one giving the final rulings on the cases.
BP 11 April 2008
That’s not nice to do to an already confused person. Now, I’ll be spending the whole holiday wondering who else I am and how to get in touch (or stay away).
Dear Dr Win Maung,
i read your comment with great care, some of the fact you are pointing out is true, some of them is not, i am not the one who think that i am a doctor and know everything.
the problem is we are trying to find political solution not religious philosophy. After i read your comment, i realized that your idea is intellectually corrupt as well as politically correct idiot. no personal attack to you.
with respect to you
and also Dear Naw Naw,
i am not going to blame to you, some people like you are so negative and uneducated towards other ethnic or race, the world is enough to hate and mistrust. please try to read loads of book about geopolitic and social science. please
Teth: Good points about Thai websites. My pount is that the persecution has not been directed at farang alone.
Somsak: I tend to agree with the indirect Sri Sao link theory. Some sycophant suck up eager to bring a a goodie to his boss to get a reward or protection from something. The first thing I thought of was whether a policeman in the recent car theft scandal needs to brush up royalist credentials to aid in his immunity. But that does sound a bit too cynical, even for me.
At the end of the day Chris Baker’s theory resonates. Kill a chicken to sacre the monkies. It does seem that someone wants to keep those farang journos in line.
Lese majeste is not so easy as laissez majeste. This “majeste” is free to anything at will. In some cases he seems to exhibit a symptom of senility. For example, he told a group of judges to intervene in the administration of the country, clearly confusing the executive branch and the judicial branch, which was against the constitution. Of course, nobody openly objected, for this “majeste” is a super-being incapable of making human errors.
If you spend 600 baht on the VCD of the 23 December session of FCCT, you’ll find Jonathan Head does not say very much except in his introductory remarks as moderator. As part of setting the scene for the book launch, he mentioned in passing ‘that murky issue of what role, what influence does the institution of the monarchy
have.’
Now try looking up ‘murky’ in an English-Thai dictionary. Most give р╕бр╕╖р╕Ф and р╕бр╕╖р╕Фр╕бр╕▒р╕з (roughly: dark) among the first few options.
So has Jonathan Head just been lost in translation? Maybe. But I suspect it is not quite so simple. In the second half of last year, the FCCT held two sessions which touched on the monarchy. These complaints are an unsubtle way to warn the club against getting into the habit of this sort of thing. In this case the complaint is against the only journalist involved (not the three Thai achan, not the farang achan) because that sends a message to the club.
Khun BP writes: It only takes 1 nationalist zealot to press a complaint, but there must be a couple of people behind. I doubt anyone from the Sri Sao Thewes area or the Palace is involved and would look more in the direction of right wing nationalists.
Actually, the first group I think of is the Si Sao people, either receiving instruction from their Master or doing it out of blind loyalty to their boss. The question I ask is : Who would want to get Jakkraphob? I think Mr Head’s case is a kind of ‘by product’ of the first target, a warning-intemidation to foreigners. The Si Sao circle would fit both purposes quite perfectly in my view.
Another possibility, however strange it may seem, is someone inside the PPP-Thaksin camp itself. Someone who has a grudge against Jakkraphob. But it is difficult to imagine the PPP-Thaksin people wanting to alienate foreign journalists at this time.
P.S. Is my usual email being blocked here? Everytime I use it to post I got rejected. I have to use another email to even see the message “your post await moderation.” Pleae explain. Thank you.
In Thailand we have academic fawning in place of academic freedom. One must fawn if he knows what is good for him. Look at all the honorary degrees “humbly presented” to the royalty, and one wonders if Thai universities have not gone berserk. And royal persons can be nothing but first academically at any Thai university, which means of course first-class honors. So the key words here are “fawn” and “fake”.
re: Dawid
Thais need a day like the ‘feast of fools’ in medieval Europe
Don’t they already have Songkran? The ones I’ve experienced have been the closest thing to Saturnalia in this modern world. Or, perhaps, is Songkran closer to the medieval Festum Asinorum?
