Could it be that Pearshaped is also predicated on a little hypocrisy ? I see no comment on modern-day Turkey, the origin of the vast majority of the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide (Kurds committed about 25 % of the killing; killing, yes, but not as you would like to infer). Unlike Turkish President Erdogan, PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan HAS apologized to the Kurds, and I notice, which Pearshaped seems not too, that Armenians and Assyrians seem to be far angrier with TURKS today, than with the far fewer Kurdish antecedents that killed them. Could that be because the Kurds apologized and gave refuge to Iraqi Christians in Iraqi Kurdistan recently ? Refuge NOT afforded by Turkey. Before you sink further, in your accusations against a people you know nothing about (the Kurds), you might also want to cast aspersions against modern Germans, Japanese, Chinese (30 million that died under Mao), Australians, Americans, well practically everybody that killed someone else; the problem is, except for the Kurds, I don’t see too many Chinese and Japanese and Germans on the Syrian front. And to remind you of a little history, Iraqi Kurdistan is a mere 25 % of the total land once occupied, historically, by the culturally-unique Kurds, who were once part of a whole Empire.
Land stolen by the Ottomans, the Syrian and Iraqi Arabs, and Iran. I suggest, instead of commenting about subjects that you are unfamiliar with, you ask Armenians and Chaldeans, with whom do they have greater grievance, due to the 1915 Armenian and Assyrian (and Greek and
Bulgarian and Kurdish) Genocide, Kurds or Turks ? As my Armenian dentist already indicated what I suspected she would say,
Your riposte merely defames Kurds and does nothing else. Yes, the Kurds today REMAIN on the correct side of the equation, as do the Germans, having made great effort for atoning for past crimes. Be careful before you cast the first stones, whether in glass houses, or not.
Olivia may have forgotten to mention that the photo of Luke Simpkins was taken for The Age, Sydney Morning Herald and other Fairfax publications by photographer Steve Sandford.
The story of Mr Simpkins’ illegal crossing of two borders to visit the rebels was exclusive to Fairfax.
Peter, were the Kurds on the correct side of the equation when their militias became the Turks’ shock troops who perpetrated genocide upon the Armenian and Assyrian Christians? Or did they did do it for money power and land? Could it be that the side of the equation they take now is also predicated upon money power and land?
Just to understand a little better where you are coming from, here’s a question: As a muslim, and irrespective as to whether you choose to describe yourself as moderate, extreme or whatever, you do wish to see the world governed by sharia law, correct? Indeed, can one even claim to be a muslim at all if one does not hold this desire?
Regards,
Mariner
Well why does Peking get childish temper tantrums, each time Dalai Lama meets some Western leader. This win-win trade Silk Road one Belt stuff that Peking talks about is pure propaganda. China definitely has global strategic ambitions of hegemony. China’s is counter-attacking the US attempt to pivot in Asia. The Thai coup an example.
You stated that why only the Kurds and few western non Muslims fighting against Isil in Kobani?Kobani is a Kurdish town in Syria and naturally one would expect the Kurdish will spearhead this battle.As for the non reporting of other groups fighting in the newsmedias,that is not true.Several newsmwdia had reported the presence and photos of General Sulayman of Iran amongst the Iraqi forces and they have reported of their success in pushing the Isil forces from Diyala province in Iraq.My question to you is why is Israel helping these extremist groups like giving medical treatments to Al Qaeda affiliated group like Al Nusra Front?Even Natanyahu had been reported to visit the injured extremist fighters in Israeli Hospital.
Thai Military is not so much “pro US” as “pro-power-that-be”, just as US is not so much uphold “Thai democracy” as “preventing close ties with China”. The Thai was “pro US” due mainly in mutual interest to resist Communism during Indochina Wars.
