Journalists should also take into consideration spiritual associations of such practices. Condescending views spawned from the modernity paradigm are surely doing more to sink it’s ideal than help keep it afloat.
What would a Karen journalist say of the chicken parmigiana and ale cult (soon to be religion) ?
Newly discovered virus: Partisan Group Think 2007, a viral strain of Orwell’s Newspeak 1984 that quickly fills up your drive (aka brain) with one idea, proclaiming universal unquestioned validity and brings said hard drive to speedy grinding halt if any other idea detected on said drive. Only computers built in America, Australia, and other “true democracies” work, vendor association says, but refuses to demonstrate conclusively that computers built in other countries won’t work just as well, and perhaps even better eventually.
By all accounts Thailand’s South had degenerated into complete anarchy with terrorist cells, thugs and Muslim mafiosi not to mention police and army criminal elements.
But Thailand’s military generals whether before, during or after Thaksin just could not get a handle on the situation.
Funny, all this talk about friendship roads and trade. Sure, in a normal country you would expect that there is a connection. But in Burma? I have seen three of those “major” roads: the Kalay-Imphal (India) road, the Tachilek-Kengtung road and the Lashio road. If you would sit down at one of these with the aim of counting the trucks coming along, you could as well try to do that in your favorite local dead-end street. Well, it’s no secret, if there is any trade going on at all it’s not going along these roads; and the only way to boost trade is to get rid of this government. And before this happens, the roads will probably be washed away by many a monsoon rain.
But yes, it might still be a good thing that they are build anyway.
provides a balanced assessment, acknowledging that terrorism cannot be accepted as to wage war, yet urging people to avoid the polarization and escalation of conflict that it provokes. It’s written by a former research director at the CIA.
>Islam and Christianity are religions
> of peace and tolerance- what a joke
IMHO Karen Armstrong’s “The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (2000)” and her “Short History of Islam” are far more balanced and insightful. The history of the early caliphates seemed a jumble to me until I read her short history. Sufis have always been persecuted, but their writings are certainly profound and tolerant.
Latest report: It has been found that the ThaiDemocracyXP software has also been corrupted due to it’s inability to completely remove one file.
The recommended fix is for users to delete the file named thak.sin, and then restart the system.
There is another elephant in the room that nobody has brought up: The mafia.
The South has always been a hotbed of illegal activities, notably the drug trade, gun running, petro smuggling, and other sorts of things that have to do with making lots of money and breaking the law.
Thai police and military in cahoots with corrupt politicians in the South have always been knee deep in all that criminality.
.
From my own experience dealing with Muslim problems in Central Europe and Palestine, there always seems to be an element to terrorism that has do with things other than fighting for an international caliphate and/or killing the infidels.
When you look at places at Saudi Arabia or Egypt, or Kosova and Chechnya, a lot of the terrorism is not spawned because of their hatred for the infidel, but because those countries are corrupt and are run like mafia states.
A lot of the fighting in Iraq is about controlling economic and political “resources” more than religion.
Also, one has to look at how Bangkok has treated its peripheral provinces. The Chakris used to drag the Malays and Lao to Bangkok and make them their slaves. There has always been rebellion against the center from the periphery going back hundreds of years in Siam/Thailand.
And, when you look at the Philippines and Indonesia over the last 500 years, there has always been a rogue Muslim element fighting for their “freedom.”
The problems in Aceh and Mindanao are ancient problems
, so are the problems in the South.
interesting digressions, all of them; I would like to make just one point: the Basques have certainly suffered Spanish “linguistic imperialism” in the recent past, but not any more -now the autonmy of the government of the Basque Country in educational matters is quite important, and Basque has actually become the “imperialist” language in the region. In my opinion the political situation there is at least as complicated as that in Southern Thailand
Software updates: This may be of interest to Nganadit, Vichai N., Jeru and colleagues. I saw this article in the Thai version of “Wired”:
“Thais are being encouraged to update their mental software because of a number of bugs that have been discovered in the system they have been using since 1949, “RoyMil Feudal 2000”. These bugs have the ability of severely incapacitating the user as well as infecting user networks making them highly susceptible to a number of damaging viruses. A particularly dangerous recent virus which the system has helped spread is Sept19/Roycoup.A, which has led to a widespread shutdown of rational thinking. The most common reported problem is with the PolDevt program repeatedly hanging. Another glitch is that the system produces a proliferation of royal.exe files in your hard drive which quickly corrupt all other working files in your system severely affecting the speed of your machine. These files will be automatically downloaded into computers with which you have contact.
