nganadeeleg: You are welcome. BTW, in Krungthep Thurakit, May 2, p. 19, there was a long article on the election system, mainly trying to explain what impact the proportional system would have had. However, the seat calculations given seem to be incorrect.
In that article, it is assumed that the votes cast for Mahachon would have counted — after all, you do not need to apply a 5% threshold or a minimum of 3 constituency MPs.
Under this condition, TRT’s majority would have been reduced to about 321-179 (from the initial 377-123, or 336-166 without Mahachon).
Note that the speakers will be in London as part of the Surayud government’s international public relations campaign. It is an activity in the context of the government’s Committee on Public Relations in the Time of Crisis and Pro-active Public Relations (“War room”). They will also visit Germany. There was a brief note on this in Matichon (April 22, 2007) by Khun Prasarn, the spokesperson of that committee. I did not know, though, that Kavi would join them, but it does not surprise me a bit.
If the coup that ousted Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai government was “welcomed by most citizens” then why stage a coup at all when a general election was only a month away? The obvious reason was that Thaksin actually had the support of “most citizens” and his government was going to be returned at the election. So a coup was the only way to get rid of him.
Burma has been pretty stable over the past few decades–not the sort of stablity we like, though. Same for Singapore.
Without clearly conceptualizing the issue of “stability” and determining what the dependent variable means and what the independent variables are, this will remain a ghost debate.
Tosakan said “What evidence is there that the monarchy is a force of stability in Thailand?”
The king’s still on the throne, so that in itself is a form of stability (so far).
Your a student of history so you should have quite a bit of knowledge about the behaviour of the politicians in Thailand – which ones provided stability?
Are there any stable, truly democratic countries in the region?
Aiontay is, of course, right on the money with his description of non-martial uses of Kachin swords.
Amateur,
The men in snapshot 6 are, as you surmise, the ritual leaders of the Manau. They are central to the festivities and are involved in the formation dancing from beginning to end. If New Mandala readers are interested, I may make a post devoted to them in coming days.
Thanks Nich for this nice post!
The two men in the snapshot 6 however look quite bizarre, rather like members of Sioux tribe. Is that a shaman dress? I haven’t seen this on any pictoral account on the Jingpo/Kachin…
Tosakan: “How exactly does a pro-junta symposium act as a it counter-weight to full page ads in the Wall Street Journal?”
In an ideal world there would actually be scholars researching and teaching Southeast Asian history in western research universities.
There is at ANU I know, but for instance at Stanford University University where I went to graduate school, there are none that I know of. Other universities, like nearby UC Berkeley, get obsessed with a particular country like Vietnam and seem to forget about all the other ones in Southeast Asia. University of Michigan and Cornell seem to be the only ones with balance in the United States.
I admit the blurb for the talk at the Asia Society is pretty pitiful which brings up another issue, the pitiful publishing record, in general, of academics studying Southeast Asia. (Not Andrew Walker though whose name I now recognise everywhere) When I write my papers on Burma’s history I still have to refer to Harvey’s 1925 history of Burma which hasn’t been replaced in more than 80 years? Pitiful.
As an expert with over 30 years in the country the speaker has absolutely nothing online that I can see, which is pretty pitiful also. One day this will change when a bunch of internet savvy young people become more active.
There is a vast amount of ignorance in the west about Thailand and Burma and it was exploited during the last two weeks by powerful drug companies and their PR firms. The blurb isn’t really enough to tell what he actually talked about.
I will refrain from repeating my criticism that is by now, no doubt, tedious to many readers on this blog about the support the anti-democratic monarchy receives both directly and indirectly from international academic institutions (The Asia Foundation now joins the list) and make just one basic, logical point (but this is Thai Studies, so one must take nothing for granted):
If the coup that ousted Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai government was “welcomed by most citizens” then why stage a coup at all when a general election was only a month away? The obvious reason was that Thaksin actually had the support of “most citizens” and his government was going to be returned at the election. So a coup was the only way to get rid of him.
How to make the coup look as if it was “welcomed”? Paint it in yellow, hang the King’s picture above the junta, and make sure you have a lese majeste law and a god-king cult.
Sorry, can’t resist another point from the seminar blurb:
“…Has the coup in fact been УgoodФ for Thai democracy, and will the new constitution help ensure the coupТs promises of ending political divisiveness, corruption, and the violence in southern Thailand?…”
Seriously, these are questions one must actually ask as if one didn’t already know the answer?!
An “expert”, “with over 30 years’ experience in the country”, “widely published”?!
If James Klein actually wrote that blurb, he really knows next to nothing about Thailand.
John-
How exactly does a pro-junta symposium act as a it counter-weight to full page ads in the Wall Street Journal?