Wikileaks cable on 2006 coup, their reaction compare to 2014 coup, and the degree of China sphere of influence basically summed up the US interest in Thailand. All the world’s a stage,
‘meaning, in effect, all who are not modern, liberal, secular, democratic, pluralist and humanly inclusive Muslims’
Wow, there goes the neighbourhood then! Heller couldn’t have written a better Catch 22. But Don’t you think you’re setting the bar a wee bit too high? I know some members of the CLP in Darwin who would struggle to qualify.
Humanly inclusive Muslim – que?
Oh, I get it, the Clivester is redefining ‘the other’ for us. My reading of the history of our strange little species is that defining ‘the other’ has often led to very bad things being done to them.
Look, apart from not really understanding what ‘humanly inclusive’ means, my big problem with this, and it’s a BIG one, is that anyone can replace the word ‘Muslim’ with a group, demographic, minority of your own choice, to justify doing bad things to them. Try it. [a hypothetical – don’t actually do it]
Replacing ‘Muslim’ with ‘Aboriginal,’ AO Neville in the 20s and 30s could have used this formulation to justify his racial policies, assimilation or worse.
The moral philosphy is shaky, the scholarship no better. Just three Abrahamic religions? Oh well, let’s ignore Baha’i. And lets just skim over Ahmadiyyah, despite it being a touchstone issue in the debate over the Seal of the Prophet [Katam an Nabiyyin]. If the Ahmadis can accept and interpret the whole of the Quran, including the Seal of the Prophet, and produce a religion of tolerance and peace, they demonstrate that the verse the Clivester so frets about is not at the root of the problem. Ahmadis are persecuted, and a debate continues whether they remain a part of Islam or should be considered a separate religion.
Which brings us back to money power prestige revenge, not religion, as the real motivators. And ambitious individuals who use religion to attain the rest.
There is a lot of chatter, and “Eye for an Eye” threats. I am as revolted by the immolation of the Jordanian pilot, as King Abdullah is, but does executing two captured ISIS jihadists, based on 1400-year old Middle-Eastern precepts, help end the conflict ? I ask, again, with all the ANGST about ISIS, from Morocco to Indonesia, exactly how MANY Muslims have joined the Kurds to fight AGAINST Daesh, out of 1.6 billion Muslims ? Assad, Hezbollah and Iraq Shi’ite pawns of Iran, who’s goal is the survival of Shi’ite interests, do NOT count as credible anti-Daesh deterrent forces. How many Algerians, Qataris, Turks, Malays, Indonesians, Lebanese, Yemenis, Iraqis, Egyptians, Palestinians and Iranians, saved Assyrian Christians and Yazidi people ? How many ? As I recall, they all escaped into Mount Sinjar and Iraqi Kurdistan, where they were not routinely raped, enslaved and tortured. If it walks like a camel, smells like a camel, and looks like a camel, it isn’t an elephant.
New Mandala readers may be interested in this BBC survey of major editorials in the middle east (in relation to the burning of the captured Jordanian pilot by ISIS) — mainly calling for reforms within the understanding of Islam.
Bashar Assad is fighting to protect himself. Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah are fighting to protect Hezbollah. Lebanese Sunnis are either neutral or have joined ISIS. Lebanese Maronites are supporting Assad, who has massacred 220,000 innocent Syrians. Iraqi Sh’ites are doing nothing against ISIS at all, and in fact are supporting Iran, who is funding Hamas and Hezbollah. The Turks have
stated they do not want to be involved, even
though they are members of NATO. There are several planes committed by Jordan and Saudi Arabia, but no ground troops, which remain
SOLELY KURDISH Peshmerga and Kurdish Syrian forces + a few WESTERN non-Muslims freelance
fighters. Your assertion that there are Iraqi, Syrian, Lebanese and Iranian fighters on the ground is bogus, propaganda and patent nonsense. Neither Al-Jazeera nor BBC nor AP nor Christian Science Monitor nor even local Arab Press has ever reported what you falsely claim, which the Kurds would laugh at. Just look at the battle at Kobani in Syria, which was recently ended, which was fought ONLY by Kurds against Daesh/ISIS. Your claims are groundless, absurd and insulting to the Kurdish people who have taken the burden that all other Muslims have not.
