JL is was referring to Thida Thavornseth and her husband Weng Tojirakarn, both leaders of the UDD and both former members of the CPT. Who are the people that were members of CPT and are now with the yellow shirts?
Initially, about 70% of the former CPT was with Yellow, and only 30% with Red. This has now somewhat shifted over time. More former communists are now with Red. But it is more complex. Most of the southern CPT are with Yellow, as many former Communists are allied with Democrat Party networks. Lower Isarn former CPT are still with Yellow. Upper Isarn and Northern former CPT are mostly with Red now.
It is also a class thing – a larger part of high ranked – provincial level leadership and up – former CPT are allied with Yellow (Weng and Tida are an exception), while the majority of the lower ranked – Tambon level and down – are with Red (except in the South). This situation has led to conflicts within former CPT networks.
On the political party level you have former CPT almost evenly spread over all the political parties.
I am aware that many people believe that only former CPT are with the Red Shirts, as they concentrate on the propaganda against Weng and Tida, and Pheu Thai people such as Chaturon Chaisaeng and Adisorn Pienkaet, yet ignore that on the yellow side you have sub-leaders such as Amorn, Thai Patriot Network leader Somboon Thongburan, many labor union people allied with Somsak Kosaisuk, guard leaders and provincial Democrat Party organizers from many southern provinces who were former CPT cadres, etc…
Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha said Friday that he would offer rewards to the police team for their well-done job in their successful resolving of the murder of two British tourists on Koh Tao in mid-September.
yes that’s right reds, but its going to be a long road before Thaksin comes back isn’t it? and Yingluck selling assets now .
You know what? I don’t think he will be back ever. The numbers of protesters that were on the streets are irrelevant. You have a new Government and the constitution or charter will make sure he never does. Tough. Spit venom here.
Soon, unless you are while you are arguing about how many idiot reds were on the streets in 2014, you will be swallowed up by China.
‘Us’ or ‘We’ Kaen phet, are some of the tens of thousands of Westerners who live here and have opinion on the wellbeing of this country. Is that coherent pet redshirt? And I am not going to learn Thai; the language will be dead in twenty years, instead teach the boy English. Spit venom here.
This author will forever High light the importance of not mixing the 2 words that are essential to progress of everything in Asia.
The 2 words are Democracy and Freedom.
The former describe a high and mighty, yet always unclear, ill defined at best, arbitrary principles at the worst, the latter understandable, easily comprehend and desired by even the most simple minded person.
All Asian countries has a long way to go to obtain “Freedom from poverty and fear”.
Yet the Democratic yard stick, at it most arbitrary used is evident here. The west need to be redefined clearly which yard stick used and when, lest like this article becoming irrelevance.
This may sound harsh, yet if one can not interchange the 2 words in above article w/o making the whole article another useless careless attempt to characterize the present Asian government in bad light at the best, at the worst an ignorance/denial to the humanity suffering under crushing poverty an fear since the Democratic West definition of everything Asian countries as democratic.
If a factual error catapults people out of this discussion then farewell to Mr. Nostitz as well. The former communists are with the red shirts and not the yellow shirts.
@ lolitas brother – ‘when you write out tickets that means you cannot pocket the cash’. Well, perhaps not directly. Thailand, as you know, is a hierarchical society. The way it works with the police is the money generally goes up the foodchain a bit to more senior officers and the spoils from such activities are divvied up amongst a given coterie of these scumbags in uniform. If you’re ever a victim of crime in this country about the last person you want involved is a member of the force. There are no doubt exceptions to this, but overall the Thai police are not to be trusted with anything.
s uyyuo
It never occurred to you that I might have contacts in Malaysia that give me reason to have a basis for my statement, did it ?
YOUR assumptions, notwithstanding. Your assessment is not consistent with what
I KNOW and your assumption that I am unfamiliar with the local extremists
environment is very premature. No, the
police were not to quick to point a finger
in this instance, unless you happen to
be a Malaysian Police Officer, which I
think you are not.
