Khunying Pornthip may be a capable forensic scientist, but she is hardly world respected and is clearly partisan. I would have gone with “Army favorite and GT200 apologist” as a description.
DNA does lie, but it is very easy to lie with DNA – just switch samples.
You’re correct Hang Tuah. Assuming the reported DNA evidence is unimpeachable and leads to a conviction then a finding of guilt would be appropriate.
No one on the outside can assume knowledge of whether these men are guilty or not.
We CAN however in this instance and at this stage evaluate the investigation (as opposed to the trial) and speculate on what the verdict would mean for the issues at play.
DNA evidence, when forensically validated in court, cannot be refuted by political preferences. Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, MD is a world-respected Forensic Pathologist who does not play favourites. I am quite sure she will be asked to adjudicate the forensic evidence.
You may not like what the DNA evidence reveals, with respect to your political preferences or agenda (if any), but DNA does not lie, if it is a 12-point match and the chain of custody is maintained. Unless the defence can show otherwise with respect to refuting the DNA evidence, “murder will out”. DNA only discriminates between guilt and innocence, and not ideological attributes or leanings.
United States of America led the “West” is the worst perpetrators of human rights of all the humanity and destroyers of the nature by far. Their treachery and deviousness of them is beyond description. (Yet they play the game so well people still suck up to them, talking about Stockholm Syndrome.
Still hope the Chinese hard labour slave industry camps all over the globes and digging up all the minerals poisoning the land is not really regarded as a fantastic model. Not much finesse like the “West” but impact is hardly different.
Lucky Burma, There is now chance to be screwed by both camps. The orgasm may never stop.
I like Rose’s comment that the present constitutional situation is worse than the absolute monarchy. Now, when there is trouble the elected government is always the scapegoat and the monarchy always comes to the rescue. That lie enables the monarchy to be the fomenter of trouble. The monarch would seldom do that in the days of absolute monarchy, when he knew he would ultimately be held responsible.
You get what you deserve. I don’t feel sorry for them not one bit.
Jaurpong? Where was his democracy and freemdom when he and his ilk under the urging of Jae Dang stole Billions under the disasterous rice scheme. A scheme used to buy votes and is now putting Thailand’s new generation under massive debt to pay for these handouts that has never reached the farmers hands. With degraded, missing and low-quality rice in the storehouses.
So easy to overlook corruption on such a massive scale just because you feel sorry for those who perpetrated the crime.
Can you honestly say and confirm that Rose was the writer who is so extremely brave?
Or do you accept it because she has with the support of foreigners and those who seek to undermine a reform to Thailand’s democracy that was debased by thaksin and his gang of majoritarianism.
Firstly, prove to me that Rose was the author of this fiction.
The writing is based on half truths and disseminations. Prevarications that can only come from an English fluent ghost writer.
So this is what New Mandala has come to. Accepting fiction from a supposed author without finding out who is the real writer of the piece. Without knowing who wrote it, it would just become another piece of sh-t; so becoming to NM nowadays.
…Chiang Mai continues to be a tributary state and not part of our territory. It will still be a tributary state as long as we don’t think to eliminate its royalty. But we wish to hold real power … in short, to make it like a machine that we can control or guide forward or back as we please … However, it is necessary to use intelligence more than force; we must not make them feel oppressed…
King Rama V. (Chulalongkorn) to the Siamese Commissioner-General in Chiang Mai, 1883 (quoted in Saraswadee, History of Lan Na, 2005, p. 182)
Is this the “free Siam, as Chulalongkorn clearly intended”?
Professor Edward Said died about 12 years ago. Professor Chomsky is irrelevant, so you can drop your projections in the Suez Canal and move on with your life. You are not Carl Jung, so don’t play mind reader; as you are as wrong as the day is young.
Thanks for writing this – as a lawyer by training I have been curious as to what level of information is known about precolonial Southeast Asian legal systems. I’ll certainly be seeking out some of Dr. Huxley’s work.