It is thought that this program has been illegally downloaded into the minds of Thai citizens over the last 60 years by the RoyMil software corporation, which gained monopoly control over the mental software market at the time (a competing firm, PeoplesP Soft, was gradually driven out of the market by RoyMil). A case is currently going through the courts challenging the legality of this monopoly.
An earlier European version of this software did once exist but most bugs have been removed over the last 200 years. Software experts expressed surprise at the fact that such outdated software was still being used in Thailand.
The updated software, “ThaiDemocracy XP” has eliminated the following bugs: king.exe, lese majeste.exe, crownprince.maf, crownpropertybureau.maf, privycouncil.maf, sufficiencyeconomy.idi, appointedsenate.wtf?, coup.mil, and monarchy.net. The new program runs extremely fast and efficiently, and unlike the old software can be used by all citizens. Also, unlike much RoyMil software ThaiDemocracy XP is fully compatible with similar software used in other countries. Users have reported huge gains in productivity.
It appears that many Thais hackers have attempted to download the new software only to find that it is incompatible with the networks provided by RoyMil. It has been alleged that RoyMil is deliberately obstructing attempts by users to update to the new software.
Besides Thai consumers it appears that many Western users may are also be victims of RoyMil’s Feudal 2000 software. They are encouraged to update to the new software as soon as possible otherwise they will only be able to operate on RoyMil networks. If left indefinitely Feudal 2000 can lead to a complete corruption of one’s hard drive.”
Reply to #17. We are far apart on many issues, but let me just make a few comments:
You are confusing “dhimmi”, a form of legal status for non-Muslim subjects in premodern Muslim states, and modern day racial discrimination.
My understanding of the situation in Iraq is that, whether under the old Saddam regime or the new Constitution post-Saddam citizens of all religions have equal legal status. If militias are calling for protection money from non-Muslims then such bigotry would therefore be illegal.
Saudi Arabia is admittedly an exceptional case and there is legalized discrimination on a religious basis. But I was careful to say “modern” Muslim states and in terms of social and political development Saudi hardly falls into that category. But even then, many of the Thais and Filipinos who are discriminated against in Saudi are Muslim. So this is racial discrimination – not religious.
The situation in Sudan (put very simplistically) is Arab Muslims persecuting African Muslims. Again, racial discrimination.
“Bumiputra” is a racial category in Malaysia, and the justification of the policy of special treatment (affirmative action to some, discrimination to others) for those with bumiputra status makes absolutely no reference to Islamic legal arguments. Again, racial discrimination, which has emerged out of a very specific historical context, not Islamic legal thinking.
It’s a pity you didn’t go next door to Indonesia, the country with the world’s largest Muslim population, where again, citizens of all religions have equal legal status.
Far be it for me to claim any expertise in Islamic Studies, but I do know that there is an immense amount of scholarship of all hues out there debating these issues, but the only views we hear about in the media are these medieval, scriptural based ones like the one you brought up to represent Islam’s “contribution to the world” – unfairly in my view.
Dawkins is GOD! … a middle aged man who has too many books with fantastic covers to be considered a mere mortal in the football game of world politics.
Just finished Dawkin’s “the God Delusion”. It poors scorn and reason on arguments proclaiming any wisdom in religion. It is in English so please read and a translation into Yawi is needed. Religion sucks and we should not be afraid to say it. Islam and Christianity are religions of peace and tolerance- what a joke
Your reply to my comment contained two of the most common Islamic apologia when confronted with criticism. The first trope that you employed was the “dhimmi doesn’t exist, it’s a relic of the past/Islam believes in the equality of all men, don’t ya know?” feint. You are sadly, sadly mistaken. Why don’t you ask a Filipino or Thai laborer who spent some time in Saudi Arabia, what life was like? Can you build a church, wat, mandir in Saudi Arabia? Is it not true that the penalty for missionary work in Saudi Arabia is death? What is the rate of Qisas (Blood Money) paid for the death of a Muslim man [hint: 100000 riyals]? What’s the rate Qisas for the death of a Hindu woman? [hint:3,333 riyals] And what of oh-so-moderate-Malaysia? The bhumiputra laws? The tearing down of that “teapot” church, because it “offended” Islam?
