For those of you attending the 10th ICTS organized “to celebrate the auspicious occasion of the 80th birth anniversary of His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej in recognition of His Majesty’s great benevolence and life-long work for the well-being of the Thai people”, as you join forces with the propaganda machine designed to promote the king’s academic genius to his subjects, which will be visibly demonstrated by the attendence of so many “distinguished foreign scholars” at this event to honour the king, as you listen to the Princess’s opening address, as you flick through the earnest papers on “sufficiency economy”, spare a thought for the victims of “thang daeng” and 6 October.
To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) “thang daeng” only became more widely talked about in the national media quite recently. The newspaper article referred to above was published in 2003 – three decades after the events.
There is a very graphic and quite controversial documentary (about 45 minutes long) of the 6th October massacre that was aired on Thai TV in late 2001, I think produced by (the now defunct) ITV (here I could be wrong). Its main theme, very poignantly expressed by the families of the students who were slaughtered, was for the truth of the history of October 6 1976 to be revealed. I do not recall such a documentary on 6 October appearing on national TV before then.
My hypothesis: the Thaksin government (or more precisely its leftist wing of former radical students of the 1970s – Jaturon, Sutham, Mor Ming, Adisorn, etc. – who may have long memories) which came to power in early 2001, was the key factor in allowing such extremely controversial issues to be so publically discussed.
Can anyone still not understand who was behind September 19 2006, and why?
Note the role of Thanom in the massacres, as reported only a few years ago in the print media.
Note that the *estimated* number of those killed just in this region of Thailand in the early 1970s was over 3000.
Note especially what “communism” essentially meant in the Thai context: the single most dangerous threat to the monarchy, since republicanism was the sine qua non of communism.
Note the similarity between the savagery of “thang daeng” and the savagery of 6 October.
Look at the faces of the people at the cremation (apart from the Queen, the princess) – Suchinda, Anand Panyarachun, etc. It’s almost a who’s who of network monarchy.
Reply to Sidh S. – 555, no, I have no illusions about a ‘perfect farang world.’ But in a farang country – no, just a developed, civilized, free country – one can criticize the government without being burned alive and publicly mutilated by paramilitaries working for the monarchy.
JF, hold your horses, I will get to you and the expats and their ridiculous and rather pathetic royalist bias in good time.
I have no doubt that Thailand is a nice place to live for you, as it is for most expats. Where else in the world can the farang be treated quite as respectfully by people you’ve never met, on a daily basis, as in Thailand? What is funny is that you attribute this to “the anchor”. But maybe Thailand is not quite such a nice place, for example, for the families of students massacred in 1976 by royalist forces, or for so many others of the king’s enemies.
As has been pointed out numerous times on this blog, the king gave more than a green light, but active encouragement, to the killings of suspected drug dealers, in the war on drugs. This has all been documented, it’s not a secret. The only reason people don’t make the point is, once again, because of lese majeste. The drug problem had long been of particular interest to the king, at least as early as 1996 as I remember – well before Thaksin. Of course, this is entirely in keeping with the king’s veiled ruthlessness that has been a prominent feature of his reign over the last 50 years at least. Again, don’t trust me on this, all you have to do is read his speeches and books and even songs – “р╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕кр╕╣р╣Й” for example, as Somsak as so excellently described in his р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕╖р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕З , the most important book of history published in the last ten years – and you can put 2 and 2 together for yourself. This is a politician – and all kings are politicians, not shining knights at Camelot as many Americans today tend to think – who time after time has been shown to be willing to use extreme violence to ensure his hold on power. What other ruler in the world treats his subjects as metaphorical “specks of dust under the royal foot”?
So if you are to be intellectually honest with yourself, if you are going to blame Thaksin for the drug dealer killings then you can hardly avoid implicating the king.
“Thang daeng” is not any secret. The problem is not documentation. In fact, the local media and local researchers have been very active on this issue. There are research projects into it, and a monument to those who died has just been erected. The problem, as in the case of 6 October 1976, is bringing to justice those who perpetrated this savagery, this barbarity. This of course will never happen during the reign of your “anchor”.
For you the king is an anchor; for me he is a blood-soaked hammer, having crushed his enemies and set up, with his allies in the military, one of the most remarkable dictatorships in the world of the last 50 years.
I understand from your posts that you are an historian. Then judge the king on his record – and I don’t mean the record we see on the 8pm news.
