……would Paul Handley be allowed to visit Thailand and freely present a paper at this academic conference? Or another writer/journalist/scholar delving into the same subject area………………an area that would seem to be at the center of many Thai trends that we are presently witnessing…………
To ChrisIPS: personally I think it very unlikely that Thailand would ban international scholars from visiting, teaching or conducting research in Thailand. Some international scholars have given them plenty of reason to do so and they have made no attempt.
“This public relations benefit for a monarchy that has been a key supporter of the 2006 coup…..”
A different view:
The country was in crisis, a coup occurred and with stability a high priority, the palace was drawn into the fray and rightly or wrongly (subjective) they decided to endorse the coup as at the time it seemed to them to be the best way to resolve the crisis.
“……and remains silent on the current attempt to subvert the electoral process”
A different view:
The palace does not wish to interfere in politics or the courts.
(Andrew: Are you suggesting they should interfere?)
The conference seems interesting and there will be lots of chance to network and exchange ideas informally……….
But it would appear that any scholar or person with serious academic and research interests in Thailand would be taking an almost impossible risk to present non-pc or heretical ideas, thoughts and/or words at the conference which might well lead to them being barred from future visits and research in Thailand, thus jeopardizing their careers and livelihoods………..
So ritual protocol, etiquette and kow-towing will in all probability be the order of the day, leading to a lot of unspoken thoughts and words left stuck inside people’s minds…….
I see where you and Wallace are coming from, concerning “cultural dilemma”. However, I believe this dilemma is not a uniquely Thai phenomenon. Let’s take a step back and see the origin of this dilemma. Thai education is no longer a group of young (male) noviences, sitting on the floor listening to an elder monk. Like other parts of the world, Thailand has adopted Anglosphere teaching philosophies and practices, and like other countries, Thailand has attempted to intergrate them into their native sociopedagogies. If you look at the history, you can see this “cultural dilemma” is, in Thailand’s case, the result of two radically Western philosophies being implemented at the same time: namely educational essentialism and the “critical thinking movement,” which ultimately stems from Dewey, but also is heavily influenced by Montesssori, Friere, and Postman.
The cause of this educational mish-mash, is that the philosophies were allowed to lay upon one another like geological strata. The first substratum would be indigenous Thai sociopedagogy, the second substratum would be the educational essentialism that was the “current” Western model when Thailand began its first educational reforms. The topsoil is now “critical thinking,” which is currently in vogue in the West.
I argue that this “dilemma” is less potent in the West, as educators are closer (by geographic proxmity) to the forces that shape currently educational philosophy. Not that these dilemma don’t exist (c.f. Hirsch, Adler, and the No Child Left Behind Act), but most educators are willing to sweep away the old to make room for the new. That is Pedagogy as “Science,” and thus, theory drives praxis and methodology is seen as experimentation.
So, in the Thai context, there is the potential for critical thinking. Can we also hope for cognitive dynamics concerning curiositas?
I think so, considering that I believe the Thai sense of classroom ownership is similar to that of Japanese sociopedagogy (Hood, 2001; Schwartz, 2002; Schwartz, 2004). If the Thais are able to find a methodology that melds the student-centered, collectivist classroom magagment that Thais seem to feel comfortable under with authentic Constructivist curricula and instruction, as the Japanese seem to have done, then I think the dynamic might be set in place. All I can say is that, as a coach for a Thai university’s debate team, I observed Thai students derive great р╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Б from researching topics of invention as a team task.
He related this to the “traditional idea of knowledge [.] exemplified by the three-tiered nagtham courses that constitute the curriculum for formal Buddhist learning.” Is this the same what you mean by “classical Theravadian views of epistemology and pedagogy”?
Yes, that and sutras like the Iddhipada-vibhanga which can be interpreted as advocating critical thinking or vimamsa (Brown, 2004).
