Anyone who openly advocates it being a religion of peace reflects ignorance of the plight of non-Muslims within Muslim communities. They are often treated inhumanely, even killed. And in the US where Muslim communities now have the backing of Homeland Security, people who don’t know the reality that Islam and Sharia bring remain ignorant and apologetic.
I suppose that Mr. Reese hasn’t been reading Thai’s comments on the internet on various websites either. If he did, he would know that the current government has closed down more than 250 websites that it deems violating the monarchy’s authority. However, as the government closed down on such websites, more are being opened and now all the government can do is to block such sites. The law, LM 112, has caused many people great suffering, and many Thais are fighting back. Information of the present and of the past about the monarchy, the ones that the monarchy and the government don’t want anyone to know, are all over the internet. I am tired of sycophantic westerners, like you, who think that we should continue to kowtow and claw like insects for this law. Some, if not most of us, have already awaken. I am neutral to the King and wish him well. Whatever actions or inactions that he and his family have created, they will beget consequences as such. But please, don’t expect us to think and behave like you and don’t threaten us with LM 112.
Early on in his reflections, Prof. Daniels rightfully points out that: “Most scholars of Islam, and of religion in general, would make a distinction between core religious texts and the multiple and diverse ways believers interpret and practice religion. They would also generally contend that religions are not actors and that it is the believers and practitioners who are peaceful or violent.” Somewhat later he also observes, in my opinion correctly, that “human history is full of believers of various religions drawing upon religious sources in their commission of acts of violence against others.”
As he himself notes, isn’t the logical consequence of these claims that it makes little sense to call any world historical religion – whether Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. – a religion of peace OR a religion of violence? All world historical religions in their capaciousness and diversity provide resources – scriptural and otherwise – to justify both peace and violence. Therefore, rather than argue about the essential nature of this or that religious “ism”, shouldn’t we focus on the particular acts of particular groups and actors in particular times and places acting in that religion’s name?
That is the lesson I take away midway through Prof. Daniel’s argument. And yet, he then proceeds to make an impassioned argument that, yes, in fact, Islam is a religion of peace. And so I am left in the end confused.
I have no problem with the idea that Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc are religions of peace and religions of war – if one has to resort to talking about “isms” rather than Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Does Prof. Daniels, however, believe that Islam is both a religion of peace and a religion of war? Apparently not, although I confess I am not certain about what his final position is.
“They are however a minority of the expat population.” Matt, I suspect that is quite true, at least in as much any of them think about it all, which in my experience most of them don’t. Preserving the privileges of the amart and the powers that be, also preserves the low-wage economy, seemingly threatened by Thaksin and PTP. That in turn means that those of us living on western sources of income can make it go a lot further here than in, say. Europe or America or Australasia. But at whose cost?
A couple of points. I would say the Scottiish independence vote was rigged,& had you been following grassroots news outlets,I think that would have become quite obvious.The 45% vote for independence was unexpected & the elite sent in their ground troops, (Cameron,Clegg,Milliband)followed by their OWN mainstream media,who’s bias so blatant,that its caused a 425% rise in Scottish Green Party membership alone.Money politics won.BBC Oxbridge playing their part in it,won it.This had nothing to with democracy as we all beleived it once was.This was a Oligarch triumph.You’ll be aware that the USA is an Oligarchy structed country,according to scientific study.It never use to be that way,you know.I hope you know that.So upholding as an example of a “working democracy” whatever fake “checks + balances” there might be, is not to recognise the reality.
“But if all you can offer is vitriol and ignorance, nobody will listen to you.”
Well, you do that all the time and the sheep listen to you. They are however a minority of the expat population. Take a look at Michael Yon’s factual comments on you and the posts on his site that put you in better perspective.
If Islam is so tolerant, why is noted scholar and intellectual, Kassim Ahmad being persecuted (nearly to death) in Malaysia, simply because he rejects the Hadiths and Aurat ? If Islam is tolerant, than there should be room for diversity. As apparently there isn’t (name one single Muslim nation, where minority Islamic sects aren’t persecuted), then the argument falls flat and very short.
George, when I say that Thailand has been a semi-colony of Britain, then Japan, then the United States, this is not even a controversial statement anywhere except Thailand where the truth is criminalized. If you do even cursory research of the academic literature, you will see that it is a widely accepted argument. You can also read the brilliant 1970s article by Benedict Anderson that compelling argues that the Bangkok elite have acted as a colonial power in Thailand for centuries. If you disagree with this assessment, then please provide a compelling counter-argument. It would be very useful to read informed arguments that challenge the academic consensus. But if all you can offer is vitriol and ignorance, nobody will listen to you.
