Frankly, 14 students who ‘promised to fight’, what a big deal! Meanwhile, ten of thousands of other students are flocking every day to the shopping malls and as long as they can play with their last smartphone, they don’t care about anything else. No threat on that side for the junta. 50 years of brain washing has done its work. The only ‘hope’ is that the economic situation is deterioring and the well-being and middle class people are starting to wonder.
As Nick says, the dangers and terrible costs of a bloody revolution should not be discounted. But as Khun Niphon notes, there are reasons to be hopeful. There are indeed ideological differences between Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts (and within each movement). However, they are differences that can be tolerated, if not bridged. To the extent that differences in thinking are based on differences in class, location and occupation, there are indications that long term trends may reduce those differences. Improvements in education, mobility, information availability, occupation and income in Thailand’s regions mean that “cosmopolitan villagers,” in Charles Keyes phrase, are more similar to city dwellers today than they have ever been and will be more so tomorrow. That does not mean that differences in thinking that lead to political conflicts will simply melt away over time. If poorly managed, such conflicts again could lead to violence and violence tends to enrage and thus lead to more violence.
So, the first task is to reduce and hopefully eliminate violence from Thai politics. This will require much better control of the violent subgroups on all sides. The second task is to work out ways that differences can be expressed without causing chaos (seizing airports, government buildings and city streets). The third is to recognize all the issues on which both sides agree so that we can get back to an elected government that meets the needs for both democracy and good governance. There should be a strong common interest among social movements and political parties across the political spectrum to get past the current military government as soon as possible. The military, unintentionally, seems to be providing new reasons for a quick return to civilian government nearly every day.
In your usual hate to denigrate the Chinese/Tayoke. Disregarding the importtant sequences that make Than Shwe ‘give away the house as well as the key’ to stay in power.
1) White washing the west iniquity that you usually do not unlike this #1.1.
2) Than Shwe samsara is set by his Kama. He is no “Min” and he is a very intelligent Nationalistic Bamar. So thread carefully with your west-philia that brought about the suffering of the innocent citizenry of Myanmar. The west and poster like yourself underestimate this knave and the citizenry will pay for it.
3) Presently a chance to support and nourish the freedom of citizenry, is threaten by the disasters. Let the sleeping dog lie, is a good adage, unless you are the dog.
During the course of the Thailand Forum held at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore last week, there was some discussion of Dao Din and of the public sympathy that these students have attracted. A number of participants noted that the concerns over the denial of access natural resources that originally motivated Dao Din reflected the fact that the group’s constituency consisted of truly poor rural people, marginalized even by the standards of Isan. It did not, that is consist of the “middle-class peasants”, “cosmopolitan villagers”, or “urbanized villagers” who comprise the core of the Red side in Thai politics and the group whose interests the restoration of the liberal democracy that Tyrell Haberkorn apparently has mind when she writes of “democracy” would serve. This point is not trivial, in view of the paternalism that has long served as a substitute for liberal democracy in Thailand.
Does it really matter that the Burmese have in the main lost the r sound? The one spelling mistake they are prone to make and never the Rakhine who retain the r is the mixing up of the vowels ya yit and ya pint as in the misreading between north and monkey in Mrauk-U. They are usually correct in using the right consonant ra for yaza-win (history) or ya for yek-kahn (loom).
Anawrahta (1044) in the annals of Burma is certainly bigger than William the Conqueror (1066) in British history. And in the final analysis Burmese couldn’t care less what outside historical analysts come up with. Burmese people and their chroniclers have themselves pulled no punches when it comes to their monarchs making them known to posterity ‘like it is’, famous examples being Kala-kya Min (king overthrown by the foreigners) and Tayoke -pyay Min (king who ran away from the Chinese) marking about the middle and the end respectively of the Pagan Dynasty/Era.
You seem to think the two – helping others in their hour of need and wanting a like for your post on Facebook – are mutually exclusive.