I’d think there’s little liklihood that he is a “politically naive colonel” if he’s done this twice.
It only takes 1 nationalist zealot to press a complaint, but there must be a couple of people behind. I doubt anyone from the Sri Sao Thewes area or the Palace is involved and would look more in the direction of right wing nationalists. It is more likely just a couple of individuals with agendas to push. I think the question is, who brought the DVDs from the FCCT for both complaints? NOTE: In both cases, a DVD was provided to the police as evidence and DVDs, as I understand, can be brought from the FCCT. Someone must have brought them, exactly how many are sold? Has someone been buying them all and combing through them? Or is it just these two? There can’t be that many people who buy them.
I understand Head used the word “murky” at one stage – because as we all know Prem and HM the King are above politics to to suggest otherwise is well a no-no so it can’t be considered “murky”.
[…] aside, Jonathan Head, the BBC’s Thailand correspondent, could be in serious trouble. Thanks to New Mandala and Andrew for covering this. From IHT: A police officer filed a criminal complaint Tuesday seeking […]
Dog-Lover, strange you should call it “Anglo-American” since the most prominent vestiges of feudalism lies in the Kingdom of HM Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor.
Nicholas : Very funny indeed. I think the CIA might be behind all this anti-king propaganda. They have it in for the royals. They are secretly trying to establish Anglo-American hegemony by wiping out feudal vestiges worldwide. They use media figures to do this.
To injure the king is to injure his sacred royal body – the mandalic nation, its a loss of face for Thais.
Thais need a day like the ‘feast of fools’ in medieval Europe,
mock the king and monarchy, politicians etc just for a day,
let out all the repressed energy for goodness sake.
I have always known hobby and ngana to be one and the same . . .
In fact I am also sure Samak Sundaravej and Bangkok Pundit are also one and the same. Samak and Pundit have such affection for Thaksin . . and both believe that corrupt politics is the norm anywhere. But it is the cunning and genius of Bangkok Pundit to be able disguised himself as Samak . . . feigning mangled English!
Andrew Walker of course is no other than Dodi’s father – Al Fayed considering their openly deep animosity against royalty!
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Lèse majesté and the BBC
I think the police are trying to be a little murky here and scary at that.
As the British National Corpus clearly shows, there are a lot of neutral usages, perhaps with a slight dash of negative, but you can’t expect journalists to be bubbly and vivacious cheerleaders all the time:
* The government is now set to have a fresh stab at changing what all sides in the debate agree are murky laws.
We’re about as well-positioned as anyone to succeed in the murky environment that fiscal 1993 looks like it will be.
* People either reached for the mediaeval Holy Roman Empire as a model, which had been constituted quite differently and which was, as a result, very misleading in a number of different ways, or, hardly less disastrously, for the murky concept of the Volk.
* In the interests of shedding a hard journalistic light on a somewhat murky area we decided to pay them a visit.
* The question of US military casualties remains murky.
* But these are murky areas into which the unwary amateur ventures at his peril.
Dark and gloomy examples:
* I would be wary of eating anything caught in these murky waters.
* A most terrible appearance, the dense mass of clouds being covered with a murky tinge, with fierce flashes of lightning.
* The pond is murky with dead leaves which are decomposing.
* Divers found the waters were so murky that they could see nothing and had to make their search by touch.
* The melon was boiled and brought to Dot next dinner time with her chicken broth all around like a shattered building surrounded by deep trenches full of murky rainwater.
…the murky green of the lower waters of the Amazon River…
* The sea was a dull murky green, and angry.
* The water was thick and murky, full of currents that ran rudely against her face.
Catfish of several species do so and appear to be calling to one another as they move in murky water.
* I don’t know, my Lord, but the waters I am wading through are deep, murky and treacherous.
