Emjay,
I don’t believe the EU and US are that vindictive, but when you can find mass graves that are all linked to the fishing industry and one company in particular it invades even the most hard minded person into action, which is what happened when Phuketwan uncovered what was going on. It’s not as if the world hasn’t known about it before, Phuketwan have published hundreds of photos of the slaves laying nearly naked on Thai beaches covered by Thai soldiers from ISOC.
CNN covered the towing of boats filled with Rohingya out to sea with no motor, no water and no food and nothing happened.
I think it was this report that started the ball rolling: http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/nov/24/nestle-admits-forced-labour-in-seafood-supply-chain by both the EU and the US. What was uncovered susequently and prior to it caused all sorts of NGOs’ worldwide to get up in arms and demand something be done.
The fact that ASEAN ministers couldn’t or wouldn’t sign an agreement on sustainable fishing http://www.seafdec.org/documents/ref02-5.pdf with all the signatories agreeing to the terms, locations and equipment used also added fuel to the now out of control fire.
And also scientists are now saying that tuna population has been reduced by over 60% and will soon have to be regulated…. but by whom?
I just have questions, I don’t have answers.
If you look down the list of shareholders you’ll see under subsidiaries that not 100% of them are owned by the parent company. So who owns the rest?
If you look at awards and recognition you’ll see, for the year 2014 many came from the Stock Exchange of Thailand along with some really bodgy organisations nobody has ever heard of.
It appears that someone at the Stock Exchange of Thailand likes to hand out certificates that are only good for wallpapering. The question now is why?
Then look at the directors of the company and most in senior positions are Chinese or of Chinese origin which seems strange to me as their major export market is the US.
I also looked at where all the degrees had come from and found many could be earnt on-line, the University of Southern California being one.
The whole company doesn’t appear to be what it says it is….Snow White and her dwarfs, with damning reports coming from Nestle and other reputable companies that NGOs’ monitor.
The fact that even the Indonesians say the companies ships are involved in over-fishing tuna in other countries territorial waters rings alarm bells, especially as the Minister https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susi_Pudjiastuti is not even sure they’ll be able to hold onto the Silver Sea 2 until a judgement is handed down or even if a judgement will ever be handed down in the matter.
I don’t have a team of investigators, I have no authority to conduct an investigation, but if I was in charge of an investigation I would be starting with the company that processes the fish and not island hopping looking for slaves.
I would have a team of auditors going through the Union Group’s pay sheets and checking every passport in the companies employ. I’d then move on to payments made to all the subsidiaries to see if the nine refrigerated ships and their trawlers were involved.
I believe that is what the Thai Police General might have been trying to do when his investigation was terminated and he had to flee to Australia and seek asylum.
The status of the author is irrelevant. It’s the arguments that you must attempt to refute. My guess is that the status of the person is everything to you, and that you would support a high-status person no matter what kind of criminal act he has got away with.
Me too, but I had already gone through all that when I began to wonder a while back if there might be something up with the massive growth of this Thai business and the sudden interest in shutting it down by both the EU and the US.
My assumption is that slavery and all sorts of other horrible abuses have been fundamental to the SE Asian fishery for a very long time indeed.
What seems to have changed most recently is the emergence of a Thai-owned multinational moving into a position of global dominance, even near-monopoly, in the sector.
As I’m sure most NM readers would agree, US and EU sanctions would never be used in order to further a purely economic agenda, because all US and UK diplomacy is only ever and always aimed at making the world a safer place for the morally pure.
But it does make you wonder.
If you aren’t so supinely in thrall to the Western supremacy model, that is.
I was intrigued by this comments: “Perhaps if one were to delve a little deeper into the directors of the Union Group and the shareholders one might be surprised (sic) who are actually involved and why the investigation was terminated”, so I tried to delve, but didn’t come up with much.
As a further update to the trafficing, murder and slavery, today the Thai Police General who was in charge of the investigation, which was suddenly terminated, has fled to Australia and requested political asylum. It was on the ABC’s website but suddenly disappeared so I hope I copied it down correctly. http://www.abc.au/bews/2015-12-10/top-thai-cop-seeks-political-asylum-in-australia-fears-for-life/7018018
And he says that aenior police and military officers were the ones running the whole thing and now all the trials are compromised as nobody will want to give evidence for fear of their lives, which includes his own life.