A smart phone with Facebook today happens to be a lifeline enabling instant communication especially to obtain immediate assistance, very likely a matter of life and death at this juncture.
Dare I say it is the most democratic instrument and medium the Burmese public can claim ownership of and utilise in a very effective manner, naturally and inevitably replete with trolls, rumour and malicious gossip, not least “cyber warriors” dubbing one another sit khway (army hounds) and demo khway (democracy hounds) or similar outright abuse and swearing.
Soe Thane, a former admiral and government minister has read the riot act on abusive language directed at government ministers, not least Mr President himself, who on their part have managed to come up with a whole string of gaffes and earn popular contempt and ridicule.
One might even argue that, given its popularity and ever growing use both among the public and more crucially the armed forces (Tatmadaw), with so much information sloshing about, smart phone/Facebook could finally, and not a moment too soon, help bring about the undoing of military domination.
Thanks for a good map of general population of countries surrounding Myanmar.
Loss in translation of the map is the fact that the population by ethnics division.
As India is set to become the most populous Muslim country it is a matter of time the eternal Hindu-Muslim conflicts spill over into the nearest Buddhist realm, Myanmar.
Appreciate the foresightedness of your map. Chin up for the cheap shots and keep on with the exposée.
Firstly thank you Ko Chit Win for the info and connection to Facebook┬о. A media not unlike New Mandala┬о that can bring together during needs.
Myanmar is currently experience more than usual monsoon deluge.the central and southern Myanmar the rice fields depend on annual “Flooding” as preparation for the planting of paddy the following season.
#1 Blaming the victims of flood, that even the world weather experts are not prescient to is reprehensible.
If you even take a look at the photo and the comment carefully, instead of feeling sorry as an arm chair critics that you obviously are, you will realize the misery that 1/2 of the country is undergoing.
May be you should like my ilks experience the days of wetness among the often chest high water b/f making lofty comment of ‘global warming’ as cause.
Do us a favor by donating to the cause as a redemption.
May be when the flood reach Yangon through rising water of “Dagon Myint” the ambassador of the western countries will realize how seriously the consequences yet to come of the flood will be.
Poor Dr Mark (Sayar Hmut Kyi), Irish missionary of Maulmein, creditted with unique spelling of Burmese speech into some “disciplined” Roman scripts. Hla, Myint, Mya, Kyi, Aye, Kyaung, etc. which no no-Burmese would ever pronounce like a Burmese would having grown up in Mark’s way.
Corruption of language especially names is common everywhere. Sean, Sion, Shaun, etc.
Burmese typically pays scant attention to rules. And they also feel free to do what they like. One would never find anywhere on earth words like “Spare”, “School ferry”, “Side car”, “hand phone”, “Go show”, “slow down”, “man out”, “warming up”, etc. are used unapologetic-ally to denote the meaning they have inside Burma.
This is a strange article.
The flood looks really bad and in so many regions of the country. Very unusual.
So what caused the flood? Heavy rain is the cheap answer.
Climate change? Massive deforestation caused by logging and mining? Soil erosion caused by improper farming? Too many badly constructed dams on the rivers?
What do “smart people” say on their smart phones?
Perhaps people in Burma are better prepared for natural disasters the next time. Nature is hard to control and predict, but one can at least try to prepare oneself better against these disastrous events. It is part of the job of good governments to educate the population and to have appropriate emergency measures.
I feel sorry for the people who are suffering, but it is unbelievable that some people in Burma care more about the “likes” they get on their Facebook pages than about rational disaster management.
That’s why you have to transliterate words correctly. Myauk is monkey. Mrauk is North. By the way, Marayu was a Rakhaing King and the “r” is pronounced differently than the “y” in his name.
Pronunciation is different from correct orthography. This is true in many languages, especially if you consider dialects. If you write Burmese correctly, you still use “rakauk” which is “r” for words like Arahan, Razawin, Rakhaing etc. Besides you should respect minorities such as the Rakhaing, who still pronounce the “r” correctly. Why don’t we write Yohingya (Rohingyas don’t exist!)
