Maybe we’ll never know. It’s interesting to note, however, that everybody seems to think they know how the MICT functions. What are people basing these theories on?
Ad Carabao (Chang Beer) and Chamlong Sri Muang (no beer), right now, out in front of SET, nine rounds, catch as catch can, no gloves, I want to resolve all tis revolutionary stuff right now.
Thanks. Your paper is a good resource for anyone trying to tie the new law down to the very untransparent reality on the ground, for example the reality in Chiang Rai province both among Thai communities and hill tribe villages.
How does this law affect hill tribes? They don’t seem to be mentioned at all. Does anyone know where there is a Thai language version of the bill online?
As an occasional follower of events, it sounds like things are getting pretty complex!
What are the status of current forest conservation laws with the Community Forest Bill’s passage?
How will the roles of the Forest Department and various communities be negotiated?
How does this relate to the controversial SorPorKor4-01 land reform which is designed to give land tenureship to farmers on ‘deteriorated’ forests lands?
This looks like a very big tangle which I hope the next government seriously addresses (potential deja vu for the Democrats!?)
Don’t be too hard on Aet. He’s a pretty damn good singer-songwriter as far as I’m concerned.
My only comment is de gustibus non disputandum est.
As for the rest of your comment, I feel the distinction you draw is quickly becoming a false one. In a dictatorship, those that are successful in the local market, by definition, serve the state. Indeed, it is worthing noting that the office of Reichminister f├╝r Volksaufkl├дrung und Propaganda Ladda Tangsupachai has been doing its best to draw all forms of artistic expression into the greater hegemonic web of the state through being the sole arbiter of what is authentically “Thai” and what is entartete Kunst/Kultur. That which does not serve the interest of the state is not allowed to florish in the marketplace (complete with all its messy farang concepts, like “invisible hands” and “property rights derived from reason; not from a р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╣Бр╕Ьр╣Ир╕Щр╕Фр╕┤р╕Щ”).
However, Aet is allowed his own political views, and the most municifent Ladda has allowed him the opportunity to express them for the time being.
Very interesting comments Teth – beginning with the introduction of another scary word “utilitarian”!!!
Ah, another socio-cultural ‘engineer’ I assume! For me it is unfortunate that you see and is apparently extremely frustrated by only the ‘dark side’ of Thai culture. From your response, you are obviously ashamed of your own culture, your own skin and centuries of Tai-Siamese-Thai history. On the other hand, you have very high ambitions, Thailand without the monarchy (which should have been abolished since the Ayutthaya period?!), would have already become a “leading nation” on par with France or America. By your “modern standards”, Thailand seemed to have achieved nothing in its long history!
That is fine by me – I have close Thai friends and respected colleagues who also thinks that way (one going as far as saying Thailand would have done better if it has been colonized!). It has made for many lively and enjoyable conversations through the years – and always confirmed to me that, whatever form of government – democratic, pseudo-democratic, dictatorship the Thai mind is always free (and very critical). Things not said loudly in public is discussed widely in private… “Choices”? Really, who has? We didn’t have much choice to begin with, you and I are born Thai? Some others are born Pakistani, American, Japanese… The majority of Australians want to be a republic but is still not… And politically, how different is John Howard from Kevin Rudd? How different is the Republican from the Democrats? How different is McDonalds from KFC? When the Greens have a decent chance to win an election, then we have real ‘choice’…
But anyway, that’s besides the point. I probably dwell a very different ‘Thai’ world from you Teth. I get frustrated with the dark sides but I also do enjoy the positive sides immensely (over-indulgence will be more accurate). When I was new in Australia, many of my foriegn colleagues (Aussie and fellow SEAsians) observed that Thais are “very proud people” – something I did not understood then, as I always assumed everyone is proud of their cultures/countries. In fact, I have so many bad things to say literally coming off the 1997 Asian economic crisis. But through the years, being outside of the Thai fish tank and looking in and having numerous opportunities to observe Thai behaviour in a foriegn context. Regardless of Penek’s stereotype of Thais in the hilarious film “6ixty9” that “Thai men are drug-dealers and Thai women are prostitutes”, yes I discern that element of proudness (that few apart from the Thais themselves understand) often associated with HMK, Buddhism, FOOD, “never colonized”, Thai language, Muay Thai, Luk thung, TV advertisments, PMThaksin (not me here)… and a hosts of generic and specific things. Another statement which caught me is an observation by a Thai designer who has worked abroad that “Thais are very talented, but not ambitious” – which had a strange ring of truth for me. I’ve seen many very talented Thais come through the educational system here with the majority choosing to return home (unlike the less talented like myself. I suspect you have that ‘choice’ too Teth, if you despise the country and its culture so much). Ofcourse, while it hasn’t suffered too much ‘brain drain’, the Thai system seem to not fully utilize those talents (on the other hand, they might just want to enjoy life, time with friends/family outside of the utilitarian. I have heard the Thais being compared with the Italians and Spanish too in their attitude to life).