Unfortunately I can see where this whole sorry saga is heading and the junta will now charge him with a concocted crime and LM and demand he be extradicted back to Thailand where he will die whilst under the “protection” of the military.
As New Mandala states it likes vigorous debate, perhaps Dr. Rachel Rudolph and Policy Forum Asia would like to pass comment on what has transpired since her article was published and the evidence supplied.
Good article. Just because there has been a policy of amnesia and forgetting on the part of the RDTL government does not mean that will always be the default setting of the relationship with Indonesia. The five volumes of Chega will always remain available for historians both Indonesian and Timorese who want to research and write the history of the Indonesian occupation. And future generations will certainly develop a new historiography which will show the Indonesian occupation in its true colours. At the moment pragmatism rules and this is understandable – remember De Eamonn de Valera’s ‘economic war’ with Britain in the 1930s after the formation of the Irish Free State which ended up setting the Irish economy back a generation (only recovering in the 1960s) and leading to long term emigration. East Timor’s leadership has wisely avoided such an own goal. They have more important immediate priorities. So it will be for the successor generations to set the record straight.
We have a liberals’ liberal here. Well put, Tamas. Thank you. Genocide in particular is such a loaded term it’s encroaching on Godwin’s law territory in this debate. We are not there yet surely, but a jihad would push it over the brink.
Thankfully the NLD election victory may have already defused the situation up to an extent. It’ll test the Lady’s mettle to the full how she handles the issue. Both the public and the generals are watching, never mind the outsiders.
I guess Donald Trump couldn’t care less what the rest of the world thinks.
Bernie,
The report in the BP did not mention the name of the ship as far as I recall, probably to stop criminal laws being used against them.
I will read Drummond’s article.
The malaysia political scene and political protest scene is very clearly a paradoxical and maybe even a oxymoronic.
Lets consider for a minute , since 2006 there has been numerous rallies and just like rats if you see one, there are probably 5000 for everyone cited, for every thousands who have taken to streets there is wide spread disillusionment, complete and abject view of political leadership and namely prime minister. In any other country with this much of dissatisfaction we would witnessed some sort leadership change at the top with atleast a cosmetic face put up and quick check. Offcourse i do think most malaysian types and singapore are wet blankets . They would croack, the ones with the means migrate, those who want to blog will blog but likely these actions there would not be anymore actions as at the core everyone is a trader – happy to trade some of freedom and right towards living and getting on earning, going about placidly and peacefully. Compare in australia a AUD 5227 bill to the tax payer by speaker would draw massive criticism and resignations , even though within guidelines. morries emma government collapssed bullet due to woologong council misdeeds. Yes morries emma had other troubles, but this issue broke him up. Yes Najib has lost much of his credibility etc but many would still trade with malaysia, najib will still travel widely , enjoy golf and dinner with head of state, strut without much worry.
I suspect in another sense the rm42 billion state funded 1mDB and further rm2.6 billon would have found into common mans pocket. So being share share, Najib is here to stay for a while, i do hope thoough not for another 23 years
More like the clash of ignorance. The *Clash of Civilisations* is the title of an influential book by neo-con academic Samuel P. Huntington.
Published in 1997, it provided pseudo-theoretical cover for almost two decades of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the political elite. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it.
Like Edward W. Said said: *The Clash of Civilisations* thesis is a gimmick like *The War of the Worlds,* better for reinforcing defensive self-pride than for critical understanding of the bewildering interdependence of our time.
A report in the Bangkok post stated that the impounded ship sailed out to sea without anyone noticing and its whereabouts was unknown. The coast guard and nave are suppised to be looking for it.
Just wondering how an impounded ship can just disappear.
The story came out around the time the ship was impounded and no further info is known to me.
Emjay,
I do use Tor, which is why I know about Andrew Drummond’s reports. However after an Aussie professor stated in her report to the Australian government that only child sex offenders used it, I have restricted myself to Safari. Apparently she has no idea that the only way people can get around censorship in Thailand and other countries is by using Tor.
If you have a look at the website I posted showing the Silver Sea 2, it shows that it is still docked at the Indonesian navy yards at Sabang, just above Banda Aceh province.
Nestle carried out an investigation into the Union Group and their report clearly stated they used child and slave labour in their factories.