Peter Cohen
You said why only the Kurdish are primarily resisting the Daesh?Havent you read about the the thousands of Iraqis,Syrians,Lebanese andIranians fighting the Daesh group or you have a blinker on you eyes or you are plain Islamophobe who wishes or wants the others to see the negative thins about Muslims.I think you have a preconceived agenda .
The Thai military is pro Chinese now. In fact, the Thai military will cozy up to any one who will be willing to look the other way while they oppress and rob the poor Thais.
The present crop of Thai generals seem to be more “pro Peking” than ” pro US”. They just love to play around with American weaponry (better than Chinese?).
Well, yes, Australia did win that Cup. Fine. If you care about such things. But no cups won here for English language proficiency. “Runneth” is an archaic way of saying “runs”. But the correct headline here is not “Will Australia’s cup RUNS over in Asia?” but “Will Australia’s cup RUN over in Asia?” Here, I feel that I have simply been run over and overrun by embarrassing malapropism!
Bearing in mind the experience of the last 83 years, not excluding the circumstances that have led to the establishment of the present charter drafting committee, any honest and realistically drafted charter should include a primary clause to the effect that it will only remain in effect for just as long as the military chooses to allow it and that, if so minded, they may at any time and at their own complete discretion abrogate it absolutely.
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On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
Some Kurds have acknowledged and apologised for the part played in those genocides. The testimony of Joseph Zaya – http://www.aina.org/releases/20140423134125.htm
Many Christians remain distrustful, give examples of forced assimilation, and would prefer their own autonomous region in Nineveh.
The point though, is that the motivators are power, money land etc. Not religion.
Australia’s leadership spill, with a Myanmar twist
Great article! Good to see New Mandala the first to pick up the inconsistencies in the #libspill story!
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
Could it be that Pearshaped is also predicated on a little hypocrisy ? I see no comment on modern-day Turkey, the origin of the vast majority of the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide (Kurds committed about 25 % of the killing; killing, yes, but not as you would like to infer). Unlike Turkish President Erdogan, PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan HAS apologized to the Kurds, and I notice, which Pearshaped seems not too, that Armenians and Assyrians seem to be far angrier with TURKS today, than with the far fewer Kurdish antecedents that killed them. Could that be because the Kurds apologized and gave refuge to Iraqi Christians in Iraqi Kurdistan recently ? Refuge NOT afforded by Turkey. Before you sink further, in your accusations against a people you know nothing about (the Kurds), you might also want to cast aspersions against modern Germans, Japanese, Chinese (30 million that died under Mao), Australians, Americans, well practically everybody that killed someone else; the problem is, except for the Kurds, I don’t see too many Chinese and Japanese and Germans on the Syrian front. And to remind you of a little history, Iraqi Kurdistan is a mere 25 % of the total land once occupied, historically, by the culturally-unique Kurds, who were once part of a whole Empire.
Land stolen by the Ottomans, the Syrian and Iraqi Arabs, and Iran. I suggest, instead of commenting about subjects that you are unfamiliar with, you ask Armenians and Chaldeans, with whom do they have greater grievance, due to the 1915 Armenian and Assyrian (and Greek and
Bulgarian and Kurdish) Genocide, Kurds or Turks ? As my Armenian dentist already indicated what I suspected she would say,
Your riposte merely defames Kurds and does nothing else. Yes, the Kurds today REMAIN on the correct side of the equation, as do the Germans, having made great effort for atoning for past crimes. Be careful before you cast the first stones, whether in glass houses, or not.
Australia’s leadership spill, with a Myanmar twist
Olivia may have forgotten to mention that the photo of Luke Simpkins was taken for The Age, Sydney Morning Herald and other Fairfax publications by photographer Steve Sandford.
The story of Mr Simpkins’ illegal crossing of two borders to visit the rebels was exclusive to Fairfax.
