Some rare insight into the democraticness of the Constitution Drafting Assembly by one of its members, election commissioner Sodsri Satyatham (spoken to her fellow members of the CDA): “Don’t harbour the idea that you are legitimately appointed. You are here by grace of the Council for National Security, which pays your salaries.”
Mmh yeah. I agree with what he said, only difference is Bangkok is much safer than Manila and it has way better infrastructure. As bad as Thailand is at the moment, I would enver ever move to the Philippines. But for sure, the Philippine people do have more brain power than the Thais who can’t count to 3 without making a mistake. They are brainwashed, dumb and proud. A really bad combination.
“Gen Sonthi said yesterday the Internal Security Operations Command has been assigned to work with provincial governors to thwart attempts to ”persuade” the public to reject the charter.”
Bangkok Post, print edition, 1 July 2007
“Some 1,000 Assembly of the Poor (AOP) members were Tuesday prevented by military and local officials from boarding buses from their home provinces to stage a demonstration in Bangkok in a bid to urge Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont to solve their problems.
“We didn’t expect it to be this way. They should have let villagers come as the Assembly of the Poor has no hidden political agenda,” said AOP coordinator Baramee Chaiyarat. “They shouldn’t have done this. It’s too much of a violation of human rights.”
Villagers from four provinces of Ubon Ratchathani, Si Sa Ket, Surin and Roi Et were apparently stopped just before boarding their hired bus by the military and district chiefs. Authorities cited the lack of paper permit who is required under martial law which is still in effect in more than 30 provinces since the September 19 coup last year. Members of the Assembly from the Southern region has managed to board their buses but may be apprehended midway, said Baramee.
“We will go to see the National Human Rights Commission [Wednesday] before heading to the Government House.”
“Educated Thais (this excludes most The Nation writers) know that the coup was a horrific regression into militarist politics.” > There seem to be very few of this species–“educated Thais”–these days. Or are all those academics with their “Dr.” or “Prof.” titles who have been bought by the military uneducated?
“It’s not in the Thai character to admit mistakes under any circumstances.” > This rings very true, and already was the case with Thaksin, the Democrats, the courts… The above academics will never admit that they had chosen the wrong side, and will act very defensively if you call their decision to join the military into question. Or they will just look sheepishly and joke about it, which is another Thai way of trying to get away with what one has done.
“You can’t be pro-coup and pro-democracy. I am. You can’t be pro-coup and pro-rule of law. I am.” > That doesn’t surprise me a bit, knowing that you are a staunch royalist, and still claim to be democratic-minded. 🙂
Looking back, the NPKC coup in 1991 was so nicely clear-cut, black-and-white. Everybody knew to which camp he/she belonged. If this coup has any benefit, it is in exposing the utter political-cultural confusion of many actors and observers. Thus, we can learn a lot about what Thai politics really is, rather than falling into the good-guy (democrat) / bad-guy (military dictator) trap. But having “democrats” joining “dictators” also makes understanding structures and ideas more difficult. It will take some time for analysts to make sense out of all this.
Thanks THAIDUDE for your explanation. For me, the content of the draft constitution is, beyond a point, not the issue. Whether a senate should be elected or appointed, or whether ISOC should be given more or less power, etc., are points of debate that do not go to the heart of the issue.
What is at issue is the nature & direction of the ‘social contract’ between Thais in the country. The constitution is just a piece of paper that reflects that contract.
Right now (and it may have been so under Thaksin as well), you are I are second class citizens, and the passage of the referendum, whether won by the yes or no vote, says much more about our acceptance of our condition than it does of the finer points of debate about the content of the paper. We are effectively saying to the ruling class: “give us back our voting rights, but we acknowledge that you have final right of veto”.
We are indeed at an interesting crossroads. I’m voting no to help force the issue. Let the junta bring out another piece of paper. The social contract in Thailand can only learn from its trials, and what does not kill us can only make us stronger.
“…Well, at least Thailand does not have those “salvaging” executions (reaching a peak during the democratic Aquino era, when there was no soldier in control to control them…”
Sounds llike an advocate for a ‘strong man’ to be in charge, to keep control of the violence-prone militants. Similar to those Iraqis who wanted Saddam Hussien back. I am sure there were many many people who lived well and prospered in Iraq pre-2003, and thought the place ‘not perfect, but…a very functional place’.
Tell me, Jon, how can a pro-coup, pro-rule of law be reconciled?
