Indonesia behaved with great cultural insensitivity towards Australia by murdering the journalists in Balibo and Dili in 1975. Australia would be right in attempting–to bring those responsible to justice. Or perhaps not? Such an attempt might trouble the delicate sensitivities of Indonesia.
Excellent overview by Prof. Farrelly. Far too many people still being overwhelmed by past grievances and frustrations and unable to see and admit that while far from.’good’, improvements are being made throughout all sectors of society. Critics need to remember that most of the population remain woefully undereducated and unskilled. Quick and smooth progress can never be expected. But unfortunately ‘government-bashing’ remains fashionable and politically correct.
It is nearly impossible to say something about the role the Thai monarch and the monarchy plays in the hearts and minds of the Thai people in general. An article by Serhat Unaldi ‘Working towards the Monarchy and its Discontents: Anti-Royal Graffiti in Downtown Bangkok’ (in september 2010), J. of Contemporary Asia, 2014 gives a glimpse of the frustrations of many people written in often funny and sarcastic ways.
I can only give an impression based on many private talks with Thais of all walks of life and I would be delighted to hear what others have heard.
Most people say they love and revere the present monarch but it often sounds somewhat artificial and flat like a student rehearsing a lesson. They are not really enthousiastic. I miss real feeling.
Some people just stiffen up and are unable to answer the question what they think is going to happen if the present monarch passes away. A majority of the people who can or want to answer tell me they don’t want the monarchy to continue and prefer a republic (some add: like China).
Of course I’m not able to say how common these sentiments are.
Thank you for your comment. My contributions are meant to be hilarious. Politics and international affairs would be unbearable to follow if one didn’t have a sense of humour.
Following on from Ken Ward’s reply, does Pierre Marthinus also not remember Agung Laksono calling Singaporeans ‘childish’ for complaining about forest fire haze from Indonesia blanketing their country? Or perhaps Jokowi’s repeated dismissive remarks that Tony Abbott and Dilma Rouseff were only driven by domestic political considerations in opposing the executions, and not by a genuine moral concern? Does this constitute respectful diplomacy? The truth is both sides have made mistakes in their handling of this issue but Marthinus’ analysis is one-sided and insinuating.
Before accusing Australia of hypocrisy, perhaps Mr Pierre Marthinus should have a serious reflection on whether if there’s an element of double standard in his own thinking. For instance, as Ken Ward has pointed out above, it is curious that some inconvenient facts were conveniently left out by the author, perhaps to present a beautified version of what he sees as Indonesia’s tactful diplomacy?
It is also very curious that the author fails to identify various less than tactful elements of Jokowi’s handling of foreign affairs thus far. I am not sure how the sinking of foreign boats can be classified as a respectful or tactful approach to a regional problem, for instance.
I am also not sure how the author could portray some of Indonesian government’s rhetoric toward Australia as tactful. Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno’s “tsunami of asylum-seekers” threat is a colourful example of this.
I wonder if this selectivity is a form of hypocrisy or simply a manifestation of ignorance?
As Mr Pierre Marthinus suggested in the article, I guess this tends to happen when “half-bred” Australianists/Indonesianists run around on “media marathon” to provide ready-made explanations to the current hottest issues in the Name of self-promotion.
Lastly, perhaps the article should be more accurately titled as “a” view from Jakarta instead of “the view,” since the view expressed by the author is not as widely shared in Jakarta as he may have hoped. I would suggest a new title, “Australia-Indonesia: the view from my office at Pacific Place” for accuracy’s sake.
Reading your commentary on the New Mandala has become one of my favourite things to do on the internet. Thank you for your insightful and often hilarious contributions.
I suppose according to this analysis, former Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, and presidential rival Prabowo Subianto, are also lacking in the “subtle cultural dimension of Asian diplomacy and values”… since they also pressed Jokowi to reconsider the executions.
No. This travesty is fully on President Jokowi- and other power brokers in his party- and he will deservedly bear all of the international approbrium.