* Stop burning the candle at both ends or you’ll have more murky mornings.
* Yes, sea-trout had indeed returned to the murky river but not via the Clyde as everyone thought.
There are some negative conceptual ones:
* Another shaft of light into the murky depths of the human psyche was alleged to be cast by the discovery of the brand image.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
# 21, 37 observer: I think the contrast Craig Reynolds wanted to highlight in the quote I cited was not between farang and Thai, but between farang journalists and (farang) academics. And among these groups, the latter seem to be “less vulnerable than journalists in certain ways”, as Thongchai notes, though certainly not immune.
What hope of amending attitudes?
More fun ahead in Thai politics!
EC rules that Chart Thai, Matchimathipataya be dissolved
(BangkokPost.com) – Election Commission (EC) resolved Friday that Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties be dissolved.
Election commissioners voted 4:1 that executives of the two parties knew about or conspired in vote-buying schemes in the Dec 23 general election last year.
Somchai Juengprasert is the sole commissioner who decided that the two parties should not be dissolved.
EC will forward the cases to the attorney-general, who will then recommend the cases to the Constitution Court.
The Constitution Court will be the one giving the final rulings on the cases.
BP 11 April 2008
Whatever happened to Colonel Jeru?
GH,
That’s not nice to do to an already confused person. Now, I’ll be spending the whole holiday wondering who else I am and how to get in touch (or stay away).
Interview with Burma’s Ma Thanegi
Dear Dr Win Maung,
i read your comment with great care, some of the fact you are pointing out is true, some of them is not, i am not the one who think that i am a doctor and know everything.
the problem is we are trying to find political solution not religious philosophy. After i read your comment, i realized that your idea is intellectually corrupt as well as politically correct idiot. no personal attack to you.
with respect to you
and also Dear Naw Naw,
i am not going to blame to you, some people like you are so negative and uneducated towards other ethnic or race, the world is enough to hate and mistrust. please try to read loads of book about geopolitic and social science. please
Whatever happened to Colonel Jeru?
Observer, it’s you here. Hello me!
*commence Dr Who theme music*
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Teth: Good points about Thai websites. My pount is that the persecution has not been directed at farang alone.
Somsak: I tend to agree with the indirect Sri Sao link theory. Some sycophant suck up eager to bring a a goodie to his boss to get a reward or protection from something. The first thing I thought of was whether a policeman in the recent car theft scandal needs to brush up royalist credentials to aid in his immunity. But that does sound a bit too cynical, even for me.
At the end of the day Chris Baker’s theory resonates. Kill a chicken to sacre the monkies. It does seem that someone wants to keep those farang journos in line.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Lese majeste is not so easy as laissez majeste. This “majeste” is free to anything at will. In some cases he seems to exhibit a symptom of senility. For example, he told a group of judges to intervene in the administration of the country, clearly confusing the executive branch and the judicial branch, which was against the constitution. Of course, nobody openly objected, for this “majeste” is a super-being incapable of making human errors.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
If you spend 600 baht on the VCD of the 23 December session of FCCT, you’ll find Jonathan Head does not say very much except in his introductory remarks as moderator. As part of setting the scene for the book launch, he mentioned in passing ‘that murky issue of what role, what influence does the institution of the monarchy
have.’
Now try looking up ‘murky’ in an English-Thai dictionary. Most give р╕бр╕╖р╕Ф and р╕бр╕╖р╕Фр╕бр╕▒р╕з (roughly: dark) among the first few options.
So has Jonathan Head just been lost in translation? Maybe. But I suspect it is not quite so simple. In the second half of last year, the FCCT held two sessions which touched on the monarchy. These complaints are an unsubtle way to warn the club against getting into the habit of this sort of thing. In this case the complaint is against the only journalist involved (not the three Thai achan, not the farang achan) because that sends a message to the club.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Khun BP writes:
It only takes 1 nationalist zealot to press a complaint, but there must be a couple of people behind. I doubt anyone from the Sri Sao Thewes area or the Palace is involved and would look more in the direction of right wing nationalists.