Burmese have a very unscientific way of writing their language using the Latin alphabet. It is very ad-hoc without any system. There are also problems with grammar, such as the adjective for “Myanmar”. Is it Myanmarese food or Myanmese food? Transliteration is not a joke, say for legal or diplomatic documents.
Generally in English and French one try not to put two vowels(Y is consider a vowel some times) in succession within a word.
Aye- in French is ai- making aiyawaddy and Aye in English pronounce ‘Eye’ making the correct pronunciation of the river impossible to pronounce. -Ir is closest to present Aye, therefore Ir-rawaddy, by the colonists.
Nothing to do with the citizenry unable to pronounce the word ‘R”.
‘The Wheel-Turner and His House is probably not for the general reader.’
1) An ‘Elitist’ attitude that transcend beyond disdain for simple citizenry.
2) Encouraging and promoting similar sentiment among New Mandala poster #1 -#1.2/
If Goh’s book is to diminish the foundation of Bamar: Buddhism, Anawyattha
The original “r’ was first used by the colonial elitist might have been French or Portuguese, with their elitist “R” that can only be correctly pronounce by them then.
Turning Thailand into a “Siamese Republic” will NOT be an improvement, and arguably not even Siamese, since Siamese have always had kings. Far better would be a massive modernising of the monarchy system, especially far,far more DE-Centralisation from the current unsustainable Bangkok-centric model.
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Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Are you talking to me?
It’s hard to understand you sometimes!
Hopes for democracy in Thailand
Frankly, 14 students who ‘promised to fight’, what a big deal! Meanwhile, ten of thousands of other students are flocking every day to the shopping malls and as long as they can play with their last smartphone, they don’t care about anything else. No threat on that side for the junta. 50 years of brain washing has done its work. The only ‘hope’ is that the economic situation is deterioring and the well-being and middle class people are starting to wonder.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
As Nick says, the dangers and terrible costs of a bloody revolution should not be discounted. But as Khun Niphon notes, there are reasons to be hopeful. There are indeed ideological differences between Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts (and within each movement). However, they are differences that can be tolerated, if not bridged. To the extent that differences in thinking are based on differences in class, location and occupation, there are indications that long term trends may reduce those differences. Improvements in education, mobility, information availability, occupation and income in Thailand’s regions mean that “cosmopolitan villagers,” in Charles Keyes phrase, are more similar to city dwellers today than they have ever been and will be more so tomorrow. That does not mean that differences in thinking that lead to political conflicts will simply melt away over time. If poorly managed, such conflicts again could lead to violence and violence tends to enrage and thus lead to more violence.
So, the first task is to reduce and hopefully eliminate violence from Thai politics. This will require much better control of the violent subgroups on all sides. The second task is to work out ways that differences can be expressed without causing chaos (seizing airports, government buildings and city streets). The third is to recognize all the issues on which both sides agree so that we can get back to an elected government that meets the needs for both democracy and good governance. There should be a strong common interest among social movements and political parties across the political spectrum to get past the current military government as soon as possible. The military, unintentionally, seems to be providing new reasons for a quick return to civilian government nearly every day.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
In your usual hate to denigrate the Chinese/Tayoke. Disregarding the importtant sequences that make Than Shwe ‘give away the house as well as the key’ to stay in power.
1) White washing the west iniquity that you usually do not unlike this #1.1.
2) Than Shwe samsara is set by his Kama. He is no “Min” and he is a very intelligent Nationalistic Bamar. So thread carefully with your west-philia that brought about the suffering of the innocent citizenry of Myanmar. The west and poster like yourself underestimate this knave and the citizenry will pay for it.
3) Presently a chance to support and nourish the freedom of citizenry, is threaten by the disasters. Let the sleeping dog lie, is a good adage, unless you are the dog.