I don’t know when this prolific writer on Australia’s various iniquities began to following international affairs. It could have been quite recently, certainly since 2011. According to Mr Marthinus:
“in stark contrast to Australian diplomacy, Indonesian advocacy is done in a respectful manner, neither condemning nor retaliating when executions have to be carried out and, most importantly, Jakarta would never allow Saudi Arabia to lose face domestically as well as internationally over the issue.”
Does he not know that President Yudhoyono withdrew his ambassador from Riyadh in 2011 in protest at the execution, not notified in advance to the Indonesian government, of Ruyati binti Satubi? He then announced, through Manpower Minister Muhaimin Iskandar, a ban on Indonesian domestic servants seeking work in Saudi Arabia. This was quite some retaliation. Admittedly, such is the nature of the Saudi political system that perhaps King Abdullah didn’t lose face domestically. But I don’t think SBY withdrew his ambassador in order to enhance the king’s domestic status.
I probably qualify either as a half-bred Indonesianist or as a half-instinct full-bred Indonesianist. Would Mr Marthinus rate himself as a half-bred Australianist or a full-bred one?
One would like to know why Serge Atlaoui has been granted at least a temporary stay of execution. President Hollande took a pretty strong stance on this issue. Could that have had some influence in bringing about the reprieve? A victory, perhaps, for half-bred Indonesianists in France?
Thanks for your comment. I wasn’t aware of this event.
I agree there are ways we could harm Indonesia. Apart from what you mentioned, we could have tried to create a united front of the countries who had citizens due to be executed, beginning with the first batch, not just the second in which there were two of our own citizens.
What I meant was that Jokowi seems to have his eye fixed on the existing great powers and he has said publicly at least twice that he wants to be seated near the leaders of great powers at international meetings. He also sees the large number of islands and ethnic groups within the Indonesian archipelago as qualifying Indonesia for great power status.
Being seated next to the Australian prime minister won’t help him. Now that Abbott has decided not to maintain his rage any longer, Jokowi, who so prizes ‘pride and dignity’, has even less need to be photographed with him.
Reminds me of Amy Chua’s acclaimed book World on Fire about evangelization of market democracy and elite minorities.
Even more interestingly her later books Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother (plus her WSJ essay Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior) and The Triple Package (co-authored with her Jewish fellow academic husband) caused an uproar exactly on account of a superiority complex, read chauvinist/racist if you will, as the first requisite.
An institution building exercise in an authoritarian direction. The armed elites in Thailand and Burma are kindred spirits displaying insatiable greed and unfettered boundless ego. Let’s make that constitutional.
“Why should any Southeast Asians – leader or not – listen to Australian tantrums on the subject?”
Because like them or not, clumsy or not, Australia is part of the Asian region, and is a neighbour to Indonesia. The kind of hostilities that are going on here are quite primitive and show no evidence of a collaborative culture or vision from all parties. They might as well be from other planets.
There is a need for a higher level of engagement involving people outside the political spectrum, without fear or bravado.
I fear that in the long run, all that is happening now is only going to enlarge the present rift to the breaking point and possibly civil war. the “people”(or subjects) are presently watching and waiting to see what comes of all that is going on since November 2013.
The executions were illegal under Indonesian law and international law.
The Indonesian state engages in murder as a political strategy.
Decision makers in Jakarta need to consider whether they hold the intellectual and cultural competency, and the “subtle” sensibilities to engage with the rest of the entire civilised world.
It is sometimes said that in international politics, China has a long memory.
Well, Australians can also have long memories. And everyday Australians will long remember Jokowi’s bloodlust.
This affair has clearly indicated that Australia and Indonesia are two very different societies, with at times starkly different dominant moral values. Australia moves away from traditional Western alliances and hitches their wagon to Indonesia and Asia at some risk.
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Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Indonesia behaved with great cultural insensitivity towards Australia by murdering the journalists in Balibo and Dili in 1975. Australia would be right in attempting–to bring those responsible to justice. Or perhaps not? Such an attempt might trouble the delicate sensitivities of Indonesia.