Perhaps if one were to delve a little deeper into the directors of the Union Group and the shareholders one might be suprised who are actually involved and why the investigation was terminated.
In regards to the sudden interest in Thai slavery, which has just emerged since the coup, I would suggest that Phuketwan played a major role in uncovering the involvement of “Thai naval forces” and supplied most of the inside information for the journalists that won the Pullitzer Prize this year. The Thai navy then went overboard and charged Phuketwan journalists with a number of offences, which were dismissed, but the public prosecutor is still considering appealing the court’s ruling.
I believe it was 4 Corners which also went undercover with Phuketwan journalists and actually showed where many dead slaves were buried, but as it was right next to the powerful person’s house they had to flee the scene or join the corpses.
I don’t believe anyone has a kind word to say about the current rulers of Thailand, except of course the radical royalists who are bound and determined to keep everything the way it was when they held total power. Everything is now a double standard and you either do as you are told or you’ll end up in gaol or dead.
The Thai “elite” are firmly in total control and corruption is rampant.
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Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Emjay,
I don’t believe the EU and US are that vindictive, but when you can find mass graves that are all linked to the fishing industry and one company in particular it invades even the most hard minded person into action, which is what happened when Phuketwan uncovered what was going on. It’s not as if the world hasn’t known about it before, Phuketwan have published hundreds of photos of the slaves laying nearly naked on Thai beaches covered by Thai soldiers from ISOC.
CNN covered the towing of boats filled with Rohingya out to sea with no motor, no water and no food and nothing happened.
I think it was this report that started the ball rolling: http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/nov/24/nestle-admits-forced-labour-in-seafood-supply-chain by both the EU and the US. What was uncovered susequently and prior to it caused all sorts of NGOs’ worldwide to get up in arms and demand something be done.
The fact that ASEAN ministers couldn’t or wouldn’t sign an agreement on sustainable fishing http://www.seafdec.org/documents/ref02-5.pdf with all the signatories agreeing to the terms, locations and equipment used also added fuel to the now out of control fire.
And also scientists are now saying that tuna population has been reduced by over 60% and will soon have to be regulated…. but by whom?
I just have questions, I don’t have answers.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
If you look down the list of shareholders you’ll see under subsidiaries that not 100% of them are owned by the parent company. So who owns the rest?
If you look at awards and recognition you’ll see, for the year 2014 many came from the Stock Exchange of Thailand along with some really bodgy organisations nobody has ever heard of.
It appears that someone at the Stock Exchange of Thailand likes to hand out certificates that are only good for wallpapering. The question now is why?
Then look at the directors of the company and most in senior positions are Chinese or of Chinese origin which seems strange to me as their major export market is the US.
I also looked at where all the degrees had come from and found many could be earnt on-line, the University of Southern California being one.
The whole company doesn’t appear to be what it says it is….Snow White and her dwarfs, with damning reports coming from Nestle and other reputable companies that NGOs’ monitor.
The fact that even the Indonesians say the companies ships are involved in over-fishing tuna in other countries territorial waters rings alarm bells, especially as the Minister https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susi_Pudjiastuti is not even sure they’ll be able to hold onto the Silver Sea 2 until a judgement is handed down or even if a judgement will ever be handed down in the matter.
I don’t have a team of investigators, I have no authority to conduct an investigation, but if I was in charge of an investigation I would be starting with the company that processes the fish and not island hopping looking for slaves.
I would have a team of auditors going through the Union Group’s pay sheets and checking every passport in the companies employ. I’d then move on to payments made to all the subsidiaries to see if the nine refrigerated ships and their trawlers were involved.
I believe that is what the Thai Police General might have been trying to do when his investigation was terminated and he had to flee to Australia and seek asylum.
The last king of Thailand?
The status of the author is irrelevant. It’s the arguments that you must attempt to refute. My guess is that the status of the person is everything to you, and that you would support a high-status person no matter what kind of criminal act he has got away with.
The last king of Thailand?
A failed ЁЯШв hairdresser in UK ‘challenges’ the King of Thailand to declare Thailand a republic!!! And New Mandala gloats with her challenge.
What a very silly place New Mandala had descended into.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Me too, but I had already gone through all that when I began to wonder a while back if there might be something up with the massive growth of this Thai business and the sudden interest in shutting it down by both the EU and the US.