Actually, the first group I think of is the Si Sao people, either receiving instruction from their Master or doing it out of blind loyalty to their boss. The question I ask is : Who would want to get Jakkraphob? I think Mr Head’s case is a kind of ‘by product’ of the first target, a warning-intemidation to foreigners. The Si Sao circle would fit both purposes quite perfectly in my view.
Another possibility, however strange it may seem, is someone inside the PPP-Thaksin camp itself. Someone who has a grudge against Jakkraphob. But it is difficult to imagine the PPP-Thaksin people wanting to alienate foreign journalists at this time.
P.S. Is my usual email being blocked here? Everytime I use it to post I got rejected. I have to use another email to even see the message “your post await moderation.” Pleae explain. Thank you.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
In Thailand we have academic fawning in place of academic freedom. One must fawn if he knows what is good for him. Look at all the honorary degrees “humbly presented” to the royalty, and one wonders if Thai universities have not gone berserk. And royal persons can be nothing but first academically at any Thai university, which means of course first-class honors. So the key words here are “fawn” and “fake”.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Teth: I was being facetious.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
re: Dawid
Thais need a day like the ‘feast of fools’ in medieval Europe
Don’t they already have Songkran? The ones I’ve experienced have been the closest thing to Saturnalia in this modern world. Or, perhaps, is Songkran closer to the medieval Festum Asinorum?
Io, Saturnalia!
Sankranti svaha!
Lèse majesté and the BBC
I’d think there’s little liklihood that he is a “politically naive colonel” if he’s done this twice.
It only takes 1 nationalist zealot to press a complaint, but there must be a couple of people behind. I doubt anyone from the Sri Sao Thewes area or the Palace is involved and would look more in the direction of right wing nationalists. It is more likely just a couple of individuals with agendas to push. I think the question is, who brought the DVDs from the FCCT for both complaints? NOTE: In both cases, a DVD was provided to the police as evidence and DVDs, as I understand, can be brought from the FCCT. Someone must have brought them, exactly how many are sold? Has someone been buying them all and combing through them? Or is it just these two? There can’t be that many people who buy them.
I understand Head used the word “murky” at one stage – because as we all know Prem and HM the King are above politics to to suggest otherwise is well a no-no so it can’t be considered “murky”.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
[…] aside, Jonathan Head, the BBC’s Thailand correspondent, could be in serious trouble. Thanks to New Mandala and Andrew for covering this. From IHT: A police officer filed a criminal complaint Tuesday seeking […]
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Dog-Lover, strange you should call it “Anglo-American” since the most prominent vestiges of feudalism lies in the Kingdom of HM Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Observer, you should know that there are Thai websites even more fierce than New Mandala. Plenty.
The thing is that they keep their security tight. Recently one was harassed and has moved their hosting overseas.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Nicholas : Very funny indeed. I think the CIA might be behind all this anti-king propaganda. They have it in for the royals. They are secretly trying to establish Anglo-American hegemony by wiping out feudal vestiges worldwide. They use media figures to do this.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
To injure the king is to injure his sacred royal body – the mandalic nation, its a loss of face for Thais.
Thais need a day like the ‘feast of fools’ in medieval Europe,
mock the king and monarchy, politicians etc just for a day,
let out all the repressed energy for goodness sake.
Whatever happened to Colonel Jeru?
I have always known hobby and ngana to be one and the same . . .
In fact I am also sure Samak Sundaravej and Bangkok Pundit are also one and the same. Samak and Pundit have such affection for Thaksin . . and both believe that corrupt politics is the norm anywhere. But it is the cunning and genius of Bangkok Pundit to be able disguised himself as Samak . . . feigning mangled English!
Andrew Walker of course is no other than Dodi’s father – Al Fayed considering their openly deep animosity against royalty!