Change you can depend on
Excellent overview by Prof. Farrelly. Far too many people still being overwhelmed by past grievances and frustrations and unable to see and admit that while far from.’good’, improvements are being made throughout all sectors of society. Critics need to remember that most of the population remain woefully undereducated and unskilled. Quick and smooth progress can never be expected. But unfortunately ‘government-bashing’ remains fashionable and politically correct.
Succession and legitimacy: Vajiralongkorn and T├┤n Duc Thang
It is nearly impossible to say something about the role the Thai monarch and the monarchy plays in the hearts and minds of the Thai people in general. An article by Serhat Unaldi ‘Working towards the Monarchy and its Discontents: Anti-Royal Graffiti in Downtown Bangkok’ (in september 2010), J. of Contemporary Asia, 2014 gives a glimpse of the frustrations of many people written in often funny and sarcastic ways.
I can only give an impression based on many private talks with Thais of all walks of life and I would be delighted to hear what others have heard.
Most people say they love and revere the present monarch but it often sounds somewhat artificial and flat like a student rehearsing a lesson. They are not really enthousiastic. I miss real feeling.
Some people just stiffen up and are unable to answer the question what they think is going to happen if the present monarch passes away. A majority of the people who can or want to answer tell me they don’t want the monarchy to continue and prefer a republic (some add: like China).
Of course I’m not able to say how common these sentiments are.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Thank you for your comment. My contributions are meant to be hilarious. Politics and international affairs would be unbearable to follow if one didn’t have a sense of humour.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Peter — Tony Abbot and Najib Razak are soul mates.
http://www.newmandala.org/2014/09/16/malaysia-day-2/
http://www.newmandala.org/2014/09/28/islam-a-religion-of-peace/
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Following on from Ken Ward’s reply, does Pierre Marthinus also not remember Agung Laksono calling Singaporeans ‘childish’ for complaining about forest fire haze from Indonesia blanketing their country? Or perhaps Jokowi’s repeated dismissive remarks that Tony Abbott and Dilma Rouseff were only driven by domestic political considerations in opposing the executions, and not by a genuine moral concern? Does this constitute respectful diplomacy? The truth is both sides have made mistakes in their handling of this issue but Marthinus’ analysis is one-sided and insinuating.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Before accusing Australia of hypocrisy, perhaps Mr Pierre Marthinus should have a serious reflection on whether if there’s an element of double standard in his own thinking. For instance, as Ken Ward has pointed out above, it is curious that some inconvenient facts were conveniently left out by the author, perhaps to present a beautified version of what he sees as Indonesia’s tactful diplomacy?
It is also very curious that the author fails to identify various less than tactful elements of Jokowi’s handling of foreign affairs thus far. I am not sure how the sinking of foreign boats can be classified as a respectful or tactful approach to a regional problem, for instance.
I am also not sure how the author could portray some of Indonesian government’s rhetoric toward Australia as tactful. Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno’s “tsunami of asylum-seekers” threat is a colourful example of this.
I wonder if this selectivity is a form of hypocrisy or simply a manifestation of ignorance?
As Mr Pierre Marthinus suggested in the article, I guess this tends to happen when “half-bred” Australianists/Indonesianists run around on “media marathon” to provide ready-made explanations to the current hottest issues in the Name of self-promotion.
Lastly, perhaps the article should be more accurately titled as “a” view from Jakarta instead of “the view,” since the view expressed by the author is not as widely shared in Jakarta as he may have hoped. I would suggest a new title, “Australia-Indonesia: the view from my office at Pacific Place” for accuracy’s sake.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Reading your commentary on the New Mandala has become one of my favourite things to do on the internet. Thank you for your insightful and often hilarious contributions.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
I suppose according to this analysis, former Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, and presidential rival Prabowo Subianto, are also lacking in the “subtle cultural dimension of Asian diplomacy and values”… since they also pressed Jokowi to reconsider the executions.
No. This travesty is fully on President Jokowi- and other power brokers in his party- and he will deservedly bear all of the international approbrium.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
I don’t know when this prolific writer on Australia’s various iniquities began to following international affairs. It could have been quite recently, certainly since 2011. According to Mr Marthinus:
“in stark contrast to Australian diplomacy, Indonesian advocacy is done in a respectful manner, neither condemning nor retaliating when executions have to be carried out and, most importantly, Jakarta would never allow Saudi Arabia to lose face domestically as well as internationally over the issue.”