My assumption is that slavery and all sorts of other horrible abuses have been fundamental to the SE Asian fishery for a very long time indeed.
What seems to have changed most recently is the emergence of a Thai-owned multinational moving into a position of global dominance, even near-monopoly, in the sector.
As I’m sure most NM readers would agree, US and EU sanctions would never be used in order to further a purely economic agenda, because all US and UK diplomacy is only ever and always aimed at making the world a safer place for the morally pure.
But it does make you wonder.
If you aren’t so supinely in thrall to the Western supremacy model, that is.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
I was intrigued by this comments: “Perhaps if one were to delve a little deeper into the directors of the Union Group and the shareholders one might be surprised (sic) who are actually involved and why the investigation was terminated”, so I tried to delve, but didn’t come up with much.
http://www.thaiunion.com/en/profile/board-of-directors.ashx
Could we have another clue please?
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
The andrew-drunmond article is blocked in Thailand, obviously it is too sensitive for Thai eyes.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
There should be a net added to http://www.abc.net.au and that should fix the problem.
Spectre of the past
Should be Eamonn de Valera NOT De Eamonn de Valera
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
As a further update to the trafficing, murder and slavery, today the Thai Police General who was in charge of the investigation, which was suddenly terminated, has fled to Australia and requested political asylum. It was on the ABC’s website but suddenly disappeared so I hope I copied it down correctly. http://www.abc.au/bews/2015-12-10/top-thai-cop-seeks-political-asylum-in-australia-fears-for-life/7018018
And he says that aenior police and military officers were the ones running the whole thing and now all the trials are compromised as nobody will want to give evidence for fear of their lives, which includes his own life.
Unfortunately I can see where this whole sorry saga is heading and the junta will now charge him with a concocted crime and LM and demand he be extradicted back to Thailand where he will die whilst under the “protection” of the military.
As New Mandala states it likes vigorous debate, perhaps Dr. Rachel Rudolph and Policy Forum Asia would like to pass comment on what has transpired since her article was published and the evidence supplied.
Spectre of the past
Good article. Just because there has been a policy of amnesia and forgetting on the part of the RDTL government does not mean that will always be the default setting of the relationship with Indonesia. The five volumes of Chega will always remain available for historians both Indonesian and Timorese who want to research and write the history of the Indonesian occupation. And future generations will certainly develop a new historiography which will show the Indonesian occupation in its true colours. At the moment pragmatism rules and this is understandable – remember De Eamonn de Valera’s ‘economic war’ with Britain in the 1930s after the formation of the Irish Free State which ended up setting the Irish economy back a generation (only recovering in the 1960s) and leading to long term emigration. East Timor’s leadership has wisely avoided such an own goal. They have more important immediate priorities. So it will be for the successor generations to set the record straight.
Malaysia’s ‘strongman’?
[…] also Bridget Welsh’s analysis about Najib’s leadership, which explains that saying that while his current actions may get him […]
What is “Islamism”?
A brief word to “Pearshaped” and friends:
A serious person, a genuine commentator, engages with arguments and ideas.
And those who don’t aren’t.
“Pearshaped” doesn’t.
His comments are not even “ad hominem”.
He is not even going after the person.
He is simply jousting with shadows.
Not “ad hominem” but “ad umbras”.
People who like shadow play (wayang kulit) should of course enjoy it.
But they should not think that their doing so is something else while they indulge in this pleasant pastime.
Does it really need to be said, do people need reminding, that there are serious issues involved here?
Learning to see and think and talk about them seriously and clearly is, these days, nothing less than a fateful matter for all of us.
Should we fail to see and name them clearly,then yes, we shall all go “pear-shaped”.
Understanding Myanmar’s communal violence
We have a liberals’ liberal here. Well put, Tamas. Thank you. Genocide in particular is such a loaded term it’s encroaching on Godwin’s law territory in this debate. We are not there yet surely, but a jihad would push it over the brink.
Thankfully the NLD election victory may have already defused the situation up to an extent. It’ll test the Lady’s mettle to the full how she handles the issue. Both the public and the generals are watching, never mind the outsiders.
I guess Donald Trump couldn’t care less what the rest of the world thinks.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Bernie,
The report in the BP did not mention the name of the ship as far as I recall, probably to stop criminal laws being used against them.