That having been said, I don’t think moral education and critical thinking need to be mutally exclusive, especially in a Buddhist context! Teachers can help students develop morals and ethics through critically examining moral dilemmas. And of course, this is what the MoE claims to do on paper. The reality is much different, thanks to economic stratification and institutional discrimination (do you know any child in Thailand who goes to a government primary or secondary school and is lower middle class or above?)
Does anyone seriously think that the ‘bribes’ paid to voters in these provinces persuaded them to vote for one party rather than another? That’s not what it was about at all, as far as I can see. The people in those electorates didn’t need to be bought. They were on side well before the coup, and the coup strengthened their loyalty to Pol. Lt-Col. Boxhead. What the bribes did was to establish a contract to get them to the polls and actually cast their votes, rather than just sit around feeling loyal to a lost cause & hopeless & victimized.
If the gov’t had instituted strict measures to prevent ‘vote-buying’ in electorates where it was clear the ‘enemy’ would win, the measures might have worked & there would then have been no basis for declaring the results illegitimate.
In my far-from-humble opinion, PPP has Buckley’s of forming a government & ditto Samak’s chances of being PM. It gets clearer by the day.
Somsak: “Whether or not they’d choose to wear black during this time is none of the Organizer’s business. ” >> May I add that private business companies have also “encouraged” their employees to wear black, etc. Employers have just as little business regarding this issue as have organizers of an international conference. Also note the collective in the latter’s opening sentence, “Thailand is currently in mourning…” Who is this “Thailand”, and how come that the organizers can speak for it?
Is this yet another example for a prevalent elite-communitarian social outlook with the corresponding culture and politics of c0nformity?
Why boycott something that will, after the last two years’ events, be a great place to observe behavior and write a thesis on “dancing with eyes averted around the elephant in the room”?
Instead, maybe participants and observers — you too, Somsak — cold go with bright red ribbons on their (black) sleeves printed with “Fah Diawkan” on it.
I would hope, Andrew and Nicolas, that at least a public statement is made in defense of Fah Diawkan. Hell, just to stir things up bit.
In Thailand, if my boss or the header of my department says ‘request’. That completely means ‘command’ in a polite way. If I do not follow his request, I will be blamed. That’s Thai culture.
I’m afraid you should read my suggest more carefully yourself.
First of all, nowhere did I said the Organizer “commands”.
But more importantly, why would you think this “request” is not part of the massive propaganda campaign goin on right now?
Why would the Organizer feel the need to issue such “request”? To foreigners, no less. They are not Thai civil servants. Whether or not they’d choose to wear black during this time is none of the Organizer’s business. The Princess herself had NO state or official position AT ALL. She’s just the King’ s sister. This last point is very importnat. It proves the whole campaign, now almost a week old, almost 24 hours daily, is in direct violation of the FUNDAMENTAL democratic principle, namely that this country is NOT an absolute monarchy. There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for such campaign – the “request” in question included – for an unofficial person. (Unless of course it’s an abosolute monarchy. Then the Royal Family can designate anybody they’d like the whole contry to morn to dead.) Thus there’s absolutely no justification for anyone not bounded by the Thai civil servant codes to comply to such campain-‘reguest’.
Hahaha. Well it’s a nice idea. But if the non-Thai conference participants have already signed up and paid to attend a conference organized to honour a king who has given his full support to the overthrow of a democratically-elected government and to the dictatorial regime it installed I think it is probably unlikely that these same participants are going to make a fuss of this latest violation of democratic principles. After all, it’s simply a matter of switching one’s attire from yellow or pink to black.
Colonel, don’t you think that there ought to have been measures to safeguard against vote buying before the election so as not to be in the situation where legitimate votes for the PPP are being disregarded? Why weren’t these measures in place? It must have been Thaksin and his filthy HSBC money bags!!!!!!!!
Most Thai people do not even know their own history and are not allowed to talk openly about their own goverment’s head of state. There are only a few countries in the world where people are not allowed, by law, to talk about their heads of states in anything less than glowing terms. All of them are considered despotic regimes.
Some body has just posted the following email on FawDiewKan webboard.
