Yes Meki, I take that as confirmation that as I have already written, the Wamena mob were brought to the Balai Kebudayaan and surrounds in Waena specifically for that political purpose. Everyone knows this, there’s no need to be coy on an academic blog. Some urban pantura people have one or both feet across the bridge of modernity, don’t want to be reminded of what they used to be like, and don’t want to be dragged back into the past. You might want to reflect whether scaring them into Jakarta’s lap is really as smart as you seem to think it is.
The oligarchy in Thailand are by and large anti-democratic individuals connected to the monarchy network, mostly unelected (whether in government, as in the case of the Democrat Party — always put in political power on the heels of the army/amaat, or personal appointment to boards). They maintain power in their closeness and convenience to the ruling monarch. In the business world some names and political orientations (“pro-establishment”=yellow) would include: Chearavanont, CP Group; Chirathivat, Central Group; Sirivadhanabhakdi, Thai beverage; Yoovidhya, Red Bull; Birombhakdi, Boon Rawd Brewery; Srivaddhanaprabha, King Power, Nok Air; Bencharongkul, Total Access Communication; Phornprapha, Siam Motors; Vijitpongpun, Pruksa RE; Kanjanapas, BTS Group, Bangkok Land; Osathanugrah, Osotspa, Bangkok University, Shiseido Thailand; Vongkusolkit, Mitr Phol Sugar; Banpu, Erawan, Suriyawanakul, Siam Global House; Sophonpanich, Bangkok Bank, Asia Financial Holdings, Lamsan, Kasikorn Bank, Loxley; Leophairatana, TPI Polene; Leeissaranukul, Sittipol, Inoue Rubber, Thai Stanley Electric; & etc. While Thaksin was representative of new capital, his money was gained by his own thrift and business acumen and his political power through the electorate and the democratic process. Both of these factors were seen as a threat to the establishment, the ancien régime. Business families played an important role in the recent political crisis, as we saw earlier in the contest between elected government versus a conservative, far right establishment controlled by the amaat, military and old money. Not really hard to get a “coloured” picture of oligarchical power?
It seems the book will also be of interest to non-academics who follow Thai politics and tire of endless rhetoric. A little empiricism on the side with that main course seems like just the thing.
And I just want to say that this review led me to read T.F. Rhoden’s “The liberal in liberal democracy” which actually gave me more than a few chuckles and a whoop of recognition.
Everyone who discusses Thai politics and has yet to come to terms with the difference between what is ‘liberal’ and what is ‘democratic’ and how democracy without liberalism is like a day without sunshine ought to read it. Now. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/13510347.2013.851672
There have been 8 Nobel Prize winners won by people of Chinese descent. On a per capita basis its fewer than those won by Muslims.
AS for Mochtar Lubis, I read three of his novels in Indonesian. I don’t know where you get the idea that Lubis’ writing deserves a Nobel Prize. To most people, the Indonesian writer that deserves it is Pramoedya Ananta Toer. Lubis doesn’t even come close.
To be frank I won’t even compare Mochtar Lubis to Eka Kurniawan
Just a general comment about military cruelty and barabrism. Treat your own soldiers badly and they will do the same to those in their power. The military culture also reflects what is happening in the broader society. The greater the inequality and injustice in your society at a particular time, the worse you can expect your military to behave towards others in the field. Things can change quite quickly in either direction.
Duncan’s comments on the missed opportunity to develop relations with Indonesia are spot on, but a couple of his comments on the historical problems in Australia-Japan relations miss the mark. First, the Japanese army was not greatly more fanatical than other combatants in the Second World War; Allied wartime propaganda portrayed the Japanese army as fanatical and bestial, but as in other armies, its soldiers were driven by a combination of patriotism and discipline. Second, Japanese ill-treatment of Australian prisoners of war has very little in common with the demonstrative brutality of ISIS. Japanese forces badly neglected the welfare of prisoners in terribly difficult wartime conditions and they resorted to physical violence to discipline their captives. There were some incidents of extraordinary cruelty, but it was not systemic and not publicized in the way IS has publicized its barbarity. Third, Australia is remarkable for the fact that the wartime generation did not ‘pass down its abhorrence’ of Japan to later generations, partly because many of those in direct contact with Japanese during and immediately after the war saw through the wartime stereotypes. The Second World War was a huge, nasty and brutal event for all concerned, but the Japanese forces did not conduct genocide like the Nazis and they did not publicize brutality like IS.
The gist of the article – something that you have obviously missed – is the fact that the South China Sea remains a geographical flashpoint with numerous states staging territorial claims. Who are you to presume what I do/do not know about our defense relationships with the US, China or Israel? And perhaps it will serve you well to learn that despite whatever ‘arrangements’ or ‘relationships’ states have – eventually all states act in their national interests.