Do you realize that Christians in Iraq are being forced to pay jiyza to various Muslim militias (both Sunni and Shiite)? Do you remember the Bangkok Post reporting, about 3 to 4 months ago that Southern insurgents were offering Buddhists in the South, the opportunity to pay jiyza in exchange for a green cloth to hang ones doorpost, which would signify dhimmi (i.e. protected status?) Can you name one major school of Islamic jurisprudence that has ruled that the concept of dhimmi has been abrogated?
You know, as a defender and scholar of liberty, that many people in the Islamic world are treated as second-class citizens. You know that dhimmitude is alive and well. Such willful ignorance on your part is dangerous. Do I have to remind you of what’s going on in Sudan? Or do you only identify injustice with the sakdina system?
To address your other point, considering the massive geo-political clout Muslims have in the post-modern era due to an accident of geology, the dhimmi concept of subservience has entered academica, journalism, and the general public; where one must be careful not to mention things like current examples jihad and dhimmitude for fear upsetting the ethos of cultural relativism that serves as a civil religion in many universities and media outlets today.
As for the second trope “Well, you can just cherry-pick quotes from any religious text to support violence! Nyah, nyah, nyah!” I have several comments. The first being, “Did you actually read the passages I mentioned?” If so, why don’t you actually reply to my arguments instead of resorting to vague retorts and insinuations. If not, I suggest you do your homework before coming to class! (As an aside, you still haven’t said anything substantial about my point with linguistic imperialism Hispanic-Americans and their relative lack of violence. What you could have done is brought up the counter-example of Basque nationalists, who also suffer from linguistic imperialism and have been known to use violence for their irredentist goals. That’s how gentlemen and scholars argue, Republican, not through name-calling and insinuation.)
Secondly, violent passages from the Bible or the Tibetan Buddhist Canon are irrelevant to the question of whether Islam is violent. That’s a tu quoque fallacy, and you’re better than that, Republican.
Thirdly, the violent passages in the Bible or other religious texts that I have read do not act as a standing proclamation of war against the whole world. Unlike the Quran, other religious texts (the Torah, the Bible, the Tipitaka, The Vedas, etc) are huge collections of documents, written by different people in different historical contexts. This allows for a great amount of hermeneutic methodologies. The Quran, however, comes exclusively from one source, i.e. Muhammad. All Quranic exegesis can only be understood through the life and deeds of Muhammad. His wars, sexual conquests, and killings are both a reflection and a guide to the meaning of the Quran Added to this, the strict literalism of all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence leaves no room for interpretation for its violent injunctions. In short, all schools of Islam teach that Muhammad was al-isna al-kamil (the perfect man), whose example and teachings are to be followed until the end of time.
Contrast this to other religions. Are Israeli special forces currently hunting down the descendants of Amalek? When was the last time Pope Benedict XVI donned armor (a la Pope Julius II) and rode off to battle for the Papal States?
Finally, why is it when someone like Irshad Manji says the same thing that I did, people of your ilk lap it up like mewling kittens; however, if I call for ijthihad it’s “bigoted misinterpretation”?
As always, I bow to the Buddha in you.
P.S.> I, as a Buddhist, believe that followers of all religions can attain right view if they are truly devoted to a spiritual path. The Lord Buddha defined a valid religion as one that teaches its followers to “do good, avoid evil, and purify the mind.” I do believe, however, that the Eightfold path is the most expeditious path to enlightenment. I also believe the Eightfold path is the only way to Nirvana.
I am not sure about in a room, but in the forest, an elephant is surprisingly difficult to spot.
In regards to comparing the situation in the South with minorities in the north, the social-linguistic analogy does not hold water in any respect. The Southern Malay/Yawi speakers do not represent scattered minority villages as do the northern hilltribe folks. Instead, they represent the dominant group at the provincial level. The local elites are either fellow Yawi speakers or Thai-Chinese who are just as likely to speak a Chinese language as to speak a Tai language. Moreover, they have a viable alternative elite in Malaysia, speaking a shared language not to mention a shared culture.