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
Peter, were the Kurds on the correct side of the equation when their militias became the Turks’ shock troops who perpetrated genocide upon the Armenian and Assyrian Christians? Or did they did do it for money power and land? Could it be that the side of the equation they take now is also predicated upon money power and land?
A rage against history
Just to understand a little better where you are coming from, here’s a question: As a muslim, and irrespective as to whether you choose to describe yourself as moderate, extreme or whatever, you do wish to see the world governed by sharia law, correct? Indeed, can one even claim to be a muslim at all if one does not hold this desire?
Regards,
Mariner
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
Well why does Peking get childish temper tantrums, each time Dalai Lama meets some Western leader. This win-win trade Silk Road one Belt stuff that Peking talks about is pure propaganda. China definitely has global strategic ambitions of hegemony. China’s is counter-attacking the US attempt to pivot in Asia. The Thai coup an example.
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
You stated that why only the Kurds and few western non Muslims fighting against Isil in Kobani?Kobani is a Kurdish town in Syria and naturally one would expect the Kurdish will spearhead this battle.As for the non reporting of other groups fighting in the newsmedias,that is not true.Several newsmwdia had reported the presence and photos of General Sulayman of Iran amongst the Iraqi forces and they have reported of their success in pushing the Isil forces from Diyala province in Iraq.My question to you is why is Israel helping these extremist groups like giving medical treatments to Al Qaeda affiliated group like Al Nusra Front?Even Natanyahu had been reported to visit the injured extremist fighters in Israeli Hospital.
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
Ha Ha, the US has been looking the other way for more than 4 decades…
The Chinese just want to trade, they do not care with whom.
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
Thai Military is not so much “pro US” as “pro-power-that-be”, just as US is not so much uphold “Thai democracy” as “preventing close ties with China”. The Thai was “pro US” due mainly in mutual interest to resist Communism during Indochina Wars.
Wikileaks cable on 2006 coup, their reaction compare to 2014 coup, and the degree of China sphere of influence basically summed up the US interest in Thailand. All the world’s a stage,
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
‘meaning, in effect, all who are not modern, liberal, secular, democratic, pluralist and humanly inclusive Muslims’
Wow, there goes the neighbourhood then! Heller couldn’t have written a better Catch 22. But Don’t you think you’re setting the bar a wee bit too high? I know some members of the CLP in Darwin who would struggle to qualify.
Humanly inclusive Muslim – que?
Oh, I get it, the Clivester is redefining ‘the other’ for us. My reading of the history of our strange little species is that defining ‘the other’ has often led to very bad things being done to them.
Look, apart from not really understanding what ‘humanly inclusive’ means, my big problem with this, and it’s a BIG one, is that anyone can replace the word ‘Muslim’ with a group, demographic, minority of your own choice, to justify doing bad things to them. Try it. [a hypothetical – don’t actually do it]
Replacing ‘Muslim’ with ‘Aboriginal,’ AO Neville in the 20s and 30s could have used this formulation to justify his racial policies, assimilation or worse.
The moral philosphy is shaky, the scholarship no better. Just three Abrahamic religions? Oh well, let’s ignore Baha’i. And lets just skim over Ahmadiyyah, despite it being a touchstone issue in the debate over the Seal of the Prophet [Katam an Nabiyyin]. If the Ahmadis can accept and interpret the whole of the Quran, including the Seal of the Prophet, and produce a religion of tolerance and peace, they demonstrate that the verse the Clivester so frets about is not at the root of the problem. Ahmadis are persecuted, and a debate continues whether they remain a part of Islam or should be considered a separate religion.
Which brings us back to money power prestige revenge, not religion, as the real motivators. And ambitious individuals who use religion to attain the rest.
