I suppose one of his new friends (let me guess, a real estate lady?) made a phonecall to the service in charge … or maybe Grasshopper ‘s guess is right? ๐
Actually I think a lot of webboards and sites tackling political issues such as pantip or midnight university are regularly surveyed … They use webcrawlers based on keywords designed to flag the websites to be checked. Otherwise why would they have passed the cyber-crime act?
But I wouldn’t say Lost boy play in the same field (no offence meant, Matt posts its opinion on political issues sometimes).
Republican, I’m REALLY keen to read the first, as well as the second installment of Somsak’s research…but I’m illiterate: I can’t read Thai. Is it available anywhere in English.
I must say that the 2 main theories I’ve heard of and read so far are both highly improbable : (1)who would have wanted the job in preference to a nice safe life in Europe, and what other motive could there have been? & (2) Stevenson’s theory in his vapid extended P.R. release is ridiculously contrived, and has absolutely no evidence to support it, as well as considerable opposition from scholars of the Japanese spook.
I’m not surprised that Handley dealt with it so briefly. In the absence of evidence, he could have only speculated, as Stevenson did.That would have dropped the standards of what is really a pretty good piece of work, researched & written, I would think, with a fair degree of difficulty, considering that revisionism and bare-faced lies are such an integral part of Thai culture – so necessary for pulling the wool over the eyes of the people.
BTW, speaking of b.s., and I know this is way off topic – I was looking again last night at the letter sent by 7 Ambassadors to the govt 0n 22nd Nov.2006, asking for an audit of some 60 million baht given by their governments (to which a senior prat in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs reacted by stating that if they were so intent on listening to rumours, the appropriate thing to do would be to write to the government, stating their concerns…! Very Mad-Hatter’s Tea Party!), & wondering if anything ever came of it. Has anyone any news? If so, please just give me a reference. Don’t want to interrupt the flow of this discussion.
They (populist promises to the villagers/farmers) are all essentially similar. But the party that can articulate their populist policies with convincing passion should be able to win the most votes.
One of these days a Thai Hugo Chavez will rise with that convincing passion, vowing to deliver the Thai poor to a promised Eden with land to till for everyone, free health care for all, and with every Thai free from debt slavery.
Regardless, there is no need for monarchy: it is an archaic and useless institution that has no democratic grounding. How can all wo/men be equal when one is “above criticism and above the law”? Plus, it will remain an anchor for the conservative and hypocritical sections of Thai society who refuse change.
In the case of the British one, there is a balance between pragmatism and principle. The only reason the British monarchy is still there is because people reckon a figurehead President will mean nothing and cost no less than a Royal Family. (And probably a few sentimental issues). But the fact remains is that the Thai one should be abolished.
KhunPui, I understand your sentiments – and they are already well expressed without the need for profanities.
Teth, we are already in a relatively peaceful transition to a ‘constitutional monarchy’ which, in time, will be more akin to the Japanese than British model. It has been marked by the very sad, tragic violent events of 1973, 1976 and 1992 that Thais should and must not forget – and lets hope Thai students of the future gets a more accurate account of events in even-handed perspectives and relative to the contexts that they occured.
Relative to other societies, Thais have argubly paid a less painful price towards ‘democracy’. As Jonfernquest has stated in another topic, Thais are living the price of societal ‘stability’ (regardless of coups and changes of governments). Was it worth it? We’ll have to ask our fellow Thais and immigrants from unstable societies who settled in Thailand and their descendents (and also those who used/is using Siam/Thailand as a stable political base to affect changes at home).
Moreover, it will be extremely hard – if not possible – for any future Thai monarch to replicate HMK’s popularity, which is a product of specific times, places and events. Thai culture and society is already very different, unrecognizable from where it was in 1947 when HMK ascended the throne. Let’s see what we’ll be discussing in New Mandala in, say, 10 years…
“Reply to Sidh S. – 555, no, I have no illusions about a โperfect farang world.โ But in a farang country – no, just a developed, civilized, free country – one can criticize the government without being burned alive and publicly mutilated by paramilitaries working for the monarchy.”