I very much doubt that Mr Sagaram has the classified details of Singapore’s military relationships with the US, China, UK, Australia, India, Israel or anyone else. What he sees as a layman bears superficial resemblance to the actual policies constructed by the Singapore Armed Forces, which are always highly classified. Obviously no commentator on NM is going to reveal classified information (one would hope not), but the least that one such as Mr Sagaram can do, is acknowledge that his analysis is very generic, does not go into analytical depth, and that, as much as black and white is loved in Asia, life’s reality is always gray.
Resources in the states are controlled by the state govt, however, due to the “brain washing” and constant racial drumming, govt officials often do not dare refuse requests from the royal families. This leads to a twisted and unofficial “approval” system when it comes to matters regarding forestry, mining etc, under state control.
And the other thing – can a govt official be arrested for “insulting” the sultan if he / she refuses a request from the royal family? Not tested but certainly a possibility..
“But by 1949 Japan had won its first Nobel Prize. It now has 24, mainly in physics. We have 13. Indonesia has none”..
1.6 billion Muslims have 11 TOTAL Nobels.
In addition, all non-Peace Prize Nobels (Science, Medicine, Economics, Literature) were won by global Muslims (6) who were iconoclastic and who stoutly opposed the Islamic status quo. Indonesian journalist and writer Mochtar Lubis could have easily won one in Literature, as Egyptian novelist Naguib Mahfouz and Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk did, if more people knew who Lubis was. His writing was brilliant and principled, like Mahfouz’s and Pamuk’s. Indonesia does not suffer for artistic and literary talent, it suffers from more talented crooks and swindlers. I have heard the same said about Australia (by some Australians).
“…The Royals are still very influential, especially in their respective states…”
With education, economic growth, progress (??); why are the Royals still influential. Is it purely because of their hereditary control of state resources?
Such a diverse country that carry the word “Indonesians”. The Batak are so different to the Javanese, being predominantly Christian and culturally diverse.
Unlike you I have only travelled through this nation and I feel that we (Aussie public) have ignored the diversity it offers, by focussing on Bali.
Airlines, travel agents, etc.. promote this Island almost to the exclusion of the entire archipelago.
Most Aussie schoolchildren can name the four main Islands of Japan. Can they name the four largest of Indonesia – I seriously doubt it.
Our closest neighbour and Australians are largely oblivious to their language, which incidentally was partially aligned with Malaysia some years ago. Governments can correct this, by adding modules to school curriculum.
Duncan I feel it is essential that people such as yourself, highlight this remarkably diverse nation to our people here. I am not so sure it will come from Governments of either persuasion. I personally love Indonesia and it’s people, most of those I now know are “dinky di” Aussies.
I was listening to a beautiful Indonesian Child (15yrs) sing this Christmas. http://bit.ly/1Olfx4a She is not famous, but she should be (subjective – forgive me).
Thank you for this article, however, I am compelled to add that young Japanese are changing their nation – for the better – at an alarming rate. I just spent 10 days with a 24yr old. It was quite revealing. Not all agree with Whaling.
It is quite mindboggling to call my simple request to substantiate an unsubstantiated criticism of an “absurd request”, especially on an academic blog.
How do I judge? Shouldn’t that be obvious? Only power of the argument, the logic and reason, and supportive evidence presented will convince. Rolling on the floor won’t – that will just make you look rather silly.
I did not mean to offend Ms. Chris, and no excuses on my part. I just presumed that only a “man” would be so obstinate at advocating for an Isaan secession ‘without reason or rhyme’.
You’ve been relocating from Thailand to Tanzania, East Africa, East Timor throughout these years. Surely there must have some kind of epiphany that had visited your consciousness during these wanderings that provoked the idea of “secession” as a solution to Thailand’s ongoing divisiveness.
Have you considered the blood and bones consequences, should Isaan people seriously pursue such course?
Dr. Matulanda Sugandi-Ratulangi – i found the article very interesting. But knowing nothing about Papua i would then like to ask you what you find neo-colonialistic about the article and what your counter analyses would be.
Just shooting the article down without any supporting evidence is not convincing.
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Papua’s time bomb
Yes Meki, I take that as confirmation that as I have already written, the Wamena mob were brought to the Balai Kebudayaan and surrounds in Waena specifically for that political purpose. Everyone knows this, there’s no need to be coy on an academic blog. Some urban pantura people have one or both feet across the bridge of modernity, don’t want to be reminded of what they used to be like, and don’t want to be dragged back into the past. You might want to reflect whether scaring them into Jakarta’s lap is really as smart as you seem to think it is.
A state of madness
I would challenge anyone to find a coherent statement produced by Prayuth or anyone in the junta.
I think you could have left off the rest of this sentence and could have hit the mark pretty well.
