…………thank you to Paul Handley and to New Mandala for providing an access point to this very informative history of the Privy Council and its various roles and interests….I think it is quite useful and beneficial to have an open dialogue on the Privy Council’s role and by inference, the role of the King……whether one agrees or disagrees with the Council’s policies and efforts, I think it is normal to assume and accept that the King and his Council have an understandable and essential role in the Thai situation and the idea that an open discussion and knowledge of this role should not be allowed makes no sense at all as well as casting a more negative aspect on the Privy Council and King’s role than would be cast in a more open and straightforward discussion and atmosphere……..
Srichant Uthayopas, director of the Industrial Works Department’s Hazardous Substance Control Bureau, stated a couple of years ago that ‘Safety and environmental protection are important, but economics is more so.’ I think that sort of sums things up. Onto specific questions: Why is it that in spite of declaring the import of the most dangerous form of asbestos (crocidolite) illegal in 1992, figures for the year 2002 from the Thai Customs Department show that 451 tons were imported? Why is it that the Thai government defines the safe occupational exposure to asbestos as 5 fibers per ml, a figure which is 50 times (I believe)the minimum exposure level permissible in the US? Finally, I think I’m correct in saying that, to date, no cases of asbestos disease have been reported to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund -do I detect a cover up somewhere?
It is good news that the traditional argument of revolt due to deprivation and neglect of the southern South is not applied anymore. Ji is right in his argument that the violence and conflicts can not be solved by state repression. He is right as well in his pointing out that even though violence is wide spread, it remains quite well contained. This is most obvious when comparing it with other separatist or minority conflicts in Southeast Asia. Neither state repression nor revolt is organized well enough to define territories as under their respective control. Compare this f.e. to Burma or Aceh.
Looking at the conflict empirically the main fact is the extremely low level of organisation of those involved in it, which might be a reason why the conflict remains so well contained. Often one speaks of “the state”. In the south those organisations associated to the state like the administration, military, police etc. are strongly factionalized, with each faction and clique following its own agendas and interests as well as associating with others. The “movement” is probably as factionalized. It can even be doubted whether such a “movement” exists. It seems far more probable that very loosely linked small groups and individuals are violent and link this on an ideological level to wider issues like establishing an independent Islamic state etc. Thus, the “movement” is more of a virtual kind. This has the big advantage that neither policies nor visions, strategies or ideologies have to be defined. A sound analysis of Islamic doctrine does therefore not help to clarify matters, and it makes a “battle of ideas” rather complicated. I guess that neither the “state” nor the ”movement” have much of ideas to battle about. More of a reason for battle are personal interests with regards to power, influence and money (usually all are closely connected).
The current state of affairs of contained multiple conflicts that have violence in common, and thereby dissolve pattern of control and regulation be it social control within communities, control linked to patronage, self-control or control by state authorities, has the advantage for many to follow their own interests with regards to money, influence, power etc. For these violence and maintaining the conflict as violent is a means for their personal ends. This makes pacification difficult. Too many of those who do are in positiions of influence and power, derive their status exactly from the ongoing violence. Thus, pacification would be quite detrimental to their interests. However, this instrumental analysis of violence is insufficient. Violence can become and end in itself. We only have to turn to hooligans etc. Namely for the bored youth violence can be just such an end in itself, without or with limited fictive reasons. Reference to Islam, the “movement” etc. have in this case nothing or little to do with motivations. In this ontext one should remember that violence always implies shifts of power differentials. So, throwing a bomb or shooting a soldier or policeman provides the experience (even if it is only very brief) of being powerful.
Besides comparing the current conflict with other minority conflicts in Southeast Asia, the violence in the South has to be seen in comparative perspective to the rest of Thailand. Violence is very wide spread in Thailand and a gun certainly is an accepted tool to handle competition. Furthermore, all over Thailand the rapid economic, social and cultural changes have dissolved collectives and forms of control of violence. Elsewhere in Thailand too, this dissolution of communities has not been compensated by integration into a working state administration and civil society. Thus, individualism and egocentric personal enrichment, with little concern about how this is achieved, is common. The difference to the South is that these processes are more extreme there then elsewhere.