Republican, Teth coined ‘perfect farang world’ and I maintain that you still ‘have illusions’. By the standards that you want to subject to your own country Thailand (I will take the liberty to assume you are Thai while you avoid answering Teth’s and my question), George W. Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard etal., have been and still is by far more murderous in the name of ‘War on Terror’… You believe that “Smart Bombs” are ‘smart’, Republican?
And you want to go back to the THOUSANDS “Thang daeng” deaths – as Nixon has passed away, let’s get Henry Kissinger etal for the MILLIONS of Vietnamese, Laotian Cambodian deaths (not to mention the tens of thousands young Americans – and hundreds or thousands of their Thai allies) during the Vietnam War – for precisely the same fear of Communist ideology. ‘Thang daeng’ is horrendous, no debates there, do you reckon “Napalm” was fine???
Last I checked, they all still lived with impunity in “developed, civilized, free” countries. Please open your Thai eyes, Republican… It’s so easy to be blinded by hate – we all suffer from that in our day to day existence. If we try to decrease it a bit (I have had the occasional success), we can see the world in a different light (albeit less humane, less ideal)…
Talking about bloodshed, one of the events that was not dealt with in great detail in “The King Never Smiles” (an issue that was raised on NM) was the shooting death of the king’s brother, King Rama VIII.
Read the second installment of Somsak’s research into this history-turning event, “ัโะซัโะณัโโคัโะธัโะฉัโโัโะัโะณัโะฃัโโกัโะบัโะทัโะณัโะณัโะัโะฅ ัโะฅัโะฝัโะฉัโะงัโโกัโฃะ 2 : ัโฃะัโะฉัโะปัโะตัโะทัโะัโะฝัโโัโะฉัโโัโะฉัโะงัโฃะัโะฒัโโคัโะัโะฎัโะณัโโัโะฝัโะัโะัโฃะัโฃะัโะฝัโะ ัโะปัโะณัโโัโะฝัโะฆัโโฃัโะัโะฌัโโฃัโฃะัโะฝัโโัโฃะัโะฉัโะฒัโโคัโะ” by following the links from Fa Dio Kan: http://www.sameskybooks.org/board/index.php?showtopic=4137
I am in interested in your republic idea, but Phra Thep for President? For life? These people live a long time! So we have the Presidential Palace at Siam Paragon?! No. We shouldnโt make the same mistake Pridi did.
But does Thailand really need an Oliver Cromwell to behead Charles? There will never be a peaceful transition into a Republican system unless we get rid of the royals and I suppose putting one up as a puppet is probably the best way. No need for bloodshed and we strip away the stupidity that surrounds monarchy whilst giving a job for a popular royal.
After that royal’s death, which as you say would be in a long time (long enough for everybody to forget their royalism and conservative lunacy and long enough for the new generation to be sufficiently “educated” in republican values), we elect a figurehead President and resume our Parliamentary republic system properly.
Yes, familiar, but the Dead Kennedy’s pic from their Holiday album is actually from the reporting of the massacre at Bangkok’s Thammasat University on 6 Oct 1976.
Pui: You say, “This blog just only for make money to Pual fuckinghand ly” which is silly, so I have to you agree with your own assessment of yourself: “some say I am stupid /yes am I.” You also need to clean up your language. People on this blog do not usually use profanities.
Pui: Thanks for your love story. Some mothers and fathers deserve criticism, especially if they do bad things. A monarchy is everyone’s business. You haven’t read the book, have you? Otherwise you wouldn’t post this thoughtless stuff.
Maps, 1:250,000 scale maps of Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, done by a friend now in Florida, Jim Henthorn. Note, the Lao and Thai maps have most of the “Lima site” and “Tango site” numbers indicated for the various airstrips and airports. These are from the 1973 & ’74 Air Ameria “Air Facilities Data” for the countries.