I don’t see the video as being sad. In fact,I saw a woman -a exhibitionist ,perhaps-who was expressing her love of and devotion to her husband.
Had they going through a bad patch before the birthday party?
If the video was to remain private,as I believe it was meant to be,how does this reflect on the Crown Prince? O.K. so it records seemingly unusual behaviour displayed by a woman whose figure many woman would be envious of .How many children has the Princess had?
Another up-date: On the occasion of the oath-taking ceremony in Chachoengsao (there will be saparate post on this event), I talked to Mo Chaowalit of the Democrat party. He said that he respected Phanee Jarusombat of Phuea Phaendin as a hard-working women. In fact, they were both born in Ban Pho district, their houses being only about three kilometers apart. In order to emphasize that he had no hard electoral-competitive feelings towards her, he added “She could even be my relative.”
She had not previously been involved in politics, but started building her network of hua khanaen and supporters about one year before the Senate election. According to him, the people in Bang Pakong etc. liked Phanee, and he expected that she would certainly win one of the two MP seats in constituency 2. This would leave only one seat for the two Democrat and the two PPP candidates, Wuthipong and Thitima Chaisaeng.
This perspective seems to be shared by the Chaisaeng family. Reportedly, the family wanted Wuthipong to run alone. After all, he had been groomed for many years for a career in politics, while Thitima is a relative newcomer based on TRT’s success. However, Thitima did not want to stand back. Since Phanee is seen as a sure bet, voters will have one more vote to give away. They might not use it, and it is not expected that they will give it to Phanee’s running mate. As a result, of those voters of Phanee who are also in favor of a member of the Chaisaeng family some will vote for Thitima and others for Wuthipong. This will reduce their level of votes, instead of concentrating the votes on only one Chaisaeng candidate. In effect, this is an intra-family electoral competition. This situation could be fatal if the Democrat candidates can put in a strong showing.
Lleij: The Muslim candidates in Chachoengsao were excused from the ceremony at Buddhist Wat Sothorn. They did their version of the oath at a Muslim mosque.
This video is quite sad. What kind of message is the prince trying to show to everyone, that its ok to display your wife to the public? She is beyond the role of a common wife, she will be queen and if this is what they both tend to portray to the public, I don’t know what will happen when he takes the throne.
I would hardly wish to be an apologist for right wing thugs or gangsters. In fact one of the most burning issues in Thailand is the absence of a local media that documents things like the burning people in gas cans in Phattalung that you cite, the most recent case being the death lists and extrajudicial assassinations of Thaksin’s drug wars. (Please document or cite where the Phattalung case is discussed in further detail.)
You can always pin things on your own culture looking at it in isolation. Look at these pictures of the Kwangju massacre in South Korea. Some places like Cambodia and Indonesia had incomprehensible suffering in the cold war, a local “forgetting” of the insane carnage to get on with life being the normal but paradoxical response (cf. Franco in Spain) , but body count comparisons perhaps are a little futile. However Thailand got to where it is now, life here is a lot better than anything nearby. The last place I lived was Yangon, Burma and it was virtually impossible for people to make a living there and that was four years ago.
The Royalism of many expats who live in Thailand a little while may originate in the fact that they have lived in so many places and have seen so many cultures repeating the same mind-numbing patterns over and over again, like history as some gigantic chaotic whirlpool, that when they see an anchor that holds things down they have respect for it.
I just checked out the video link above, and found it fascinating, sad and somewhat titillating all at the same time.
I realise the video is old, and this has probably all been discussed before, but I noticed what seemed like camera flashes going off during the video: – I wonder who else was present, or was it the servants taking photo’s?
Also, has it been established whether the filming was done openly, or was the camera hidden?
As an avid royal watcher, Republican, maybe you could point me to the answers (based on your posts here, I presume you are not in Thailand).
But I forget. I am a mere commoner with no rights and no dignity. At least not compared to the paragon of virtue and charm that is the Thai monarchy. I am nowhere near their level of genius, nor am I entitled to criticize them. They are perfect beings of which degenerate commoners like me should be grateful for their rule.
I submit my worthless self at the foot of the royal, majestic throne. In the meantime, let’s forget 1932 ever happened and all about human rights and dignity and might as well arrange for a caste system. After all, the overwhelming charm and mystical aura of the royals should be enough reason for me to submit my scientific mind to their will.