Am I attributing the “national charm” to HMK? In this NM context, where many kept attributing all Thailand’s ills to HMK, it is a fair call. Obviously both reductivist, fundamentalist thinking are false. The reality must be somewhere in the middle – and the extremely complex entity that is ‘Thailand’ (that no one can really fully comprehend), all institutions, all the people in it, past and present, contributed to and are responsible for its charms and its ills (credit to the many foriegners who had a critical hand too – from the Portuguese sailors who introduced chilli to Thailand – to the Mons, Khmers, Chinese, Persians, Malays, Vietnamese, Burmese…etc…etc…, who bought their wonderful cultures to this charming mix. Why are they here – and, more often than not, free to retain their cultural practices and religious believes (something relatively quite recent in the Western world)? Why did they assimilate? Add “stability” to the ingredient provided by the Siamese-Thai kings and we have the package we have today…
“Multi-culturalism”, “Fusion food”, “Tolerance for other races/religion” – relatively ‘new’ concepts in the West, openly and proudly practiced for centuries in Siam (pardon my partisanship again – here, I maintain that everyone is proud, and rightly so, of their cultures/beliefs as long as it does not promote hate/prejudice). To end this rambling, Teth, I respect and accept your views. We are all just “conditioned” differently (and do keep this going!).
You are being naive. Aed has lent the force of his popularity to politcs regularly and consciously, early on helping Big Jiew Chavalit Yongchaiyut, not a sign that justice, honesty and anti-corruption are important to Aed.
Or has their fate improved on a general statistical level because Thai businesses and individuals now use more child labor from Thailand’s neighboring states than was the case a generation ago? Merely displacing the nationality of child labor in Thailand, but not the enduring reality of it? I would be interested to know if anyone has comparative, historical statistics on child labor broken down by nationality.
Like I said, our definitions of pragmatic are different. Perhaps utilitarian would be a better word to describe my view of the situation, that is, monarchy has more harm than good for this country, and, its abolishment will produce more good than harm. Therefore, my conclusion is that we abolish it. It will be very difficult, but I still see the outcome as worth the attempt. Obviously, you disagree.
In my line of thinking, the most likely scenario is that Thailand will mature democratically and the monarchy will also become increasingly ceremonial, like Japanese and European royalties.
Blasphemy! Isn’t HMK already ceremonial and non-political?!?!??
The way I see it, the monarchic cult machine will continue running for a long time whether in history books or in the media. And how will Thailand mature democratically when so far 75 years after the democratic revolution, there has been yet another coup d’etat? Maybe because there’s been people who have tried to hamper that development?
Trust me, there will be no stopping the royal propaganda machine. See how they’re trying to give the mantle to the heir even now.
HMK and Siamese-Thai monarchs of the past as very positive influences in their respective societies
Is that so? So harking back to the Kings of Ayutthaya, who lived in splendor, ruthlessly killed each other, didn’t bother giving a rat’s ass about the country, employed slaves, enforced corvee labor, gave titles and positions away to family members (aka cronyism), etc etc etc, you think Thai monarchs are “very positive influences”? What makes you think the Kings of Chakri are any different? Are they not usurpers, monopolists, slavers, wealthy patricians who cared little about the people, and ruthless rulers, except maybe one or two of them? But I trust you will excuse them by telling me not to judge them by modern standards, which is similar to what you are doing.
many Thais will agree with me that the price was more than worth it …’Thailand is making positive progress at its preferred rate and in its own way’…Yes, it is full of imperfections – but generally they are not too harmful, even charming
The problem is, with monarchy, you didn’t have the choice, did you?