The maps are very handy as can click on a map to enlarge it so it’s actually easier to read than the original hard copy charts.
leave every counties alone let it be in thier own way
earth is geting warmer,share love to everyone stop criticize
every one will suffer,we live in same planet
westerner ,asian,
civilized westerner whom cause green house effect with civilized brain.
barbarian asian whom always were outwited from who claim to be civilized specimen.
about this book
feed oneself with criticize other people by tring to apply western culture
which is one claimed to be universal culture to Asian.
why one feel concern of other people personal feeling or affection.
how to do feel if one criticize your wife mom or dad.
I personally love this king and no one force me to love him
just only love, no other reason
It’s non of other people business.
some say Iam stupid /yes am I
some say king has good tactics to make most of stupid Thais love him.
/yes I love him
This blog just only for make money to Pual fuckinghand ly
Republican asks “the reason for the irrational, visceral hatred of him expressed by so many royalists.” An adequate answer requires considerable research and more thought, but here are some initial conjectures: (i) Thaksin’s model of business challenged the special position of the Crown Property Bureau because of his linking of political and economic power (this needs a lot of extra research); (ii)
the king personally disliked Thaksin (he criticized Thaksin from the mid-1990s); and most significant,(iii) Thaksin challenged the palace’s assumed right to control the hearts and minds of the masses. An ideological element of the monarchyโs position is that the king is the champion of the poor. All those rural projects are the symbol of the king’s supposed connection to the masses. The palace portrays itself as the savior of poor peasants, through notions of sufficiency โ doing better with what one already has โ and palace charity. Thaksin offered a different approach to the same constituency. Don’t go back to the farm and rural sufficiency, but get ahead by being entrepreneurial. Thaksinโs and TRT’s mix of social welfare (the king hates state welfare for making people “lazy”) , grassroots capitalism and their resulting appeal to those the royalists saw as the monarchyโs “natural” constituency caused great concern.
I am not surprised at all that the Thai government continues to monitor the Internet to this extent. Many years ago, at least a decade ago, on the old soc.culture.thai newsgroup, I once posted a speculative p0st regarding the nationalistic identity of the Isaan folks (Lao vs Thai) and received an e-mail that could only be construed as a government position paper vehemently rejecting any notion that the folks in Isaan could ever construct for themselves a Lao identity. The letter was not your typical public posting and it scared this anonymous poster off that newsgroup for several weeks. One can also see this trepidation over at thaivisa where any hints of reference to His Majesty, apart from government announcements, are quickly canceled and the posters who make the mistake twice are quick to lose their right to post.
Republican, thanks for those links – it sure is scary the things people can do, all in the name of fighting a perceived enemy.
Hopefully we all become more enlightened over time, and there is probably some reason for hope because this latest military dictatorship appears much less brutal than previous dictatorships, and to date they appear even less ruthless than the elected PM they overthrew (and also the leading candidate for PM in the next election)
Let me get this straight:
– Thanom apparently had the support of an anchor during his anti communist rampage.
– Thaksin apparently had the support of an anchor during his anti drug extra-judicial killing spree.
– You lament the demise of Thaksin.
So, if Thanom had been elected, would it all have been OK ?
No children at that time jeplang. There have long been rumors that the prince demands that his women be naked in his presence. It seems that all kinds of celebrities think they are amateur porn stars these days. Bits of the Thai royal family seem caught in the same celebrity trap.
Finally, I can easily understand why people could dislike Thaksin. But what I have often wondered at is the reason for the irrational, visceral hatred of him expressed by so many royalists.
Then I think of “thang daeng”, 6 October 1976, and it suddenly makes sense.
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Lost Boy under fire
Hi,
I suppose one of his new friends (let me guess, a real estate lady?) made a phonecall to the service in charge … or maybe Grasshopper ‘s guess is right? ๐
Actually I think a lot of webboards and sites tackling political issues such as pantip or midnight university are regularly surveyed … They use webcrawlers based on keywords designed to flag the websites to be checked. Otherwise why would they have passed the cyber-crime act?