In other words, the inimitable Mr Cohen is lecturing us, Spain is west of Suez. It has history, ideas, ideology, strong leaders. It can mount a serious effort toward truth and reconciliation. Indonesia, lying east of Suez, Mr Cohen is telling us, can aspire to none of these things . . .
Sorry for nitpicking, but the lese majesty law is section 112 of the Criminal Code, not of the Constitution. And it does not state “No one can criticize the king and any member of his family, even if such criticisms are based on the truth.” That’s an interpretation, not the actual statute. The actual text is “р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕Фр╕лр╕бр╕┤р╣Ир╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕Ч р╕Фр╕╣р╕лр╕бр╕┤р╣Ир╕Щ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Бр╕кр╕Фр╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕▓р╕Жр╕▓р╕Хр╕бр╕▓р╕Фр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕┤р╕Щр╕╡ р╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕вр╕▓р╕Ч р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕│р╣Ар╕гр╣Зр╕И р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕Чр╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣М р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▓р╕Зр╣Вр╕Чр╕йр╕Ир╕│р╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕Ыр╕╡р╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╕кр╕┤р╕Ър╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕Ыр╕╡” which translates to “Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, the Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.” There is no explicit “even if such criticisms are based on the truth” in the text. It is true that some may interpret it in this way. But indenting this free interpretation in the way you usually style direct quotes may mislead readers into thinking this were a quote from the actual law.
The extremely brave Chatwadee Rose asks :
“Why does Thailand has to go down this path every few years with the same old characters again and again while the country and the majority of the population suffer?”.
MY simple answer : BECAUSE “Thailand” is NOT in fact a country. “Thailand” is a military construction. Until this again becomes a free SIAM, as Chulalongkorn clearly intended, it will be forever under the military jackboot.
It is self evident that Chulalongkorn never intented to let Siam become free Siam same as the founder of this dynasty who hijacked the throne from king Taksin the great. This bunch, the Chackree, is worst than the Somalia pirates. At least they don’t pretend to be anything else but pirates.
I must commend k-Rose for her bravery in publically addressing a topic most Thais are afraid to discuss, even in private. 112 is a travesty as it is used as a tool of oppression where truth is not a defence.
The Royalist network has endorsed this coup, as it has the previous dozen plus successful coups, but for whose benefit.
We are already 6 months into Military rule but lets imagine that we are asking the following questions after 12 months of military junta rule.
Has the Human rights situation improved.
Has democracy been restored.
Is there a new constitution and does it enhance democracy in Thailand.
Are 112 prosecutions decreasing.
Has Martial law been lifted.
Is the economy growing at even close to the average rate for the region.
Are the media free to report the truth.
Are people allowed to freely express peaceful political views.
Has reform improved the education system.
Has top level corruption been eradicated or even reduced.
Has basic health care improved for the poorer segments of society.
Has reconciliation been successful.
Are the majority of the population blissfully happy.
I would suspect that NO will be the answer to all of the above
I would also suspect that YES will be the answer to the following
Are the top army generals even more unusually rich (its amazing how many have become multi $USD millionaires from a relatively small $3k a month salary).
Has the Crown Property bureau continued to grow both capital and profits.
Will people of means continue to evade justice while the poor get swift retribution.
Have the royalists become even more fanatical (not wearing yellow should be a criminal offence).
Can every school child recite Generalissimo’s 12 commandments while squatting round the flag pole.
Will more Thai nationals be seeking political asylum in the West or even in the East
Have budgets for large government infrastructure projects begun to deplete but with little to show for it.
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Koh Tao trial another litmus test
Khunying Pornthip may be a capable forensic scientist, but she is hardly world respected and is clearly partisan. I would have gone with “Army favorite and GT200 apologist” as a description.
DNA does lie, but it is very easy to lie with DNA – just switch samples.
But I suspect you already know all of that.
Koh Tao trial another litmus test
You’re correct Hang Tuah. Assuming the reported DNA evidence is unimpeachable and leads to a conviction then a finding of guilt would be appropriate.
No one on the outside can assume knowledge of whether these men are guilty or not.