Up north, the only elite to look up to are the Thais, be they ethnic Thais or Sino-Thais. Ain’t nobody looking up to the Burmese or Lao elites, not even the Lao in Isaan look up towards the Lao elite. Most of the hill folks I know up north are bilingual (often multi-lingual) and conversant in Thai. Those who “tok doi” and go to live in towns speak only Thai and try to assimilate to the only society they know to “look up to.” Parents want their children to speak Thai and the government program up north to teach preschoolers Thai language and culture through the schools run by the Social Welfare Department has been, in my humble opinion, fairly successful in all of their intents (they were originally funded by the CIA to reduce insurgency up north and were inspired by the Head Start programs in the US geared towards pre-school children in very poor urban black neighborhoods in the mid-1960s)
One is forced to ask why any Malay speaker in the border provinces would be impressed by the government in Bangkok when one can easily argue that the Malaysian government has been more adept and more successful in the modern world. Certainly on a personnel level Mahathir was a jerk, certain to offend the “Dhimmi” world, but fellow Dhimmi economists like Steiglitz find him quite admirable in his handling of the Malay economy. Malaysia is slowly moving forward in the modern world where as Thailand stagnates.
So the people down south are unlikely to ever be content with Thai domination regardless of money invested or language policy, or any other social program as they will always be able to look over the border at people just like themselves who live in a country that entices with a more viable, and dare I say, more democratic option. Thailand can not compete.
And all this adds up to a fertile ground down south for the perverted ideas of the Islamic fundamentalists. Now I don’t see the Wahabism/Salafism disappearing as long as the Wahabi continue to be one of the prime beneficiaries of petro-dollars and those good folks from Texas don’t want to alter that equation. So I think the Thais ought to toss out all the social scientists as nothing they are suggesting to alleviate the situation is going to work and bite the bullet and sell the irredentist border provinces to Malaysia thus nipping in the bud the increasing power of the Salafists in the region. The multifaceted battle against this Islamic fundamentalism, which represents the dark side of the force as Yoda would say, is not the battle for Thailand to fight unilaterally.
And to finish my little rant, just what the heck does the crisis in the South have to do with gender issues?
“I find the claim that no-one is talking about Islamic fundamentalism, extremism, and terrorism in the South extraordinary.”
Who is claiming that?
I am claiming ***specifically*** that no external unbiased observer (what an ideal academic could be) is observing what is actually going on. From today’s editorial:
“…neither this government nor the previous one ever clearly identified those behind the spate of killings that has taken about 2,000 lives since 2004.”
Some of these killings have a tit for tat feud like character to them.
Talking about something over and over again without any new data will just result in what is known as “confirmation bias” namely seeing all the theories running around in your head, after the fact, in the data, see Taleb’s Black Swan book, summarized in this podcast: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/04/taleb_on_black.html
Republican: “I find the claim that no-one is talking about Islamic fundamentalism, extremism, and terrorism in the South extraordinary”
I refer you to AW’s post #2 above.
I know it’s a sensitive subject, but it cannot be ignored.
It does need to be handled carefully (and IMHO there is at least one member of the royal family who should bear that in mind.)
I usually steer clear of religious debates but here goes.
While I was a boy of 14 I witnessed extremism first hand. Two older boys in my neighborhood went at each other with knives not only because of mutual animosity and intolerance but also because both would not listen to their own (and other’s’ offerred) common sense.
Sawarin suggests that people who never bothered to understand the great religion would be ill-equipped to understand the ‘root of the problem’. Sawarin and Republican echo the same lament that non-academics should buzz off and let gurus continue on with their reasoned debate and eventually the Southern fire will burn itself off.
Bull!
If only those young (and deperate older men) would realize that religion was only meant to give divine inspiration and not to substitute for common sense, there would be less militancy and terrorism in the world. Common sense is the essence of moderation . . . and why won’t the moderates of Islam scream out their common sense?
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Bound by tradition
… chicken parmigiana and ale culture* rather! No cults here, no.
Bound by tradition
Journalists should also take into consideration spiritual associations of such practices. Condescending views spawned from the modernity paradigm are surely doing more to sink it’s ideal than help keep it afloat.
What would a Karen journalist say of the chicken parmigiana and ale cult (soon to be religion) ?
What about an anti-coup-coup coup?