Hopes for democracy in Thailand
During the course of the Thailand Forum held at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore last week, there was some discussion of Dao Din and of the public sympathy that these students have attracted. A number of participants noted that the concerns over the denial of access natural resources that originally motivated Dao Din reflected the fact that the group’s constituency consisted of truly poor rural people, marginalized even by the standards of Isan. It did not, that is consist of the “middle-class peasants”, “cosmopolitan villagers”, or “urbanized villagers” who comprise the core of the Red side in Thai politics and the group whose interests the restoration of the liberal democracy that Tyrell Haberkorn apparently has mind when she writes of “democracy” would serve. This point is not trivial, in view of the paternalism that has long served as a substitute for liberal democracy in Thailand.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Than Shwe will be remembered as “tayoke pay min” the king who gave away to the Chinese lol
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Does it really matter that the Burmese have in the main lost the r sound? The one spelling mistake they are prone to make and never the Rakhine who retain the r is the mixing up of the vowels ya yit and ya pint as in the misreading between north and monkey in Mrauk-U. They are usually correct in using the right consonant ra for yaza-win (history) or ya for yek-kahn (loom).
Anawrahta (1044) in the annals of Burma is certainly bigger than William the Conqueror (1066) in British history. And in the final analysis Burmese couldn’t care less what outside historical analysts come up with. Burmese people and their chroniclers have themselves pulled no punches when it comes to their monarchs making them known to posterity ‘like it is’, famous examples being Kala-kya Min (king overthrown by the foreigners) and Tayoke -pyay Min (king who ran away from the Chinese) marking about the middle and the end respectively of the Pagan Dynasty/Era.
Facebook and Myanmar’s two floods
You seem to think the two – helping others in their hour of need and wanting a like for your post on Facebook – are mutually exclusive.
A smart phone with Facebook today happens to be a lifeline enabling instant communication especially to obtain immediate assistance, very likely a matter of life and death at this juncture.
Dare I say it is the most democratic instrument and medium the Burmese public can claim ownership of and utilise in a very effective manner, naturally and inevitably replete with trolls, rumour and malicious gossip, not least “cyber warriors” dubbing one another sit khway (army hounds) and demo khway (democracy hounds) or similar outright abuse and swearing.
Soe Thane, a former admiral and government minister has read the riot act on abusive language directed at government ministers, not least Mr President himself, who on their part have managed to come up with a whole string of gaffes and earn popular contempt and ridicule.
One might even argue that, given its popularity and ever growing use both among the public and more crucially the armed forces (Tatmadaw), with so much information sloshing about, smart phone/Facebook could finally, and not a moment too soon, help bring about the undoing of military domination.
The centre of the neighbourhood
Nich
Thanks for a good map of general population of countries surrounding Myanmar.
Loss in translation of the map is the fact that the population by ethnics division.
As India is set to become the most populous Muslim country it is a matter of time the eternal Hindu-Muslim conflicts spill over into the nearest Buddhist realm, Myanmar.
Appreciate the foresightedness of your map. Chin up for the cheap shots and keep on with the exposée.
Facebook and Myanmar’s two floods
Firstly thank you Ko Chit Win for the info and connection to Facebook┬о. A media not unlike New Mandala┬о that can bring together during needs.
Myanmar is currently experience more than usual monsoon deluge.the central and southern Myanmar the rice fields depend on annual “Flooding” as preparation for the planting of paddy the following season.
#1 Blaming the victims of flood, that even the world weather experts are not prescient to is reprehensible.
If you even take a look at the photo and the comment carefully, instead of feeling sorry as an arm chair critics that you obviously are, you will realize the misery that 1/2 of the country is undergoing.
May be you should like my ilks experience the days of wetness among the often chest high water b/f making lofty comment of ‘global warming’ as cause.
Do us a favor by donating to the cause as a redemption.