Review of Unequal Thailand
The oligarchy in Thailand are by and large anti-democratic individuals connected to the monarchy network, mostly unelected (whether in government, as in the case of the Democrat Party — always put in political power on the heels of the army/amaat, or personal appointment to boards). They maintain power in their closeness and convenience to the ruling monarch. In the business world some names and political orientations (“pro-establishment”=yellow) would include: Chearavanont, CP Group; Chirathivat, Central Group; Sirivadhanabhakdi, Thai beverage; Yoovidhya, Red Bull; Birombhakdi, Boon Rawd Brewery; Srivaddhanaprabha, King Power, Nok Air; Bencharongkul, Total Access Communication; Phornprapha, Siam Motors; Vijitpongpun, Pruksa RE; Kanjanapas, BTS Group, Bangkok Land; Osathanugrah, Osotspa, Bangkok University, Shiseido Thailand; Vongkusolkit, Mitr Phol Sugar; Banpu, Erawan, Suriyawanakul, Siam Global House; Sophonpanich, Bangkok Bank, Asia Financial Holdings, Lamsan, Kasikorn Bank, Loxley; Leophairatana, TPI Polene; Leeissaranukul, Sittipol, Inoue Rubber, Thai Stanley Electric; & etc. While Thaksin was representative of new capital, his money was gained by his own thrift and business acumen and his political power through the electorate and the democratic process. Both of these factors were seen as a threat to the establishment, the ancien régime. Business families played an important role in the recent political crisis, as we saw earlier in the contest between elected government versus a conservative, far right establishment controlled by the amaat, military and old money. Not really hard to get a “coloured” picture of oligarchical power?
Review of Unequal Thailand
Thanks for the review.
It seems the book will also be of interest to non-academics who follow Thai politics and tire of endless rhetoric. A little empiricism on the side with that main course seems like just the thing.
And I just want to say that this review led me to read T.F. Rhoden’s “The liberal in liberal democracy” which actually gave me more than a few chuckles and a whoop of recognition.
Everyone who discusses Thai politics and has yet to come to terms with the difference between what is ‘liberal’ and what is ‘democratic’ and how democracy without liberalism is like a day without sunshine ought to read it. Now. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/13510347.2013.851672
My own take here: https://mjw51.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/democratic-dreamsilliberal-realities/
So near, so far and growing apart
Other than the Nobel prize in science, the rest of the Nobel prizes have become a political joke!
So near, so far and growing apart
There have been 8 Nobel Prize winners won by people of Chinese descent. On a per capita basis its fewer than those won by Muslims.
AS for Mochtar Lubis, I read three of his novels in Indonesian. I don’t know where you get the idea that Lubis’ writing deserves a Nobel Prize. To most people, the Indonesian writer that deserves it is Pramoedya Ananta Toer. Lubis doesn’t even come close.
To be frank I won’t even compare Mochtar Lubis to Eka Kurniawan
So near, so far and growing apart
Just a general comment about military cruelty and barabrism. Treat your own soldiers badly and they will do the same to those in their power. The military culture also reflects what is happening in the broader society. The greater the inequality and injustice in your society at a particular time, the worse you can expect your military to behave towards others in the field. Things can change quite quickly in either direction.
So near, so far and growing apart
Duncan’s comments on the missed opportunity to develop relations with Indonesia are spot on, but a couple of his comments on the historical problems in Australia-Japan relations miss the mark. First, the Japanese army was not greatly more fanatical than other combatants in the Second World War; Allied wartime propaganda portrayed the Japanese army as fanatical and bestial, but as in other armies, its soldiers were driven by a combination of patriotism and discipline. Second, Japanese ill-treatment of Australian prisoners of war has very little in common with the demonstrative brutality of ISIS. Japanese forces badly neglected the welfare of prisoners in terribly difficult wartime conditions and they resorted to physical violence to discipline their captives. There were some incidents of extraordinary cruelty, but it was not systemic and not publicized in the way IS has publicized its barbarity. Third, Australia is remarkable for the fact that the wartime generation did not ‘pass down its abhorrence’ of Japan to later generations, partly because many of those in direct contact with Japanese during and immediately after the war saw through the wartime stereotypes. The Second World War was a huge, nasty and brutal event for all concerned, but the Japanese forces did not conduct genocide like the Nazis and they did not publicize brutality like IS.
Spy planes and Singapore
Dear Mr Cohen,
The gist of the article – something that you have obviously missed – is the fact that the South China Sea remains a geographical flashpoint with numerous states staging territorial claims. Who are you to presume what I do/do not know about our defense relationships with the US, China or Israel? And perhaps it will serve you well to learn that despite whatever ‘arrangements’ or ‘relationships’ states have – eventually all states act in their national interests.
