Unfortunately, people in the south ARE secondary citizens, because many of them aren’t ‘real’ Thais (different religion, culture, languages etc); therefore their lives are worth much less than the Sino-Thais of Bangkok. Don’t expect that to change anytime soon.
Dr. Cable is getting closer to the truth about Burma and the Naypyidawrians (I love that word, reminds me of stinky durians!) The coming elections are pretty irrelevant. More of a show for the West than anything else. It doesn’t really matter that much who wins (except of course for the top ruling elite playing musical chairs) because nothing much will change for the ordinary rural people in Burma after the elections (except when natural disasters strike). Even that never-ending strife (or peace talks if you prefer) with the ethnic tribal groups (who is actually supplying them with all these modern weapons anyway?) is, in my opinion, mainly about gangsters and war-lords divvying up turf for lucrative smuggling and trafficking operations along the porous border.
A lot of smoke and mirrors, cloaks and daggers in a country that loves dressing up marionettes dancing on strings (lots of them!).
Actually, yes, I do have the project documents. I’ve been working on this for almost 5 years now. The most significant and largest part of the Normalization project is indeed the river widening. This is the most significant for the riverside communities, as well. From the standpoint of evicting poor people, this is a great move because it can be justified under the guise of flood control, which is politically popular enough. From the standpoint of hydrology, the widening of the river in this circumstance is simply ineffective and has not been sufficiently studied by anyone. Thus, bad science is being used to justify these evictions.
I do agree with you that the middle class residencies are numerically the most important, and my comment about villas in Puncak was meant more to highlight the inequity of eviction policy. You are right about the overall planning problems, too. But, in no way does that justify taking these kinds of wrong-headed actions.
While this may be classified as an “emergency measure”, I don’t think it is asking too much for the emergency measure to not be counter-productive to long term solutions. Widening canals will only increase the costs for future dredging, taking away money that would be needed for meaningful reform that would actually make a difference.
Yes, it’s possible the Erawan Shrine bombing was organized and executed by some terrorist entity based outside of Thailand…although the Uighur possibility seems unlikely if the operation took more than about a month to conceive, plan, scout, prep and carry out (as the forced deportation of the 100+ Uighurs took place only about a month ago).
Another even more ominous possibility also put forward by some commentators is that there are several factions inside the Thai military.
The present faction in power which seems to fully support the Crown Prince as Thailand’s next King and actively supported the large-scale Crown Prince-led nationwide bicycle event that took place only one day prior to the bombing.
And a rival faction which does not support the Crown Price but instead supports his younger sister to replace the present King once he is deceased.
If this turns out to be the basis behind the vicious Erawan Shrine bombing, a fight between two heavily armed military factions willing to stop at nothing to gain the higher position, control the $50 billion Crown Property Bureau, the Thai Army, Navy and Air Force, the to occupy the central position in Thailand’s feudalistic and ubiquitous Patronage System, then the promising future Thailand once enjoyed is at risk.
One Belt One Whip One Road One Time One Hegemon
China would love that, but if you are watching the stock markets lately (or for that matter listen to Donald Trump talking about China), Burmese would be wise to restrict their “exposure” to Chinese influence. Excessive exposure to the China is not always a healthy thing, not even for Apple!
I don’t know why they don’t have a basin/catchment authority. The most likely reason is because for a long time all human settlement, roads and water resource was done under the central government Public Works Department.
Central and East Java have the Brantas River Management Corporation, its been around since 1990. It manages Brantas and Solo River Basin. Solo River Basin has a water council also. I don’t know why Jakarta / West Java doesn’t have one, it could be over lapping provincial boundaries.
The management of Ciliwung is not really under Jakarta government, its under the Department of Public Works. All major rivers and primary canals within Jakarta fall under the jurisdiction of the Department of Public Works (Central Government). Even the land next to the river is under their control. Ahok is clearing it on their behalf.
You assume they are just widening the rivers. But do you and the author have the project documents. Large sections of the dredging and rehabilitation fall under donor projects, like the World Bank JEDI project.
This is just an emergency measure, not a long term solution. What are the plans of the Indonesians government on managing flooding in Jakarta. I remember Jokowi talking about the need for comprehensive basin management.
Jakarta has grown 200% since independence, and that is not counting all the suburbs. IF you factor all the suburbs, the population has grown by 5 fold. Its easy for the rich/middle class to blame the poor residing next to the river, but its also easy for people like you to blame the rich people with their villas in Puncak. If all those illegal villas were destroyed, there still be flooding. The bigger culprit here is the hundreds of middle class bedroom communities that have sprouted along catchment area between Puncak and Jakarta (Depok, Bogor). Is any politician going to raze dozens of large housing estate (mostly lower middle class / middle class ) in the catchment areas.
