Not to take away anything from “Political Systems of Highland Burma” , but Leach certainly is worth reconsidering. Some Kachins I knew thought that he mis-interpreted the mayu/dama relationship, and I can think of some other areas worth another look.
Re Locke’s remark:”Thailand must think of its own national security, which should trump environmental needs at this stage of its development.” I am truly horrified by this sentiment. The greatest risk to national security is present orgy of environmental destruction which will lead to internal displacements and unrest. Too often “national security” is effectively just an investment in stability, but stability becomes your greatest weakness when the ground is shifting under your feet (e.g. demographic change, resources depleted, rainfall patterns shifted etc.). What is needed is an approach of managed dynamic strategic planning and constructive cooperation. “national security” will descend into defending a shrinking pot, and will lead Thailand down the Burma road.
True enough Srithanonchai . . that without ‘power’ to shield them, either money, tanks or guns, crooks will quickly hang. But men of integrity will have nothing to worry about. Hence, Srithanonchai, should Thaksin Shinawatra worry?
Glad we are in agreement Anon that Thaksin’s politics and disbanded political party was mainly voodoo.
Populist policies . . good programs even as ‘campaigned’ or even carried out would still demand LEADERS OF INTEGRITY to be credible. When we have a criminal gang of sort, operating like a mafia to carry out unprecedented massive blatant corruption, and evading taxes to boot, plus extrajudicial killings and mismanagement of the explosive Southern unrest, those TRT policies will appear to be merely voodoo sleight-of-hand tricks, to hide the criminal looting being carried out by Thaksin’s very corrupt gang of TRT corrupts.
With Anon, Patiwat, BangkokPundit, Republican, Tosakan and many similarly inclined rooting still for a totally discredited ThaiRakThai party, despite all the revelations, what would I gain from Thai politics? I heard those 14 million TRT members still pine for their Beloved Leader (don’t they?) despite everything! That is not encouraging . . . that’s too much voodoo for me, no thank you!
I’ll be content with my infrequent forays into New Mandala to reveal liars and deceivers, paid for by Thaksin.
The problem is the rules for the senate are currently wrong. The changes that should be made are beyond me.
However, when the rule states that a person cannot sit in both parliament and senate, the point of the rule is obviously not meant to mean that a husband can sit in the parliament and a wife in the senate.
Until law writers get more precise in their language there will always be people who can get around it.
How about we ask all political parties to strictly adhere to the rules?
I have seen it first hand up country. They are all as bad as each other. How on earth would you describe any party headed by the dinosaurs Banharn, Chavalit or Sanan?
They may have sold their soul to Taksin, but in their time they have sold their soul to everyone simply to get into the goverment of the day. The difference was that when they followed Taksin he delivered them a landslide. He delievered the local politicians a iron clad chance to rip off everyone. What he expected in return was iron clad loyalty which lasted as he was in power.
I dare any local MP to stand up in Thailand and say what his principles really are other than making sure that he and his friend’s businesses get the biggest piece of the pie afterwards.
The system is still sick whether Taksin is there or not.
As Gladiator said: We stay together–we’ll survive; we’ll fight each on his own–we will all die. – Srithanonchai
The aphorism that applies to the Thai Rak Thai party courtiers of Thaksin Shinawatra was: “Stay together and we’ll hang together, or, be separately hanged.” Crooks will sooner or later be hanged, together or separately.
Democracy comes from real debates and practices that will always involve fussy, entangled details like this. It is a matter of engaging the public in the debates. It is undemocratic when the elites (politicians, military, monarchists) think that they know best — and sadly that’s often the case. By the way, anyone read that news on TOT board and Saprang?
NIDA’s self sufficiency: From July 11-12, 2007, NIDA will host an international conference on the topic “Alternative Development and Sufficiency Economy.” The event will take place in one of those typically sufficient, reasonable, and moderate luxury hotels, the Royal Orchid Sheraton.
On “Why Alternative Development”, we will hear Michael Watts, Peter Evans, and Juree Vichit-Vadakan (her Philanthropy and Civil Society Center is the organizer). Chaiwat Wibulswasdi (yes!) will give a talk on “Sufficiency Economy Philosophy and Development”, which will be moderated by — yes! — Chris Baker. Some reflections will be added by — oh ho!! — Amartya Sen. In the afternoon, in the presence of HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindorn, he will give a lecture on “What might Capability Centered Development Mean for 21st Century.” Ammar Siamwalla will add some reflections.