Spy planes and Singapore
I very much doubt that Mr Sagaram has the classified details of Singapore’s military relationships with the US, China, UK, Australia, India, Israel or anyone else. What he sees as a layman bears superficial resemblance to the actual policies constructed by the Singapore Armed Forces, which are always highly classified. Obviously no commentator on NM is going to reveal classified information (one would hope not), but the least that one such as Mr Sagaram can do, is acknowledge that his analysis is very generic, does not go into analytical depth, and that, as much as black and white is loved in Asia, life’s reality is always gray.
Review of Palace, Political Party and Power
Neptunian, #4.1.1.1.1
Malaysia very much like Thailand then?
Review of Palace, Political Party and Power
Resources in the states are controlled by the state govt, however, due to the “brain washing” and constant racial drumming, govt officials often do not dare refuse requests from the royal families. This leads to a twisted and unofficial “approval” system when it comes to matters regarding forestry, mining etc, under state control.
And the other thing – can a govt official be arrested for “insulting” the sultan if he / she refuses a request from the royal family? Not tested but certainly a possibility..
So near, so far and growing apart
“But by 1949 Japan had won its first Nobel Prize. It now has 24, mainly in physics. We have 13. Indonesia has none”..
1.6 billion Muslims have 11 TOTAL Nobels.
In addition, all non-Peace Prize Nobels (Science, Medicine, Economics, Literature) were won by global Muslims (6) who were iconoclastic and who stoutly opposed the Islamic status quo. Indonesian journalist and writer Mochtar Lubis could have easily won one in Literature, as Egyptian novelist Naguib Mahfouz and Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk did, if more people knew who Lubis was. His writing was brilliant and principled, like Mahfouz’s and Pamuk’s. Indonesia does not suffer for artistic and literary talent, it suffers from more talented crooks and swindlers. I have heard the same said about Australia (by some Australians).
Review of Palace, Political Party and Power
“…The Royals are still very influential, especially in their respective states…”
With education, economic growth, progress (??); why are the Royals still influential. Is it purely because of their hereditary control of state resources?
So near, so far and growing apart
Hi Duncan,
Such a diverse country that carry the word “Indonesians”. The Batak are so different to the Javanese, being predominantly Christian and culturally diverse.
Unlike you I have only travelled through this nation and I feel that we (Aussie public) have ignored the diversity it offers, by focussing on Bali.
Airlines, travel agents, etc.. promote this Island almost to the exclusion of the entire archipelago.
Most Aussie schoolchildren can name the four main Islands of Japan. Can they name the four largest of Indonesia – I seriously doubt it.
Our closest neighbour and Australians are largely oblivious to their language, which incidentally was partially aligned with Malaysia some years ago. Governments can correct this, by adding modules to school curriculum.
Duncan I feel it is essential that people such as yourself, highlight this remarkably diverse nation to our people here. I am not so sure it will come from Governments of either persuasion. I personally love Indonesia and it’s people, most of those I now know are “dinky di” Aussies.
I was listening to a beautiful Indonesian Child (15yrs) sing this Christmas. http://bit.ly/1Olfx4a She is not famous, but she should be (subjective – forgive me).
Thank you for this article, however, I am compelled to add that young Japanese are changing their nation – for the better – at an alarming rate. I just spent 10 days with a 24yr old. It was quite revealing. Not all agree with Whaling.
Jokowi fails his first test
[…] Jokowi fails his first test (New Mandala) […]
Papua’s time bomb
It is quite mindboggling to call my simple request to substantiate an unsubstantiated criticism of an “absurd request”, especially on an academic blog.
How do I judge? Shouldn’t that be obvious? Only power of the argument, the logic and reason, and supportive evidence presented will convince. Rolling on the floor won’t – that will just make you look rather silly.
Papua’s time bomb
Nick: If you have to ask, it is hardly worth anyone trying to tell you.
What “convinces” you leaves some of us rolling in the aisles, so not really a meaningful standard.
Knowing nothing about Papua, how do you propose to judge either article or their relative validity if MSR were to concede to your absurd request?
That is a serious question, BTW.
A state of madness
I did not mean to offend Ms. Chris, and no excuses on my part. I just presumed that only a “man” would be so obstinate at advocating for an Isaan secession ‘without reason or rhyme’.
You’ve been relocating from Thailand to Tanzania, East Africa, East Timor throughout these years. Surely there must have some kind of epiphany that had visited your consciousness during these wanderings that provoked the idea of “secession” as a solution to Thailand’s ongoing divisiveness.
Have you considered the blood and bones consequences, should Isaan people seriously pursue such course?
Papua’s time bomb
Dr. Matulanda Sugandi-Ratulangi – i found the article very interesting. But knowing nothing about Papua i would then like to ask you what you find neo-colonialistic about the article and what your counter analyses would be.
Just shooting the article down without any supporting evidence is not convincing.