Another aspect usually not sufficiently taken into consideration is Kelantan. (However, not in the sense that the insurgents hide there). Keleantan certainly is a special state in Malaysia, and many issues raised in Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala are in Kelantan addressed to the Malaysian state as well. Instead of being fixed to Islam (which provides good media coverage though) it might be more useful to look at traits of a multicultural “Pattani” culture, which has been destroyed in Thailand as well as Malaysia, without any new institutions arrising.
The conclusion is therefore that a reduction of violence in the South can only be achieved with far reaching social reforms and changes in Thailand all together.
I see asbestos roofs on houses throughout Thailand and question people about the dangers – they are totally unaware or are mai bpen rai about it. Do hospitals diagnose for asbestos related deaths? It’s an insidious product that could be causing great damage to working people. Canada exports but cannot use asbestos in its own industries.
sorry, I made it up, It just came into my head, I was getting carried away with millennial fervour and it was an attempted joke on the latent anxiety about the future of the monarchy.
But I won’t do in future,
this is a very reputable blog
as i’m finding out.
Snarls, others: I have forwarded the paper to Nich here for posting; I’ll try to post it in another public place. There was an error in the version delivered at the conference which is corrected in this one, about the date of a key change to the constitution.
Snarls: according to the government’s official publications for the event, the king was at Wat Boworn over 22.10-5.11.56. As I found in researching the book, there is a wealth of inaccurate and imprecise info about the king — like specific dates and locations, harmless but still in error — in both government and non-government publications.
I spent quite a lot of time on the Chiang Mai air issue several years ago. The big issues were agricultural burning and vehicle pollution, largely from mafia operated taxis and shuttles, which were untouchable. I don’t recall asbestos ever getting even the smallest mention in surveys of pollution sources. Finally, I haven’t seen asbestos cited as a major of worker injuries or sickness. Siam Cement is doing much motre damage to the environment by burning coal and all sorts of junk in its kilns.
Off topic, but I was wondering what you guys thought of the front page of the Bangkok Post which reported on dangerous air borne dust particles, and his majesty’s preparedness to step in to resolve the issue.
Surprising is that there is no mention of asbestos dust and the vast amounts spewed into the air daily as workers cut, grind and saw asbestos cement on almost any residential and commercial building. I have yet to see a Thai worker wearing protective gear. I have never, in Thailand, seen an asbestos containing product labelled as such. If you live in Thailand ask yourself where that dust from the new housing estate being built down the road ends up? If you dare, then look in the internet under ‘asbestos + health.’
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the largest importer of asbestos Siam Cement? Isn’t Siam Cement the largest money earner of the crown property bureau? And isn’t Thailand now one of the world’s formost asbestos importers? I’m left wondering if asbestos dangers will ever get a mention given the royal linkage -certainly not in the utterly gutless Banglok Post and the (almost) equally pathetic Nation.
I just sent you 3 pdf files (Somchai’s and Prawit’s papers on Less Majesty Law, Handley on Privy Council).
I do have the whole disk (these three files were not on it) but I can’t sent lots of files at once. I live in uncivilized place with pre-historic (slow) internet connection.
Samak is certainly not stupid enough to listen to, let alone act on, the ravings of Sutthichai Yoon or The Nation. There does not seem to be a single person on the editorial staff who aren’t constantly looking to twist every fact into a hysterical rant about how Thaksin, the TRT, and the PPP are on the verge of destroying Thailand.
However, it would be interesting to open this issue up a bit. How about if Samak and his allies can provide evidence of unconstitutional manipulation of the government? Would The Nation commit to publishing it and aggressive investigating the issue with an intention to expose and punish the manipulators?
I am not of a paranoid nature and so I really do think Sopon Ongara believes the crap he spews regularly, but I wouldn’t blame Samak one bit if the thinks they are all paid by the invisible hand itself for spreading what does seem to me to be an orchestrated arnesal of falsehood.
Is there anyone on this planet who does not believe that there is a fierce battle being waged between two factions of society, one depending on the strength of numbers through rural support ansd the other the strength of influence from urban support? You can argue that the invisible hands are good, bad or indifferent, but is it really possible to think that there is no manipulation going on?