Yes, to a certain extent, since I believe modern civilisation which should be based on scientific rational ideas and not on some primitive human behavioural tribal patterns. As I said, the Nazi’s pushed this racial ideology to the extreme and we all know what came out of that.
To continue this train of thought, I also don’t believe in affirmative action (which is partly why the US government wants to know your ethnicity) and “politically correct” extreme multiculturalism (we know how militant Muslim recruiters for ISIS are exploiting that in the UK). You might think this is a right wing view, but actually it can be a position from the extreme left (post-Marxist).
Race, religion, ethnicity (and even sexual preferences to a certain degree) are for me private matters and a modern State should stay out of these things as best it can. Separation of State and Church was a classic struggle in the history of Western civilisation. It seems now that a lot of “States” in Asia and elsewhere (not to mention Caliphates and ISIS) are reversing history by defining a Nation State in terms of Race, Ethnicity or Religion. This is for me obsolete and oxymoronic.
“Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible “Are They the Same?”
First of all Christianity fares no better at times worst than Islam as practiced by radical.
Historically ALLAH, YAWEI and JEHOVAH IS the same. It is the Preacher, Teacher, Interpreter (PTI) that has interpreted to such present unyielding, and unforgiving ALLAH,love and grace is equated to obedience that make horrendous acts justifiable, chanting Allah Akbar.
As for Christianity, similarly radicals have distorted the true teaching and intent of God to enact so many, again unmentionable acts. Even after ROL is Civil right base as oppose to Islamic country where ROL is Islam.
You might have just started unfortunately a flame war. Good luck defending.
Well that’s just it, as a Muslim I would say if Muslims followed the “true” doctrine of Islam, taking in Quran verses, authentic hadith and scholars’ consensus of various matters in ENTIRETY, there would be no ability to justify heinous acts according to Islam.
These arguments comparing followers of Islam with other organized acts of religious violence becomes tedious. The crux of the matter revolves around whether those that profess to follow a certain religion actually practice its’ teachings.
In the case of Islam, those that commit what are considered atrocities are able to validate their actions by quoting specific passages of the Qur’an and the Hadith.
To the contrary, TRUE Christianity is encapsulated in the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Sermon On The Mount (Matthew Chapters 5,6,and 7).
Modern pundits will always make reference to violent acts committed by people that profess to be Christians, yet their acts cannot be condoned, or supported by the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.
I would recommend a recently published book at amazon.com or other online books stores that clearly defines the differences between Christianity and Islam.
“Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible “Are They the Same?”
Just as nationality is not the same as race. They listed 135 national races although of course mixed race ethnicity is commonplace in Burma. Still who’s going to stop people claiming whatever they want to be (the Rohingya being the exception to the rule)?
190. And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not commit aggression; God does not love the aggressors.
191. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from where they had expelled you. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers.
192. But if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful.
193. And fight them until there is no oppression, and worship becomes devoted to God alone. But if they cease, then let there be no hostility except against the oppressors.
194. The sacred month for the sacred month; and sacrilege calls for retaliation. Whoever commits aggression against you, retaliate against him in the same measure as he has committed against you. And be conscious of God, and know that God is with the righteous.
195. And spend in the cause of God, and do not throw yourselves with your own hands into ruin, and be charitable. God loves the charitable.
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Islam, a religion of peace
Anyone who openly advocates it being a religion of peace reflects ignorance of the plight of non-Muslims within Muslim communities. They are often treated inhumanely, even killed. And in the US where Muslim communities now have the backing of Homeland Security, people who don’t know the reality that Islam and Sharia bring remain ignorant and apologetic.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Ohn
The British Colonist have been the one who created the present quagmire:
1) Creating a Burma as a province of India.
2) Allowing the unmitigated migration of Indian, Hindus and Muslim for cheap labor.
3) Starting this Rohingyas as an ethnic entity to create another front to vilify SPDC.