Newly discovered virus: Partisan Group Think 2007, a viral strain of Orwell’s Newspeak 1984 that quickly fills up your drive (aka brain) with one idea, proclaiming universal unquestioned validity and brings said hard drive to speedy grinding halt if any other idea detected on said drive. Only computers built in America, Australia, and other “true democracies” work, vendor association says, but refuses to demonstrate conclusively that computers built in other countries won’t work just as well, and perhaps even better eventually.
Sticking to the southern script
By all accounts Thailand’s South had degenerated into complete anarchy with terrorist cells, thugs and Muslim mafiosi not to mention police and army criminal elements.
But Thailand’s military generals whether before, during or after Thaksin just could not get a handle on the situation.
Damn ineptitude!
Bangladesh to Burma “friendship” road
Funny, all this talk about friendship roads and trade. Sure, in a normal country you would expect that there is a connection. But in Burma? I have seen three of those “major” roads: the Kalay-Imphal (India) road, the Tachilek-Kengtung road and the Lashio road. If you would sit down at one of these with the aim of counting the trucks coming along, you could as well try to do that in your favorite local dead-end street. Well, it’s no secret, if there is any trade going on at all it’s not going along these roads; and the only way to boost trade is to get rid of this government. And before this happens, the roads will probably be washed away by many a monsoon rain.
But yes, it might still be a good thing that they are build anyway.
Sticking to the southern script
“…I do know that there is an immense amount of scholarship of all hues out there debating these issues…”
Graham Fuller’s book “The Future of Political Islam”
http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/1472/
provides a balanced assessment, acknowledging that terrorism cannot be accepted as to wage war, yet urging people to avoid the polarization and escalation of conflict that it provokes. It’s written by a former research director at the CIA.
>Islam and Christianity are religions
> of peace and tolerance- what a joke
IMHO Karen Armstrong’s “The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (2000)” and her “Short History of Islam” are far more balanced and insightful. The history of the early caliphates seemed a jumble to me until I read her short history. Sufis have always been persecuted, but their writings are certainly profound and tolerant.
What about an anti-coup-coup coup?
Latest report: It has been found that the ThaiDemocracyXP software has also been corrupted due to it’s inability to completely remove one file.
The recommended fix is for users to delete the file named thak.sin, and then restart the system.
Sticking to the southern script
There is another elephant in the room that nobody has brought up: The mafia.
The South has always been a hotbed of illegal activities, notably the drug trade, gun running, petro smuggling, and other sorts of things that have to do with making lots of money and breaking the law.
Thai police and military in cahoots with corrupt politicians in the South have always been knee deep in all that criminality.
.
From my own experience dealing with Muslim problems in Central Europe and Palestine, there always seems to be an element to terrorism that has do with things other than fighting for an international caliphate and/or killing the infidels.
When you look at places at Saudi Arabia or Egypt, or Kosova and Chechnya, a lot of the terrorism is not spawned because of their hatred for the infidel, but because those countries are corrupt and are run like mafia states.
A lot of the fighting in Iraq is about controlling economic and political “resources” more than religion.
Also, one has to look at how Bangkok has treated its peripheral provinces. The Chakris used to drag the Malays and Lao to Bangkok and make them their slaves. There has always been rebellion against the center from the periphery going back hundreds of years in Siam/Thailand.
And, when you look at the Philippines and Indonesia over the last 500 years, there has always been a rogue Muslim element fighting for their “freedom.”
The problems in Aceh and Mindanao are ancient problems
, so are the problems in the South.
Sticking to the southern script
interesting digressions, all of them; I would like to make just one point: the Basques have certainly suffered Spanish “linguistic imperialism” in the recent past, but not any more -now the autonmy of the government of the Basque Country in educational matters is quite important, and Basque has actually become the “imperialist” language in the region. In my opinion the political situation there is at least as complicated as that in Southern Thailand
What about an anti-coup-coup coup?
Software updates: This may be of interest to Nganadit, Vichai N., Jeru and colleagues. I saw this article in the Thai version of “Wired”:
“Thais are being encouraged to update their mental software because of a number of bugs that have been discovered in the system they have been using since 1949, “RoyMil Feudal 2000”. These bugs have the ability of severely incapacitating the user as well as infecting user networks making them highly susceptible to a number of damaging viruses. A particularly dangerous recent virus which the system has helped spread is Sept19/Roycoup.A, which has led to a widespread shutdown of rational thinking. The most common reported problem is with the PolDevt program repeatedly hanging. Another glitch is that the system produces a proliferation of royal.exe files in your hard drive which quickly corrupt all other working files in your system severely affecting the speed of your machine. These files will be automatically downloaded into computers with which you have contact.