Adeline said: And please leave HRH Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn alone, from centuries King and princes have had many women and mistresses …i think its a part of their royal pleasure and charm.
A lay man should first think where they are and who they are commenting on the Royals.
Why should I leave him alone? He is in a public position and therefore should be criticized for the sake of transparency and good governance.
And I don’t think royalty should even exist in this modern world. Is drug dealing and authoritarianism also part of that “charm”? I wonder what century you were born into.
Because if you are, this quote tells clearly shows the level of frustration you have with Thailand and perhaps excuses your idealization of the ‘perfect farang world.’
Which sounds like it might be your problem as well – with life in the West is that its egalitarian ethos grates on their sense of aristocratic privilege. The problem has nothing to do with their being looked down upon, but rather that they are looked upon at the same level as everyone else – something they are certainly not used to in their own country
If you’re not Thai, then I ask you to consider that statement again because you talk as if snobs have been eliminated in the West and that it is a society with perfect harmony and equality.
The Joel M. Halpern Laotian Slide collection may be a good addition to your archive. It contains 3,000-plus images of Laos in the 1950s and 1960s. Halpern, an anthropologist, donated the slides to the University of Wisconsin-Madison Library’s Special Collections department; the digitized images are part of the UW Center for Southeast Asian Studies/UW Libraries “SEAiT” (Southeast Asia Images and Texts) initiative. The web address is:
That first guy at the right is looking worried with eyes darting while he made his vow! And the third guy in suit looking very pious and sincere. What is the historical record anyway? Had there been any Thai politician struck by lightning yet?
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THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
For those of you attending the 10th ICTS organized “to celebrate the auspicious occasion of the 80th birth anniversary of His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej in recognition of His Majesty’s great benevolence and life-long work for the well-being of the Thai people”, as you join forces with the propaganda machine designed to promote the king’s academic genius to his subjects, which will be visibly demonstrated by the attendence of so many “distinguished foreign scholars” at this event to honour the king, as you listen to the Princess’s opening address, as you flick through the earnest papers on “sufficiency economy”, spare a thought for the victims of “thang daeng” and 6 October.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) “thang daeng” only became more widely talked about in the national media quite recently. The newspaper article referred to above was published in 2003 – three decades after the events.
There is a very graphic and quite controversial documentary (about 45 minutes long) of the 6th October massacre that was aired on Thai TV in late 2001, I think produced by (the now defunct) ITV (here I could be wrong). Its main theme, very poignantly expressed by the families of the students who were slaughtered, was for the truth of the history of October 6 1976 to be revealed. I do not recall such a documentary on 6 October appearing on national TV before then.
My hypothesis: the Thaksin government (or more precisely its leftist wing of former radical students of the 1970s – Jaturon, Sutham, Mor Ming, Adisorn, etc. – who may have long memories) which came to power in early 2001, was the key factor in allowing such extremely controversial issues to be so publically discussed.
Can anyone still not understand who was behind September 19 2006, and why?
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Further to the “Thang daeng” massacres, with some English text (scroll down): http://topicstock.pantip.com/rajdumnern/topicstock/P2495635/P2495635.html
Note the role of Thanom in the massacres, as reported only a few years ago in the print media.
Note that the *estimated* number of those killed just in this region of Thailand in the early 1970s was over 3000.
Note especially what “communism” essentially meant in the Thai context: the single most dangerous threat to the monarchy, since republicanism was the sine qua non of communism.
Note the similarity between the savagery of “thang daeng” and the savagery of 6 October.
Note that Thanom was given a royally-sponsored cremation, soon after the September 19 2006 coup. Coincidence? See http://www.naewna.com/news.asp?ID=51304
Look at the faces of the people at the cremation (apart from the Queen, the princess) – Suchinda, Anand Panyarachun, etc. It’s almost a who’s who of network monarchy.
Who do you think is in control of Thailand now?
Murderers.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Reply to Sidh S. – 555, no, I have no illusions about a ‘perfect farang world.’ But in a farang country – no, just a developed, civilized, free country – one can criticize the government without being burned alive and publicly mutilated by paramilitaries working for the monarchy.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
JF, hold your horses, I will get to you and the expats and their ridiculous and rather pathetic royalist bias in good time.