Now meddling through NGO, UN and HR organizations when ever it suit their dirty moral needs.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
I suppose that Mr. Reese hasn’t been reading Thai’s comments on the internet on various websites either. If he did, he would know that the current government has closed down more than 250 websites that it deems violating the monarchy’s authority. However, as the government closed down on such websites, more are being opened and now all the government can do is to block such sites. The law, LM 112, has caused many people great suffering, and many Thais are fighting back. Information of the present and of the past about the monarchy, the ones that the monarchy and the government don’t want anyone to know, are all over the internet. I am tired of sycophantic westerners, like you, who think that we should continue to kowtow and claw like insects for this law. Some, if not most of us, have already awaken. I am neutral to the King and wish him well. Whatever actions or inactions that he and his family have created, they will beget consequences as such. But please, don’t expect us to think and behave like you and don’t threaten us with LM 112.
Islam, a religion of peace
Early on in his reflections, Prof. Daniels rightfully points out that: “Most scholars of Islam, and of religion in general, would make a distinction between core religious texts and the multiple and diverse ways believers interpret and practice religion. They would also generally contend that religions are not actors and that it is the believers and practitioners who are peaceful or violent.” Somewhat later he also observes, in my opinion correctly, that “human history is full of believers of various religions drawing upon religious sources in their commission of acts of violence against others.”
As he himself notes, isn’t the logical consequence of these claims that it makes little sense to call any world historical religion – whether Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. – a religion of peace OR a religion of violence? All world historical religions in their capaciousness and diversity provide resources – scriptural and otherwise – to justify both peace and violence. Therefore, rather than argue about the essential nature of this or that religious “ism”, shouldn’t we focus on the particular acts of particular groups and actors in particular times and places acting in that religion’s name?
That is the lesson I take away midway through Prof. Daniel’s argument. And yet, he then proceeds to make an impassioned argument that, yes, in fact, Islam is a religion of peace. And so I am left in the end confused.
I have no problem with the idea that Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc are religions of peace and religions of war – if one has to resort to talking about “isms” rather than Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc. Does Prof. Daniels, however, believe that Islam is both a religion of peace and a religion of war? Apparently not, although I confess I am not certain about what his final position is.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
“Valid points” Thankyou, for that.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
“They are however a minority of the expat population.” Matt, I suspect that is quite true, at least in as much any of them think about it all, which in my experience most of them don’t. Preserving the privileges of the amart and the powers that be, also preserves the low-wage economy, seemingly threatened by Thaksin and PTP. That in turn means that those of us living on western sources of income can make it go a lot further here than in, say. Europe or America or Australasia. But at whose cost?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
A couple of points. I would say the Scottiish independence vote was rigged,& had you been following grassroots news outlets,I think that would have become quite obvious.The 45% vote for independence was unexpected & the elite sent in their ground troops, (Cameron,Clegg,Milliband)followed by their OWN mainstream media,who’s bias so blatant,that its caused a 425% rise in Scottish Green Party membership alone.Money politics won.BBC Oxbridge playing their part in it,won it.This had nothing to with democracy as we all beleived it once was.This was a Oligarch triumph.You’ll be aware that the USA is an Oligarchy structed country,according to scientific study.It never use to be that way,you know.I hope you know that.So upholding as an example of a “working democracy” whatever fake “checks + balances” there might be, is not to recognise the reality.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
You mention:
“But if all you can offer is vitriol and ignorance, nobody will listen to you.”
Well, you do that all the time and the sheep listen to you. They are however a minority of the expat population. Take a look at Michael Yon’s factual comments on you and the posts on his site that put you in better perspective.
Islam, a religion of peace
If Islam is so tolerant, why is noted scholar and intellectual, Kassim Ahmad being persecuted (nearly to death) in Malaysia, simply because he rejects the Hadiths and Aurat ? If Islam is tolerant, than there should be room for diversity. As apparently there isn’t (name one single Muslim nation, where minority Islamic sects aren’t persecuted), then the argument falls flat and very short.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
This is how NM now works.
Provoke a “debate” by publishing ludicrous, fact-free article that introduces no new ideas to the discussion on Thai politics.
Invoke chest-thumping put-downs of the article that introduce no new ideas to the discussion on Thai politics.
Stand back, throw on some fuel, and watch the flames rise higher.
Anyone looking in on this discussion is going to think they’ve entered a mad house.