May be when the flood reach Yangon through rising water of “Dagon Myint” the ambassador of the western countries will realize how seriously the consequences yet to come of the flood will be.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Poor Dr Mark (Sayar Hmut Kyi), Irish missionary of Maulmein, creditted with unique spelling of Burmese speech into some “disciplined” Roman scripts. Hla, Myint, Mya, Kyi, Aye, Kyaung, etc. which no no-Burmese would ever pronounce like a Burmese would having grown up in Mark’s way.
Corruption of language especially names is common everywhere. Sean, Sion, Shaun, etc.
Burmese typically pays scant attention to rules. And they also feel free to do what they like. One would never find anywhere on earth words like “Spare”, “School ferry”, “Side car”, “hand phone”, “Go show”, “slow down”, “man out”, “warming up”, etc. are used unapologetic-ally to denote the meaning they have inside Burma.
Facebook and Myanmar’s two floods
This is a strange article.
The flood looks really bad and in so many regions of the country. Very unusual.
So what caused the flood? Heavy rain is the cheap answer.
Climate change? Massive deforestation caused by logging and mining? Soil erosion caused by improper farming? Too many badly constructed dams on the rivers?
What do “smart people” say on their smart phones?
Perhaps people in Burma are better prepared for natural disasters the next time. Nature is hard to control and predict, but one can at least try to prepare oneself better against these disastrous events. It is part of the job of good governments to educate the population and to have appropriate emergency measures.
I feel sorry for the people who are suffering, but it is unbelievable that some people in Burma care more about the “likes” they get on their Facebook pages than about rational disaster management.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
That’s why you have to transliterate words correctly. Myauk is monkey. Mrauk is North. By the way, Marayu was a Rakhaing King and the “r” is pronounced differently than the “y” in his name.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Pronunciation is different from correct orthography. This is true in many languages, especially if you consider dialects. If you write Burmese correctly, you still use “rakauk” which is “r” for words like Arahan, Razawin, Rakhaing etc. Besides you should respect minorities such as the Rakhaing, who still pronounce the “r” correctly. Why don’t we write Yohingya (Rohingyas don’t exist!)
Burmese have a very unscientific way of writing their language using the Latin alphabet. It is very ad-hoc without any system. There are also problems with grammar, such as the adjective for “Myanmar”. Is it Myanmarese food or Myanmese food? Transliteration is not a joke, say for legal or diplomatic documents.
Thailand’s human trafficking won’t stop
Thanks for the posts. I hadn’t seen the Nation’s post before.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
@12
Generally in English and French one try not to put two vowels(Y is consider a vowel some times) in succession within a word.
Aye- in French is ai- making aiyawaddy and Aye in English pronounce ‘Eye’ making the correct pronunciation of the river impossible to pronounce. -Ir is closest to present Aye, therefore Ir-rawaddy, by the colonists.
Nothing to do with the citizenry unable to pronounce the word ‘R”.
Unless you have trouble let the Bamar be.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
‘The Wheel-Turner and His House is probably not for the general reader.’
1) An ‘Elitist’ attitude that transcend beyond disdain for simple citizenry.
2) Encouraging and promoting similar sentiment among New Mandala poster #1 -#1.2/
If Goh’s book is to diminish the foundation of Bamar: Buddhism, Anawyattha
The original “r’ was first used by the colonial elitist might have been French or Portuguese, with their elitist “R” that can only be correctly pronounce by them then.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
Current right version of the language is the one currently spoken by the people.
The Republic of Siam?
Turning Thailand into a “Siamese Republic” will NOT be an improvement, and arguably not even Siamese, since Siamese have always had kings. Far better would be a massive modernising of the monarchy system, especially far,far more DE-Centralisation from the current unsustainable Bangkok-centric model.
Review of The Wheel-Turner and His House
TumbUp Marayu!
Most myanmar people don’t know how to pronounce it.
eg, Anawyahta instead of Anawrahta.
Ayeyarwaddy instead of irrawaddy.