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
There is a lot of chatter, and “Eye for an Eye” threats. I am as revolted by the immolation of the Jordanian pilot, as King Abdullah is, but does executing two captured ISIS jihadists, based on 1400-year old Middle-Eastern precepts, help end the conflict ? I ask, again, with all the ANGST about ISIS, from Morocco to Indonesia, exactly how MANY Muslims have joined the Kurds to fight AGAINST Daesh, out of 1.6 billion Muslims ? Assad, Hezbollah and Iraq Shi’ite pawns of Iran, who’s goal is the survival of Shi’ite interests, do NOT count as credible anti-Daesh deterrent forces. How many Algerians, Qataris, Turks, Malays, Indonesians, Lebanese, Yemenis, Iraqis, Egyptians, Palestinians and Iranians, saved Assyrian Christians and Yazidi people ? How many ? As I recall, they all escaped into Mount Sinjar and Iraqi Kurdistan, where they were not routinely raped, enslaved and tortured. If it walks like a camel, smells like a camel, and looks like a camel, it isn’t an elephant.
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
No wonder Obama is praying together with Dalai Lama today (February 5th)!
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/05/dalai-lama-obama-avoid-direct-meeting-prayer-breakfast
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
New Mandala readers may be interested in this BBC survey of major editorials in the middle east (in relation to the burning of the captured Jordanian pilot by ISIS) — mainly calling for reforms within the understanding of Islam.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31148916
Would be good to see how the major editorials in Southeast Asia compares to those in the middle east.
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
Bashar Assad is fighting to protect himself. Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah are fighting to protect Hezbollah. Lebanese Sunnis are either neutral or have joined ISIS. Lebanese Maronites are supporting Assad, who has massacred 220,000 innocent Syrians. Iraqi Sh’ites are doing nothing against ISIS at all, and in fact are supporting Iran, who is funding Hamas and Hezbollah. The Turks have
stated they do not want to be involved, even
though they are members of NATO. There are several planes committed by Jordan and Saudi Arabia, but no ground troops, which remain
SOLELY KURDISH Peshmerga and Kurdish Syrian forces + a few WESTERN non-Muslims freelance
fighters. Your assertion that there are Iraqi, Syrian, Lebanese and Iranian fighters on the ground is bogus, propaganda and patent nonsense. Neither Al-Jazeera nor BBC nor AP nor Christian Science Monitor nor even local Arab Press has ever reported what you falsely claim, which the Kurds would laugh at. Just look at the battle at Kobani in Syria, which was recently ended, which was fought ONLY by Kurds against Daesh/ISIS. Your claims are groundless, absurd and insulting to the Kurdish people who have taken the burden that all other Muslims have not.
On “supersessionism”: Abrahamic faiths in history
Peter Cohen
You said why only the Kurdish are primarily resisting the Daesh?Havent you read about the the thousands of Iraqis,Syrians,Lebanese andIranians fighting the Daesh group or you have a blinker on you eyes or you are plain Islamophobe who wishes or wants the others to see the negative thins about Muslims.I think you have a preconceived agenda .
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
The Thai military is pro Chinese now. In fact, the Thai military will cozy up to any one who will be willing to look the other way while they oppress and rob the poor Thais.
Soldiers with democratic hearts?
The present crop of Thai generals seem to be more “pro Peking” than ” pro US”. They just love to play around with American weaponry (better than Chinese?).
Will Australia’s cup runneth over in Asia?
Well, yes, Australia did win that Cup. Fine. If you care about such things. But no cups won here for English language proficiency. “Runneth” is an archaic way of saying “runs”. But the correct headline here is not “Will Australia’s cup RUNS over in Asia?” but “Will Australia’s cup RUN over in Asia?” Here, I feel that I have simply been run over and overrun by embarrassing malapropism!
Open Letter Condemning the Thai Constitution
Bearing in mind the experience of the last 83 years, not excluding the circumstances that have led to the establishment of the present charter drafting committee, any honest and realistically drafted charter should include a primary clause to the effect that it will only remain in effect for just as long as the military chooses to allow it and that, if so minded, they may at any time and at their own complete discretion abrogate it absolutely.