It is thought that this program has been illegally downloaded into the minds of Thai citizens over the last 60 years by the RoyMil software corporation, which gained monopoly control over the mental software market at the time (a competing firm, PeoplesP Soft, was gradually driven out of the market by RoyMil). A case is currently going through the courts challenging the legality of this monopoly.
An earlier European version of this software did once exist but most bugs have been removed over the last 200 years. Software experts expressed surprise at the fact that such outdated software was still being used in Thailand.
The updated software, “ThaiDemocracy XP” has eliminated the following bugs: king.exe, lese majeste.exe, crownprince.maf, crownpropertybureau.maf, privycouncil.maf, sufficiencyeconomy.idi, appointedsenate.wtf?, coup.mil, and monarchy.net. The new program runs extremely fast and efficiently, and unlike the old software can be used by all citizens. Also, unlike much RoyMil software ThaiDemocracy XP is fully compatible with similar software used in other countries. Users have reported huge gains in productivity.
It appears that many Thais hackers have attempted to download the new software only to find that it is incompatible with the networks provided by RoyMil. It has been alleged that RoyMil is deliberately obstructing attempts by users to update to the new software.
Besides Thai consumers it appears that many Western users may are also be victims of RoyMil’s Feudal 2000 software. They are encouraged to update to the new software as soon as possible otherwise they will only be able to operate on RoyMil networks. If left indefinitely Feudal 2000 can lead to a complete corruption of one’s hard drive.”
Sticking to the southern script
Reply to #17. We are far apart on many issues, but let me just make a few comments:
You are confusing “dhimmi”, a form of legal status for non-Muslim subjects in premodern Muslim states, and modern day racial discrimination.
My understanding of the situation in Iraq is that, whether under the old Saddam regime or the new Constitution post-Saddam citizens of all religions have equal legal status. If militias are calling for protection money from non-Muslims then such bigotry would therefore be illegal.
Saudi Arabia is admittedly an exceptional case and there is legalized discrimination on a religious basis. But I was careful to say “modern” Muslim states and in terms of social and political development Saudi hardly falls into that category. But even then, many of the Thais and Filipinos who are discriminated against in Saudi are Muslim. So this is racial discrimination – not religious.
The situation in Sudan (put very simplistically) is Arab Muslims persecuting African Muslims. Again, racial discrimination.
“Bumiputra” is a racial category in Malaysia, and the justification of the policy of special treatment (affirmative action to some, discrimination to others) for those with bumiputra status makes absolutely no reference to Islamic legal arguments. Again, racial discrimination, which has emerged out of a very specific historical context, not Islamic legal thinking.
It’s a pity you didn’t go next door to Indonesia, the country with the world’s largest Muslim population, where again, citizens of all religions have equal legal status.
Far be it for me to claim any expertise in Islamic Studies, but I do know that there is an immense amount of scholarship of all hues out there debating these issues, but the only views we hear about in the media are these medieval, scriptural based ones like the one you brought up to represent Islam’s “contribution to the world” – unfairly in my view.
Sticking to the southern script
Dawkins is GOD! … a middle aged man who has too many books with fantastic covers to be considered a mere mortal in the football game of world politics.
Sticking to the southern script
Just finished Dawkin’s “the God Delusion”. It poors scorn and reason on arguments proclaiming any wisdom in religion. It is in English so please read and a translation into Yawi is needed. Religion sucks and we should not be afraid to say it. Islam and Christianity are religions of peace and tolerance- what a joke
Sticking to the southern script
My dear Republican, please allow me a rebuttal.
Your reply to my comment contained two of the most common Islamic apologia when confronted with criticism. The first trope that you employed was the “dhimmi doesn’t exist, it’s a relic of the past/Islam believes in the equality of all men, don’t ya know?” feint. You are sadly, sadly mistaken. Why don’t you ask a Filipino or Thai laborer who spent some time in Saudi Arabia, what life was like? Can you build a church, wat, mandir in Saudi Arabia? Is it not true that the penalty for missionary work in Saudi Arabia is death? What is the rate of Qisas (Blood Money) paid for the death of a Muslim man [hint: 100000 riyals]? What’s the rate Qisas for the death of a Hindu woman? [hint:3,333 riyals] And what of oh-so-moderate-Malaysia? The bhumiputra laws? The tearing down of that “teapot” church, because it “offended” Islam?