There is no such thing as Thailand’s preferred rate of positive progress. Where did you dream that from? That suddenly all Thai citizens decided to cast a ballot detailing what percentage economic/social/political growth they wanted? Sorry, but there is no such thing. Simply put, there are people taking Thailand forwards and those dragging us back. To explain those dragging us back as “Thailand’s preferred rate” is absolute nonsense, its as if you excuse corrupt politicians as agents of Thailand’s “preferred rate”, after all, those politicians can be charming, can’t they? Or did you mean our military leaders who now dictate this “preferred rate”. How Orwellian that sounds.
And why anybody would want positive progress at a slow rate is beyond me. Maybe they are listening too much to HMK, who said Thailand didn’t need to develop much because if we became a leading nation, the only way to go from there is down. (As opposed to staying down all our lives). And, I do not understand how and why you are attributing national charm to HMK as in this quote:
Immigrants from the region over the past century+ and tourists from around the world seem to think so too… (but many commentators here will refuse to credit HMK and the monarchy with any of the positives – only everything they see and perceive as negative and wrong!)
It’s more like Bhumibol and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat… I will be filing a lawsuit, mark my words! There is no way Kelly Newton Wordsnotworthit would get even a backing vocals spot with that guff. Yuck. Next thing cats will be auspicious. Oh! The travesty. People just copy me. Where are my cream puffs?
hrmmm
“They are fewer, as a proportion of the total population, better educated, and far less likely to be working as child labourers or child prostitutes than at any other time…”
maybe that is why there is so much worry about labor in Thailand. Soon enough, the low-child-rearing Thai’s will be a minority…
Don’t be too hard on Aet. He’s a pretty damn good singer-songwriter as far as I’m concerned. We shouldn’t expect him to have highly developed political ideas as well, especially when we have university presidents and political science deans willingly serving a royalist dictatorship.
Instead of accusing Aet of opportunism we should be condemning in the strongest possible terms the “higher caste” of academics, both Thai and Western, who DO have the job of studying and understanding Thai society and politics, and who for the most part lined up squarely against the democratically-elected Thai Rak Thai government last year and who have continued to be so “nom naem” towards the royalist regime installed after September 19.
Yet they present themselves to us as people of “silatham”, leaders of the “peoples movement”, fighting for “freedom”, or else act with the arrogance of academic “detachment”, treating both sides even-handledly in the interests of “neutrality”.
Which leading academic has come out with a straightforward denunciation of the king’s role in the coup and support for the dictatorship?
Aet serves a market, the academics serve the state, and many of them, a dictatorship as well.
Compared to these academics Aet is 100 times more “honest”.
Most Thai people are poor that call” roots of grass” .They have no adequate food or money.In the other hand,the royal family and high class people are very rich.The gap is very wide in thailand.
Sufficiency economics cannot support the demand of poors.It only is philosophy that teach the people save , help themself and don’t hope anything from the government ( but you must pay the tax).
You must proud of this philosophy.Because it is from the genius king idea. You cannot comment in Thailand .You must accept and be happy with it.
The song was on TV a while back. I likewise thought it was Carabao, but wasn’t sure whether he would want to dilute his “brand image” even more. It wasn’t on the party website back then.
Teth, the Khmer Rouge would argued that they were ‘pragmatic’ – and so would Hitler in imposing his vision for (‘Aryan’) German/European/World society. I think you are talking ‘pragmatism’ framed by ideology here than anything else – you want Thailand to become a republic ASAP (yet acknowledging it is not possible?). No one can predict the future and I would say it may be possible. It is for future generations to decide and the only scenario that this is possible is for the monarchy to be highly unpopular which is again only possible through blatant misbehaviour (a modern example of Nepal – how just one generation may lead to the abolishment of the monarchy).
In my line of thinking, the most likely scenario is that Thailand will mature democratically and the monarchy will also become increasingly ceremonial, like Japanese and European royalties.
I would also argue that at a historical-cultural level, the Siamese-Thai monarchy has been a much more integral to Thai society. Moreover, Thais have the notion of “boonkhun”, “boonbaramee” that is very deep rooted and kings of the past still command deep emotional affection (even cultic following) to today (modern Japan seems to display some of these traits too). You can argue ‘re-education’ and negative media would do the job – but it will require the abolishing or deep rooted cultural practices. It requires every Jatukam worshippers and all those who believe the sacredness of the amulets they wear – whether of the Buddha, Hindu Gods, King Chulalongkorn…etc. to renege their their beliefs. It is ideological deep and it requires conversion (by persuasion and by force?).