Dear Participants
Thailand is currently in mourning for Her Royal Highness Princess Galayani Vadhana (the King’s elder sister) who passed away on Wednesday 2nd January 2008. The princess at one time was a Thammasat University permanent faculty member. At the moment, the government has officially called for 15 days of mourning and has asked the public to wear black during this period.
In this regard, we would like to ask for your understanding. We respectfully request that all participants wear black or dark clothing for the duration of our conference.
Thank you for your kind co-operation.
Thai Conference Organizer
The Thai Khadi Research Institute,
Thammasat University
e-mail: [email protected]
Note: In case that you are not attending the 10th International Conference on Thai Studies to be held on January 9-11, 2008 in Bangkok, we would like to apologize and please ignore this e-mail.
I’m not going to the Conference and didn’t received the email. But may I suggest the following to all non-Thai academics, as well as all Thai who are not in bureaucracy and state enterprises and are not bounded by their codes:
Write back to the Conference Organizer telling them that this email is an insult to your intelligence, that you’re not obliged to act as requested and, most importantly, the current massive propaganda campaign in the name of “morning for the Princess” is in violation of democratic principles that you will not comply.
I think Handley’s book is spot on the money in several places. Let’s face it, there are a lot of Thai apologists out there. If you would believe that many people are saying the royal family is loved by all Thais,but the truth on the ground is quite different. I compare the love they are expected to express much akin to the public love expressed to the “Englightened and Most Loved” leader of North Korea. People do it because the law requires them to and because they have been indoctrinated in it.
If it seems farfecthed, realized Bhumiphol has been in power longer than the father/son duo in North Korea.
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Time for academic frankness
……would Paul Handley be allowed to visit Thailand and freely present a paper at this academic conference? Or another writer/journalist/scholar delving into the same subject area………………an area that would seem to be at the center of many Thai trends that we are presently witnessing…………
Time for academic frankness
To ChrisIPS: personally I think it very unlikely that Thailand would ban international scholars from visiting, teaching or conducting research in Thailand. Some international scholars have given them plenty of reason to do so and they have made no attempt.
Time for academic frankness
“This public relations benefit for a monarchy that has been a key supporter of the 2006 coup…..”
A different view:
The country was in crisis, a coup occurred and with stability a high priority, the palace was drawn into the fray and rightly or wrongly (subjective) they decided to endorse the coup as at the time it seemed to them to be the best way to resolve the crisis.
“……and remains silent on the current attempt to subvert the electoral process”
A different view:
The palace does not wish to interfere in politics or the courts.
(Andrew: Are you suggesting they should interfere?)
Time for academic frankness
The conference seems interesting and there will be lots of chance to network and exchange ideas informally……….
But it would appear that any scholar or person with serious academic and research interests in Thailand would be taking an almost impossible risk to present non-pc or heretical ideas, thoughts and/or words at the conference which might well lead to them being barred from future visits and research in Thailand, thus jeopardizing their careers and livelihoods………..
So ritual protocol, etiquette and kow-towing will in all probability be the order of the day, leading to a lot of unspoken thoughts and words left stuck inside people’s minds…….
Using wisdom to see reality
re: Srithanonchai
I see where you and Wallace are coming from, concerning “cultural dilemma”. However, I believe this dilemma is not a uniquely Thai phenomenon. Let’s take a step back and see the origin of this dilemma. Thai education is no longer a group of young (male) noviences, sitting on the floor listening to an elder monk. Like other parts of the world, Thailand has adopted Anglosphere teaching philosophies and practices, and like other countries, Thailand has attempted to intergrate them into their native sociopedagogies. If you look at the history, you can see this “cultural dilemma” is, in Thailand’s case, the result of two radically Western philosophies being implemented at the same time: namely educational essentialism and the “critical thinking movement,” which ultimately stems from Dewey, but also is heavily influenced by Montesssori, Friere, and Postman.
