Comments

  1. thanakarn says:

    Why should people presume that only the educated have a monopoly on graft, corruption and criminal misdeeds?

    The percentage of criminal minds are more likely nearly the same for the population of educated as well as the uneducated, for the rich as well as the poor. Many in this forum have already admitted as much that many of those who claim to be ‘poor’ are probably much better off than they let on . . so they can chisel more from the unwary gjuillible ‘good at hearts’, or, from equally corrupt politicians ready to greasy their ready open palms in exchange for their vote.

    The constitutional penalty for selling the vote should be the electric chair!

    I am only half-jesting. But this culture of corruption long ago practised by politicians/political parties for many decades but most recently more blatantly, massively and ingenously employed by Thaksin Shinawatra as his cornerstone ideology (we remember his ‘corruption is OK’ radio sermons to the poor) to gain his mandate to rule will totally corrupt any virtuous aspiration written in the Thai constitution.

    The Thai constitutional reformers must clearly devote at least one paragraph to describe in no uncertain terms that: (a) the vote is a sacred power entrusted upon a citizen, (b) to misuse this sacred power of the vote by selling it or exchanging it for favors is a criminal offense and would be severely punished, and (c) both the buyer of the vote and the seller of the vote would lose their constitutional right for _____ years if found guilty of this constitutional offense.

    Once this paragraph is added to the Constitution, at every election this paragraph should be required to be added to any election billboard or posters by any political candidate in Thailand, and, all calling cards or handbills that politial candidates distribute during this election must be required to include this one special paragraph of the Thai constitution.

  2. saraburian says:

    I meant to say:
    Should there be any future intervention, we will have NO non-violent exit. We Thais should learn how to live without the intervention of you-know-who.

  3. saraburian says:

    Exactly, Taxi Driver,
    #20 is the most likely scenario – no serious immediate chaos/bloodshet but it is so fragile in the longer term, given a recent bad precedent set by the CNS. Should there be any future intervention, we will have non-violent exit. We Thais should learn how to live without the intervention of you-know-who.

  4. Srithanonchai says:

    P.S.: For a very brief overview on “Soziale Marktwirtschaft” see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy. By the way, the ideas of “sufficiency” and “moderation” were taught to me from early childhood on as part of a general protestant approach to life (it has thus become an intrinsic part of my worldview). So, the model can’t be that “Thai” either, or, perhaps, Germany is more Thai than I thought. Or the king has borrowed more from his western upbringing than we thought, given his approach to Kingship. It would be interesting further to explore the origins of his ideas (in case people have some spare time).

  5. Srithanonchai says:

    Reading what, according to the good general Surayud, characterizes “sufficiency economy,” followed by his statement, “the importance of which is only now becoming recognized around the world” really puzzles me. After all, in Germany, we have been practicing what is called “social market economy” with just the same characteristics, but a lot more economic-theoretical sophistication, for the past almost 60 years. Ngong jing jing na ja settakit pho phiang maithueng arai nae yak ru muenkan.

  6. Taxi Driver says:

    Heres a scenario that doesn’t divide the nation: Bhumipol passes away. V. is installed as new King. Populace docilely accepts it (so does Sirindthorn). Full stop. In fact, this is probably the most likely scenario.

    BUT the problem emerges later: the new constitution promulgated by the CNS is soooo pro-military (e.g. senate to be appointed by CNS and have veto power over lower house, etc etc.). Politicians (led by Chavalit) and urbanites (this time not wearing yellow) take to the streets in protest. CNS cracks down and hundreds of people are shot dead along Rachadamneon. This time the people don’t have Bhumipol to call on. Will they call on King Vachiralongkorn to intervene? Will he? Can he? Which side will be align himself with?

    The one thing I hope the CNS generals know and appreciate is this: Thailand is much more developed than Burma and any attempt by the CNS to enscone themselves in power indefinitely a la Burma’s SLORC / SPDC will cost many lives and ultimately fail.

  7. Nicholas Farrelly says:

    Hi Burmese student,
    I am just as puzzled: I was also unaware of this group before its statement. Of course, the creation, renaming and refolding of \”civil society\” groups (or whatever people want to call them) is hardly novel. In their statement the \”Political Economy Study Group\” wrote:

    \”Myanmar has no social class that is strong enough to serve as the foundation of democracy nor a consolidated and strong political party. Only the Tatmadaw is an institution that has the fine traditions, discipline, obedience, consolidated strength and endurance, and that is powerful to the degree of safeguarding Our Three Main National Causes. Besides, it is a truth nobody can deny.\”

    If anybody know anything more about this group, or any of the other more obscure organisations that have been making statements, then please shoot me an e-mail. I would be delighted to get some more of this information out on New Mandala.

    Best wishes to all,

    Nich

  8. Vichai N. says:

    You all assume that after HMK Bhumibhol, then the Prince inherits the crown.. Maybe not. Maybe it will pass to Princess Sirindhorn. That would an elegant solution, wouldn’t it?

    If that solution looks so elegantly simple to me, why not to the Monarchy or to HMK or the Privy Council?

    Let’s see how the new Constitution is rewritten on this delicate issue of succession.