On a personal level, we differ significantly as I see (supplied with much the same evidences as you) HMK and Siamese-Thai monarchs of the past as very positive influences in their respective societies. As we can’t predict the future, I don’t know what the future holds – but judging from the past to the present, that is my assessment. This was also borne out of considering ‘alternative histories’. What would Thailand be like without the monarchy? Being practical, there’s two possible times (and they maybe more) in the past two centuries when that could have occured – 1893, a total French takeover of the capital and eventual settlement with the British to divide Siam along the ChaoPhraya River into British west and French east. The second in 1932, if the radical elements in the People’s Party held sway and a bloody Siamese civil war breaks out (with a possibility of foriegn intervention lurking in the background?). In those scenarios which democratic/development path would Siam have taken amongst ‘comparable’ neighbours – Malaysia/Singapore? Myanmar/Laos/Cambodia? Vietnam? Indonesia? Will Thailand do better or worse? Without the monarchy, which institution(s) will most likely take over (an easier question, where would FMPibul, GenSarit etal with ‘absolute’ power take the country)?
Here, I also strongly agree with Jonfernquest’s apt assessment – that the monarchy is Thailand’s price for “stability”. Other commentators may beg to differ, but many Thais will agree with me that the price was more than worth it – and this is, arguably, a cultural preference. I will admit to once seriously entertaining ideas such as ‘why can’t we be more like the Europeans’? It is only after living outside of Thailand continuously for 10 years that the thought ‘I am not European (which is not as ‘perfect’ as seen from inside Thailand anyway)’ and ‘Thailand is making positive progress at its preferred rate and in its own way’ occured and then everything made perfect sense… Yes, it is full of imperfections – but generally they are not too harmful, even charming (pardon my partisanship!). Immigrants from the region over the past century+ and tourists from around the world seem to think so too… (but many commentators here will refuse to credit HMK and the monarchy with any of the positives – only everything they see and perceive as negative and wrong!)
I thought EC prohibits campaign songs, maybe I haven’t undersood theses new rules issued? Or maybe the EC canceled or bent some of these rules for fear of the controversy raised by most of the parties against these rules?
Thank for answering, I’m a little bit in the fog by now 🙂
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Lost Boy under fire
Maybe we’ll never know. It’s interesting to note, however, that everybody seems to think they know how the MICT functions. What are people basing these theories on?
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Ad Carabao (Chang Beer) and Chamlong Sri Muang (no beer), right now, out in front of SET, nine rounds, catch as catch can, no gloves, I want to resolve all tis revolutionary stuff right now.
Will the Community Forest Act be good for farmers?
Thanks. Your paper is a good resource for anyone trying to tie the new law down to the very untransparent reality on the ground, for example the reality in Chiang Rai province both among Thai communities and hill tribe villages.
How does this law affect hill tribes? They don’t seem to be mentioned at all. Does anyone know where there is a Thai language version of the bill online?
Will the Community Forest Act be good for farmers?
As an occasional follower of events, it sounds like things are getting pretty complex!
What are the status of current forest conservation laws with the Community Forest Bill’s passage?
How will the roles of the Forest Department and various communities be negotiated?
How does this relate to the controversial SorPorKor4-01 land reform which is designed to give land tenureship to farmers on ‘deteriorated’ forests lands?
This looks like a very big tangle which I hope the next government seriously addresses (potential deja vu for the Democrats!?)
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Re: Republican>
Don’t be too hard on Aet. He’s a pretty damn good singer-songwriter as far as I’m concerned.
My only comment is de gustibus non disputandum est.
As for the rest of your comment, I feel the distinction you draw is quickly becoming a false one. In a dictatorship, those that are successful in the local market, by definition, serve the state. Indeed, it is worthing noting that the office of Reichminister f├╝r Volksaufkl├дrung und Propaganda Ladda Tangsupachai has been doing its best to draw all forms of artistic expression into the greater hegemonic web of the state through being the sole arbiter of what is authentically “Thai” and what is entartete Kunst/Kultur. That which does not serve the interest of the state is not allowed to florish in the marketplace (complete with all its messy farang concepts, like “invisible hands” and “property rights derived from reason; not from a р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╣Бр╕Ьр╣Ир╕Щр╕Фр╕┤р╕Щ”).
However, Aet is allowed his own political views, and the most municifent Ladda has allowed him the opportunity to express them for the time being.
The King Never Smiles?
