A rambling, barely coherent lecture by Plan B to the pre-eminent field historian of 21st-century Thailand.
I don’t mean to embarrass you, Nick, but you deserve recognition, and the support and funding that go with it.
“Bosnian Muslim” is hardly an anomaly, anymore than Kosovar or Albanian Muslim. In fact, Rohingya’s themselves are just as anomalous as Bosnians. Why are Bosnians anomalous ? Just because many have blond hair and lightly-pigmented eyes ? Or is it because the Bosnians became Muslims later in history than the Arabians or the Turks ? So what. So did the Albanians. So did Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam). I notice no dearth of Bosnians or recent Western converts to Islam going off to fight for IS (or ISIS or Daesh, if you prefer). The Bosnians and Albanians, once rather secular, are not quite as secular now, as when Tito and Enver Hoxha, respectively, controlled their affairs. Thus, your comment is anomalous. Bamar Muslim is hardly anomalous, though I doubt you will find many Bamar who have converted to Islam. No one is claiming Islam as an ethnic group. Who is, please ? Of course, claiming Islam as an ethnicity is anomalous, since Islam is a religion and way of life, but no ethnic group that claims Islam as their creed is anomalous simply by following Islam. However, one may say a particular individual who is Muslim may be anomalous in the context that their profession of faith is unexpected and unusual. Anomalous is a description that reflects a statistical aberration, which is not reflected in one’s personality. A well-known former Nixon Administration Cabinet member converted to Islam years ago; his prior ideological views seemed inconsistent with his conversion. One may describe his conversion as unusual or unanticipated, but not anomalous.
Finally, what is anomalous is the rabid anti-Bamar rhetoric on New Mandala, which
is unacceptable. Not every Bamar is Ashin Wirathu or a member of 969, but you wouldn’t know it on NM. The hypocrisy of these people who care not one whit when Yazidis (a unique, but not anomalous people), in Iraq, are being slaughtered by IS and their Salafi Muslim adherents, who also say nothing about the 220,000 Syrians slaughtered by fellow Syrian Muslims, but carefully examine with a fine-tooth comb, if perchance, one Rohingya might have had one single hair our of place, and scream bloody murder at the Bamar if one Rohingya child has dysentery, is the very definition of ANOMALY. And if the Rohingya are not synonymous with Bangladeshi Muslims, why is it that my Bengali colleagues can carry on a complete conversation with them, with absolutely no misunderstanding at all, in standard Bengali as spoken in Dhaka or Calcutta ? Rohingya are Muslim Bangladeshi migrants and nothing more.
You talk as if the UK upper house is a acceptable honorable institution Pundit? At least you *omit* any criticism on it’s obvious failings.Just wonder why that is?
HERE ^ Steve, I think you and 41 voters have failed to recognise the real picture.That the elected house in UK are backed financially by banks and elite.That the “other place” (The House of Lords) is stuffed with lackeys of corporate UK plc too.The corporate media plays an enormous part in advancing elitist UK position.The national broadcaster is a right wing upper class institution.But go ahead & use UK as a template,but do NOT omit realities and subtleties of so-called democracies.
Plan B’s comments are correct – i.e.”this coup is different because of the impending departure of the monarch.” The Economist recently speculated that when this departure happens, the current military regime will become EVEN MORE repressive. Certainly, it is at this point, that Thailand is MOST likely to break apart – with the split probably spurred on by such increased repression. This looks an increasingly likely scenario.
Steve,have a look at a new documentry.”Koch Brothers Exposed” (2014) by Brave New Films.It will strengthen my point,about why you should not omit the reality of western “democracies”
Darren, you make some valid points about how both democratic principle and practice can be compromised in UK as also elsewhere. I think you would find it useful to look at Robert Dayley’s piece published here in June – http://www.newmandala.org/2014/06/09/seven-questions-for-thailands-military. In particular look at Question 3. We all know that such procedural democracies like UK are not only far from perfect but are subject to continual challenges, both external and internal. Nonetheless they still work. Maybe you would say they “just work”! I suggest to you that the recent Scottish independence referendum was a good example of effective procedural democracy in action.
Just think you (& Pundit) would better serve the debate if you acknowledged rather than omitted,the very worrying flaws of UK & western democracies.Rather than trying to argue & convince people on a western template.(Which are awful if you look closely).Point is the Thai elites are just worse con-men than their western counterparts
I have read Doctrine Lao too. I know some of the Souvannavong family but not intimately. I would recommend visiting the family temple in the outer suburbs of Vientiane.
Seriously Steve, I don’t think either of you would offer up UK’s democratic system as a beacon of stability & fairplay if you really studied how it works.Take the House of Lords for instance.In there you have unelected representatives of mainly the three corp financed parties,Lab/Lib& Con.The selling off of the NHS has just become one of the hottest topics there is at present,though not in the BBC which is in the process of hiring a banker to head the organisation.Bills put forward to the Lords are then moved into law after it’s been given the nod by the HOL and a second reading.The Lords voting on these bills put forward turn out to be shareholders of these private healthcare firms that will benefit.Can’t see it still Steve ? never mind.