The police were too quick to point the finger at “Tong” war. There are several things wrong with that assumption, your (Peter) “expertise” not withstanding;
1. Extremist attacking an entertainment outlet need not be ISIS. Islamic fanatics had bombed churches, and other places in the last few years – ever since groups like Perkasa / ISMA / Perdika etc got the “green light” from the Govt
2. Underworld operators of “entertainment” premises and other business keep “business rivalry wars” away from their business premises. Just look at the history of turf wars. Most of these are Malaysian Chinese, whose primary concern is business (black or white) in Chinese sense. Causing panic and fear to customers is a big NO NO.
3. Gang wars, as in trying to kill some rivals are usually done with hired guns – gunmen waiting for person near their homes / at the coffee shops / mamak stores etc. A few bullets to the person takes care of business.
4. Most of these “entertainment” places are under the “quiet” protection of the police. They have illegal girls from all around Asean and China. Some girls from the Eastern Block Europe and also Russia. Without “police protection”, there is no way they can stay open.
5. If there are issues, the “taikos” or business owners trash it out with each other in the presence of a police arbitrator, on the quiet.
Bombing / arson etc are not condone and had never happen, ever, because of the operating scenario, I have painted.
For the sake of introducing the novel concept of a coherent argument, would you explain please why you believe that Red Shirt positions and political demands should not be allowed to be voiced, and instead only their opponents can have their say?
@lolitas brother – if NM is such ‘a waste of time for the rest of us’ why even bother logging on unless you are some mindless troll with nothing better to do? Incidentally, who is ‘us’?
Perhaps you should devote some time – quite a few years I would suggest, to learn Thai properly – the three macro skills: speaking, reading, writing (elsewhere you confessed you could not even speak the language). Then you might develop a little better understanding of the place and offer us more informed or insightful commentary. Otherwise you, and other people like that Rees fellow, will continue to be slagged mercilessly for your, generally, worthless ‘contributions’.
I sincerely hope that the Thai government will be able to allow poor people to stay in forests if that is their habitat.It is a matter that there should be no destruction. You can not carve down treed for wood burning.
Of course rubber plantations and exclusive properties for the corrupt wealthy could be out of the question.
I saw in a News paper article that Thailand has 31% or so in forest and the Government wishes more.
New Mandela is a red shirt site, is that not correct.? Pure and simple preaching to the converted, and a waste of time for the rest of us. Your Mandela articles are an absurd , red shirt representation, of no value to a fact finder. The police article is a disgrace and most of your commenters rabid zealots . Now there you are red shirts open fire with your malevolence.
Lolitas rational debate about substantive issues is what freedom and democracy is about. Those of us who treasure freedom of speech and democratic values are hardly arrogant or bitter.I have no doubt you honestly believe in the views you espouse. However to represent conjecture and quaint anecdotal evidence as substantive fact is quite simply poor reasoning. The reality is that you don’t know what the majority of Thais think about the present situation.You simply cannot extrapolate your experiences in an Isaan village to Thailand as a whole.
If you would like your views to be taken seriously think before you post. You quite clearly wrote that long term”westerners”contribute 5% to the Thai economy. Later when you were challenged you changed it to tourists.we all know tourism is about 8-10% of GDP.
Making ridiculous statements to support your argument doesn’t assist your cause.
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Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
JL is was referring to Thida Thavornseth and her husband Weng Tojirakarn, both leaders of the UDD and both former members of the CPT. Who are the people that were members of CPT and are now with the yellow shirts?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Well, Ludo, unfortunately for you i can actually back up my statements: http://www.newmandala.org/2013/06/10/white-masks-red-masks-and-royalist-communists/
Initially, about 70% of the former CPT was with Yellow, and only 30% with Red. This has now somewhat shifted over time. More former communists are now with Red. But it is more complex. Most of the southern CPT are with Yellow, as many former Communists are allied with Democrat Party networks. Lower Isarn former CPT are still with Yellow. Upper Isarn and Northern former CPT are mostly with Red now.