Symposium on Thai democracy and an ad by a non-profit advocating for protecting of US intellectual property are two different things
By the way, Thailand has been ripping off US IP for decades. Go to any market, any street corner, and the evidence is staring you in the face, and the US ambassador even stated that this priority watch spat is about Hollywood movies more than about Big Pharma.
But John, I do applaud you for your courageous stance, however, where you side with a feudal royalist elite and a military junta.
What evidence is there that the monarchy is a force of stability in Thailand? Is decades of royalist propaganda evidence? As a social science, you should know better.
In the last 75 years, countless coups, military dictatorships, and ripped up constitutions, with the monarchy right in the middle of the chaos most of the time mixing it up, and you call that stability?
There has been violent political anarchy occurring non-stop during his reign(upcountry revolts, communist insurgencies, many political assassinations) and it is going on right now in the South. 166 school arsons and 2100 dead in a few short years is not a good record.
Lastly, this king has been on the throne for sixty years. The fact that he is reigning while yet another coup happens during the twilight of his career should tell you that his reign has not been good for Thailand’s political stability or its democratic/political development.
All right, then. Let’s do away once and for all with this chimera “constitution, citizens, and democracy” and let’s reintroduce absoloute monarchy to Thailand right away. Let’s be daring and declare that 1932 was a grave mistake! All this, of course, in celebration of His Majesty the King’s 80ths birthday anniversary! I have already stocked up to good number of all sorts of yellow shirts, since this will be the official Thai color from now on. Dr. Pangloss will get the well-paid job of convincing all those farang who still have doubts. The incurable amongst them will be considered farang khi nok, close to lese majeste, a disgrace to Thai culture, and deported. We don’t want to be royalist Sissies any longer. Time has come to return to our roots! Chaiyo!
Well, at least he’ll be acting as a counter-weight to the full page ads in the Wall Street journal sponsored by Big Pharma in the US that depict Thailand as “lurching towards Burma,” essentially Thailand bashing.
It is not half as bad as some American PR experts would like to paint it, for their clients, of course.
Under the next written constitution, the extent of military influence is certainly being contested, an you could well argue that it should be zero, but since HMK and the institution of kingship is probably what keeps the country from breaking into violent political anarchy, and pieces, and the institution of kingship involves the military (Pasuk and Baker’s History of Thailand expresses it best, perhaps), some military influence is going to exist. Like Royalists have argued Thailand has long had one over-riding constitution, that has lead to relative political stability and prosperity over the long-run.
The New Mandala blog does a good job of depicting the opposition, in a plural society, in which power is contested by different groups. which is “good for Thai democracy.” Sorry for being Dr. Pangloss here. And I dare say the military has evolved also since 1992, with this non-violent coup, also probably due to the influence of HMK, and the notion of doing honour to one’s King.
Besides contrafactually stating what “most Thai citizens” thought, the announcement also manages to include a phrase normally reserved for governments “installed” by the military. Maybe, somebody should tell the “M.L.” author, that Thaksin came to power in democratic (as far as this label applies in Thailand) elections, and that the Surayud government was “installed” by the military.
One wonders whether this announcement reflects the Asia Foundation’s or Jim Klein’s position. In any case, it reflects poorly on them.
It should be pointed out that the nhtu- or “sword” has uses beyond warfare. It can be used for quite mundane purposes, like cutting up chicken. I have two, one a gift, and the other one I bought in the market in Maymyo. The Maymyo “sword” is great for wood working; I was doing some rough carving with it a couple of days ago.
And there is a marital as well as a martial side to the nhtu as well. The more decorated swords are given to the husband by his wife, rather like a wedding ring. In addtion, guns, swords and even spears still have ritual importance in terms of gift giving, as Leach described. A Kachin living in the US told me of his marriage to a Kachin woman also living in the US, and part of his bride price included spears.
to Chama: My review is at post #33 (no mention of Thaksin as far as I can see ! )
The previous comments regarding Thaksin date back to early December when there were several discussions, across a number of threads, regarding the merits or otherwise of Thaksin and also why he still had support, including from Andrew.
I have also been involved in an ongoing discussion with Patiwat regarding the Ample Rich transactions, nominees and tax havens etc over several threads on New Mandala and also over at Bankgkok Pundit’s site and Fonzi’s (Tosakan’s) site, Thailand Jumped the Shark.
As for being too emotional, don’t worry about that – it’s only a hobby to me!
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Back to the 1970s
nganadeeleg: You are welcome. BTW, in Krungthep Thurakit, May 2, p. 19, there was a long article on the election system, mainly trying to explain what impact the proportional system would have had. However, the seat calculations given seem to be incorrect.
In that article, it is assumed that the votes cast for Mahachon would have counted — after all, you do not need to apply a 5% threshold or a minimum of 3 constituency MPs.
Under this condition, TRT’s majority would have been reduced to about 321-179 (from the initial 377-123, or 336-166 without Mahachon).
