How many generations does it take to become a citizen of any country? What about the many ethnic minorities in Burma who are classified as Burmese?
For your information a death camp is where people are beaten and starved to death as well as murdered and raped.
Why don’t you get a whistle out instead?
The “Rohingya” are not, never have been, and never will be, anything other than illegal Bangladeshi migrants. They have no historical, cultural or ethnic origins in Myanmar and never will. You are wrong and no amount of shill dichotomous Leftist-Islamism will change that fact. They are not Burmese and they do not die in “death camps”, claims of “genocide” made by young na├пve NGO workers, far too young to have seen Buchenwald, Dachau, Auschwitz, the Bataan Death March, or the Japanese POW camps (where my uncle spent 12 years) spread over Malaya and what is now Indonesia.
Wait till I get my harp and lute so I can hear some more Orwellian “Arakan Daze”….
A good overall assessment of the situation. The like the terms democracy worship and the democracy cult. I think it is a reality that democracy is placed on a pedestal in Thailand…
I am not sure if what you are saying is all that different Roy? Just a more in-depth view…
Najib lied when he stated that he was shocked to learn about mass graves on the border. He and many others have turned a blind eye to people smuggling as to many people of political influence, on both sides of the border, have made a fortune from this trade.
Peter Cohen you are wrong to state that the Rohingya is a problem for Bangladesh as most Rohingya are actually Burmese that died in these death camps.
He has just learned the art of speaking like a true politician (from his many Western advisors), nuanced and sophisticated — targeting different message to different groups.
How is Najib Razak different from Tony Blair, George Bush Jr, or for that matter Tony Abbot or Barack Obama?
Prime Minister Najib is a confirmed hypocrite. No Malaysian gives a damn what he has to say about anything in the universe. He has reversed himself on “liberalism” and Islam, once every week. I cannot decide if he is an Islamic hardliner or a tolerant Muslim. Malaysians decided long ago that he is a fool, disingenuous and his decisions are made by Home Minister, Zahid Hamidi, who he is deathly afraid of, and his wife Rosmah, who he is even more afraid of. Najib is an embarrassment to a nation that already suffered through 22 years of Mahathirian temper-tantrums and megalomaniacal insanity. UMNO is not even looking after its own citizens; they have no business worrying about Bangladeshi “Rohingya” which is Dhaka’s problem. Furthermore, though Muslim, they don’t look ‘Malay enough’ to win UMNO illegal votes.
This article would be more acceptble if it did not argue that democracy has been elevated to a cult status. It shows a lack of understanding of reality.
Within both the red and yellow shirt movements there is a myriad of opinions.
On the red side fighting for democracy we have capitalists and people who want to go down the French path to democracy.
On the yellow side we have people wanting to maintain their status, protect themselves from prosecution and the corrupt military.
In simple terms the Reds want democracy to finally arrive in Thailand and the yellows don’t.
Once democracy, in a limited form, returns to Thailand there will eventually be a split within the Red camp as the united call for democracy will be achieved.
Only a real political party can change the status quo and as to date I haven’t seen this party with a real political programme and a fully democratic structure.
As far as the so called networks are concerned they are fighting for survival as shown in the recent power struggle in the palace. Nobody really knows what will happen when the king finally meets his maker as discussing this will get you upto 15 years in prison.
LM should be scrapped to enable the people to openly discuss Thailand’s rotten history truthfully.
Not exclusively so. The state of Arakan, predecessor to the contemporary Rohingya identity has a long history with Burma. The Burmese were in regular conflicts with Arakanese states for several hundred years before arrival of the British, many of these ending up in Arakanese soldier doing the usual business of pillaging and burning.
I don’t think the hatred stems from that either, there used to be Mujahideen operating when Burma was formed, and today Rohinya supposedly gets special treatment from the world press. No, I think it’s the fear of the different, in this case your regular Burmese buddhist can find little in common with Rohinya culture and religion, which appears to be almost identical to neighboring Bangladesh. They are viewed as an outsider and a threat to Burmese cultural dominancy in the region. This mentality that alienate difference has always been prevalent in the world, and especially with a government like this the radical Burmese are able to subject Rohinyans to the publicized de-humanizing treatments.
One possible solution, which is never going to happen is to grant Rohinya more autonomy and force the Burmese nationalists to back off.
Burma is not “massacring” its Muslims but it makes for great Islamic propaganda, especially as Muslims are massacring each other in Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Bangladesh, well everywhere in the Islamic World. Nice Taqiyya, but it don’t wash.
Since Bangladesh created the overflow in population, it is their problem.
My understanding is that, the British during their colonial era, brought in the Rohinyas to police and control the Burmese people. Suffice to say that there were atrocities by the hands of the Rohinyas against the Burmese. This has left a festering wound bordering on outright hatred throughout Burma that has continued to this day. That period was such a painful period for the Burmese people that even our Noble prize winning Lady is deafeningly silent on this issue.