I have no doubt that Thailand is a nice place to live for you, as it is for most expats. Where else in the world can the farang be treated quite as respectfully by people you’ve never met, on a daily basis, as in Thailand? What is funny is that you attribute this to “the anchor”. But maybe Thailand is not quite such a nice place, for example, for the families of students massacred in 1976 by royalist forces, or for so many others of the king’s enemies.
As has been pointed out numerous times on this blog, the king gave more than a green light, but active encouragement, to the killings of suspected drug dealers, in the war on drugs. This has all been documented, it’s not a secret. The only reason people don’t make the point is, once again, because of lese majeste. The drug problem had long been of particular interest to the king, at least as early as 1996 as I remember – well before Thaksin. Of course, this is entirely in keeping with the king’s veiled ruthlessness that has been a prominent feature of his reign over the last 50 years at least. Again, don’t trust me on this, all you have to do is read his speeches and books and even songs – “р╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕кр╕╣р╣Й” for example, as Somsak as so excellently described in his р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▒р╕Хр╕╖р╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Хр╕гр╣Мр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕З , the most important book of history published in the last ten years – and you can put 2 and 2 together for yourself. This is a politician – and all kings are politicians, not shining knights at Camelot as many Americans today tend to think – who time after time has been shown to be willing to use extreme violence to ensure his hold on power. What other ruler in the world treats his subjects as metaphorical “specks of dust under the royal foot”?
So if you are to be intellectually honest with yourself, if you are going to blame Thaksin for the drug dealer killings then you can hardly avoid implicating the king.
On the “thang daeng” massacres, here’s a start: http://www.thaingo.org/story3/red_tang.htm
“Thang daeng” is not any secret. The problem is not documentation. In fact, the local media and local researchers have been very active on this issue. There are research projects into it, and a monument to those who died has just been erected. The problem, as in the case of 6 October 1976, is bringing to justice those who perpetrated this savagery, this barbarity. This of course will never happen during the reign of your “anchor”.
For you the king is an anchor; for me he is a blood-soaked hammer, having crushed his enemies and set up, with his allies in the military, one of the most remarkable dictatorships in the world of the last 50 years.
I understand from your posts that you are an historian. Then judge the king on his record – and I don’t mean the record we see on the 8pm news.
Thailand’s crown prince
I don’t see the video as being sad. In fact,I saw a woman -a exhibitionist ,perhaps-who was expressing her love of and devotion to her husband.
Had they going through a bad patch before the birthday party?
If the video was to remain private,as I believe it was meant to be,how does this reflect on the Crown Prince? O.K. so it records seemingly unusual behaviour displayed by a woman whose figure many woman would be envious of .How many children has the Princess had?
Candidacy registration in Chachoengsao
Another up-date: On the occasion of the oath-taking ceremony in Chachoengsao (there will be saparate post on this event), I talked to Mo Chaowalit of the Democrat party. He said that he respected Phanee Jarusombat of Phuea Phaendin as a hard-working women. In fact, they were both born in Ban Pho district, their houses being only about three kilometers apart. In order to emphasize that he had no hard electoral-competitive feelings towards her, he added “She could even be my relative.”
She had not previously been involved in politics, but started building her network of hua khanaen and supporters about one year before the Senate election. According to him, the people in Bang Pakong etc. liked Phanee, and he expected that she would certainly win one of the two MP seats in constituency 2. This would leave only one seat for the two Democrat and the two PPP candidates, Wuthipong and Thitima Chaisaeng.
This perspective seems to be shared by the Chaisaeng family. Reportedly, the family wanted Wuthipong to run alone. After all, he had been groomed for many years for a career in politics, while Thitima is a relative newcomer based on TRT’s success. However, Thitima did not want to stand back. Since Phanee is seen as a sure bet, voters will have one more vote to give away. They might not use it, and it is not expected that they will give it to Phanee’s running mate. As a result, of those voters of Phanee who are also in favor of a member of the Chaisaeng family some will vote for Thitima and others for Wuthipong. This will reduce their level of votes, instead of concentrating the votes on only one Chaisaeng candidate. In effect, this is an intra-family electoral competition. This situation could be fatal if the Democrat candidates can put in a strong showing.
A show of lengthy prayers
Lleij: The Muslim candidates in Chachoengsao were excused from the ceremony at Buddhist Wat Sothorn. They did their version of the oath at a Muslim mosque.