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  13. White Elephant says:

    Sure, there is an international security issue in regards to the spread of disease and the cultivation of an illicit drug trade, however these have yet to result in situations anywhere near the problems occurring on the west coast of Africa where there was often no stability whatsoever. That there were an estimated 300,000+ victims of a ‘civil war’ (where largely there was only one ethnic group falling victim) between 2001 and early 2004 in the Ivory Coast elevates it’s urgency in regards to levels of injustice in my limited opinion! Also that the Ivory Coast is surrounded by Burkina Faso, Mali, Guinea and to a lesser problematic extent, Ghana makes a UNSC resolution much more pivotal for regional security. Comparatively Burma is situated between the reasonably stable India and China (and a Thailand which is perhaps becoming not such a good example!)

    So in regards to there not being a generally accepted line drawn for necessary resolutions/intervention presently; in the interim, rather than seeking help from politically impotent international mediums, wouldn’t it be much more prudent for resistance in Burma to pursue support from regional neighbours like India? The Indian philosophy of state power appears much more predisposed to what us in the West would consider rationale. Has this sort of support ever been sought from an organised external opposition? Persisting with these African comparisons, look at the job the Ethiopian army did with this mock Islamic Somali governance!

    Also I’m not sure about these accusations in other posts on the New Mandela of “Chinese” (surely dubious Chinese officials) infringement or support of corruption — but with a more legitimate form of governance, the ACTFA agreements should surely be of beneficial nature to Burmese development?!

    I agree with Kyi May Kaung …

    ….To my mind, sanctions in the case of Burma are meant to send a message, to hurt but not to totally bring down a regime. When a tourism ban to Burma was first discussed in the early 1990s by one of the very first Burmese activist groups, the Canadian Friends of Burma, I had mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, the junta will understand nothing except what hurts their pocket book; on the other, total isolation might not be the best idea. Burma-born economist Ronald Findlay, who is an international trade theorist, told me at the time that “sanctions are for an ethical or moral reason.” Later, at an Open Society Institute event in 2004, he said, “Collapse is not an economic term.” By this I think he meant that a nation can go on for decades without a regime change, hanging on at the survival level.

  14. anon says:

    A scenario that doesn’t divide the Nation? Sure. The Crown Prince, his latest wife, his latest son all die in a car crash. His eldest daughter also conveniently dies. And his illegitimate sons from Mom Benz die as well.

    Everybody will mourn and act sad, but in their hearts, they will be happy that the Princess will become the next monarch and we can expect the Chakri dynasty to survive for a few more decades.

  15. Republican says:

    The King and Democracy:

    “ […] The history of the present King […] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny […] To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world […]

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained, and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within […]

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    […]

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever […]

    […] Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people … ”

    DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, JULY 4 1776

  16. hpboothe says:

    Can anyone name a scenario that DOESN’T completely divide the nation? A scenario where there WOULDN’T be a sizable fraction of the population angry enough to resort to violence? Remember, it only took 19 people to bring down the World Trade Center.

    Plus, what do you suppose happens in the South if Bangkok starts getting chaotic?

    The specifics of the scenario are impossible to guess, but the result is the same regardless – confusion, chaos, violence. I’ve been working on my exit strategy since the April elections – I’d advise everyone else in Thailand who can to think of the same.

    HPB

  17. hpboothe says:

    Sometimes I think you need to fail an IQ test to get a journalism posting in Thailand. Does this Rivers nitwit remember the last time journalist visas were threatened and for what? It was FEER’s article about Thaksin’s business ties with the Crown Prince. What self-respecting journalist can let “I come from the people” crap slide? I’d like to see Thaksin on Hard Talk, as opposed to a lead in to a reality show controversy.
    HPB

  18. Srithanonchai says:

    The quotes given do not make me think that I should read the entire transcript, simply because they merely provide simplistic cliches of two distant journalistic observers. Their comments might look all right for consumers of the UK mass media in London. From a closer Bangkok perspective, they look cheap.

  19. Thorn says:

    Seems like it’s easy for anyone to predict on what gonna happen in Thailand soon. As seen in the final parts of Rivers’ answers, he said “you know” so many times.

    Fear will turn Thai’s “savior” into “evil”. The fear of junta that they will finally get “check bill” when they are no longer in power – will leads Thailand to a prolong period of dictatorship. What would then happen after that….We have October, we have May, what’s next?

    I’m not sure whether this is what he means by “you know”.

  20. Aung Kyaw says:

    I personally agree with Steinberg’s viewpoint–sanctions have done nothing more than show the U.S.’ commitment to democracy in Burma and alienate the ruling military regime in the Western world. Although both make some overly general claims, I think it’s ludicrous for Kyi May Kaung to use the argument of a documentary to represent the view of all Burmese, that “they don’t want tourists.” Also, it’s unfair to depict that NLD represents the Burmese people in general, because it does not–a multi-party parliamentary government (a collaborative one, not a one-party government) was elected, with NLD receiving most of the seats. SNLD (Shan Nationalities League for Democracy) won 23 seats, all from Shan State constituencies (21 NLD seats were also won in Shan State), and even the military-backed NUP won 10 seats. All too often, people focus only on an alternative in which the NLD receives governmental power, which limits a wealth of other options.