Very interesting comments Teth – beginning with the introduction of another scary word “utilitarian”!!!
Ah, another socio-cultural ‘engineer’ I assume! For me it is unfortunate that you see and is apparently extremely frustrated by only the ‘dark side’ of Thai culture. From your response, you are obviously ashamed of your own culture, your own skin and centuries of Tai-Siamese-Thai history. On the other hand, you have very high ambitions, Thailand without the monarchy (which should have been abolished since the Ayutthaya period?!), would have already become a “leading nation” on par with France or America. By your “modern standards”, Thailand seemed to have achieved nothing in its long history!
That is fine by me – I have close Thai friends and respected colleagues who also thinks that way (one going as far as saying Thailand would have done better if it has been colonized!). It has made for many lively and enjoyable conversations through the years – and always confirmed to me that, whatever form of government – democratic, pseudo-democratic, dictatorship the Thai mind is always free (and very critical). Things not said loudly in public is discussed widely in private… “Choices”? Really, who has? We didn’t have much choice to begin with, you and I are born Thai? Some others are born Pakistani, American, Japanese… The majority of Australians want to be a republic but is still not… And politically, how different is John Howard from Kevin Rudd? How different is the Republican from the Democrats? How different is McDonalds from KFC? When the Greens have a decent chance to win an election, then we have real ‘choice’…
But anyway, that’s besides the point. I probably dwell a very different ‘Thai’ world from you Teth. I get frustrated with the dark sides but I also do enjoy the positive sides immensely (over-indulgence will be more accurate). When I was new in Australia, many of my foriegn colleagues (Aussie and fellow SEAsians) observed that Thais are “very proud people” – something I did not understood then, as I always assumed everyone is proud of their cultures/countries. In fact, I have so many bad things to say literally coming off the 1997 Asian economic crisis. But through the years, being outside of the Thai fish tank and looking in and having numerous opportunities to observe Thai behaviour in a foriegn context. Regardless of Penek’s stereotype of Thais in the hilarious film “6ixty9” that “Thai men are drug-dealers and Thai women are prostitutes”, yes I discern that element of proudness (that few apart from the Thais themselves understand) often associated with HMK, Buddhism, FOOD, “never colonized”, Thai language, Muay Thai, Luk thung, TV advertisments, PMThaksin (not me here)… and a hosts of generic and specific things. Another statement which caught me is an observation by a Thai designer who has worked abroad that “Thais are very talented, but not ambitious” – which had a strange ring of truth for me. I’ve seen many very talented Thais come through the educational system here with the majority choosing to return home (unlike the less talented like myself. I suspect you have that ‘choice’ too Teth, if you despise the country and its culture so much). Ofcourse, while it hasn’t suffered too much ‘brain drain’, the Thai system seem to not fully utilize those talents (on the other hand, they might just want to enjoy life, time with friends/family outside of the utilitarian. I have heard the Thais being compared with the Italians and Spanish too in their attitude to life).
Am I attributing the “national charm” to HMK? In this NM context, where many kept attributing all Thailand’s ills to HMK, it is a fair call. Obviously both reductivist, fundamentalist thinking are false. The reality must be somewhere in the middle – and the extremely complex entity that is ‘Thailand’ (that no one can really fully comprehend), all institutions, all the people in it, past and present, contributed to and are responsible for its charms and its ills (credit to the many foriegners who had a critical hand too – from the Portuguese sailors who introduced chilli to Thailand – to the Mons, Khmers, Chinese, Persians, Malays, Vietnamese, Burmese…etc…etc…, who bought their wonderful cultures to this charming mix. Why are they here – and, more often than not, free to retain their cultural practices and religious believes (something relatively quite recent in the Western world)? Why did they assimilate? Add “stability” to the ingredient provided by the Siamese-Thai kings and we have the package we have today…
“Multi-culturalism”, “Fusion food”, “Tolerance for other races/religion” – relatively ‘new’ concepts in the West, openly and proudly practiced for centuries in Siam (pardon my partisanship again – here, I maintain that everyone is proud, and rightly so, of their cultures/beliefs as long as it does not promote hate/prejudice). To end this rambling, Teth, I respect and accept your views. We are all just “conditioned” differently (and do keep this going!).
Community forestry – still hanging in there?
[…] I stated on New Mandala in September last year, I am very skeptical about the alleged benefits of the […]
The nouveau riche?