Why was it that Thaksin’s ‘democratic’ regime was particularly suffocating to me but General Sonthi’s junta is not? And I consider myself a fierce espouser of democratic values, a sentiment Jon Fernquest similarly expressed.
i consider myself a well-travelled and well-read person and I am not trying to be pompous or superior.
It is just the there is a very distintinctive malicious pattern in the Thaksin-style democracy that was so threatening to the stability of the Kingdom of Thailand that I am moved to relief when the coup ended Thaksin’s run. It was a personal relief because i was getting very dangerously very angry that Thaksin at that time was looking untouchable despite his extrajudicials, corruption, divisiveness and ineptitute . . . I could have strangled a nyred-shirt TRT member to get satisfaction.
One thing I cannot understand is why ‘democracy lovers’ have not turned on Thaksin for stuffing things up with his greed, as that was the main catalyst for his downfall.
Academics keep banging away about ‘the network’ in Thailand, but the way I see it there are similar networks in most countries (including western democracies), and the only real difference is the amount of crumbs left for the masses.
If somehow the ‘network’ in Thailand is different from that in other countries, and Thaksin was the best chance at destroying or minimising that network, then why are you not disappointed in him?
“I believe this paper is a big joke, if not completely stupid.”
Well, at least Thailand does not have those “salvaging” executions (reaching a peak during the democratic Aquino era, when there was no soldier in control to control them, as I remember from McCoy’s lecture at Univ of Wisconsin) or whatever they call those things where a Catholic priest or nun, gets his or her t*ct*cl*s electrocuted, dumped by the side of the road, dead, by the armed forces of course, and ethnic insurgencies, currently entrenched, a Phillipino friend in Thailand tells me, institutionalized, a way of life for many, and a gun control problem that beggars description….
Last time I was in the Phillipines, Gringo Honason had escaped from a prison ship in Manila harbour, after a failed coup attempt, everyone was cheering him on, in fact he got elected to the senate afterwards. Things are not perfect, but Thailand is a very functional place, and will be even more so in the future.
“Staying here reminds me of everything during martial rule in the Philippines during the Marcos regime. I feel like I am living in the 70s and 80s back in the Philippines again. I was walking along the street this morning and I saw beggars, persons with mental problems and scavengers. This place is no different from my country.”
Changes in the last year have brought this about? Don’t make me laugh. You should have been here in the early Thaksin years, that looked and felt like Marcos. Read your Phasuk and Baker and fill yourself on the necessary background.
Asking a Thai if she or he likes the coup will not get an honest answer in every case. Voicing support for the coup is a face-saving exercise for many. Educated Thais (this excludes most The Nation writers) know that the coup was a horrific regression into militarist politics. And they are aware that the international community of developed and democratic countries along with most NGOs have condemned the coup and continue to do so.
But from a Thai viewpoint, admitting the coup was a mistake would make things even worse and exacerbate the international humilitation brought on by these condemnations. They will rather become more defiant and in this case nationalistic, and the coup leader and his cronies are stoking and pandering to these nationalist sentiments (“they’re spying on us”). It’s not in the Thai character to admit mistakes under any circumstances. So don’t count on humility, sensibility and forgiveness from the junta or their puppets NLA, CDA, cabinet or PM. This will also let the current political impasse drag on for a long time.
Jeru,
That fierce warrior blood was displayed, in many cases quite literally in 1988 to cite just one instance. Most of my Kachin friends have been imprisoned, shot at, or both. Inside Burma, regular individuals routinely take actions, that if they were caught would result in rather unpleasant consequences.
The problem is swords and even war elephants aren’t much good against machine guns. And while you personally might be willing to go up against those machine guns what about your children, grandparents, parents etc in the aftermath?
What double standards may that be Tosakan that you would like to lay some guilt complex syndrome on us poor undermoctatic Thais who just have had enough of Thaksin Shinawatra?
Naaah! I looked myself in the mirror and I am quite pleased with the circuit-breaker junta solution, lest Thaksin Shinawatra would have electrocuted the Thai Kingdom to death had he continued on with his ‘constitutional’ right to rule, if you get my drift . . .
Believe me Tosakan . . . had Thaksin Shinawatra continued on a little bit longer, Thailand would have suffocated Philippines-like with Marcos style ‘greatness’ for the country, rhetorically only of course.
I’d stick the Thai constitution right up Thaksin’s ass if I had my druthers because during all the time he was Premier, Thaksin was constipating me with his democracy crap non-stop even up to now . . .