On the 12th, there will be a panel on “Deepening democracy and extending capabilities” by Amita Baviskar and Gianpaolo Baiocci. Chair: Somsak Xuto; discussants: Michael Watts, Danny Unger, and Surichai Wun’Gaeo. The concluding panel will be about “State capacity and promoting alternatives”, featuring Aihwa Ong, Nelson H. H. Graburik, and Peter Evans. Chair: Danny Unger, discussants: Peter Geithner, Walden Bello, and Amara Pongsapich.
Dr Chirmsak Pinthong used to be one of the Senators. He observed that approx. 80 Senators always voted/approved TRT/Thaksin’s policies (policy corruption). These were the same people who are relatives and friends of Thaksin and TRT. In (right) principle, nothig is wrong to have the Senator. But who they are and how to select them become problematic in Thailand in the previous government. That’s why Dr Chirmsak commented that “… history had proved…”.
There is a lot of variation to be accounted for. Is the report available? It would be interesting to see what factors account for this variability.
IMHO Zero growth sustainability philosophies and rural demographics rarely seem go hand in hand. Whenever I think of the sort revisions of mainstream economic thinking like Sufficiency Economy, I immediately think of the **continual unremittant pressure to have babies** on young rural women and also their lack of educational opportunities that is usually a way out of this vicious circle.
Food supply and birth -death rates historically go hand in hand. Has infant mortality gone down over time? It sure has in the Chiang Rai to Keng Tung area, particularly on the Burma side where you meet women who have had as many 10 children. I would speculate that birth rates are above the mere zero growth replacement level which would imply that food supply and cultivated land has to be growing over time or if it is not, offspring must find a livellihood outside of agriculture or the market economy has to be exploited for income.
Anyway, the propaganda campaign in favor of the constitution has already started–even before it’s final version has been approved. The government’s PR people have been erecting billboards and cutouts. And on June 25, I came across the first newspaper advertisements (full-page in Matichon, half-page in Thai Rath), urging people to join forces with their “yes” vote in the referendum so that there might be an election. “Yes” and “elections” are printed in huge letters, suggesting that the election is the main selling point of the the constitution.
The excuse of vote buying is a morally poor man’s way of believing why society does not conform to his political ideals. It is a vain and naive way to accept an outcome against his own choice.
Shame on the leftist leaners who spout corruption and blame it on the rural mass for their perceived lack of education.
What a fascinating discussion. I’m an American veteran of the Vietnam War. I spent a lot of time in rural areas in Northeast Thailand. I’ve been following this story for a while now. My, how things have changed in Thailand in 35 years. I’m working here on rural issues and see some of the same problems in Thailand I see in the US.
A recent poll here shows the next US President will be decided by rural voters. Reading about the politics in Thailand make me homesick to see the country again. I’d have to brush up on my Thai again. It’s been a long time.
Vichai, get into politics then! Because every single party in Thailand cloned Thaksin’s populist policies in the 2005 and October 2006 election campaigns.
Thailand needs a new choice: Vichai’s Anti-Thaksin Voodoo-Buster Party!
Nobody is reacting…. because we all know that it’s utter bullshit.
It’s enough to read the comment of their propaganda bureau (TNA) : “When the construction is finished, the cost of producing electricity at the nuclear power plant will stay at Bt2.01 per unit, lower than the Bt2.05 per unit of the electricity produced by conventional coal-fired power plants.”
Basically, they would like us to believe that they know what will be the price of electricity in… 2020 !
It’s pathetic.
It’s just another toy-idea, like thai authorities have often, that will lead to some committees, sub-panels and a lot of working meetings along with studies, for the next 20 years.
There is another position that Andrew conveniently omitted. The Thaksin-is-My-God position because he pays my paycheck. A few forum contributors in New Mandala, BangkokPundit and similar fall right in this slot.
People like Tosakan who says he loves the 1997 Thai Constitution and all that rule of law b.s., but disregarding Thaksin’s blatant abuses thereof including Thaksin’s extrajudicial killings, must be something more definable as nonsense.
ThaiBloke – Any Thai political party that is no more than a fawning butler service to the Shinawatras do not deserve to be called political, or a party, even! IThai Rak Thai #$#@$ is a maid service for chrissake! (correction)
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Leach revisited
Not to take away anything from “Political Systems of Highland Burma” , but Leach certainly is worth reconsidering. Some Kachins I knew thought that he mis-interpreted the mayu/dama relationship, and I can think of some other areas worth another look.