It is also a class thing – a larger part of high ranked – provincial level leadership and up – former CPT are allied with Yellow (Weng and Tida are an exception), while the majority of the lower ranked – Tambon level and down – are with Red (except in the South). This situation has led to conflicts within former CPT networks.
On the political party level you have former CPT almost evenly spread over all the political parties.
I am aware that many people believe that only former CPT are with the Red Shirts, as they concentrate on the propaganda against Weng and Tida, and Pheu Thai people such as Chaturon Chaisaeng and Adisorn Pienkaet, yet ignore that on the yellow side you have sub-leaders such as Amorn, Thai Patriot Network leader Somboon Thongburan, many labor union people allied with Somsak Kosaisuk, guard leaders and provincial Democrat Party organizers from many southern provinces who were former CPT cadres, etc…
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
There are former communists in both camps.
Murky democratic dawn in Southeast Asia
A good essay on the democratic transition in Chile and Argentina here.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
Site contamination, planted evidence, forced confessions, etc. This is all excellent Thai police work according to the top brass.
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pm-will-reward-police-team-resolving-koh-tao-murder-case/
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
yes that’s right reds, but its going to be a long road before Thaksin comes back isn’t it? and Yingluck selling assets now .
You know what? I don’t think he will be back ever. The numbers of protesters that were on the streets are irrelevant. You have a new Government and the constitution or charter will make sure he never does. Tough. Spit venom here.
Soon, unless you are while you are arguing about how many idiot reds were on the streets in 2014, you will be swallowed up by China.
‘Us’ or ‘We’ Kaen phet, are some of the tens of thousands of Westerners who live here and have opinion on the wellbeing of this country. Is that coherent pet redshirt? And I am not going to learn Thai; the language will be dead in twenty years, instead teach the boy English. Spit venom here.
Murky democratic dawn in Southeast Asia
This author will forever High light the importance of not mixing the 2 words that are essential to progress of everything in Asia.
The 2 words are Democracy and Freedom.
The former describe a high and mighty, yet always unclear, ill defined at best, arbitrary principles at the worst, the latter understandable, easily comprehend and desired by even the most simple minded person.
All Asian countries has a long way to go to obtain “Freedom from poverty and fear”.
Yet the Democratic yard stick, at it most arbitrary used is evident here. The west need to be redefined clearly which yard stick used and when, lest like this article becoming irrelevance.
This may sound harsh, yet if one can not interchange the 2 words in above article w/o making the whole article another useless careless attempt to characterize the present Asian government in bad light at the best, at the worst an ignorance/denial to the humanity suffering under crushing poverty an fear since the Democratic West definition of everything Asian countries as democratic.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
If a factual error catapults people out of this discussion then farewell to Mr. Nostitz as well. The former communists are with the red shirts and not the yellow shirts.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
It could be argued that, in effect, Thailand has long been colonized by ethnic Chinese.
Islam: A religion of peace
If members of the Malaysian government are reading New Mandala (if my sources can be trusted), could you help us resolve this matter.
We accept anonymous, cryptic comments, and in any language.
Malaysia Boleh, dan yakin boleh.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
It is interesting to watch how the Thai police are handling the brutal murder of two young British tourists on the island of Koh Tao recently.They have arrested two Burmese migrant workers but people in Burma and elsewhere seem to be a bit uneasy of how the Thai police handled the case.
http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/respected-thai-forensics-specialist-criticizes-koh-tao-murder-investigation.html
http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thailand-murder-in-the-land-of-smiles/
I think it was even on the agenda with Burmese President Thein Sein during Prayuth’s current visit in Burma (his first foreign trip after the coup).
http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/thai-prime-minister-meet-president-thein-sein-naypyidaw.html
Besides, this case can have a negative impact on the That tourist industry and money does matter to the Thai ruling upper-class!