As ‘Lord of the Land’, since early on in his reign, I suppose the king had to come up with some sort of scientific/Buddhist/nostalgic sounding philosophy, to illustrate his all-wiseness, his legitimacy over the mandala- particulary the rural masses. It’s just part of the whole royal neo-Hindu/Buddhist mythological, cultural and ideological complex that possesses and inspires the psyche of the Thai nation.
If I’m not wrong many Thais know that the world is chaotic and capitalist, that greed and ambition are the reality. It’s the ‘kali yuga’ , the age of materialism and lack of self-restraint. Many of the older generation may still however if even subconsciously nostalagise for the good old days, back on the rice farm, a paternal all-wise and moral king, the rule of the dhamma, the millennial golden age.
I do too, even though I’m not Thai!
“When the the ninth King passes into his heavenly abode
may Maitreya Buddha come to rule the kingdom of the Thais.”
For example, to make this and that merit for the king again and again is too much. Thai people are about to forget to make merit for its own merit. When Thai children have to stop crying for the king, that’s going too far.
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Paul Handley on Thailand’s Privy Council
…………thank you to Paul Handley and to New Mandala for providing an access point to this very informative history of the Privy Council and its various roles and interests….I think it is quite useful and beneficial to have an open dialogue on the Privy Council’s role and by inference, the role of the King……whether one agrees or disagrees with the Council’s policies and efforts, I think it is normal to assume and accept that the King and his Council have an understandable and essential role in the Thai situation and the idea that an open discussion and knowledge of this role should not be allowed makes no sense at all as well as casting a more negative aspect on the Privy Council and King’s role than would be cast in a more open and straightforward discussion and atmosphere……..
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Srichant Uthayopas, director of the Industrial Works Department’s Hazardous Substance Control Bureau, stated a couple of years ago that ‘Safety and environmental protection are important, but economics is more so.’ I think that sort of sums things up. Onto specific questions: Why is it that in spite of declaring the import of the most dangerous form of asbestos (crocidolite) illegal in 1992, figures for the year 2002 from the Thai Customs Department show that 451 tons were imported? Why is it that the Thai government defines the safe occupational exposure to asbestos as 5 fibers per ml, a figure which is 50 times (I believe)the minimum exposure level permissible in the US? Finally, I think I’m correct in saying that, to date, no cases of asbestos disease have been reported to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund -do I detect a cover up somewhere?
An unwinnable war?
It is good news that the traditional argument of revolt due to deprivation and neglect of the southern South is not applied anymore. Ji is right in his argument that the violence and conflicts can not be solved by state repression. He is right as well in his pointing out that even though violence is wide spread, it remains quite well contained. This is most obvious when comparing it with other separatist or minority conflicts in Southeast Asia. Neither state repression nor revolt is organized well enough to define territories as under their respective control. Compare this f.e. to Burma or Aceh.
Looking at the conflict empirically the main fact is the extremely low level of organisation of those involved in it, which might be a reason why the conflict remains so well contained. Often one speaks of “the state”. In the south those organisations associated to the state like the administration, military, police etc. are strongly factionalized, with each faction and clique following its own agendas and interests as well as associating with others. The “movement” is probably as factionalized. It can even be doubted whether such a “movement” exists. It seems far more probable that very loosely linked small groups and individuals are violent and link this on an ideological level to wider issues like establishing an independent Islamic state etc. Thus, the “movement” is more of a virtual kind. This has the big advantage that neither policies nor visions, strategies or ideologies have to be defined. A sound analysis of Islamic doctrine does therefore not help to clarify matters, and it makes a “battle of ideas” rather complicated. I guess that neither the “state” nor the ”movement” have much of ideas to battle about. More of a reason for battle are personal interests with regards to power, influence and money (usually all are closely connected).