Alpha Centauri is my favorite game of all time!! A true masterpiece.
My perfect world would be a cross between the Morganites and the Data Angels, with a bit of the Nautilus Pirates thrown in….how about you?
“Man’s unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me. We long for a caring Universe which will save us from our childish mistakes, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary we will pin all our hopes on the slimmest of doubts. God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist.” — Academician Prokhor Zakharov
“when in fact the legitimacy of the body that is supposed to pass it is questionable” > Legitimacy is an empirical issue. If most people don’t mind, rather even actively think that the coup was good, then the coup/NLA is legitimate. And that’s obviously the situation.
To many people, the NLA is just the same as an elected House, therefore, it’s deliberations are not at all meaningless. There are many “critical” and “NGO” people on the NLA, who see this as an excellent opportunity to exert some influence, to get some things through that the evil Thaksin ignored, and that coming elected governments will probably also ignore.
And it is this opportunism and misconception of representative bodies that is so unsettling.
BTW: The informal elite political party–that never wants to dirty its hands with elections–has managed to use the CDC to put most of its policy platform into the draft constitution. Thus, even an elected government will have to implement the policies of this unelected and informal political party.
And in order to be able to secure its position, this informal party has also managed to establish an electoral system that promotes vote-buying and excludes new political forces (green, labor, or whatever) from access to representative politics.
The situation in Thailand remind me of a quote from PC game “Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri” (1999), about the concept and relationship of oppressor-oppressed.
“My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack’s muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?”
Funny, I thought I was the only one making this point ad nauseum.
You can’t be pro-coup and pro-democracy.
You can’t be pro-coup and pro-rule of law.
You can’t be pro-coup and say that Thaksin’s crimes outweigh what the junta did, which was to punish the entire country for the alleged crimes of one person. When you really think about it, what the junta did was a million times worse than Thaksin’s corruption, especially when you consider that the Senate never moved to impeach him and there was an election scheduled for October.
What is more treasonous, selling Shin Group to Singapore or ripping up the constitution and stripping every Thai man, woman and child of their civil liberties?
People who take these contradictory opinions suffer from serious cognitive dissonance problems.
And, quite frankly, I think there should be a lot more people out there calling pro-junta people out on their double standards and intellectual inconsistency.
In the end, when all is said and done, and serious historians write the history of this period, I hope they take the Thai press, notably the worthless The Nation, to task for its hypocrisy.
It really is a joke when The Nation has column after column about democracy this and democracy that, and when they go after the Burmese military, they really come off looking like fools.
I doubt the people he spoke to really like coups, but they probably dislike Thaksin more (or rather they dislike Thaksin’s greed & arrogance).
I also suspect most of those people cannot wait to see the back of the junta, but at the same time they recognise the coup was necessary to get rid of Thaksin.
Tosakan can dream all he likes about removing Thaksin via the constitution or ballot box, but like Jon Fernquest says “No coup, no Thaksin wasn’t on the menu”
Also, I’m pretty sure the beggars, people with mental problems & scavengers were there before the coup.
The journalist & human rights advocate probably has enough on his hands with the Philippines, let alone waying into Thailands complex situation.
BTW for an insight into the thinking of one of the ‘old ginger’ ministers, GnarlyKitty has a recording of Sitthichai at the FCCT here: http://gnarlykitty.blogspot.com/
Personally, I find it very hard to dislike someone with a sense of humour like Sitthichai.
allowing people to vote in, and have a say in, their temporary Bangkok residence. >> Nothing legal hinders migrants to register their residence in Bangkok. Then, they can vote here. I don’t have any figures, but it seems that many migrants do not have a “temporary” but rather a permanent residence in BKK. Or does the typical long-term Isan taxi driver in BKK still spends most of the year in his village of origin?
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Democratic double standards?
Jeru, Thaksin’s ‘democratic’ regime suffocated you, but General Sonthi’s junta does not because you are a bootlicker and a yellowshirt.
Pure and simple. General Sonthi’s junta is instead suffocating the poor and the “uneducated-rural-masses.”
Democratic double standards?
Some rare insight into the democraticness of the Constitution Drafting Assembly by one of its members, election commissioner Sodsri Satyatham (spoken to her fellow members of the CDA): “Don’t harbour the idea that you are legitimately appointed. You are here by grace of the Council for National Security, which pays your salaries.”
Democratic double standards?