The cause of this educational mish-mash, is that the philosophies were allowed to lay upon one another like geological strata. The first substratum would be indigenous Thai sociopedagogy, the second substratum would be the educational essentialism that was the “current” Western model when Thailand began its first educational reforms. The topsoil is now “critical thinking,” which is currently in vogue in the West.
I argue that this “dilemma” is less potent in the West, as educators are closer (by geographic proxmity) to the forces that shape currently educational philosophy. Not that these dilemma don’t exist (c.f. Hirsch, Adler, and the No Child Left Behind Act), but most educators are willing to sweep away the old to make room for the new. That is Pedagogy as “Science,” and thus, theory drives praxis and methodology is seen as experimentation.
I think so, considering that I believe the Thai sense of classroom ownership is similar to that of Japanese sociopedagogy (Hood, 2001; Schwartz, 2002; Schwartz, 2004). If the Thais are able to find a methodology that melds the student-centered, collectivist classroom magagment that Thais seem to feel comfortable under with authentic Constructivist curricula and instruction, as the Japanese seem to have done, then I think the dynamic might be set in place. All I can say is that, as a coach for a Thai university’s debate team, I observed Thai students derive great р╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Б from researching topics of invention as a team task.
Yes, that and sutras like the Iddhipada-vibhanga which can be interpreted as advocating critical thinking or vimamsa (Brown, 2004).
That having been said, I don’t think moral education and critical thinking need to be mutally exclusive, especially in a Buddhist context! Teachers can help students develop morals and ethics through critically examining moral dilemmas. And of course, this is what the MoE claims to do on paper. The reality is much different, thanks to economic stratification and institutional discrimination (do you know any child in Thailand who goes to a government primary or secondary school and is lower middle class or above?)
Thailand’s coup by stealth
Does anyone seriously think that the ‘bribes’ paid to voters in these provinces persuaded them to vote for one party rather than another? That’s not what it was about at all, as far as I can see. The people in those electorates didn’t need to be bought. They were on side well before the coup, and the coup strengthened their loyalty to Pol. Lt-Col. Boxhead. What the bribes did was to establish a contract to get them to the polls and actually cast their votes, rather than just sit around feeling loyal to a lost cause & hopeless & victimized.
If the gov’t had instituted strict measures to prevent ‘vote-buying’ in electorates where it was clear the ‘enemy’ would win, the measures might have worked & there would then have been no basis for declaring the results illegitimate.
In my far-from-humble opinion, PPP has Buckley’s of forming a government & ditto Samak’s chances of being PM. It gets clearer by the day.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Hi, previous should read”
“Seriously, even Somsak should go, and all those of like-minded should wear pink armbands on their black sleeves with “Fah Diawkan” written on it.”
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Somsak: “Whether or not they’d choose to wear black during this time is none of the Organizer’s business. ” >> May I add that private business companies have also “encouraged” their employees to wear black, etc. Employers have just as little business regarding this issue as have organizers of an international conference. Also note the collective in the latter’s opening sentence, “Thailand is currently in mourning…” Who is this “Thailand”, and how come that the organizers can speak for it?
Is this yet another example for a prevalent elite-communitarian social outlook with the corresponding culture and politics of c0nformity?
Time for academic frankness
Why boycott something that will, after the last two years’ events, be a great place to observe behavior and write a thesis on “dancing with eyes averted around the elephant in the room”?
Instead, maybe participants and observers — you too, Somsak — cold go with bright red ribbons on their (black) sleeves printed with “Fah Diawkan” on it.
I would hope, Andrew and Nicolas, that at least a public statement is made in defense of Fah Diawkan. Hell, just to stir things up bit.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
In Thailand, if my boss or the header of my department says ‘request’. That completely means ‘command’ in a polite way. If I do not follow his request, I will be blamed. That’s Thai culture.
have a good day.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Dear K. D.S.
I’m afraid you should read my suggest more carefully yourself.
First of all, nowhere did I said the Organizer “commands”.
But more importantly, why would you think this “request” is not part of the massive propaganda campaign goin on right now?