We CAN however in this instance and at this stage evaluate the investigation (as opposed to the trial) and speculate on what the verdict would mean for the issues at play.
Koh Tao trial another litmus test
Thai justice system has not been known for justice.Lets see here what other stakeholders can do, especially the British government.
Koh Tao trial another litmus test
DNA evidence, when forensically validated in court, cannot be refuted by political preferences. Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, MD is a world-respected Forensic Pathologist who does not play favourites. I am quite sure she will be asked to adjudicate the forensic evidence.
You may not like what the DNA evidence reveals, with respect to your political preferences or agenda (if any), but DNA does not lie, if it is a 12-point match and the chain of custody is maintained. Unless the defence can show otherwise with respect to refuting the DNA evidence, “murder will out”. DNA only discriminates between guilt and innocence, and not ideological attributes or leanings.
Myanmar Special Economic Zones, Part I
I don’t see millions of people immigrating to your nation and I wonder why ? Save your silly faux-nationalism for your therapist.
Myanmar Special Economic Zones, Part I
There is not that cliche at all.
United States of America led the “West” is the worst perpetrators of human rights of all the humanity and destroyers of the nature by far. Their treachery and deviousness of them is beyond description. (Yet they play the game so well people still suck up to them, talking about Stockholm Syndrome.
Still hope the Chinese hard labour slave industry camps all over the globes and digging up all the minerals poisoning the land is not really regarded as a fantastic model. Not much finesse like the “West” but impact is hardly different.
Lucky Burma, There is now chance to be screwed by both camps. The orgasm may never stop.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
I like Rose’s comment that the present constitutional situation is worse than the absolute monarchy. Now, when there is trouble the elected government is always the scapegoat and the monarchy always comes to the rescue. That lie enables the monarchy to be the fomenter of trouble. The monarch would seldom do that in the days of absolute monarchy, when he knew he would ultimately be held responsible.
Thais in exile
It’s called Karmma.
You get what you deserve. I don’t feel sorry for them not one bit.
Jaurpong? Where was his democracy and freemdom when he and his ilk under the urging of Jae Dang stole Billions under the disasterous rice scheme. A scheme used to buy votes and is now putting Thailand’s new generation under massive debt to pay for these handouts that has never reached the farmers hands. With degraded, missing and low-quality rice in the storehouses.
So easy to overlook corruption on such a massive scale just because you feel sorry for those who perpetrated the crime.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
Can you honestly say and confirm that Rose was the writer who is so extremely brave?
Or do you accept it because she has with the support of foreigners and those who seek to undermine a reform to Thailand’s democracy that was debased by thaksin and his gang of majoritarianism.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
Firstly, prove to me that Rose was the author of this fiction.
The writing is based on half truths and disseminations. Prevarications that can only come from an English fluent ghost writer.
So this is what New Mandala has come to. Accepting fiction from a supposed author without finding out who is the real writer of the piece. Without knowing who wrote it, it would just become another piece of sh-t; so becoming to NM nowadays.
Shame on you!
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
King Rama V. (Chulalongkorn) to the Siamese Commissioner-General in Chiang Mai, 1883 (quoted in Saraswadee, History of Lan Na, 2005, p. 182)
Is this the “free Siam, as Chulalongkorn clearly intended”?
A Spanish lesson for Indonesia’s 1965
Se├▒or de Rivera,
Professor Edward Said died about 12 years ago. Professor Chomsky is irrelevant, so you can drop your projections in the Suez Canal and move on with your life. You are not Carl Jung, so don’t play mind reader; as you are as wrong as the day is young.
Myanmar Special Economic Zones, Part I
In the current case (Myanmar), I don’t disagree.
But if we look a little more broadly at history, it is hard to pain Western countries as good and China as bad.
Remembering the work of Professor Andrew Huxley
Thanks for writing this – as a lawyer by training I have been curious as to what level of information is known about precolonial Southeast Asian legal systems. I’ll certainly be seeking out some of Dr. Huxley’s work.