The problem with such an article, is it only provides a snap shot of the problem.
Not sure any of thius is much to do with “democracy”. And indeed who to believe. But as the occsions arise, it msut be pointed out that the “Hostage situations” are now seemingly coordinated by some central popint and all the “hostage takers” are invaraibly shot dead at the first opportunity, as if like a message be it in Sydney or Paris, “democracies”. The ramification of it is still awaited.
This must be a parody of the paternalistic educated elites who are completely detached from the reality of urban poverty that we heard so much about.
In the name of humanism, why don’t we meet at the Starbucks at Plaza Indonesia tomorrow to plan how we could teach our poor citizens not to live like strayed animals? I heard that you get 20 percent off if you bring your own coffee mug.
So you have a degree in Forensic Science as opposed to my having been an Associate Professor of Forensic Science and Professor of Southeast Asia Studies ? Yes, one can be both a scientist and an “Asianist”. By the way, my father fought for the British Rifles in Malaya for 12 years, and I grew up and lived in Singapore, Malaya and Malaysia for a total of 44 years. My mother’s “godsister” is Thai and my mother almost married a Thai boyfriend, back in the 1950s, when such things were rather rare indeed. I guess I know a little about Thailand and Southeast Asia.
I agree with Andrew MacG M’s comment about the need for proper moderation. This article is about the cruelty of Lese Mageste in Thailand and the writings about the cost of the Queen of England and the like are most unhelpful. If your readers cannot restrain themselves, do your job moderator.
for sixth years ive been working as Civil servant in Rural Area of Indonesia., n should hard to push myself work with honest and responsible, too many procedure , law must be obey .. but Acchievement n Punishment is doesnt work… Corrupted is on the heart of Queen , i cant complain …theres a deep lie of democration,, sometime i get sick bout how`s them steal people right..but they always use sentences in campaign
” if u choose me im promise i will bla bla bla” but after people believe them is sound like a part… i dont mean but i tell the true and everybody should know
The analogy involving cigarette sales is also rather silly. Such sales would not be fraudulent provided that smokers had all the relevant information they needed regarding health risks, and what the cigarettes contained.
A fraud is a deliberate deception, perpetrated by denying people the relevant information, or feeding them false information. To get back to the original subject of this exchange of views, that might well apply to some monarchies, and to one in particular, but not to all.
2015 was the year of two strong terrorist attacks
One in Paris, France, the 7 January (19 dead) and the other one in Bangkok, Thailand, the 17 August (23 dead).
Reaction of the security forces during the 2 attacks:
France (a democracy)
Day 1: The terrorists are identified
Day 2: The terrorists are hunted by French police
Day 3: The terrorists are killed by French police
Thailand (a military dictatorship)
Day 1: Nothing, the police suspect the Red shirts
Day 2: Nothing, the police suspect the Southern Muslim
Day 3: Nothing, the police suspect the Uighurs
Day 4: Nothing, the police suspect a Farang (Caucasian race man)
Day 5: Nothing, the police suspect the Red shirts
Day 6: Nothing, the police suspect the Southern Muslim
Day 7: The police admit that the bomber “may have fled Thailand”…
This is getting silly. I don’t support any kind of lese majeste law, in the UK or anywhere else.
The Founding Fathers of the USA might have regarded monarchy as incompatible with democracy, but in the northern European monarchies at least, this does not seem to be the case. Some of these countries are rated amongst the most open and free in the world.
Opinions, backed up by evidence and information are fine, but it’s always wise to avoid the sweeping statement, or the presumption that one knows more about a subject than anyone else.
All human being subjective in judging something . All judging is based on positions taken whether pro-government or against the government . Just as this paper that tends to counter the government , then the government’s relocation still wrong , even the government does not just displace but provide solutions for them . The activists tend to move based on the ideals of their ego , not seeing the poor condition of Kampung Pulo settlements and the better place of new residential flats in Jatinegara .
The government is trying to solve the problem by action , while the activists tried to solve the problem by DISCUSSING their opinion.
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Thailand’s unheard voices
Unfortunately, people in the south ARE secondary citizens, because many of them aren’t ‘real’ Thais (different religion, culture, languages etc); therefore their lives are worth much less than the Sino-Thais of Bangkok. Don’t expect that to change anytime soon.
Business as usual in Naypyitaw
Dr. Cable is getting closer to the truth about Burma and the Naypyidawrians (I love that word, reminds me of stinky durians!) The coming elections are pretty irrelevant. More of a show for the West than anything else. It doesn’t really matter that much who wins (except of course for the top ruling elite playing musical chairs) because nothing much will change for the ordinary rural people in Burma after the elections (except when natural disasters strike). Even that never-ending strife (or peace talks if you prefer) with the ethnic tribal groups (who is actually supplying them with all these modern weapons anyway?) is, in my opinion, mainly about gangsters and war-lords divvying up turf for lucrative smuggling and trafficking operations along the porous border.