Do you realize that Christians in Iraq are being forced to pay jiyza to various Muslim militias (both Sunni and Shiite)? Do you remember the Bangkok Post reporting, about 3 to 4 months ago that Southern insurgents were offering Buddhists in the South, the opportunity to pay jiyza in exchange for a green cloth to hang ones doorpost, which would signify dhimmi (i.e. protected status?) Can you name one major school of Islamic jurisprudence that has ruled that the concept of dhimmi has been abrogated?
You know, as a defender and scholar of liberty, that many people in the Islamic world are treated as second-class citizens. You know that dhimmitude is alive and well. Such willful ignorance on your part is dangerous. Do I have to remind you of what’s going on in Sudan? Or do you only identify injustice with the sakdina system?
To address your other point, considering the massive geo-political clout Muslims have in the post-modern era due to an accident of geology, the dhimmi concept of subservience has entered academica, journalism, and the general public; where one must be careful not to mention things like current examples jihad and dhimmitude for fear upsetting the ethos of cultural relativism that serves as a civil religion in many universities and media outlets today.
As for the second trope “Well, you can just cherry-pick quotes from any religious text to support violence! Nyah, nyah, nyah!” I have several comments. The first being, “Did you actually read the passages I mentioned?” If so, why don’t you actually reply to my arguments instead of resorting to vague retorts and insinuations. If not, I suggest you do your homework before coming to class! (As an aside, you still haven’t said anything substantial about my point with linguistic imperialism Hispanic-Americans and their relative lack of violence. What you could have done is brought up the counter-example of Basque nationalists, who also suffer from linguistic imperialism and have been known to use violence for their irredentist goals. That’s how gentlemen and scholars argue, Republican, not through name-calling and insinuation.)
Secondly, violent passages from the Bible or the Tibetan Buddhist Canon are irrelevant to the question of whether Islam is violent. That’s a tu quoque fallacy, and you’re better than that, Republican.
Thirdly, the violent passages in the Bible or other religious texts that I have read do not act as a standing proclamation of war against the whole world. Unlike the Quran, other religious texts (the Torah, the Bible, the Tipitaka, The Vedas, etc) are huge collections of documents, written by different people in different historical contexts. This allows for a great amount of hermeneutic methodologies. The Quran, however, comes exclusively from one source, i.e. Muhammad. All Quranic exegesis can only be understood through the life and deeds of Muhammad. His wars, sexual conquests, and killings are both a reflection and a guide to the meaning of the Quran Added to this, the strict literalism of all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence leaves no room for interpretation for its violent injunctions. In short, all schools of Islam teach that Muhammad was al-isna al-kamil (the perfect man), whose example and teachings are to be followed until the end of time.
Contrast this to other religions. Are Israeli special forces currently hunting down the descendants of Amalek? When was the last time Pope Benedict XVI donned armor (a la Pope Julius II) and rode off to battle for the Papal States?
Finally, why is it when someone like Irshad Manji says the same thing that I did, people of your ilk lap it up like mewling kittens; however, if I call for ijthihad it’s “bigoted misinterpretation”?
As always, I bow to the Buddha in you.
P.S.> I, as a Buddhist, believe that followers of all religions can attain right view if they are truly devoted to a spiritual path. The Lord Buddha defined a valid religion as one that teaches its followers to “do good, avoid evil, and purify the mind.” I do believe, however, that the Eightfold path is the most expeditious path to enlightenment. I also believe the Eightfold path is the only way to Nirvana.
Sticking to the southern script
I am not sure about in a room, but in the forest, an elephant is surprisingly difficult to spot.
In regards to comparing the situation in the South with minorities in the north, the social-linguistic analogy does not hold water in any respect. The Southern Malay/Yawi speakers do not represent scattered minority villages as do the northern hilltribe folks. Instead, they represent the dominant group at the provincial level. The local elites are either fellow Yawi speakers or Thai-Chinese who are just as likely to speak a Chinese language as to speak a Tai language. Moreover, they have a viable alternative elite in Malaysia, speaking a shared language not to mention a shared culture.