A Spanish lesson for Indonesia’s 1965
In other words, the inimitable Mr Cohen is lecturing us, Spain is west of Suez. It has history, ideas, ideology, strong leaders. It can mount a serious effort toward truth and reconciliation. Indonesia, lying east of Suez, Mr Cohen is telling us, can aspire to none of these things . . .
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
Sorry for nitpicking, but the lese majesty law is section 112 of the Criminal Code, not of the Constitution. And it does not state “No one can criticize the king and any member of his family, even if such criticisms are based on the truth.” That’s an interpretation, not the actual statute. The actual text is “р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Гр╕Фр╕лр╕бр╕┤р╣Ир╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕Ч р╕Фр╕╣р╕лр╕бр╕┤р╣Ир╕Щ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Бр╕кр╕Фр╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕▓р╕Жр╕▓р╕Хр╕бр╕▓р╕Фр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕┤р╕Щр╕╡ р╕гр╕▒р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕вр╕▓р╕Ч р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕│р╣Ар╕гр╣Зр╕И р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕Чр╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣М р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕░р╕зр╕▓р╕Зр╣Вр╕Чр╕йр╕Ир╕│р╕Др╕╕р╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕Ыр╕╡р╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╕кр╕┤р╕Ър╕лр╣Йр╕▓р╕Ыр╕╡” which translates to “Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, the Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years.” There is no explicit “even if such criticisms are based on the truth” in the text. It is true that some may interpret it in this way. But indenting this free interpretation in the way you usually style direct quotes may mislead readers into thinking this were a quote from the actual law.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
The extremely brave Chatwadee Rose asks :
“Why does Thailand has to go down this path every few years with the same old characters again and again while the country and the majority of the population suffer?”.
MY simple answer : BECAUSE “Thailand” is NOT in fact a country. “Thailand” is a military construction. Until this again becomes a free SIAM, as Chulalongkorn clearly intended, it will be forever under the military jackboot.
It is self evident that Chulalongkorn never intented to let Siam become free Siam same as the founder of this dynasty who hijacked the throne from king Taksin the great. This bunch, the Chackree, is worst than the Somalia pirates. At least they don’t pretend to be anything else but pirates.
Myanmar Special Economic Zones, Part I
@krajongpa
The difference is how ruthless in doing so.
Based on general characteristics of the people involved and the ability and effectiveness of the representing executives.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
I must commend k-Rose for her bravery in publically addressing a topic most Thais are afraid to discuss, even in private. 112 is a travesty as it is used as a tool of oppression where truth is not a defence.
The Royalist network has endorsed this coup, as it has the previous dozen plus successful coups, but for whose benefit.
We are already 6 months into Military rule but lets imagine that we are asking the following questions after 12 months of military junta rule.
Has the Human rights situation improved.
Has democracy been restored.
Is there a new constitution and does it enhance democracy in Thailand.
Are 112 prosecutions decreasing.
Has Martial law been lifted.
Is the economy growing at even close to the average rate for the region.
Are the media free to report the truth.
Are people allowed to freely express peaceful political views.
Has reform improved the education system.
Has top level corruption been eradicated or even reduced.
Has basic health care improved for the poorer segments of society.
Has reconciliation been successful.
Are the majority of the population blissfully happy.
I would suspect that NO will be the answer to all of the above
I would also suspect that YES will be the answer to the following
Are the top army generals even more unusually rich (its amazing how many have become multi $USD millionaires from a relatively small $3k a month salary).
Has the Crown Property bureau continued to grow both capital and profits.
Will people of means continue to evade justice while the poor get swift retribution.
Have the royalists become even more fanatical (not wearing yellow should be a criminal offence).
Can every school child recite Generalissimo’s 12 commandments while squatting round the flag pole.
Will more Thai nationals be seeking political asylum in the West or even in the East
Have budgets for large government infrastructure projects begun to deplete but with little to show for it.
Thai Coup: A normal way of life
Good on you khun Rose.I admire your courage and effort to speak out.
Chokedee&Boonruksa.