But I wouldn’t say Lost boy play in the same field (no offence meant, Matt posts its opinion on political issues sometimes).
PS . excuse my English
The King Never Smiles?
Republican, I’m REALLY keen to read the first, as well as the second installment of Somsak’s research…but I’m illiterate: I can’t read Thai. Is it available anywhere in English.
I must say that the 2 main theories I’ve heard of and read so far are both highly improbable : (1)who would have wanted the job in preference to a nice safe life in Europe, and what other motive could there have been? & (2) Stevenson’s theory in his vapid extended P.R. release is ridiculously contrived, and has absolutely no evidence to support it, as well as considerable opposition from scholars of the Japanese spook.
I’m not surprised that Handley dealt with it so briefly. In the absence of evidence, he could have only speculated, as Stevenson did.That would have dropped the standards of what is really a pretty good piece of work, researched & written, I would think, with a fair degree of difficulty, considering that revisionism and bare-faced lies are such an integral part of Thai culture – so necessary for pulling the wool over the eyes of the people.
BTW, speaking of b.s., and I know this is way off topic – I was looking again last night at the letter sent by 7 Ambassadors to the govt 0n 22nd Nov.2006, asking for an audit of some 60 million baht given by their governments (to which a senior prat in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs reacted by stating that if they were so intent on listening to rumours, the appropriate thing to do would be to write to the government, stating their concerns…! Very Mad-Hatter’s Tea Party!), & wondering if anything ever came of it. Has anyone any news? If so, please just give me a reference. Don’t want to interrupt the flow of this discussion.
Thailand’s rural development policy choices
They (populist promises to the villagers/farmers) are all essentially similar. But the party that can articulate their populist policies with convincing passion should be able to win the most votes.
One of these days a Thai Hugo Chavez will rise with that convincing passion, vowing to deliver the Thai poor to a promised Eden with land to till for everyone, free health care for all, and with every Thai free from debt slavery.
If a populist coup can occur in Venezuela, why NOT Thailand?
The King Never Smiles?
Regardless, there is no need for monarchy: it is an archaic and useless institution that has no democratic grounding. How can all wo/men be equal when one is “above criticism and above the law”? Plus, it will remain an anchor for the conservative and hypocritical sections of Thai society who refuse change.
In the case of the British one, there is a balance between pragmatism and principle. The only reason the British monarchy is still there is because people reckon a figurehead President will mean nothing and cost no less than a Royal Family. (And probably a few sentimental issues). But the fact remains is that the Thai one should be abolished.
The King Never Smiles?
KhunPui, I understand your sentiments – and they are already well expressed without the need for profanities.
Teth, we are already in a relatively peaceful transition to a ‘constitutional monarchy’ which, in time, will be more akin to the Japanese than British model. It has been marked by the very sad, tragic violent events of 1973, 1976 and 1992 that Thais should and must not forget – and lets hope Thai students of the future gets a more accurate account of events in even-handed perspectives and relative to the contexts that they occured.
Relative to other societies, Thais have argubly paid a less painful price towards ‘democracy’. As Jonfernquest has stated in another topic, Thais are living the price of societal ‘stability’ (regardless of coups and changes of governments). Was it worth it? We’ll have to ask our fellow Thais and immigrants from unstable societies who settled in Thailand and their descendents (and also those who used/is using Siam/Thailand as a stable political base to affect changes at home).
Moreover, it will be extremely hard – if not possible – for any future Thai monarch to replicate HMK’s popularity, which is a product of specific times, places and events. Thai culture and society is already very different, unrecognizable from where it was in 1947 when HMK ascended the throne. Let’s see what we’ll be discussing in New Mandala in, say, 10 years…
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
“Reply to Sidh S. – 555, no, I have no illusions about a โperfect farang world.โ But in a farang country – no, just a developed, civilized, free country – one can criticize the government without being burned alive and publicly mutilated by paramilitaries working for the monarchy.”