English version of new constitution
Amateur:
1997 Constitution: http://www.krisdika.go.th/about.jsp?head=3
1991 Constitution: http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/b05-b.htm
Back to the 1970s
Thanks, Srithanonchai – Somehow I missed your reply until now.
“As with all proportional systems, it most adequately translates the voters’ party preferences into seats”
That sounds good to me.
Thailand after the coup: Event at SOAS
Note that the speakers will be in London as part of the Surayud government’s international public relations campaign. It is an activity in the context of the government’s Committee on Public Relations in the Time of Crisis and Pro-active Public Relations (“War room”). They will also visit Germany. There was a brief note on this in Matichon (April 22, 2007) by Khun Prasarn, the spokesperson of that committee. I did not know, though, that Kavi would join them, but it does not surprise me a bit.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
If the coup that ousted Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai government was “welcomed by most citizens” then why stage a coup at all when a general election was only a month away? The obvious reason was that Thaksin actually had the support of “most citizens” and his government was going to be returned at the election. So a coup was the only way to get rid of him.
Exactly!
Has the coup been good for democracy?
For James Klein online see his overview on the 1997 constituion at
http://www.asiafoundation.org/Publications/workingpapers.html#8
Burma has been pretty stable over the past few decades–not the sort of stablity we like, though. Same for Singapore.
Without clearly conceptualizing the issue of “stability” and determining what the dependent variable means and what the independent variables are, this will remain a ghost debate.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Tosakan said “What evidence is there that the monarchy is a force of stability in Thailand?”
The king’s still on the throne, so that in itself is a form of stability (so far).
Your a student of history so you should have quite a bit of knowledge about the behaviour of the politicians in Thailand – which ones provided stability?
Are there any stable, truly democratic countries in the region?
Guns and other weapons at a Manau festival
Aiontay is, of course, right on the money with his description of non-martial uses of Kachin swords.
Amateur,
The men in snapshot 6 are, as you surmise, the ritual leaders of the Manau. They are central to the festivities and are involved in the formation dancing from beginning to end. If New Mandala readers are interested, I may make a post devoted to them in coming days.
Best wishes to all.
Guns and other weapons at a Manau festival
Thanks Nich for this nice post!
The two men in the snapshot 6 however look quite bizarre, rather like members of Sioux tribe. Is that a shaman dress? I haven’t seen this on any pictoral account on the Jingpo/Kachin…
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Was Thaksin ‘good for democracy’ ?
Has the coup been good for democracy?
“What evidence is there that the monarchy is a force of stability in Thailand?”
That Thailand is not like Burma.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Tosakan: “How exactly does a pro-junta symposium act as a it counter-weight to full page ads in the Wall Street Journal?”
In an ideal world there would actually be scholars researching and teaching Southeast Asian history in western research universities.
There is at ANU I know, but for instance at Stanford University University where I went to graduate school, there are none that I know of. Other universities, like nearby UC Berkeley, get obsessed with a particular country like Vietnam and seem to forget about all the other ones in Southeast Asia. University of Michigan and Cornell seem to be the only ones with balance in the United States.
I admit the blurb for the talk at the Asia Society is pretty pitiful which brings up another issue, the pitiful publishing record, in general, of academics studying Southeast Asia. (Not Andrew Walker though whose name I now recognise everywhere) When I write my papers on Burma’s history I still have to refer to Harvey’s 1925 history of Burma which hasn’t been replaced in more than 80 years? Pitiful.
As an expert with over 30 years in the country the speaker has absolutely nothing online that I can see, which is pretty pitiful also. One day this will change when a bunch of internet savvy young people become more active.
There is a vast amount of ignorance in the west about Thailand and Burma and it was exploited during the last two weeks by powerful drug companies and their PR firms. The blurb isn’t really enough to tell what he actually talked about.
English version of new constitution
Is there any English version of previous constitutions available online?
Has the coup been good for democracy?
I will refrain from repeating my criticism that is by now, no doubt, tedious to many readers on this blog about the support the anti-democratic monarchy receives both directly and indirectly from international academic institutions (The Asia Foundation now joins the list) and make just one basic, logical point (but this is Thai Studies, so one must take nothing for granted):
If the coup that ousted Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai government was “welcomed by most citizens” then why stage a coup at all when a general election was only a month away? The obvious reason was that Thaksin actually had the support of “most citizens” and his government was going to be returned at the election. So a coup was the only way to get rid of him.
How to make the coup look as if it was “welcomed”? Paint it in yellow, hang the King’s picture above the junta, and make sure you have a lese majeste law and a god-king cult.
Sorry, can’t resist another point from the seminar blurb:
“…Has the coup in fact been УgoodФ for Thai democracy, and will the new constitution help ensure the coupТs promises of ending political divisiveness, corruption, and the violence in southern Thailand?…”
Seriously, these are questions one must actually ask as if one didn’t already know the answer?!