Nuclear sufficiency
Re Locke’s remark:”Thailand must think of its own national security, which should trump environmental needs at this stage of its development.” I am truly horrified by this sentiment. The greatest risk to national security is present orgy of environmental destruction which will lead to internal displacements and unrest. Too often “national security” is effectively just an investment in stability, but stability becomes your greatest weakness when the ground is shifting under your feet (e.g. demographic change, resources depleted, rainfall patterns shifted etc.). What is needed is an approach of managed dynamic strategic planning and constructive cooperation. “national security” will descend into defending a shrinking pot, and will lead Thailand down the Burma road.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
True enough Srithanonchai . . that without ‘power’ to shield them, either money, tanks or guns, crooks will quickly hang. But men of integrity will have nothing to worry about. Hence, Srithanonchai, should Thaksin Shinawatra worry?
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
Glad we are in agreement Anon that Thaksin’s politics and disbanded political party was mainly voodoo.
Populist policies . . good programs even as ‘campaigned’ or even carried out would still demand LEADERS OF INTEGRITY to be credible. When we have a criminal gang of sort, operating like a mafia to carry out unprecedented massive blatant corruption, and evading taxes to boot, plus extrajudicial killings and mismanagement of the explosive Southern unrest, those TRT policies will appear to be merely voodoo sleight-of-hand tricks, to hide the criminal looting being carried out by Thaksin’s very corrupt gang of TRT corrupts.
With Anon, Patiwat, BangkokPundit, Republican, Tosakan and many similarly inclined rooting still for a totally discredited ThaiRakThai party, despite all the revelations, what would I gain from Thai politics? I heard those 14 million TRT members still pine for their Beloved Leader (don’t they?) despite everything! That is not encouraging . . . that’s too much voodoo for me, no thank you!
I’ll be content with my infrequent forays into New Mandala to reveal liars and deceivers, paid for by Thaksin.
Does Thailand need a senate?
The problem is the rules for the senate are currently wrong. The changes that should be made are beyond me.
However, when the rule states that a person cannot sit in both parliament and senate, the point of the rule is obviously not meant to mean that a husband can sit in the parliament and a wife in the senate.
Until law writers get more precise in their language there will always be people who can get around it.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
How about we ask all political parties to strictly adhere to the rules?
I have seen it first hand up country. They are all as bad as each other. How on earth would you describe any party headed by the dinosaurs Banharn, Chavalit or Sanan?
They may have sold their soul to Taksin, but in their time they have sold their soul to everyone simply to get into the goverment of the day. The difference was that when they followed Taksin he delivered them a landslide. He delievered the local politicians a iron clad chance to rip off everyone. What he expected in return was iron clad loyalty which lasted as he was in power.
I dare any local MP to stand up in Thailand and say what his principles really are other than making sure that he and his friend’s businesses get the biggest piece of the pie afterwards.
The system is still sick whether Taksin is there or not.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
Yes, Jeru. But only those crooks without power, tanks, and guns. 🙁
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
As Gladiator said: We stay together–we’ll survive; we’ll fight each on his own–we will all die. – Srithanonchai
The aphorism that applies to the Thai Rak Thai party courtiers of Thaksin Shinawatra was: “Stay together and we’ll hang together, or, be separately hanged.” Crooks will sooner or later be hanged, together or separately.
Does Thailand need a senate?
To Comment#3
It is 1932 (not 1902).
Democracy comes from real debates and practices that will always involve fussy, entangled details like this. It is a matter of engaging the public in the debates. It is undemocratic when the elites (politicians, military, monarchists) think that they know best — and sadly that’s often the case. By the way, anyone read that news on TOT board and Saprang?
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/23/business/business_30037596.php
http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/topstories.php?id=119629
Does Thailand need a senate?
Sydney,
Yes and now Chirmsak is voting/approving all the junta’s policies. Policy corruption is in the eye of the beneficiary.
Reasonableness, moderation and inanity
NIDA’s self sufficiency: From July 11-12, 2007, NIDA will host an international conference on the topic “Alternative Development and Sufficiency Economy.” The event will take place in one of those typically sufficient, reasonable, and moderate luxury hotels, the Royal Orchid Sheraton.
On “Why Alternative Development”, we will hear Michael Watts, Peter Evans, and Juree Vichit-Vadakan (her Philanthropy and Civil Society Center is the organizer). Chaiwat Wibulswasdi (yes!) will give a talk on “Sufficiency Economy Philosophy and Development”, which will be moderated by — yes! — Chris Baker. Some reflections will be added by — oh ho!! — Amartya Sen. In the afternoon, in the presence of HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindorn, he will give a lecture on “What might Capability Centered Development Mean for 21st Century.” Ammar Siamwalla will add some reflections.