Yes, based on humanitarian ethos, Burma should forgive, if not forget, and assilmilate the Rohinyas into their own conclave under and within the protection of Burmese law. However, the Brits and Western polyannas should also realize their complicity in this festering wound. Support should be given morally and financially to Burma to help and aid in the relocation of these homeless people. Finger-pointing is well and good, but it serves no pupose if there ae no concrete action plans to end and resolve this humanitariona issue.
Dr Mathew Davies see this situation typically from a western POV: HR.
This may be a correct view at this point in time where refugees are afloat in the bay of Bengal.
Lest being accused of being a Necolonist
How about the the father of all problems and related ?
1) Unmitigated over population.
2) The zero prospect of assimilation.
3) The constant reality of secession, as in southern Thailand , and Myanmar trying to prevent.
4) The constant none contribution through Nepotism culturally and financially.
JUst waiting for the other shoe of the west to drop, calling everyone Islamophobe and racist.
The good news is those labeling just DO NOT wash in Myanmar or Thailand, the bad news is the Kalar are suffering due to their above mentioned family of problems.
After WW II in “civilized” Europe, millions of people were driven out of their homes after the nazis were defeated, thanks chiefly to the Soviet Army. Many of these were Germans who were told in no uncertain terms there was no room for them in Czechoslovakia and Poland. When they tarried, they were killed. When Myanmar got its freedom from Britain, they earned the right to determine who was a citizen and who was a squatter. In the US, our hands aren’t clean: our surviving aboriginal inhabitants weren’t universally accorded citizenship until 1921 a few hundred years after the pilgrims drove up. Why the rush to push Myanmar to do what took us forever to do? But only after we’d slaughtered a few million of those we’d “removed” from their homes.
Of course there is lots of emotion around these topics and we have approved the past few comments to give a flavour of how people feel. But let’s see if we can’t raise the tone of discussion…
Imagine, for a moment, that you have to sit down face-to-face with each other. I doubt that this intense tone, and the put-downs that go with it, would get the discussion very far.
Comments that aren’t collegial, respectful, empathetic will receive short shrift and can find space in our bulging trash can. There are plenty of other places in this great wide Internet for vitriol and malice.
We’ve seen this movie before, Davies.
Laos–1980s “Genocide against the Hmong”. It wasn’t genocide; there are a few hundred thousand Hmong still in Laos. The dead ones were anti-regime guerrillas who lost their war.
Cambodia: 1980s border inflows. Driven by “Vietnamese aggression against the lawful government in Cambodia (Pol Pot)”. Those migrants told me in 1983 that they had been held hostage by the Khmer Rouge and other border bandits who’d formed the “Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea.”
Burma 2015? nothing new under the sun.
Your patent nonsense is hilarious. I have said repeatedly that the genocide against Bengali Muslims by Punjabi Muslims in 1971 was sinful, wrong and repugnant. Perhaps you can’t read ! I have also said that it is no excuse whatsoever for the mistreatment of minorities by Muslim Bangladeshis. Your claim such things do not happen is laughable. Shi’ites, Ahmadis, Sufis and Ismailis are all killed by Sunni Bengali terrorist groups (Jaish-e-Islami and Hizb-ut-Tahrir) and NO amount of Taqiyya and lying on your part will ever change that. Bangladesh has more imprisoned journalists, per-capita, than any other nation. Bangladeshi human rights activists have been killed repeatedly. Your garbled nonsense is mere Taqiyya. Buddhists, Hindus and Christians are massacred in Bangladesh all the time, as well as non-Sunni Bangladeshis. This has been reported for 20 years. Please go and kowtow to Sheikh Hasina, and don’t waste my time with your Islamic excuses.
Your mentioning Jews is an obvious, and classical, anti-Semitic diversionary tactic, and you do it very poorly,.
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Democracy worship in Thailand
With such a complicated and multifaceted network, democracy has many obstacles,
When in history has not the establishment of democracy faced many obstacles?
How can an improved form of democracy be implemented without even an inferior form of democracy established within which to argue?
That is not to say that a comprehensive program of civic education is not sorely needed in Thailand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy#Other_types_of_democracy
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
How many generations does it take to become a citizen of any country? What about the many ethnic minorities in Burma who are classified as Burmese?
For your information a death camp is where people are beaten and starved to death as well as murdered and raped.
Why don’t you get a whistle out instead?