Mmh yeah. I agree with what he said, only difference is Bangkok is much safer than Manila and it has way better infrastructure. As bad as Thailand is at the moment, I would enver ever move to the Philippines. But for sure, the Philippine people do have more brain power than the Thais who can’t count to 3 without making a mistake. They are brainwashed, dumb and proud. A really bad combination.
Democratic double standards?
Two afterthoughts on “standards of democracy”:
“Gen Sonthi said yesterday the Internal Security Operations Command has been assigned to work with provincial governors to thwart attempts to ”persuade” the public to reject the charter.”
Bangkok Post, print edition, 1 July 2007
“Some 1,000 Assembly of the Poor (AOP) members were Tuesday prevented by military and local officials from boarding buses from their home provinces to stage a demonstration in Bangkok in a bid to urge Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont to solve their problems.
“We didn’t expect it to be this way. They should have let villagers come as the Assembly of the Poor has no hidden political agenda,” said AOP coordinator Baramee Chaiyarat. “They shouldn’t have done this. It’s too much of a violation of human rights.”
Villagers from four provinces of Ubon Ratchathani, Si Sa Ket, Surin and Roi Et were apparently stopped just before boarding their hired bus by the military and district chiefs. Authorities cited the lack of paper permit who is required under martial law which is still in effect in more than 30 provinces since the September 19 coup last year. Members of the Assembly from the Southern region has managed to board their buses but may be apprehended midway, said Baramee.
“We will go to see the National Human Rights Commission [Wednesday] before heading to the Government House.”
The Nation 1 July 2007 (breaking news)
Democratic double standards?
“Educated Thais (this excludes most The Nation writers) know that the coup was a horrific regression into militarist politics.” > There seem to be very few of this species–“educated Thais”–these days. Or are all those academics with their “Dr.” or “Prof.” titles who have been bought by the military uneducated?
“It’s not in the Thai character to admit mistakes under any circumstances.” > This rings very true, and already was the case with Thaksin, the Democrats, the courts… The above academics will never admit that they had chosen the wrong side, and will act very defensively if you call their decision to join the military into question. Or they will just look sheepishly and joke about it, which is another Thai way of trying to get away with what one has done.
“You can’t be pro-coup and pro-democracy. I am. You can’t be pro-coup and pro-rule of law. I am.” > That doesn’t surprise me a bit, knowing that you are a staunch royalist, and still claim to be democratic-minded. 🙂
Looking back, the NPKC coup in 1991 was so nicely clear-cut, black-and-white. Everybody knew to which camp he/she belonged. If this coup has any benefit, it is in exposing the utter political-cultural confusion of many actors and observers. Thus, we can learn a lot about what Thai politics really is, rather than falling into the good-guy (democrat) / bad-guy (military dictator) trap. But having “democrats” joining “dictators” also makes understanding structures and ideas more difficult. It will take some time for analysts to make sense out of all this.
Mapping the post-coup academic landscape
Thanks THAIDUDE for your explanation. For me, the content of the draft constitution is, beyond a point, not the issue. Whether a senate should be elected or appointed, or whether ISOC should be given more or less power, etc., are points of debate that do not go to the heart of the issue.
What is at issue is the nature & direction of the ‘social contract’ between Thais in the country. The constitution is just a piece of paper that reflects that contract.
Right now (and it may have been so under Thaksin as well), you are I are second class citizens, and the passage of the referendum, whether won by the yes or no vote, says much more about our acceptance of our condition than it does of the finer points of debate about the content of the paper. We are effectively saying to the ruling class: “give us back our voting rights, but we acknowledge that you have final right of veto”.
We are indeed at an interesting crossroads. I’m voting no to help force the issue. Let the junta bring out another piece of paper. The social contract in Thailand can only learn from its trials, and what does not kill us can only make us stronger.
Democratic double standards?
“…Well, at least Thailand does not have those “salvaging” executions (reaching a peak during the democratic Aquino era, when there was no soldier in control to control them…”
Sounds llike an advocate for a ‘strong man’ to be in charge, to keep control of the violence-prone militants. Similar to those Iraqis who wanted Saddam Hussien back. I am sure there were many many people who lived well and prospered in Iraq pre-2003, and thought the place ‘not perfect, but…a very functional place’.
Tell me, Jon, how can a pro-coup, pro-rule of law be reconciled?
Democratic double standards?