Republican, Teth coined ‘perfect farang world’ and I maintain that you still ‘have illusions’. By the standards that you want to subject to your own country Thailand (I will take the liberty to assume you are Thai while you avoid answering Teth’s and my question), George W. Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard etal., have been and still is by far more murderous in the name of ‘War on Terror’… You believe that “Smart Bombs” are ‘smart’, Republican?
And you want to go back to the THOUSANDS “Thang daeng” deaths – as Nixon has passed away, let’s get Henry Kissinger etal for the MILLIONS of Vietnamese, Laotian Cambodian deaths (not to mention the tens of thousands young Americans – and hundreds or thousands of their Thai allies) during the Vietnam War – for precisely the same fear of Communist ideology. ‘Thang daeng’ is horrendous, no debates there, do you reckon “Napalm” was fine???
Last I checked, they all still lived with impunity in “developed, civilized, free” countries. Please open your Thai eyes, Republican… It’s so easy to be blinded by hate – we all suffer from that in our day to day existence. If we try to decrease it a bit (I have had the occasional success), we can see the world in a different light (albeit less humane, less ideal)…
The King Never Smiles?
Talking about bloodshed, one of the events that was not dealt with in great detail in “The King Never Smiles” (an issue that was raised on NM) was the shooting death of the king’s brother, King Rama VIII.
Read the second installment of Somsak’s research into this history-turning event, “ัโะซัโะณัโโคัโะธัโะฉัโโัโะัโะณัโะฃัโโกัโะบัโะทัโะณัโะณัโะัโะฅ ัโะฅัโะฝัโะฉัโะงัโโกัโฃะ 2 : ัโฃะัโะฉัโะปัโะตัโะทัโะัโะฝัโโัโะฉัโโัโะฉัโะงัโฃะัโะฒัโโคัโะัโะฎัโะณัโโัโะฝัโะัโะัโฃะัโฃะัโะฝัโะ ัโะปัโะณัโโัโะฝัโะฆัโโฃัโะัโะฌัโโฃัโฃะัโะฝัโโัโฃะัโะฉัโะฒัโโคัโะ” by following the links from Fa Dio Kan: http://www.sameskybooks.org/board/index.php?showtopic=4137
This is ESSENTIAL reading.
The King Never Smiles?
I am in interested in your republic idea, but Phra Thep for President? For life? These people live a long time! So we have the Presidential Palace at Siam Paragon?! No. We shouldnโt make the same mistake Pridi did.
But does Thailand really need an Oliver Cromwell to behead Charles? There will never be a peaceful transition into a Republican system unless we get rid of the royals and I suppose putting one up as a puppet is probably the best way. No need for bloodshed and we strip away the stupidity that surrounds monarchy whilst giving a job for a popular royal.
After that royal’s death, which as you say would be in a long time (long enough for everybody to forget their royalism and conservative lunacy and long enough for the new generation to be sufficiently “educated” in republican values), we elect a figurehead President and resume our Parliamentary republic system properly.
Horror in pink
Yes, familiar, but the Dead Kennedy’s pic from their Holiday album is actually from the reporting of the massacre at Bangkok’s Thammasat University on 6 Oct 1976.
The King Never Smiles?
Pui: You say, “This blog just only for make money to Pual fuckinghand ly” which is silly, so I have to you agree with your own assessment of yourself: “some say I am stupid /yes am I.” You also need to clean up your language. People on this blog do not usually use profanities.
The King Never Smiles?
Pui: Thanks for your love story. Some mothers and fathers deserve criticism, especially if they do bad things. A monarchy is everyone’s business. You haven’t read the book, have you? Otherwise you wouldn’t post this thoughtless stuff.
Horror in pink
Hmm, that first image looks familiar…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_in_Cambodia
Southeast Asian websites for posterity
Maps, 1:250,000 scale maps of Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, done by a friend now in Florida, Jim Henthorn. Note, the Lao and Thai maps have most of the “Lima site” and “Tango site” numbers indicated for the various airstrips and airports. These are from the 1973 & ’74 Air Ameria “Air Facilities Data” for the countries.