On the 12th, there will be a panel on “Deepening democracy and extending capabilities” by Amita Baviskar and Gianpaolo Baiocci. Chair: Somsak Xuto; discussants: Michael Watts, Danny Unger, and Surichai Wun’Gaeo. The concluding panel will be about “State capacity and promoting alternatives”, featuring Aihwa Ong, Nelson H. H. Graburik, and Peter Evans. Chair: Danny Unger, discussants: Peter Geithner, Walden Bello, and Amara Pongsapich.
Does Thailand need a senate?
Dr Chirmsak Pinthong used to be one of the Senators. He observed that approx. 80 Senators always voted/approved TRT/Thaksin’s policies (policy corruption). These were the same people who are relatives and friends of Thaksin and TRT. In (right) principle, nothig is wrong to have the Senator. But who they are and how to select them become problematic in Thailand in the previous government. That’s why Dr Chirmsak commented that “… history had proved…”.
Upland insufficiency
There is a lot of variation to be accounted for. Is the report available? It would be interesting to see what factors account for this variability.
IMHO Zero growth sustainability philosophies and rural demographics rarely seem go hand in hand. Whenever I think of the sort revisions of mainstream economic thinking like Sufficiency Economy, I immediately think of the **continual unremittant pressure to have babies** on young rural women and also their lack of educational opportunities that is usually a way out of this vicious circle.
Food supply and birth -death rates historically go hand in hand. Has infant mortality gone down over time? It sure has in the Chiang Rai to Keng Tung area, particularly on the Burma side where you meet women who have had as many 10 children. I would speculate that birth rates are above the mere zero growth replacement level which would imply that food supply and cultivated land has to be growing over time or if it is not, offspring must find a livellihood outside of agriculture or the market economy has to be exploited for income.
Does Thailand need a senate?
Anyway, the propaganda campaign in favor of the constitution has already started–even before it’s final version has been approved. The government’s PR people have been erecting billboards and cutouts. And on June 25, I came across the first newspaper advertisements (full-page in Matichon, half-page in Thai Rath), urging people to join forces with their “yes” vote in the referendum so that there might be an election. “Yes” and “elections” are printed in huge letters, suggesting that the election is the main selling point of the the constitution.
What about some political education for the elite?
You are absolutely right Andrew.
The excuse of vote buying is a morally poor man’s way of believing why society does not conform to his political ideals. It is a vain and naive way to accept an outcome against his own choice.
Shame on the leftist leaners who spout corruption and blame it on the rural mass for their perceived lack of education.
Shame on you.
Will rural voters be “confused to death”?
What a fascinating discussion. I’m an American veteran of the Vietnam War. I spent a lot of time in rural areas in Northeast Thailand. I’ve been following this story for a while now. My, how things have changed in Thailand in 35 years. I’m working here on rural issues and see some of the same problems in Thailand I see in the US.
A recent poll here shows the next US President will be decided by rural voters. Reading about the politics in Thailand make me homesick to see the country again. I’d have to brush up on my Thai again. It’s been a long time.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
Vichai, get into politics then! Because every single party in Thailand cloned Thaksin’s populist policies in the 2005 and October 2006 election campaigns.
Thailand needs a new choice: Vichai’s Anti-Thaksin Voodoo-Buster Party!
Nuclear sufficiency
Nobody is reacting…. because we all know that it’s utter bullshit.
It’s enough to read the comment of their propaganda bureau (TNA) : “When the construction is finished, the cost of producing electricity at the nuclear power plant will stay at Bt2.01 per unit, lower than the Bt2.05 per unit of the electricity produced by conventional coal-fired power plants.”
Basically, they would like us to believe that they know what will be the price of electricity in… 2020 !
It’s pathetic.
It’s just another toy-idea, like thai authorities have often, that will lead to some committees, sub-panels and a lot of working meetings along with studies, for the next 20 years.
In other words : a source of income.
Mapping the post-coup academic landscape
There is another position that Andrew conveniently omitted. The Thaksin-is-My-God position because he pays my paycheck. A few forum contributors in New Mandala, BangkokPundit and similar fall right in this slot.
People like Tosakan who says he loves the 1997 Thai Constitution and all that rule of law b.s., but disregarding Thaksin’s blatant abuses thereof including Thaksin’s extrajudicial killings, must be something more definable as nonsense.
Erasing Thaksin’s “anomalies”
ThaiBloke – Any Thai political party that is no more than a fawning butler service to the Shinawatras do not deserve to be called political, or a party, even! IThai Rak Thai #$#@$ is a maid service for chrissake! (correction)