Slightly off topic but, now that a National Reform Council has been constituted, what about the idea of presenting each of them with Robert Dayley’s “Seven Points for Thailand’s Military” (June 9th) http://www.newmandala.org/2014/06/09/seven-questions-for-thailands-military
At the time there was some discussion about whether this might be translated into Thai. Did this idea make any progress?
Matt Owen Rees – what have you contributed to the debate other than dismissing criticism of Blaxland’s article with quite irrelevant points such as that supposedly few of us live in Thailand (sorry, but i do live in Thailand) or throwing around the polemic that “Blaxland was never going to get a fair hearing”, yet without debating a single point of criticism?
You have a problem with the voting system? Who really cares about that? Your “contribution” is to be voted down as it does not contain a single reasonable point to the article discussed here.
If you are in support of Blaxland’s article, and disagree with the criticism raised, then articulate yourself reasonable why you feel that way. That is what generally is called a discussion or a debate.
Loss of land, livelihood, millennial old forests, one of the most important fresh water supply, rich coastal line, women…. It is easy and simply to lump every thing to the Sit-tut. But if one looks around the Burmese cyber field and even people on the street, the sentiment seems to be to become like Singapore or leading the world or Asia or this or that at any cost mentality.
Talk about easy prey! Even the most vicious and voracious predators might get embarrassed.
Actually it’s attacking the system where posters are allowed to vote down or up without reference to the logic or content of the argument. No real debate. Most of the replies are either against the author or for some of the vitriolic comments by those who disagree with him. Few of you live in Thailand anyway and simply don’t have the facts.
No point. You’ll vote down whatever I say. Like many others, I get tired of the flame wars when the messengers and not the message are debated. To be fair to the site owners they have emailed me to say that they cannot control what their members say. That’s not really an excuse as they can stop flaming if they wanted to and stop the voting system discouraging fair debate. Most posters only want people to agree with their views.
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Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
A rambling, barely coherent lecture by Plan B to the pre-eminent field historian of 21st-century Thailand.
I don’t mean to embarrass you, Nick, but you deserve recognition, and the support and funding that go with it.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Nick Nostitz
Thailand is unlike any other comparable country.
A democracy? Not by any mean. Once that become clear using Democratic principles that is know by the west to judge anything is rather wanting.
This is clear that Buddhism, Monarchy, Military and commerce are all what has and will determine the outcome.
This article clearly point to those factors effectively.
What does this author desreve?
May be a direct ? to the fact presented that’s not agreeable and the importance of those maligned instead of dismissal.
Remembering the VANTAGE point of other!
Other more pertinent facts such as consumer price/commerce, Buddhism, Monarch/elitists need to be discuss by on the ground person like your self.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
“Bosnian Muslim” is hardly an anomaly, anymore than Kosovar or Albanian Muslim. In fact, Rohingya’s themselves are just as anomalous as Bosnians. Why are Bosnians anomalous ? Just because many have blond hair and lightly-pigmented eyes ? Or is it because the Bosnians became Muslims later in history than the Arabians or the Turks ? So what. So did the Albanians. So did Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam). I notice no dearth of Bosnians or recent Western converts to Islam going off to fight for IS (or ISIS or Daesh, if you prefer). The Bosnians and Albanians, once rather secular, are not quite as secular now, as when Tito and Enver Hoxha, respectively, controlled their affairs. Thus, your comment is anomalous. Bamar Muslim is hardly anomalous, though I doubt you will find many Bamar who have converted to Islam. No one is claiming Islam as an ethnic group. Who is, please ? Of course, claiming Islam as an ethnicity is anomalous, since Islam is a religion and way of life, but no ethnic group that claims Islam as their creed is anomalous simply by following Islam. However, one may say a particular individual who is Muslim may be anomalous in the context that their profession of faith is unexpected and unusual. Anomalous is a description that reflects a statistical aberration, which is not reflected in one’s personality. A well-known former Nixon Administration Cabinet member converted to Islam years ago; his prior ideological views seemed inconsistent with his conversion. One may describe his conversion as unusual or unanticipated, but not anomalous.