Why was it that Thaksin’s ‘democratic’ regime was particularly suffocating to me but General Sonthi’s junta is not? And I consider myself a fierce espouser of democratic values, a sentiment Jon Fernquest similarly expressed.
i consider myself a well-travelled and well-read person and I am not trying to be pompous or superior.
It is just the there is a very distintinctive malicious pattern in the Thaksin-style democracy that was so threatening to the stability of the Kingdom of Thailand that I am moved to relief when the coup ended Thaksin’s run. It was a personal relief because i was getting very dangerously very angry that Thaksin at that time was looking untouchable despite his extrajudicials, corruption, divisiveness and ineptitute . . . I could have strangled a nyred-shirt TRT member to get satisfaction.
Democratic double standards?
One thing I cannot understand is why ‘democracy lovers’ have not turned on Thaksin for stuffing things up with his greed, as that was the main catalyst for his downfall.
Academics keep banging away about ‘the network’ in Thailand, but the way I see it there are similar networks in most countries (including western democracies), and the only real difference is the amount of crumbs left for the masses.
If somehow the ‘network’ in Thailand is different from that in other countries, and Thaksin was the best chance at destroying or minimising that network, then why are you not disappointed in him?
Democratic double standards?
“It’s not in the Thai character to admit mistakes under any circumstances”
So Thaksin has an excuse.
“So don’t count on humility, sensibility and forgiveness from the junta or their puppets NLA, CDA, cabinet or PM”
Funny, but I can detect some of those qualities in Surayud and Sitthichai when listening to them.
Democratic double standards?
“You can’t be pro-coup and pro-democracy.”
I am.
“You can’t be pro-coup and pro-rule of law.”
I am.
“I believe this paper is a big joke, if not completely stupid.”
Well, at least Thailand does not have those “salvaging” executions (reaching a peak during the democratic Aquino era, when there was no soldier in control to control them, as I remember from McCoy’s lecture at Univ of Wisconsin) or whatever they call those things where a Catholic priest or nun, gets his or her t*ct*cl*s electrocuted, dumped by the side of the road, dead, by the armed forces of course, and ethnic insurgencies, currently entrenched, a Phillipino friend in Thailand tells me, institutionalized, a way of life for many, and a gun control problem that beggars description….
Last time I was in the Phillipines, Gringo Honason had escaped from a prison ship in Manila harbour, after a failed coup attempt, everyone was cheering him on, in fact he got elected to the senate afterwards. Things are not perfect, but Thailand is a very functional place, and will be even more so in the future.
“Staying here reminds me of everything during martial rule in the Philippines during the Marcos regime. I feel like I am living in the 70s and 80s back in the Philippines again. I was walking along the street this morning and I saw beggars, persons with mental problems and scavengers. This place is no different from my country.”
Changes in the last year have brought this about? Don’t make me laugh. You should have been here in the early Thaksin years, that looked and felt like Marcos. Read your Phasuk and Baker and fill yourself on the necessary background.
Democratic double standards?
Asking a Thai if she or he likes the coup will not get an honest answer in every case. Voicing support for the coup is a face-saving exercise for many. Educated Thais (this excludes most The Nation writers) know that the coup was a horrific regression into militarist politics. And they are aware that the international community of developed and democratic countries along with most NGOs have condemned the coup and continue to do so.
But from a Thai viewpoint, admitting the coup was a mistake would make things even worse and exacerbate the international humilitation brought on by these condemnations. They will rather become more defiant and in this case nationalistic, and the coup leader and his cronies are stoking and pandering to these nationalist sentiments (“they’re spying on us”). It’s not in the Thai character to admit mistakes under any circumstances. So don’t count on humility, sensibility and forgiveness from the junta or their puppets NLA, CDA, cabinet or PM. This will also let the current political impasse drag on for a long time.
Raging argument about war in Burma
Jeru,
That fierce warrior blood was displayed, in many cases quite literally in 1988 to cite just one instance. Most of my Kachin friends have been imprisoned, shot at, or both. Inside Burma, regular individuals routinely take actions, that if they were caught would result in rather unpleasant consequences.
The problem is swords and even war elephants aren’t much good against machine guns. And while you personally might be willing to go up against those machine guns what about your children, grandparents, parents etc in the aftermath?
Democratic double standards?
What double standards may that be Tosakan that you would like to lay some guilt complex syndrome on us poor undermoctatic Thais who just have had enough of Thaksin Shinawatra?