The current state of affairs of contained multiple conflicts that have violence in common, and thereby dissolve pattern of control and regulation be it social control within communities, control linked to patronage, self-control or control by state authorities, has the advantage for many to follow their own interests with regards to money, influence, power etc. For these violence and maintaining the conflict as violent is a means for their personal ends. This makes pacification difficult. Too many of those who do are in positiions of influence and power, derive their status exactly from the ongoing violence. Thus, pacification would be quite detrimental to their interests. However, this instrumental analysis of violence is insufficient. Violence can become and end in itself. We only have to turn to hooligans etc. Namely for the bored youth violence can be just such an end in itself, without or with limited fictive reasons. Reference to Islam, the “movement” etc. have in this case nothing or little to do with motivations. In this ontext one should remember that violence always implies shifts of power differentials. So, throwing a bomb or shooting a soldier or policeman provides the experience (even if it is only very brief) of being powerful.
Besides comparing the current conflict with other minority conflicts in Southeast Asia, the violence in the South has to be seen in comparative perspective to the rest of Thailand. Violence is very wide spread in Thailand and a gun certainly is an accepted tool to handle competition. Furthermore, all over Thailand the rapid economic, social and cultural changes have dissolved collectives and forms of control of violence. Elsewhere in Thailand too, this dissolution of communities has not been compensated by integration into a working state administration and civil society. Thus, individualism and egocentric personal enrichment, with little concern about how this is achieved, is common. The difference to the South is that these processes are more extreme there then elsewhere.
Another aspect usually not sufficiently taken into consideration is Kelantan. (However, not in the sense that the insurgents hide there). Keleantan certainly is a special state in Malaysia, and many issues raised in Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala are in Kelantan addressed to the Malaysian state as well. Instead of being fixed to Islam (which provides good media coverage though) it might be more useful to look at traits of a multicultural “Pattani” culture, which has been destroyed in Thailand as well as Malaysia, without any new institutions arrising.
The conclusion is therefore that a reduction of violence in the South can only be achieved with far reaching social reforms and changes in Thailand all together.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
I see asbestos roofs on houses throughout Thailand and question people about the dangers – they are totally unaware or are mai bpen rai about it. Do hospitals diagnose for asbestos related deaths? It’s an insidious product that could be causing great damage to working people. Canada exports but cannot use asbestos in its own industries.
Sufficiency going forward, diversity going backward
Dawid #40 – thanks for your honesty. We don’t want any more urban myths! (What a pity, it was so nicely phrased.)
Sufficiency going forward, diversity going backward
Land of Snarls # 39
sorry, I made it up, It just came into my head, I was getting carried away with millennial fervour and it was an attempted joke on the latent anxiety about the future of the monarchy.
But I won’t do in future,
this is a very reputable blog
as i’m finding out.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Snarls, others: I have forwarded the paper to Nich here for posting; I’ll try to post it in another public place. There was an error in the version delivered at the conference which is corrected in this one, about the date of a key change to the constitution.
Snarls: according to the government’s official publications for the event, the king was at Wat Boworn over 22.10-5.11.56. As I found in researching the book, there is a wealth of inaccurate and imprecise info about the king — like specific dates and locations, harmless but still in error — in both government and non-government publications.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
I spent quite a lot of time on the Chiang Mai air issue several years ago. The big issues were agricultural burning and vehicle pollution, largely from mafia operated taxis and shuttles, which were untouchable. I don’t recall asbestos ever getting even the smallest mention in surveys of pollution sources. Finally, I haven’t seen asbestos cited as a major of worker injuries or sickness. Siam Cement is doing much motre damage to the environment by burning coal and all sorts of junk in its kilns.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Good question on SCG, Mariner. There is quite a bit at various sites on asbestos in Thailand and Asia. See http://www.hvbg.de/e/asbest/konfrep/konfrep/repbeitr/siriruttanapruk_en.pdf
http://www.thaiwebsites.com/asbestos.asp
Royal rain-making goes to Africa
For those interested in the European patent on the sandwich idea, look at: http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=EP1491088&CY=ep&LG=en
The writing is rather interesting for its lack of erudition (had trouble finding a word to use to label it).
For Australian research on cloud seeding, based on years of experience, see: http://www.cmar.csiro.au/e-print/open/cloud.htm
http://www.cmar.csiro.au/e-print/open/holper_2001c.htm
Anthropology goes to war
A short piece in The nation’s Breaking News today (26.03) states that Kh Chalerm announced that the ‘war on drugs’ will commence on 2nd April.