[email protected]
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Republican,
You are being naive. Aed has lent the force of his popularity to politcs regularly and consciously, early on helping Big Jiew Chavalit Yongchaiyut, not a sign that justice, honesty and anti-corruption are important to Aed.
The nouveau riche?
Or has their fate improved on a general statistical level because Thai businesses and individuals now use more child labor from Thailand’s neighboring states than was the case a generation ago? Merely displacing the nationality of child labor in Thailand, but not the enduring reality of it? I would be interested to know if anyone has comparative, historical statistics on child labor broken down by nationality.
The King Never Smiles?
Like I said, our definitions of pragmatic are different. Perhaps utilitarian would be a better word to describe my view of the situation, that is, monarchy has more harm than good for this country, and, its abolishment will produce more good than harm. Therefore, my conclusion is that we abolish it. It will be very difficult, but I still see the outcome as worth the attempt. Obviously, you disagree.
Blasphemy! Isn’t HMK already ceremonial and non-political?!?!??
The way I see it, the monarchic cult machine will continue running for a long time whether in history books or in the media. And how will Thailand mature democratically when so far 75 years after the democratic revolution, there has been yet another coup d’etat? Maybe because there’s been people who have tried to hamper that development?
Trust me, there will be no stopping the royal propaganda machine. See how they’re trying to give the mantle to the heir even now.
Is that so? So harking back to the Kings of Ayutthaya, who lived in splendor, ruthlessly killed each other, didn’t bother giving a rat’s ass about the country, employed slaves, enforced corvee labor, gave titles and positions away to family members (aka cronyism), etc etc etc, you think Thai monarchs are “very positive influences”? What makes you think the Kings of Chakri are any different? Are they not usurpers, monopolists, slavers, wealthy patricians who cared little about the people, and ruthless rulers, except maybe one or two of them? But I trust you will excuse them by telling me not to judge them by modern standards, which is similar to what you are doing.
The problem is, with monarchy, you didn’t have the choice, did you?
There is no such thing as Thailand’s preferred rate of positive progress. Where did you dream that from? That suddenly all Thai citizens decided to cast a ballot detailing what percentage economic/social/political growth they wanted? Sorry, but there is no such thing. Simply put, there are people taking Thailand forwards and those dragging us back. To explain those dragging us back as “Thailand’s preferred rate” is absolute nonsense, its as if you excuse corrupt politicians as agents of Thailand’s “preferred rate”, after all, those politicians can be charming, can’t they? Or did you mean our military leaders who now dictate this “preferred rate”. How Orwellian that sounds.
And why anybody would want positive progress at a slow rate is beyond me. Maybe they are listening too much to HMK, who said Thailand didn’t need to develop much because if we became a leading nation, the only way to go from there is down. (As opposed to staying down all our lives). And, I do not understand how and why you are attributing national charm to HMK as in this quote:
“A husband, a father and a king…”
It’s more like Bhumibol and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat… I will be filing a lawsuit, mark my words! There is no way Kelly Newton Wordsnotworthit would get even a backing vocals spot with that guff. Yuck. Next thing cats will be auspicious. Oh! The travesty. People just copy me. Where are my cream puffs?
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Placebo revolutionary delusions are good distractions so that the real thing ain’t happening. Chaiyo.
The nouveau riche?
hrmmm
“They are fewer, as a proportion of the total population, better educated, and far less likely to be working as child labourers or child prostitutes than at any other time…”
maybe that is why there is so much worry about labor in Thailand. Soon enough, the low-child-rearing Thai’s will be a minority…
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Don’t be too hard on Aet. He’s a pretty damn good singer-songwriter as far as I’m concerned. We shouldn’t expect him to have highly developed political ideas as well, especially when we have university presidents and political science deans willingly serving a royalist dictatorship.
Instead of accusing Aet of opportunism we should be condemning in the strongest possible terms the “higher caste” of academics, both Thai and Western, who DO have the job of studying and understanding Thai society and politics, and who for the most part lined up squarely against the democratically-elected Thai Rak Thai government last year and who have continued to be so “nom naem” towards the royalist regime installed after September 19.
Yet they present themselves to us as people of “silatham”, leaders of the “peoples movement”, fighting for “freedom”, or else act with the arrogance of academic “detachment”, treating both sides even-handledly in the interests of “neutrality”.
Which leading academic has come out with a straightforward denunciation of the king’s role in the coup and support for the dictatorship?