A lot of smoke and mirrors, cloaks and daggers in a country that loves dressing up marionettes dancing on strings (lots of them!).
As the sun rises
If your hero is Donald Trump?!?!
Don’t really have to say anymore…
Thailand’s nightmare scenario
Indeed, my initial first thoughts were also that it was from a domestic source–one “faction” or another–despite the bomber potentially being foreign.
Empirically, this may prove to be otherwise in the future.
good article! -thomas
Floods and forced evictions in Jakarta
Actually, yes, I do have the project documents. I’ve been working on this for almost 5 years now. The most significant and largest part of the Normalization project is indeed the river widening. This is the most significant for the riverside communities, as well. From the standpoint of evicting poor people, this is a great move because it can be justified under the guise of flood control, which is politically popular enough. From the standpoint of hydrology, the widening of the river in this circumstance is simply ineffective and has not been sufficiently studied by anyone. Thus, bad science is being used to justify these evictions.
I do agree with you that the middle class residencies are numerically the most important, and my comment about villas in Puncak was meant more to highlight the inequity of eviction policy. You are right about the overall planning problems, too. But, in no way does that justify taking these kinds of wrong-headed actions.
While this may be classified as an “emergency measure”, I don’t think it is asking too much for the emergency measure to not be counter-productive to long term solutions. Widening canals will only increase the costs for future dredging, taking away money that would be needed for meaningful reform that would actually make a difference.
Thailand’s nightmare scenario
Yes, it’s possible the Erawan Shrine bombing was organized and executed by some terrorist entity based outside of Thailand…although the Uighur possibility seems unlikely if the operation took more than about a month to conceive, plan, scout, prep and carry out (as the forced deportation of the 100+ Uighurs took place only about a month ago).
Another even more ominous possibility also put forward by some commentators is that there are several factions inside the Thai military.
The present faction in power which seems to fully support the Crown Prince as Thailand’s next King and actively supported the large-scale Crown Prince-led nationwide bicycle event that took place only one day prior to the bombing.
And a rival faction which does not support the Crown Price but instead supports his younger sister to replace the present King once he is deceased.
If this turns out to be the basis behind the vicious Erawan Shrine bombing, a fight between two heavily armed military factions willing to stop at nothing to gain the higher position, control the $50 billion Crown Property Bureau, the Thai Army, Navy and Air Force, the to occupy the central position in Thailand’s feudalistic and ubiquitous Patronage System, then the promising future Thailand once enjoyed is at risk.
As the sun rises
One Belt One Whip One Road One Time One Hegemon
China would love that, but if you are watching the stock markets lately (or for that matter listen to Donald Trump talking about China), Burmese would be wise to restrict their “exposure” to Chinese influence. Excessive exposure to the China is not always a healthy thing, not even for Apple!
Ending conflict in Thailand’s Deep South
Brilliant analysis.
Life after the Bangkok blast
What a gem of articulate, accurate analysis this diamond article is.
Renovation rescues and unrequited love
Indonesia needs to stop feeding its self-importance, far greater than what Australia is dishing out.
Floods and forced evictions in Jakarta
I don’t know why they don’t have a basin/catchment authority. The most likely reason is because for a long time all human settlement, roads and water resource was done under the central government Public Works Department.
Central and East Java have the Brantas River Management Corporation, its been around since 1990. It manages Brantas and Solo River Basin. Solo River Basin has a water council also. I don’t know why Jakarta / West Java doesn’t have one, it could be over lapping provincial boundaries.
The management of Ciliwung is not really under Jakarta government, its under the Department of Public Works. All major rivers and primary canals within Jakarta fall under the jurisdiction of the Department of Public Works (Central Government). Even the land next to the river is under their control. Ahok is clearing it on their behalf.
You assume they are just widening the rivers. But do you and the author have the project documents. Large sections of the dredging and rehabilitation fall under donor projects, like the World Bank JEDI project.
http://www.worldbank.org/en/results/2014/09/10/jakarta-emergency-dredging-initiative-project
This is just an emergency measure, not a long term solution. What are the plans of the Indonesians government on managing flooding in Jakarta. I remember Jokowi talking about the need for comprehensive basin management.