Final sentence: “He called for strict law enforcement without heeding the concern of human right advocates.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30069230
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Off topic, but I was wondering what you guys thought of the front page of the Bangkok Post which reported on dangerous air borne dust particles, and his majesty’s preparedness to step in to resolve the issue.
Surprising is that there is no mention of asbestos dust and the vast amounts spewed into the air daily as workers cut, grind and saw asbestos cement on almost any residential and commercial building. I have yet to see a Thai worker wearing protective gear. I have never, in Thailand, seen an asbestos containing product labelled as such. If you live in Thailand ask yourself where that dust from the new housing estate being built down the road ends up? If you dare, then look in the internet under ‘asbestos + health.’
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the largest importer of asbestos Siam Cement? Isn’t Siam Cement the largest money earner of the crown property bureau? And isn’t Thailand now one of the world’s formost asbestos importers? I’m left wondering if asbestos dangers will ever get a mention given the royal linkage -certainly not in the utterly gutless Banglok Post and the (almost) equally pathetic Nation.
Mariner
Sufficiency going forward, diversity going backward
Dawid #38: Nice quote at the end of your post. Where is it from?
(full details, if possible) Thank you before…
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
I just sent you 3 pdf files (Somchai’s and Prawit’s papers on Less Majesty Law, Handley on Privy Council).
I do have the whole disk (these three files were not on it) but I can’t sent lots of files at once. I live in uncivilized place with pre-historic (slow) internet connection.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Oops, my e-mail: [email protected]
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Mr X and/or Land of Snarls,
I would appreciate a copy of Paul Handley’s paper too, if you would be so kind. Thanks
Interesting material from Nation blogs
Samak is certainly not stupid enough to listen to, let alone act on, the ravings of Sutthichai Yoon or The Nation. There does not seem to be a single person on the editorial staff who aren’t constantly looking to twist every fact into a hysterical rant about how Thaksin, the TRT, and the PPP are on the verge of destroying Thailand.
However, it would be interesting to open this issue up a bit. How about if Samak and his allies can provide evidence of unconstitutional manipulation of the government? Would The Nation commit to publishing it and aggressive investigating the issue with an intention to expose and punish the manipulators?
I am not of a paranoid nature and so I really do think Sopon Ongara believes the crap he spews regularly, but I wouldn’t blame Samak one bit if the thinks they are all paid by the invisible hand itself for spreading what does seem to me to be an orchestrated arnesal of falsehood.
Is there anyone on this planet who does not believe that there is a fierce battle being waged between two factions of society, one depending on the strength of numbers through rural support ansd the other the strength of influence from urban support? You can argue that the invisible hands are good, bad or indifferent, but is it really possible to think that there is no manipulation going on?
Sufficiency going forward, diversity going backward
like the blog!
As ‘Lord of the Land’, since early on in his reign, I suppose the king had to come up with some sort of scientific/Buddhist/nostalgic sounding philosophy, to illustrate his all-wiseness, his legitimacy over the mandala- particulary the rural masses. It’s just part of the whole royal neo-Hindu/Buddhist mythological, cultural and ideological complex that possesses and inspires the psyche of the Thai nation.
If I’m not wrong many Thais know that the world is chaotic and capitalist, that greed and ambition are the reality. It’s the ‘kali yuga’ , the age of materialism and lack of self-restraint. Many of the older generation may still however if even subconsciously nostalagise for the good old days, back on the rice farm, a paternal all-wise and moral king, the rule of the dhamma, the millennial golden age.
I do too, even though I’m not Thai!
“When the the ninth King passes into his heavenly abode
may Maitreya Buddha come to rule the kingdom of the Thais.”
More debate on The King Never Smiles
For example, to make this and that merit for the king again and again is too much. Thai people are about to forget to make merit for its own merit. When Thai children have to stop crying for the king, that’s going too far.
More debate on The King Never Smiles
I’m agree with Teth. If you are Thai , you are alway here the Propaganda. You could be a good Thai citizen without royal bless.