Up north, the only elite to look up to are the Thais, be they ethnic Thais or Sino-Thais. Ain’t nobody looking up to the Burmese or Lao elites, not even the Lao in Isaan look up towards the Lao elite. Most of the hill folks I know up north are bilingual (often multi-lingual) and conversant in Thai. Those who “tok doi” and go to live in towns speak only Thai and try to assimilate to the only society they know to “look up to.” Parents want their children to speak Thai and the government program up north to teach preschoolers Thai language and culture through the schools run by the Social Welfare Department has been, in my humble opinion, fairly successful in all of their intents (they were originally funded by the CIA to reduce insurgency up north and were inspired by the Head Start programs in the US geared towards pre-school children in very poor urban black neighborhoods in the mid-1960s)
One is forced to ask why any Malay speaker in the border provinces would be impressed by the government in Bangkok when one can easily argue that the Malaysian government has been more adept and more successful in the modern world. Certainly on a personnel level Mahathir was a jerk, certain to offend the “Dhimmi” world, but fellow Dhimmi economists like Steiglitz find him quite admirable in his handling of the Malay economy. Malaysia is slowly moving forward in the modern world where as Thailand stagnates.
So the people down south are unlikely to ever be content with Thai domination regardless of money invested or language policy, or any other social program as they will always be able to look over the border at people just like themselves who live in a country that entices with a more viable, and dare I say, more democratic option. Thailand can not compete.
And all this adds up to a fertile ground down south for the perverted ideas of the Islamic fundamentalists. Now I don’t see the Wahabism/Salafism disappearing as long as the Wahabi continue to be one of the prime beneficiaries of petro-dollars and those good folks from Texas don’t want to alter that equation. So I think the Thais ought to toss out all the social scientists as nothing they are suggesting to alleviate the situation is going to work and bite the bullet and sell the irredentist border provinces to Malaysia thus nipping in the bud the increasing power of the Salafists in the region. The multifaceted battle against this Islamic fundamentalism, which represents the dark side of the force as Yoda would say, is not the battle for Thailand to fight unilaterally.
And to finish my little rant, just what the heck does the crisis in the South have to do with gender issues?
What about an anti-coup-coup coup?
la-LA-la-laaa–la-LA
Sticking to the southern script
“I find the claim that no-one is talking about Islamic fundamentalism, extremism, and terrorism in the South extraordinary.”
Who is claiming that?
I am claiming ***specifically*** that no external unbiased observer (what an ideal academic could be) is observing what is actually going on. From today’s editorial:
“…neither this government nor the previous one ever clearly identified those behind the spate of killings that has taken about 2,000 lives since 2004.”
Some of these killings have a tit for tat feud like character to them.
Talking about something over and over again without any new data will just result in what is known as “confirmation bias” namely seeing all the theories running around in your head, after the fact, in the data, see Taleb’s Black Swan book, summarized in this podcast:
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/04/taleb_on_black.html
Sticking to the southern script
Republican: “I find the claim that no-one is talking about Islamic fundamentalism, extremism, and terrorism in the South extraordinary”
I refer you to AW’s post #2 above.
I know it’s a sensitive subject, but it cannot be ignored.
It does need to be handled carefully (and IMHO there is at least one member of the royal family who should bear that in mind.)
Sticking to the southern script
Please elaborate your theory of “common sense”.
Sticking to the southern script
I usually steer clear of religious debates but here goes.
While I was a boy of 14 I witnessed extremism first hand. Two older boys in my neighborhood went at each other with knives not only because of mutual animosity and intolerance but also because both would not listen to their own (and other’s’ offerred) common sense.
Sawarin suggests that people who never bothered to understand the great religion would be ill-equipped to understand the ‘root of the problem’. Sawarin and Republican echo the same lament that non-academics should buzz off and let gurus continue on with their reasoned debate and eventually the Southern fire will burn itself off.
Bull!
If only those young (and deperate older men) would realize that religion was only meant to give divine inspiration and not to substitute for common sense, there would be less militancy and terrorism in the world. Common sense is the essence of moderation . . . and why won’t the moderates of Islam scream out their common sense?