Aet serves a market, the academics serve the state, and many of them, a dictatorship as well.
Compared to these academics Aet is 100 times more “honest”.
Royalist propaganda and policy nonsense
Most Thai people are poor that call” roots of grass” .They have no adequate food or money.In the other hand,the royal family and high class people are very rich.The gap is very wide in thailand.
Sufficiency economics cannot support the demand of poors.It only is philosophy that teach the people save , help themself and don’t hope anything from the government ( but you must pay the tax).
You must proud of this philosophy.Because it is from the genius king idea. You cannot comment in Thailand .You must accept and be happy with it.
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
The song was on TV a while back. I likewise thought it was Carabao, but wasn’t sure whether he would want to dilute his “brand image” even more. It wasn’t on the party website back then.
The King Never Smiles?
Teth, the Khmer Rouge would argued that they were ‘pragmatic’ – and so would Hitler in imposing his vision for (‘Aryan’) German/European/World society. I think you are talking ‘pragmatism’ framed by ideology here than anything else – you want Thailand to become a republic ASAP (yet acknowledging it is not possible?). No one can predict the future and I would say it may be possible. It is for future generations to decide and the only scenario that this is possible is for the monarchy to be highly unpopular which is again only possible through blatant misbehaviour (a modern example of Nepal – how just one generation may lead to the abolishment of the monarchy).
In my line of thinking, the most likely scenario is that Thailand will mature democratically and the monarchy will also become increasingly ceremonial, like Japanese and European royalties.
I would also argue that at a historical-cultural level, the Siamese-Thai monarchy has been a much more integral to Thai society. Moreover, Thais have the notion of “boonkhun”, “boonbaramee” that is very deep rooted and kings of the past still command deep emotional affection (even cultic following) to today (modern Japan seems to display some of these traits too). You can argue ‘re-education’ and negative media would do the job – but it will require the abolishing or deep rooted cultural practices. It requires every Jatukam worshippers and all those who believe the sacredness of the amulets they wear – whether of the Buddha, Hindu Gods, King Chulalongkorn…etc. to renege their their beliefs. It is ideological deep and it requires conversion (by persuasion and by force?).
On a personal level, we differ significantly as I see (supplied with much the same evidences as you) HMK and Siamese-Thai monarchs of the past as very positive influences in their respective societies. As we can’t predict the future, I don’t know what the future holds – but judging from the past to the present, that is my assessment. This was also borne out of considering ‘alternative histories’. What would Thailand be like without the monarchy? Being practical, there’s two possible times (and they maybe more) in the past two centuries when that could have occured – 1893, a total French takeover of the capital and eventual settlement with the British to divide Siam along the ChaoPhraya River into British west and French east. The second in 1932, if the radical elements in the People’s Party held sway and a bloody Siamese civil war breaks out (with a possibility of foriegn intervention lurking in the background?). In those scenarios which democratic/development path would Siam have taken amongst ‘comparable’ neighbours – Malaysia/Singapore? Myanmar/Laos/Cambodia? Vietnam? Indonesia? Will Thailand do better or worse? Without the monarchy, which institution(s) will most likely take over (an easier question, where would FMPibul, GenSarit etal with ‘absolute’ power take the country)?
Here, I also strongly agree with Jonfernquest’s apt assessment – that the monarchy is Thailand’s price for “stability”. Other commentators may beg to differ, but many Thais will agree with me that the price was more than worth it – and this is, arguably, a cultural preference. I will admit to once seriously entertaining ideas such as ‘why can’t we be more like the Europeans’? It is only after living outside of Thailand continuously for 10 years that the thought ‘I am not European (which is not as ‘perfect’ as seen from inside Thailand anyway)’ and ‘Thailand is making positive progress at its preferred rate and in its own way’ occured and then everything made perfect sense… Yes, it is full of imperfections – but generally they are not too harmful, even charming (pardon my partisanship!). Immigrants from the region over the past century+ and tourists from around the world seem to think so too… (but many commentators here will refuse to credit HMK and the monarchy with any of the positives – only everything they see and perceive as negative and wrong!)
Banharn and Aed Carabao: a match made in …
Hi,
I thought EC prohibits campaign songs, maybe I haven’t undersood theses new rules issued? Or maybe the EC canceled or bent some of these rules for fear of the controversy raised by most of the parties against these rules?
Thank for answering, I’m a little bit in the fog by now 🙂
Bovine populism
Funny post 🙂