Jakarta has grown 200% since independence, and that is not counting all the suburbs. IF you factor all the suburbs, the population has grown by 5 fold. Its easy for the rich/middle class to blame the poor residing next to the river, but its also easy for people like you to blame the rich people with their villas in Puncak. If all those illegal villas were destroyed, there still be flooding. The bigger culprit here is the hundreds of middle class bedroom communities that have sprouted along catchment area between Puncak and Jakarta (Depok, Bogor). Is any politician going to raze dozens of large housing estate (mostly lower middle class / middle class ) in the catchment areas.
The problem with such an article, is it only provides a snap shot of the problem.
Terrorism in the heart of Thailand
Not sure any of thius is much to do with “democracy”. And indeed who to believe. But as the occsions arise, it msut be pointed out that the “Hostage situations” are now seemingly coordinated by some central popint and all the “hostage takers” are invaraibly shot dead at the first opportunity, as if like a message be it in Sydney or Paris, “democracies”. The ramification of it is still awaited.
Floods and forced evictions in Jakarta
This must be a parody of the paternalistic educated elites who are completely detached from the reality of urban poverty that we heard so much about.
In the name of humanism, why don’t we meet at the Starbucks at Plaza Indonesia tomorrow to plan how we could teach our poor citizens not to live like strayed animals? I heard that you get 20 percent off if you bring your own coffee mug.
Terrorism in the heart of Thailand
Bernie,
So you have a degree in Forensic Science as opposed to my having been an Associate Professor of Forensic Science and Professor of Southeast Asia Studies ? Yes, one can be both a scientist and an “Asianist”. By the way, my father fought for the British Rifles in Malaya for 12 years, and I grew up and lived in Singapore, Malaya and Malaysia for a total of 44 years. My mother’s “godsister” is Thai and my mother almost married a Thai boyfriend, back in the 1950s, when such things were rather rare indeed. I guess I know a little about Thailand and Southeast Asia.
Lèse-majesté today
I agree with Andrew MacG M’s comment about the need for proper moderation. This article is about the cruelty of Lese Mageste in Thailand and the writings about the cost of the Queen of England and the like are most unhelpful. If your readers cannot restrain themselves, do your job moderator.
Getting up close and personal with Indonesia
for sixth years ive been working as Civil servant in Rural Area of Indonesia., n should hard to push myself work with honest and responsible, too many procedure , law must be obey .. but Acchievement n Punishment is doesnt work… Corrupted is on the heart of Queen , i cant complain …theres a deep lie of democration,, sometime i get sick bout how`s them steal people right..but they always use sentences in campaign
” if u choose me im promise i will bla bla bla” but after people believe them is sound like a part… i dont mean but i tell the true and everybody should know
Lèse-majesté today
The analogy involving cigarette sales is also rather silly. Such sales would not be fraudulent provided that smokers had all the relevant information they needed regarding health risks, and what the cigarettes contained.
A fraud is a deliberate deception, perpetrated by denying people the relevant information, or feeding them false information. To get back to the original subject of this exchange of views, that might well apply to some monarchies, and to one in particular, but not to all.
Terrorism in the heart of Thailand
2015 was the year of two strong terrorist attacks
One in Paris, France, the 7 January (19 dead) and the other one in Bangkok, Thailand, the 17 August (23 dead).
Reaction of the security forces during the 2 attacks:
France (a democracy)
Day 1: The terrorists are identified
Day 2: The terrorists are hunted by French police
Day 3: The terrorists are killed by French police
Thailand (a military dictatorship)
Day 1: Nothing, the police suspect the Red shirts
Day 2: Nothing, the police suspect the Southern Muslim
Day 3: Nothing, the police suspect the Uighurs
Day 4: Nothing, the police suspect a Farang (Caucasian race man)
Day 5: Nothing, the police suspect the Red shirts
Day 6: Nothing, the police suspect the Southern Muslim
Day 7: The police admit that the bomber “may have fled Thailand”…
Lèse-majesté today
This is getting silly. I don’t support any kind of lese majeste law, in the UK or anywhere else.
The Founding Fathers of the USA might have regarded monarchy as incompatible with democracy, but in the northern European monarchies at least, this does not seem to be the case. Some of these countries are rated amongst the most open and free in the world.
Opinions, backed up by evidence and information are fine, but it’s always wise to avoid the sweeping statement, or the presumption that one knows more about a subject than anyone else.
Floods and forced evictions in Jakarta
All human being subjective in judging something . All judging is based on positions taken whether pro-government or against the government . Just as this paper that tends to counter the government , then the government’s relocation still wrong , even the government does not just displace but provide solutions for them . The activists tend to move based on the ideals of their ego , not seeing the poor condition of Kampung Pulo settlements and the better place of new residential flats in Jatinegara .
The government is trying to solve the problem by action , while the activists tried to solve the problem by DISCUSSING their opinion.