Naaah! I looked myself in the mirror and I am quite pleased with the circuit-breaker junta solution, lest Thaksin Shinawatra would have electrocuted the Thai Kingdom to death had he continued on with his ‘constitutional’ right to rule, if you get my drift . . .
Believe me Tosakan . . . had Thaksin Shinawatra continued on a little bit longer, Thailand would have suffocated Philippines-like with Marcos style ‘greatness’ for the country, rhetorically only of course.
I’d stick the Thai constitution right up Thaksin’s ass if I had my druthers because during all the time he was Premier, Thaksin was constipating me with his democracy crap non-stop even up to now . . .
Democratic double standards?
Re Fall>
Alpha Centauri is my favorite game of all time!! A true masterpiece.
My perfect world would be a cross between the Morganites and the Data Angels, with a bit of the Nautilus Pirates thrown in….how about you?
“Man’s unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me. We long for a caring Universe which will save us from our childish mistakes, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary we will pin all our hopes on the slimmest of doubts. God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist.” — Academician Prokhor Zakharov
Democratic double standards?
“when in fact the legitimacy of the body that is supposed to pass it is questionable” > Legitimacy is an empirical issue. If most people don’t mind, rather even actively think that the coup was good, then the coup/NLA is legitimate. And that’s obviously the situation.
To many people, the NLA is just the same as an elected House, therefore, it’s deliberations are not at all meaningless. There are many “critical” and “NGO” people on the NLA, who see this as an excellent opportunity to exert some influence, to get some things through that the evil Thaksin ignored, and that coming elected governments will probably also ignore.
And it is this opportunism and misconception of representative bodies that is so unsettling.
BTW: The informal elite political party–that never wants to dirty its hands with elections–has managed to use the CDC to put most of its policy platform into the draft constitution. Thus, even an elected government will have to implement the policies of this unelected and informal political party.
And in order to be able to secure its position, this informal party has also managed to establish an electoral system that promotes vote-buying and excludes new political forces (green, labor, or whatever) from access to representative politics.
Democratic double standards?
The situation in Thailand remind me of a quote from PC game “Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri” (1999), about the concept and relationship of oppressor-oppressed.
“My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack’s muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?”
Democratic double standards?
Funny, I thought I was the only one making this point ad nauseum.
You can’t be pro-coup and pro-democracy.
You can’t be pro-coup and pro-rule of law.
You can’t be pro-coup and say that Thaksin’s crimes outweigh what the junta did, which was to punish the entire country for the alleged crimes of one person. When you really think about it, what the junta did was a million times worse than Thaksin’s corruption, especially when you consider that the Senate never moved to impeach him and there was an election scheduled for October.
What is more treasonous, selling Shin Group to Singapore or ripping up the constitution and stripping every Thai man, woman and child of their civil liberties?
People who take these contradictory opinions suffer from serious cognitive dissonance problems.
And, quite frankly, I think there should be a lot more people out there calling pro-junta people out on their double standards and intellectual inconsistency.
In the end, when all is said and done, and serious historians write the history of this period, I hope they take the Thai press, notably the worthless The Nation, to task for its hypocrisy.
It really is a joke when The Nation has column after column about democracy this and democracy that, and when they go after the Burmese military, they really come off looking like fools.
Democratic double standards?
I doubt the people he spoke to really like coups, but they probably dislike Thaksin more (or rather they dislike Thaksin’s greed & arrogance).
I also suspect most of those people cannot wait to see the back of the junta, but at the same time they recognise the coup was necessary to get rid of Thaksin.
Tosakan can dream all he likes about removing Thaksin via the constitution or ballot box, but like Jon Fernquest says “No coup, no Thaksin wasn’t on the menu”
Also, I’m pretty sure the beggars, people with mental problems & scavengers were there before the coup.
The journalist & human rights advocate probably has enough on his hands with the Philippines, let alone waying into Thailands complex situation.
BTW for an insight into the thinking of one of the ‘old ginger’ ministers, GnarlyKitty has a recording of Sitthichai at the FCCT here:
http://gnarlykitty.blogspot.com/
Personally, I find it very hard to dislike someone with a sense of humour like Sitthichai.
“Rural no more”
allowing people to vote in, and have a say in, their temporary Bangkok residence. >> Nothing legal hinders migrants to register their residence in Bangkok. Then, they can vote here. I don’t have any figures, but it seems that many migrants do not have a “temporary” but rather a permanent residence in BKK. Or does the typical long-term Isan taxi driver in BKK still spends most of the year in his village of origin?