An “expert”, “with over 30 years’ experience in the country”, “widely published”?!
Has the coup been good for democracy?
I absolutely agree with Srithanochai.
If James Klein actually wrote that blurb, he really knows next to nothing about Thailand.
John-
How exactly does a pro-junta symposium act as a it counter-weight to full page ads in the Wall Street Journal?
Symposium on Thai democracy and an ad by a non-profit advocating for protecting of US intellectual property are two different things
By the way, Thailand has been ripping off US IP for decades. Go to any market, any street corner, and the evidence is staring you in the face, and the US ambassador even stated that this priority watch spat is about Hollywood movies more than about Big Pharma.
But John, I do applaud you for your courageous stance, however, where you side with a feudal royalist elite and a military junta.
What evidence is there that the monarchy is a force of stability in Thailand? Is decades of royalist propaganda evidence? As a social science, you should know better.
In the last 75 years, countless coups, military dictatorships, and ripped up constitutions, with the monarchy right in the middle of the chaos most of the time mixing it up, and you call that stability?
There has been violent political anarchy occurring non-stop during his reign(upcountry revolts, communist insurgencies, many political assassinations) and it is going on right now in the South. 166 school arsons and 2100 dead in a few short years is not a good record.
Lastly, this king has been on the throne for sixty years. The fact that he is reigning while yet another coup happens during the twilight of his career should tell you that his reign has not been good for Thailand’s political stability or its democratic/political development.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
All right, then. Let’s do away once and for all with this chimera “constitution, citizens, and democracy” and let’s reintroduce absoloute monarchy to Thailand right away. Let’s be daring and declare that 1932 was a grave mistake! All this, of course, in celebration of His Majesty the King’s 80ths birthday anniversary! I have already stocked up to good number of all sorts of yellow shirts, since this will be the official Thai color from now on. Dr. Pangloss will get the well-paid job of convincing all those farang who still have doubts. The incurable amongst them will be considered farang khi nok, close to lese majeste, a disgrace to Thai culture, and deported. We don’t want to be royalist Sissies any longer. Time has come to return to our roots! Chaiyo!
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Well, at least he’ll be acting as a counter-weight to the full page ads in the Wall Street journal sponsored by Big Pharma in the US that depict Thailand as “lurching towards Burma,” essentially Thailand bashing.
It is not half as bad as some American PR experts would like to paint it, for their clients, of course.
Under the next written constitution, the extent of military influence is certainly being contested, an you could well argue that it should be zero, but since HMK and the institution of kingship is probably what keeps the country from breaking into violent political anarchy, and pieces, and the institution of kingship involves the military (Pasuk and Baker’s History of Thailand expresses it best, perhaps), some military influence is going to exist. Like Royalists have argued Thailand has long had one over-riding constitution, that has lead to relative political stability and prosperity over the long-run.
The New Mandala blog does a good job of depicting the opposition, in a plural society, in which power is contested by different groups. which is “good for Thai democracy.” Sorry for being Dr. Pangloss here. And I dare say the military has evolved also since 1992, with this non-violent coup, also probably due to the influence of HMK, and the notion of doing honour to one’s King.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Besides contrafactually stating what “most Thai citizens” thought, the announcement also manages to include a phrase normally reserved for governments “installed” by the military. Maybe, somebody should tell the “M.L.” author, that Thaksin came to power in democratic (as far as this label applies in Thailand) elections, and that the Surayud government was “installed” by the military.
One wonders whether this announcement reflects the Asia Foundation’s or Jim Klein’s position. In any case, it reflects poorly on them.
Guns and other weapons at a Manau festival
It should be pointed out that the nhtu- or “sword” has uses beyond warfare. It can be used for quite mundane purposes, like cutting up chicken. I have two, one a gift, and the other one I bought in the market in Maymyo. The Maymyo “sword” is great for wood working; I was doing some rough carving with it a couple of days ago.
And there is a marital as well as a martial side to the nhtu as well. The more decorated swords are given to the husband by his wife, rather like a wedding ring. In addtion, guns, swords and even spears still have ritual importance in terms of gift giving, as Leach described. A Kachin living in the US told me of his marriage to a Kachin woman also living in the US, and part of his bride price included spears.
The King Never Smiles?
to Chama: My review is at post #33 (no mention of Thaksin as far as I can see ! )
The previous comments regarding Thaksin date back to early December when there were several discussions, across a number of threads, regarding the merits or otherwise of Thaksin and also why he still had support, including from Andrew.
I have also been involved in an ongoing discussion with Patiwat regarding the Ample Rich transactions, nominees and tax havens etc over several threads on New Mandala and also over at Bankgkok Pundit’s site and Fonzi’s (Tosakan’s) site, Thailand Jumped the Shark.
As for being too emotional, don’t worry about that – it’s only a hobby to me!