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
@ lolitas brother – ‘when you write out tickets that means you cannot pocket the cash’. Well, perhaps not directly. Thailand, as you know, is a hierarchical society. The way it works with the police is the money generally goes up the foodchain a bit to more senior officers and the spoils from such activities are divvied up amongst a given coterie of these scumbags in uniform. If you’re ever a victim of crime in this country about the last person you want involved is a member of the force. There are no doubt exceptions to this, but overall the Thai police are not to be trusted with anything.
s uyyuo
Islam: A religion of peace
Neptunian,
It never occurred to you that I might have contacts in Malaysia that give me reason to have a basis for my statement, did it ?
YOUR assumptions, notwithstanding. Your assessment is not consistent with what
I KNOW and your assumption that I am unfamiliar with the local extremists
environment is very premature. No, the
police were not to quick to point a finger
in this instance, unless you happen to
be a Malaysian Police Officer, which I
think you are not.
Islam: A religion of peace
The police were too quick to point the finger at “Tong” war. There are several things wrong with that assumption, your (Peter) “expertise” not withstanding;
1. Extremist attacking an entertainment outlet need not be ISIS. Islamic fanatics had bombed churches, and other places in the last few years – ever since groups like Perkasa / ISMA / Perdika etc got the “green light” from the Govt
2. Underworld operators of “entertainment” premises and other business keep “business rivalry wars” away from their business premises. Just look at the history of turf wars. Most of these are Malaysian Chinese, whose primary concern is business (black or white) in Chinese sense. Causing panic and fear to customers is a big NO NO.
3. Gang wars, as in trying to kill some rivals are usually done with hired guns – gunmen waiting for person near their homes / at the coffee shops / mamak stores etc. A few bullets to the person takes care of business.
4. Most of these “entertainment” places are under the “quiet” protection of the police. They have illegal girls from all around Asean and China. Some girls from the Eastern Block Europe and also Russia. Without “police protection”, there is no way they can stay open.
5. If there are issues, the “taikos” or business owners trash it out with each other in the presence of a police arbitrator, on the quiet.
Bombing / arson etc are not condone and had never happen, ever, because of the operating scenario, I have painted.
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
For the sake of introducing the novel concept of a coherent argument, would you explain please why you believe that Red Shirt positions and political demands should not be allowed to be voiced, and instead only their opponents can have their say?
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
@lolitas brother – if NM is such ‘a waste of time for the rest of us’ why even bother logging on unless you are some mindless troll with nothing better to do? Incidentally, who is ‘us’?
Perhaps you should devote some time – quite a few years I would suggest, to learn Thai properly – the three macro skills: speaking, reading, writing (elsewhere you confessed you could not even speak the language). Then you might develop a little better understanding of the place and offer us more informed or insightful commentary. Otherwise you, and other people like that Rees fellow, will continue to be slagged mercilessly for your, generally, worthless ‘contributions’.
Forest evictions under Prayuth?
I sincerely hope that the Thai government will be able to allow poor people to stay in forests if that is their habitat.It is a matter that there should be no destruction. You can not carve down treed for wood burning.
Of course rubber plantations and exclusive properties for the corrupt wealthy could be out of the question.
I saw in a News paper article that Thailand has 31% or so in forest and the Government wishes more.
A numbers game: Social media and political legitimacy
New Mandela is a red shirt site, is that not correct.? Pure and simple preaching to the converted, and a waste of time for the rest of us. Your Mandela articles are an absurd , red shirt representation, of no value to a fact finder. The police article is a disgrace and most of your commenters rabid zealots . Now there you are red shirts open fire with your malevolence.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Lolitas rational debate about substantive issues is what freedom and democracy is about. Those of us who treasure freedom of speech and democratic values are hardly arrogant or bitter.I have no doubt you honestly believe in the views you espouse. However to represent conjecture and quaint anecdotal evidence as substantive fact is quite simply poor reasoning. The reality is that you don’t know what the majority of Thais think about the present situation.You simply cannot extrapolate your experiences in an Isaan village to Thailand as a whole.
If you would like your views to be taken seriously think before you post. You quite clearly wrote that long term”westerners”contribute 5% to the Thai economy. Later when you were challenged you changed it to tourists.we all know tourism is about 8-10% of GDP.
Making ridiculous statements to support your argument doesn’t assist your cause.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
Link?