I will read Drummond’s article.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Roy,
If you read this story you’ll find out about the Taishan;
http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-officials-charge-captain-illegal-Antarctic-toothfish/56695#ad-image-0
Which changes its name at whim and it may be part of the “fleet” but it’s not the Silver Sea 2.
Which is why I posted andrew-drummond.com, here’s that story there; http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2015/12/we-blinked-and-it-was-gone.html which may be the same as the Phuket Gazette one.
My eyesight prevents me from reading the whole story without using a magnifying glass and it’s as hard as posting messages here.
Bersih 4.0: a win/win outcome?
The malaysia political scene and political protest scene is very clearly a paradoxical and maybe even a oxymoronic.
Lets consider for a minute , since 2006 there has been numerous rallies and just like rats if you see one, there are probably 5000 for everyone cited, for every thousands who have taken to streets there is wide spread disillusionment, complete and abject view of political leadership and namely prime minister. In any other country with this much of dissatisfaction we would witnessed some sort leadership change at the top with atleast a cosmetic face put up and quick check. Offcourse i do think most malaysian types and singapore are wet blankets . They would croack, the ones with the means migrate, those who want to blog will blog but likely these actions there would not be anymore actions as at the core everyone is a trader – happy to trade some of freedom and right towards living and getting on earning, going about placidly and peacefully. Compare in australia a AUD 5227 bill to the tax payer by speaker would draw massive criticism and resignations , even though within guidelines. morries emma government collapssed bullet due to woologong council misdeeds. Yes morries emma had other troubles, but this issue broke him up. Yes Najib has lost much of his credibility etc but many would still trade with malaysia, najib will still travel widely , enjoy golf and dinner with head of state, strut without much worry.
I suspect in another sense the rm42 billion state funded 1mDB and further rm2.6 billon would have found into common mans pocket. So being share share, Najib is here to stay for a while, i do hope thoough not for another 23 years
What is “Islamism”?
More like the clash of ignorance. The *Clash of Civilisations* is the title of an influential book by neo-con academic Samuel P. Huntington.
Published in 1997, it provided pseudo-theoretical cover for almost two decades of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the political elite. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it.
Like Edward W. Said said: *The Clash of Civilisations* thesis is a gimmick like *The War of the Worlds,* better for reinforcing defensive self-pride than for critical understanding of the bewildering interdependence of our time.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
A report in the Bangkok post stated that the impounded ship sailed out to sea without anyone noticing and its whereabouts was unknown. The coast guard and nave are suppised to be looking for it.
Just wondering how an impounded ship can just disappear.
The story came out around the time the ship was impounded and no further info is known to me.
Turning the tide on Thailand’s human trafficking
Emjay,
I do use Tor, which is why I know about Andrew Drummond’s reports. However after an Aussie professor stated in her report to the Australian government that only child sex offenders used it, I have restricted myself to Safari. Apparently she has no idea that the only way people can get around censorship in Thailand and other countries is by using Tor.
If you have a look at the website I posted showing the Silver Sea 2, it shows that it is still docked at the Indonesian navy yards at Sabang, just above Banda Aceh province.
Nestle carried out an investigation into the Union Group and their report clearly stated they used child and slave labour in their factories.
Perhaps if one were to delve a little deeper into the directors of the Union Group and the shareholders one might be suprised who are actually involved and why the investigation was terminated.
In regards to the sudden interest in Thai slavery, which has just emerged since the coup, I would suggest that Phuketwan played a major role in uncovering the involvement of “Thai naval forces” and supplied most of the inside information for the journalists that won the Pullitzer Prize this year. The Thai navy then went overboard and charged Phuketwan journalists with a number of offences, which were dismissed, but the public prosecutor is still considering appealing the court’s ruling.
I believe it was 4 Corners which also went undercover with Phuketwan journalists and actually showed where many dead slaves were buried, but as it was right next to the powerful person’s house they had to flee the scene or join the corpses.
I don’t believe anyone has a kind word to say about the current rulers of Thailand, except of course the radical royalists who are bound and determined to keep everything the way it was when they held total power. Everything is now a double standard and you either do as you are told or you’ll end up in gaol or dead.
The Thai “elite” are firmly in total control and corruption is rampant.