Does he not know that President Yudhoyono withdrew his ambassador from Riyadh in 2011 in protest at the execution, not notified in advance to the Indonesian government, of Ruyati binti Satubi? He then announced, through Manpower Minister Muhaimin Iskandar, a ban on Indonesian domestic servants seeking work in Saudi Arabia. This was quite some retaliation. Admittedly, such is the nature of the Saudi political system that perhaps King Abdullah didn’t lose face domestically. But I don’t think SBY withdrew his ambassador in order to enhance the king’s domestic status.
I probably qualify either as a half-bred Indonesianist or as a half-instinct full-bred Indonesianist. Would Mr Marthinus rate himself as a half-bred Australianist or a full-bred one?
One would like to know why Serge Atlaoui has been granted at least a temporary stay of execution. President Hollande took a pretty strong stance on this issue. Could that have had some influence in bringing about the reprieve? A victory, perhaps, for half-bred Indonesianists in France?
The power of redemption
Thanks for your comment. I wasn’t aware of this event.
I agree there are ways we could harm Indonesia. Apart from what you mentioned, we could have tried to create a united front of the countries who had citizens due to be executed, beginning with the first batch, not just the second in which there were two of our own citizens.
What I meant was that Jokowi seems to have his eye fixed on the existing great powers and he has said publicly at least twice that he wants to be seated near the leaders of great powers at international meetings. He also sees the large number of islands and ethnic groups within the Indonesian archipelago as qualifying Indonesia for great power status.
Being seated next to the Australian prime minister won’t help him. Now that Abbott has decided not to maintain his rage any longer, Jokowi, who so prizes ‘pride and dignity’, has even less need to be photographed with him.
The double captivity of ‘Chinese privilege’
Reminds me of Amy Chua’s acclaimed book World on Fire about evangelization of market democracy and elite minorities.
Even more interestingly her later books Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother (plus her WSJ essay Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior) and The Triple Package (co-authored with her Jewish fellow academic husband) caused an uproar exactly on account of a superiority complex, read chauvinist/racist if you will, as the first requisite.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Spot on!
Pol-la-muang: The making of superior Thais
An institution building exercise in an authoritarian direction. The armed elites in Thailand and Burma are kindred spirits displaying insatiable greed and unfettered boundless ego. Let’s make that constitutional.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
“Why should any Southeast Asians – leader or not – listen to Australian tantrums on the subject?”
Because like them or not, clumsy or not, Australia is part of the Asian region, and is a neighbour to Indonesia. The kind of hostilities that are going on here are quite primitive and show no evidence of a collaborative culture or vision from all parties. They might as well be from other planets.
There is a need for a higher level of engagement involving people outside the political spectrum, without fear or bravado.
Pol-la-muang: The making of superior Thais
I fear that in the long run, all that is happening now is only going to enlarge the present rift to the breaking point and possibly civil war. the “people”(or subjects) are presently watching and waiting to see what comes of all that is going on since November 2013.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Observations: Prima
Writing: Extremely good!
Thank you.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
The executions were illegal under Indonesian law and international law.
The Indonesian state engages in murder as a political strategy.
Decision makers in Jakarta need to consider whether they hold the intellectual and cultural competency, and the “subtle” sensibilities to engage with the rest of the entire civilised world.
Jokowi should have remained a furniture salesman.
The power of redemption
It is sometimes said that in international politics, China has a long memory.
Well, Australians can also have long memories. And everyday Australians will long remember Jokowi’s bloodlust.
This affair has clearly indicated that Australia and Indonesia are two very different societies, with at times starkly different dominant moral values. Australia moves away from traditional Western alliances and hitches their wagon to Indonesia and Asia at some risk.
Australia-Indonesia: the view from Jakarta
Or This was simply a proxy Australian execution designed to send a message to would be drug smugglers. Sometimes the lady doth protest too loudly.