Why would the Organizer feel the need to issue such “request”? To foreigners, no less. They are not Thai civil servants. Whether or not they’d choose to wear black during this time is none of the Organizer’s business. The Princess herself had NO state or official position AT ALL. She’s just the King’ s sister. This last point is very importnat. It proves the whole campaign, now almost a week old, almost 24 hours daily, is in direct violation of the FUNDAMENTAL democratic principle, namely that this country is NOT an absolute monarchy. There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for such campaign – the “request” in question included – for an unofficial person. (Unless of course it’s an abosolute monarchy. Then the Royal Family can designate anybody they’d like the whole contry to morn to dead.) Thus there’s absolutely no justification for anyone not bounded by the Thai civil servant codes to comply to such campain-‘reguest’.
“Coup by stealth” denied
Fall: Because when they planned the election, they thought PPP would lose.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
“It is not a command.” >> You might be right. But it is not a command merely in a technical sense.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Dear K. Somsak,
In this post you are going too far:
read this line again:
“We respectfully request that all participants wear black or dark clothing for the duration of our conference.”
It is not a command.
While there is what you call, a massive propoganda campaign, this particular example of a ‘request’ is NOT a good example.
Try pointing out the black themes in all the news casters and endless talk about her on public tv and radio, then you would have a good point.
good day.
Royal funerary rites
Srithanonchai – glad we have something with which I can totally agree.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Hahaha. Well it’s a nice idea. But if the non-Thai conference participants have already signed up and paid to attend a conference organized to honour a king who has given his full support to the overthrow of a democratically-elected government and to the dictatorial regime it installed I think it is probably unlikely that these same participants are going to make a fuss of this latest violation of democratic principles. After all, it’s simply a matter of switching one’s attire from yellow or pink to black.
Thailand’s coup by stealth
Colonel, don’t you think that there ought to have been measures to safeguard against vote buying before the election so as not to be in the situation where legitimate votes for the PPP are being disregarded? Why weren’t these measures in place? It must have been Thaksin and his filthy HSBC money bags!!!!!!!!
“Coup by stealth” denied
Most Thai people do not even know their own history and are not allowed to talk openly about their own goverment’s head of state. There are only a few countries in the world where people are not allowed, by law, to talk about their heads of states in anything less than glowing terms. All of them are considered despotic regimes.
More on the 2008 Thai Studies conference
Some body has just posted the following email on FawDiewKan webboard.
Dear Participants
Thailand is currently in mourning for Her Royal Highness Princess Galayani Vadhana (the King’s elder sister) who passed away on Wednesday 2nd January 2008. The princess at one time was a Thammasat University permanent faculty member. At the moment, the government has officially called for 15 days of mourning and has asked the public to wear black during this period.
In this regard, we would like to ask for your understanding. We respectfully request that all participants wear black or dark clothing for the duration of our conference.
Thank you for your kind co-operation.
Thai Conference Organizer
The Thai Khadi Research Institute,
Thammasat University
e-mail: [email protected]
Note: In case that you are not attending the 10th International Conference on Thai Studies to be held on January 9-11, 2008 in Bangkok, we would like to apologize and please ignore this e-mail.
I’m not going to the Conference and didn’t received the email. But may I suggest the following to all non-Thai academics, as well as all Thai who are not in bureaucracy and state enterprises and are not bounded by their codes:
Write back to the Conference Organizer telling them that this email is an insult to your intelligence, that you’re not obliged to act as requested and, most importantly, the current massive propaganda campaign in the name of “morning for the Princess” is in violation of democratic principles that you will not comply.
Handley responds to Evans
I think Handley’s book is spot on the money in several places. Let’s face it, there are a lot of Thai apologists out there. If you would believe that many people are saying the royal family is loved by all Thais,but the truth on the ground is quite different. I compare the love they are expected to express much akin to the public love expressed to the “Englightened and Most Loved” leader of North Korea. People do it because the law requires them to and because they have been indoctrinated in it.
If it seems farfecthed, realized Bhumiphol has been in power longer than the father/son duo in North Korea.