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
The “Rohingya” are not, never have been, and never will be, anything other than illegal Bangladeshi migrants. They have no historical, cultural or ethnic origins in Myanmar and never will. You are wrong and no amount of shill dichotomous Leftist-Islamism will change that fact. They are not Burmese and they do not die in “death camps”, claims of “genocide” made by young na├пve NGO workers, far too young to have seen Buchenwald, Dachau, Auschwitz, the Bataan Death March, or the Japanese POW camps (where my uncle spent 12 years) spread over Malaya and what is now Indonesia.
Wait till I get my harp and lute so I can hear some more Orwellian “Arakan Daze”….
Democracy worship in Thailand
A good overall assessment of the situation. The like the terms democracy worship and the democracy cult. I think it is a reality that democracy is placed on a pedestal in Thailand…
I am not sure if what you are saying is all that different Roy? Just a more in-depth view…
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
Najib lied when he stated that he was shocked to learn about mass graves on the border. He and many others have turned a blind eye to people smuggling as to many people of political influence, on both sides of the border, have made a fortune from this trade.
Peter Cohen you are wrong to state that the Rohingya is a problem for Bangladesh as most Rohingya are actually Burmese that died in these death camps.
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
Not really Peter,
PM Najib Razak is not a hypocrite.
He has just learned the art of speaking like a true politician (from his many Western advisors), nuanced and sophisticated — targeting different message to different groups.
How is Najib Razak different from Tony Blair, George Bush Jr, or for that matter Tony Abbot or Barack Obama?
Rohingya crisis: nothing from nothing
Hmmm. AQ/Al Shabbab Appeal to Muslims re Rohingya refugee crisis – Don’t surrender their fate to ‘apostate’ Govts, look after them personally.
http://shoutussalam.org/2015/05/seruan-mujahidin-al-shabab-seruan-darurat-untuk-aksi-pertolongan-muslim-rohingya/
Rice, repression and rule by force
Thank you James for the kind invitation, but I don’t think I qualify.
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
Prime Minister Najib is a confirmed hypocrite. No Malaysian gives a damn what he has to say about anything in the universe. He has reversed himself on “liberalism” and Islam, once every week. I cannot decide if he is an Islamic hardliner or a tolerant Muslim. Malaysians decided long ago that he is a fool, disingenuous and his decisions are made by Home Minister, Zahid Hamidi, who he is deathly afraid of, and his wife Rosmah, who he is even more afraid of. Najib is an embarrassment to a nation that already suffered through 22 years of Mahathirian temper-tantrums and megalomaniacal insanity. UMNO is not even looking after its own citizens; they have no business worrying about Bangladeshi “Rohingya” which is Dhaka’s problem. Furthermore, though Muslim, they don’t look ‘Malay enough’ to win UMNO illegal votes.
Democracy worship in Thailand
This article would be more acceptble if it did not argue that democracy has been elevated to a cult status. It shows a lack of understanding of reality.
Within both the red and yellow shirt movements there is a myriad of opinions.
On the red side fighting for democracy we have capitalists and people who want to go down the French path to democracy.
On the yellow side we have people wanting to maintain their status, protect themselves from prosecution and the corrupt military.
In simple terms the Reds want democracy to finally arrive in Thailand and the yellows don’t.
Once democracy, in a limited form, returns to Thailand there will eventually be a split within the Red camp as the united call for democracy will be achieved.
Only a real political party can change the status quo and as to date I haven’t seen this party with a real political programme and a fully democratic structure.
As far as the so called networks are concerned they are fighting for survival as shown in the recent power struggle in the palace. Nobody really knows what will happen when the king finally meets his maker as discussing this will get you upto 15 years in prison.
LM should be scrapped to enable the people to openly discuss Thailand’s rotten history truthfully.
Rohingya as a regional conundrum
Not exclusively so. The state of Arakan, predecessor to the contemporary Rohingya identity has a long history with Burma. The Burmese were in regular conflicts with Arakanese states for several hundred years before arrival of the British, many of these ending up in Arakanese soldier doing the usual business of pillaging and burning.
I don’t think the hatred stems from that either, there used to be Mujahideen operating when Burma was formed, and today Rohinya supposedly gets special treatment from the world press. No, I think it’s the fear of the different, in this case your regular Burmese buddhist can find little in common with Rohinya culture and religion, which appears to be almost identical to neighboring Bangladesh. They are viewed as an outsider and a threat to Burmese cultural dominancy in the region. This mentality that alienate difference has always been prevalent in the world, and especially with a government like this the radical Burmese are able to subject Rohinyans to the publicized de-humanizing treatments.
One possible solution, which is never going to happen is to grant Rohinya more autonomy and force the Burmese nationalists to back off.
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
This argument is completely unconvincing. Thailand has been brought to its knees by interest groups.
Indonesia and the Rohingya: de-legitimising democracy?