The maps are very handy as can click on a map to enlarge it so it’s actually easier to read than the original hard copy charts.
The King Never Smiles?
leave every counties alone let it be in thier own way
earth is geting warmer,share love to everyone stop criticize
every one will suffer,we live in same planet
westerner ,asian,
civilized westerner whom cause green house effect with civilized brain.
barbarian asian whom always were outwited from who claim to be civilized specimen.
about this book
feed oneself with criticize other people by tring to apply western culture
which is one claimed to be universal culture to Asian.
why one feel concern of other people personal feeling or affection.
how to do feel if one criticize your wife mom or dad.
I personally love this king and no one force me to love him
just only love, no other reason
It’s non of other people business.
some say Iam stupid /yes am I
some say king has good tactics to make most of stupid Thais love him.
/yes I love him
This blog just only for make money to Pual fuckinghand ly
Yellow Fever
Yellow is Good, Pink is Benign but Red is usually DANGER.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Republican asks “the reason for the irrational, visceral hatred of him expressed by so many royalists.” An adequate answer requires considerable research and more thought, but here are some initial conjectures: (i) Thaksin’s model of business challenged the special position of the Crown Property Bureau because of his linking of political and economic power (this needs a lot of extra research); (ii)
the king personally disliked Thaksin (he criticized Thaksin from the mid-1990s); and most significant,(iii) Thaksin challenged the palace’s assumed right to control the hearts and minds of the masses. An ideological element of the monarchyโs position is that the king is the champion of the poor. All those rural projects are the symbol of the king’s supposed connection to the masses. The palace portrays itself as the savior of poor peasants, through notions of sufficiency โ doing better with what one already has โ and palace charity. Thaksin offered a different approach to the same constituency. Don’t go back to the farm and rural sufficiency, but get ahead by being entrepreneurial. Thaksinโs and TRT’s mix of social welfare (the king hates state welfare for making people “lazy”) , grassroots capitalism and their resulting appeal to those the royalists saw as the monarchyโs “natural” constituency caused great concern.
Lost Boy under fire
I am not surprised at all that the Thai government continues to monitor the Internet to this extent. Many years ago, at least a decade ago, on the old soc.culture.thai newsgroup, I once posted a speculative p0st regarding the nationalistic identity of the Isaan folks (Lao vs Thai) and received an e-mail that could only be construed as a government position paper vehemently rejecting any notion that the folks in Isaan could ever construct for themselves a Lao identity. The letter was not your typical public posting and it scared this anonymous poster off that newsgroup for several weeks. One can also see this trepidation over at thaivisa where any hints of reference to His Majesty, apart from government announcements, are quickly canceled and the posters who make the mistake twice are quick to lose their right to post.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Republican, thanks for those links – it sure is scary the things people can do, all in the name of fighting a perceived enemy.
Hopefully we all become more enlightened over time, and there is probably some reason for hope because this latest military dictatorship appears much less brutal than previous dictatorships, and to date they appear even less ruthless than the elected PM they overthrew (and also the leading candidate for PM in the next election)
Let me get this straight:
– Thanom apparently had the support of an anchor during his anti communist rampage.
– Thaksin apparently had the support of an anchor during his anti drug extra-judicial killing spree.
– You lament the demise of Thaksin.
So, if Thanom had been elected, would it all have been OK ?
Thailand’s crown prince
No children at that time jeplang. There have long been rumors that the prince demands that his women be naked in his presence. It seems that all kinds of celebrities think they are amateur porn stars these days. Bits of the Thai royal family seem caught in the same celebrity trap.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Finally, I can easily understand why people could dislike Thaksin. But what I have often wondered at is the reason for the irrational, visceral hatred of him expressed by so many royalists.
Then I think of “thang daeng”, 6 October 1976, and it suddenly makes sense.