Unless, of course, this is all part of some obscure NM anthropological study.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
George, when I say that Thailand has been a semi-colony of Britain, then Japan, then the United States, this is not even a controversial statement anywhere except Thailand where the truth is criminalized. If you do even cursory research of the academic literature, you will see that it is a widely accepted argument. You can also read the brilliant 1970s article by Benedict Anderson that compelling argues that the Bangkok elite have acted as a colonial power in Thailand for centuries. If you disagree with this assessment, then please provide a compelling counter-argument. It would be very useful to read informed arguments that challenge the academic consensus. But if all you can offer is vitriol and ignorance, nobody will listen to you.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Yes, to a certain extent, since I believe modern civilisation which should be based on scientific rational ideas and not on some primitive human behavioural tribal patterns. As I said, the Nazi’s pushed this racial ideology to the extreme and we all know what came out of that.
To continue this train of thought, I also don’t believe in affirmative action (which is partly why the US government wants to know your ethnicity) and “politically correct” extreme multiculturalism (we know how militant Muslim recruiters for ISIS are exploiting that in the UK). You might think this is a right wing view, but actually it can be a position from the extreme left (post-Marxist).
Race, religion, ethnicity (and even sexual preferences to a certain degree) are for me private matters and a modern State should stay out of these things as best it can. Separation of State and Church was a classic struggle in the history of Western civilisation. It seems now that a lot of “States” in Asia and elsewhere (not to mention Caliphates and ISIS) are reversing history by defining a Nation State in terms of Race, Ethnicity or Religion. This is for me obsolete and oxymoronic.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
NM seems shockingly generous in publishing comments from Mattowensrees at all if the current thread is anything to go by.
Islam, a religion of peace
Daniels virtually spilled a lot of digital ink on an argument that could have been succinctly expressed, in its entirety, as “tu quoque“.
Islam, a religion of peace
“Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible “Are They the Same?”
First of all Christianity fares no better at times worst than Islam as practiced by radical.
Historically ALLAH, YAWEI and JEHOVAH IS the same. It is the Preacher, Teacher, Interpreter (PTI) that has interpreted to such present unyielding, and unforgiving ALLAH,love and grace is equated to obedience that make horrendous acts justifiable, chanting Allah Akbar.
As for Christianity, similarly radicals have distorted the true teaching and intent of God to enact so many, again unmentionable acts. Even after ROL is Civil right base as oppose to Islamic country where ROL is Islam.
You might have just started unfortunately a flame war. Good luck defending.
Islam, a religion of peace
Well that’s just it, as a Muslim I would say if Muslims followed the “true” doctrine of Islam, taking in Quran verses, authentic hadith and scholars’ consensus of various matters in ENTIRETY, there would be no ability to justify heinous acts according to Islam.
Islam, a religion of peace
These arguments comparing followers of Islam with other organized acts of religious violence becomes tedious. The crux of the matter revolves around whether those that profess to follow a certain religion actually practice its’ teachings.
In the case of Islam, those that commit what are considered atrocities are able to validate their actions by quoting specific passages of the Qur’an and the Hadith.
To the contrary, TRUE Christianity is encapsulated in the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Sermon On The Mount (Matthew Chapters 5,6,and 7).
Modern pundits will always make reference to violent acts committed by people that profess to be Christians, yet their acts cannot be condoned, or supported by the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.
I would recommend a recently published book at amazon.com or other online books stores that clearly defines the differences between Christianity and Islam.
“Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible “Are They the Same?”
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Just as nationality is not the same as race. They listed 135 national races although of course mixed race ethnicity is commonplace in Burma. Still who’s going to stop people claiming whatever they want to be (the Rohingya being the exception to the rule)?
So those countries that require ethnicity in a census form, such as the United Kingdom, also in surveys for statistical purposes, in your opinion, are uncivilised?
Islam, a religion of peace
QUOTATION – QURAN Chapter 2
190. And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not commit aggression; God does not love the aggressors.
191. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from where they had expelled you. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers.
192. But if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful.
193. And fight them until there is no oppression, and worship becomes devoted to God alone. But if they cease, then let there be no hostility except against the oppressors.
194. The sacred month for the sacred month; and sacrilege calls for retaliation. Whoever commits aggression against you, retaliate against him in the same measure as he has committed against you. And be conscious of God, and know that God is with the righteous.
195. And spend in the cause of God, and do not throw yourselves with your own hands into ruin, and be charitable. God loves the charitable.
source: http://www.clearquran.com/002.html
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Interesting article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/business/international/household-debt-and-signs-of-drought-squeeze-thai-economy.html
Let’s see if Prayuth can avert a peasant revolt.