Finally, what is anomalous is the rabid anti-Bamar rhetoric on New Mandala, which
is unacceptable. Not every Bamar is Ashin Wirathu or a member of 969, but you wouldn’t know it on NM. The hypocrisy of these people who care not one whit when Yazidis (a unique, but not anomalous people), in Iraq, are being slaughtered by IS and their Salafi Muslim adherents, who also say nothing about the 220,000 Syrians slaughtered by fellow Syrian Muslims, but carefully examine with a fine-tooth comb, if perchance, one Rohingya might have had one single hair our of place, and scream bloody murder at the Bamar if one Rohingya child has dysentery, is the very definition of ANOMALY. And if the Rohingya are not synonymous with Bangladeshi Muslims, why is it that my Bengali colleagues can carry on a complete conversation with them, with absolutely no misunderstanding at all, in standard Bengali as spoken in Dhaka or Calcutta ? Rohingya are Muslim Bangladeshi migrants and nothing more.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
You talk as if the UK upper house is a acceptable honorable institution Pundit? At least you *omit* any criticism on it’s obvious failings.Just wonder why that is?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
HERE ^ Steve, I think you and 41 voters have failed to recognise the real picture.That the elected house in UK are backed financially by banks and elite.That the “other place” (The House of Lords) is stuffed with lackeys of corporate UK plc too.The corporate media plays an enormous part in advancing elitist UK position.The national broadcaster is a right wing upper class institution.But go ahead & use UK as a template,but do NOT omit realities and subtleties of so-called democracies.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Plan B’s comments are correct – i.e.”this coup is different because of the impending departure of the monarch.” The Economist recently speculated that when this departure happens, the current military regime will become EVEN MORE repressive. Certainly, it is at this point, that Thailand is MOST likely to break apart – with the split probably spurred on by such increased repression. This looks an increasingly likely scenario.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Steve,have a look at a new documentry.”Koch Brothers Exposed” (2014) by Brave New Films.It will strengthen my point,about why you should not omit the reality of western “democracies”
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Darren, you make some valid points about how both democratic principle and practice can be compromised in UK as also elsewhere. I think you would find it useful to look at Robert Dayley’s piece published here in June – http://www.newmandala.org/2014/06/09/seven-questions-for-thailands-military. In particular look at Question 3. We all know that such procedural democracies like UK are not only far from perfect but are subject to continual challenges, both external and internal. Nonetheless they still work. Maybe you would say they “just work”! I suggest to you that the recent Scottish independence referendum was a good example of effective procedural democracy in action.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Just think you (& Pundit) would better serve the debate if you acknowledged rather than omitted,the very worrying flaws of UK & western democracies.Rather than trying to argue & convince people on a western template.(Which are awful if you look closely).Point is the Thai elites are just worse con-men than their western counterparts
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
As of four days ago. Any thoughts on his choice of civilian garb for the weeks/months before that?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Certainly beyond me to “see” why you’re churning out arguments against a position I’ve never taken.
Hence the “straw man” reference…..
Forced disappearance in Southeast Asia
I have read Doctrine Lao too. I know some of the Souvannavong family but not intimately. I would recommend visiting the family temple in the outer suburbs of Vientiane.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Give me another flippant reply,and I’ll give you another example.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Seriously Steve, I don’t think either of you would offer up UK’s democratic system as a beacon of stability & fairplay if you really studied how it works.Take the House of Lords for instance.In there you have unelected representatives of mainly the three corp financed parties,Lab/Lib& Con.The selling off of the NHS has just become one of the hottest topics there is at present,though not in the BBC which is in the process of hiring a banker to head the organisation.Bills put forward to the Lords are then moved into law after it’s been given the nod by the HOL and a second reading.The Lords voting on these bills put forward turn out to be shareholders of these private healthcare firms that will benefit.Can’t see it still Steve ? never mind.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Slightly off topic but, now that a National Reform Council has been constituted, what about the idea of presenting each of them with Robert Dayley’s “Seven Points for Thailand’s Military” (June 9th) http://www.newmandala.org/2014/06/09/seven-questions-for-thailands-military
At the time there was some discussion about whether this might be translated into Thai. Did this idea make any progress?
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Matt Owen Rees – what have you contributed to the debate other than dismissing criticism of Blaxland’s article with quite irrelevant points such as that supposedly few of us live in Thailand (sorry, but i do live in Thailand) or throwing around the polemic that “Blaxland was never going to get a fair hearing”, yet without debating a single point of criticism?
You have a problem with the voting system? Who really cares about that? Your “contribution” is to be voted down as it does not contain a single reasonable point to the article discussed here.
If you are in support of Blaxland’s article, and disagree with the criticism raised, then articulate yourself reasonable why you feel that way. That is what generally is called a discussion or a debate.
Rohingya and national identities in Burma
Loss of land, livelihood, millennial old forests, one of the most important fresh water supply, rich coastal line, women…. It is easy and simply to lump every thing to the Sit-tut. But if one looks around the Burmese cyber field and even people on the street, the sentiment seems to be to become like Singapore or leading the world or Asia or this or that at any cost mentality.
Talk about easy prey! Even the most vicious and voracious predators might get embarrassed.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
“Those holding up the UK as a beacon of democracy…”
http://www.oklascience.org/Straw_Man_Kit.JPG
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
Actually it’s attacking the system where posters are allowed to vote down or up without reference to the logic or content of the argument. No real debate. Most of the replies are either against the author or for some of the vitriolic comments by those who disagree with him. Few of you live in Thailand anyway and simply don’t have the facts.
Thailand’s Prayuth: Not just another coup-maker
No point. You’ll vote down whatever I say. Like many others, I get tired of the flame wars when the messengers and not the message are debated. To be fair to the site owners they have emailed me to say that they cannot control what their members say. That’s not really an excuse as they can stop flaming if they wanted to and stop the voting system discouraging fair debate. Most posters only want people to agree with their views.