Thailand’s crown prince
This video is quite sad. What kind of message is the prince trying to show to everyone, that its ok to display your wife to the public? She is beyond the role of a common wife, she will be queen and if this is what they both tend to portray to the public, I don’t know what will happen when he takes the throne.
A show of lengthy prayers
And what of the Muslim, Christian, and Sikh politicians?
Were they roped into this debacule as well, or are they allowed to be corrupt?
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
I would hardly wish to be an apologist for right wing thugs or gangsters. In fact one of the most burning issues in Thailand is the absence of a local media that documents things like the burning people in gas cans in Phattalung that you cite, the most recent case being the death lists and extrajudicial assassinations of Thaksin’s drug wars. (Please document or cite where the Phattalung case is discussed in further detail.)
You can always pin things on your own culture looking at it in isolation. Look at these pictures of the Kwangju massacre in South Korea. Some places like Cambodia and Indonesia had incomprehensible suffering in the cold war, a local “forgetting” of the insane carnage to get on with life being the normal but paradoxical response (cf. Franco in Spain) , but body count comparisons perhaps are a little futile. However Thailand got to where it is now, life here is a lot better than anything nearby. The last place I lived was Yangon, Burma and it was virtually impossible for people to make a living there and that was four years ago.
The Royalism of many expats who live in Thailand a little while may originate in the fact that they have lived in so many places and have seen so many cultures repeating the same mind-numbing patterns over and over again, like history as some gigantic chaotic whirlpool, that when they see an anchor that holds things down they have respect for it.
Thailand’s crown prince
I just checked out the video link above, and found it fascinating, sad and somewhat titillating all at the same time.
I realise the video is old, and this has probably all been discussed before, but I noticed what seemed like camera flashes going off during the video: – I wonder who else was present, or was it the servants taking photo’s?
Also, has it been established whether the filming was done openly, or was the camera hidden?
As an avid royal watcher, Republican, maybe you could point me to the answers (based on your posts here, I presume you are not in Thailand).
A show of lengthy prayers
They are all praying that they don’t get caught and red carded
A show of lengthy prayers
Saw HMK in Man. City Blue today leaving the hospital.
On the same day Sven Goran is signing up 3 players for Man. City.
Maybe HMK is a Man City fan?
I think this is worthy of its own topic.
Thailand’s crown prince
But I forget. I am a mere commoner with no rights and no dignity. At least not compared to the paragon of virtue and charm that is the Thai monarchy. I am nowhere near their level of genius, nor am I entitled to criticize them. They are perfect beings of which degenerate commoners like me should be grateful for their rule.
I submit my worthless self at the foot of the royal, majestic throne. In the meantime, let’s forget 1932 ever happened and all about human rights and dignity and might as well arrange for a caste system. After all, the overwhelming charm and mystical aura of the royals should be enough reason for me to submit my scientific mind to their will.
Thailand’s crown prince
Adeline said: And please leave HRH Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn alone, from centuries King and princes have had many women and mistresses …i think its a part of their royal pleasure and charm.
A lay man should first think where they are and who they are commenting on the Royals.
Why should I leave him alone? He is in a public position and therefore should be criticized for the sake of transparency and good governance.
And I don’t think royalty should even exist in this modern world. Is drug dealing and authoritarianism also part of that “charm”? I wonder what century you were born into.
THAISOC101: Behaving bureaucratically
Republican, are you Thai, by the way?
Because if you are, this quote tells clearly shows the level of frustration you have with Thailand and perhaps excuses your idealization of the ‘perfect farang world.’
If you’re not Thai, then I ask you to consider that statement again because you talk as if snobs have been eliminated in the West and that it is a society with perfect harmony and equality.
A show of lengthy prayers
I believe it was Jesus who said that in Luke 20:46.
Southeast Asian websites for posterity
The Joel M. Halpern Laotian Slide collection may be a good addition to your archive. It contains 3,000-plus images of Laos in the 1950s and 1960s. Halpern, an anthropologist, donated the slides to the University of Wisconsin-Madison Library’s Special Collections department; the digitized images are part of the UW Center for Southeast Asian Studies/UW Libraries “SEAiT” (Southeast Asia Images and Texts) initiative. The web address is:
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/SEAiT/subcollections/LaosAbout.shtml
A show of lengthy prayers
That first guy at the right is looking worried with eyes darting while he made his vow! And the third guy in suit looking very pious and sincere. What is the historical record anyway? Had there been any Thai politician struck by lightning yet?