Burma is not “massacring” its Muslims but it makes for great Islamic propaganda, especially as Muslims are massacring each other in Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Bangladesh, well everywhere in the Islamic World. Nice Taqiyya, but it don’t wash.
Since Bangladesh created the overflow in population, it is their problem.
Rohingya as a regional conundrum
My understanding is that, the British during their colonial era, brought in the Rohinyas to police and control the Burmese people. Suffice to say that there were atrocities by the hands of the Rohinyas against the Burmese. This has left a festering wound bordering on outright hatred throughout Burma that has continued to this day. That period was such a painful period for the Burmese people that even our Noble prize winning Lady is deafeningly silent on this issue.
Yes, based on humanitarian ethos, Burma should forgive, if not forget, and assilmilate the Rohinyas into their own conclave under and within the protection of Burmese law. However, the Brits and Western polyannas should also realize their complicity in this festering wound. Support should be given morally and financially to Burma to help and aid in the relocation of these homeless people. Finger-pointing is well and good, but it serves no pupose if there ae no concrete action plans to end and resolve this humanitariona issue.
Indonesia and the Rohingya: de-legitimising democracy?
You have missed the basic point- that Burma is massacring its Muslims. That is the cause of this crisis. How is that Bangladesh’s problem?
Rohingya crisis: nothing from nothing
Dr Mathew Davies see this situation typically from a western POV: HR.
This may be a correct view at this point in time where refugees are afloat in the bay of Bengal.
Lest being accused of being a Necolonist
How about the the father of all problems and related ?
1) Unmitigated over population.
2) The zero prospect of assimilation.
3) The constant reality of secession, as in southern Thailand , and Myanmar trying to prevent.
4) The constant none contribution through Nepotism culturally and financially.
JUst waiting for the other shoe of the west to drop, calling everyone Islamophobe and racist.
The good news is those labeling just DO NOT wash in Myanmar or Thailand, the bad news is the Kalar are suffering due to their above mentioned family of problems.
Rohingya as a regional conundrum
After WW II in “civilized” Europe, millions of people were driven out of their homes after the nazis were defeated, thanks chiefly to the Soviet Army. Many of these were Germans who were told in no uncertain terms there was no room for them in Czechoslovakia and Poland. When they tarried, they were killed. When Myanmar got its freedom from Britain, they earned the right to determine who was a citizen and who was a squatter. In the US, our hands aren’t clean: our surviving aboriginal inhabitants weren’t universally accorded citizenship until 1921 a few hundred years after the pilgrims drove up. Why the rush to push Myanmar to do what took us forever to do? But only after we’d slaughtered a few million of those we’d “removed” from their homes.
Islam and the state in Myanmar
Thanks everyone,
Of course there is lots of emotion around these topics and we have approved the past few comments to give a flavour of how people feel. But let’s see if we can’t raise the tone of discussion…
Imagine, for a moment, that you have to sit down face-to-face with each other. I doubt that this intense tone, and the put-downs that go with it, would get the discussion very far.
Comments that aren’t collegial, respectful, empathetic will receive short shrift and can find space in our bulging trash can. There are plenty of other places in this great wide Internet for vitriol and malice.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Rohingya crisis: nothing from nothing
We’ve seen this movie before, Davies.
Laos–1980s “Genocide against the Hmong”. It wasn’t genocide; there are a few hundred thousand Hmong still in Laos. The dead ones were anti-regime guerrillas who lost their war.
Cambodia: 1980s border inflows. Driven by “Vietnamese aggression against the lawful government in Cambodia (Pol Pot)”. Those migrants told me in 1983 that they had been held hostage by the Khmer Rouge and other border bandits who’d formed the “Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea.”
Burma 2015? nothing new under the sun.
Islam and the state in Myanmar
Your patent nonsense is hilarious. I have said repeatedly that the genocide against Bengali Muslims by Punjabi Muslims in 1971 was sinful, wrong and repugnant. Perhaps you can’t read ! I have also said that it is no excuse whatsoever for the mistreatment of minorities by Muslim Bangladeshis. Your claim such things do not happen is laughable. Shi’ites, Ahmadis, Sufis and Ismailis are all killed by Sunni Bengali terrorist groups (Jaish-e-Islami and Hizb-ut-Tahrir) and NO amount of Taqiyya and lying on your part will ever change that. Bangladesh has more imprisoned journalists, per-capita, than any other nation. Bangladeshi human rights activists have been killed repeatedly. Your garbled nonsense is mere Taqiyya. Buddhists, Hindus and Christians are massacred in Bangladesh all the time, as well as non-Sunni Bangladeshis. This has been reported for 20 years. Please go and kowtow to Sheikh Hasina, and don’t waste my time with your Islamic excuses.
Your mentioning Jews is an obvious, and classical, anti-Semitic diversionary tactic, and you do it very poorly,.