That photo may well be genuine – but a bit of caution is surely necessary, as there have been extensive photoshop-based efforts to discredit Jokowi during this campaign. For example, pictures taken from his appearance before a vast crowd at Monas have been edited, with sections of the crowd copied and pasted over one another – these edited versions are then passed off as the ‘original’ photo, alongside claims that Jokowi supporters faked the turnout.
“New” Indonesia is an Indonesia without Papua,
which should be appended to Papua New Guinea.
The division of the Island is absurd, as is Indonesian control over a people, with whom, it has very little in common. Papuans, even with their great linguistic diversity, all belong under one nation, Papua New Guinea.
I’ve not said ““to hell with the bourgeoisie if they don’t support democracy”. I’ve simply pointed out that the urban/Bangkok middle class supporters of the coup are not fearful about democracy because of the reasons Saxer stated (ie corruption, abuse of power, incompetence – three things the military delvers in spades) but because they are anxious of an enlarged bourgeoisie whose new members have gained access via democracy and entrepreneurship.
The only thing that seems to placate this relatively small element of the bourgeoisie (the urban/Bangkok middle class) is the complete destruction of democracy and an entrenchment of themselves.
Should we then seek to placate them further based on false notions of what they are seeking or, instead, seek to strengthen and support those elements of the bourgeoisie more committed to democracy than the people Saxer seems to favor?
“Perhaps Jokowi should already start planning another umroh.”
Especially when people are saying his current one is a failure..
Jokowi should probably consider hiring a better advisor on Muslim affairs.
Dr Ian Douglas Wilson?
Have read your thesis about Inner Power: The Politics of Pencak Silat in West Java and it was amazing.
Reading this article have also clarify some myth surrounding Hercules. I would like to share this article but I think I’ll wait until the election day.
G’day Dave,
I’m with you on some things and with Marc Saxer on others. We are no doubt all supporters of democracy. Unlike you I am not a supporter of democracy for its own sake. I support it because democracies are the most peaceful societies to live in. I don’t think you can get that by saying, effectively, “to hell with the bourgeoisie if they don’t support democracy”. You have to get them on side. It took the European bourgeoisie two devastating wars, and the American example to do that. In America, the great light on the hill for them, you could still get filthy rich in a democracy. Now that America is in decline and causing so much trouble in the world, the light is losing its luminance. I suspect that the world’s middle classes are all swinging to the right. The result will be a dramatic reset of the world’s human population.
The Isarn saparatist underground is waiting for its opportunity, wich is obviously not now. Meanwhile they’re spreading their message : i.e. that Isarn people will NEVER be treated as equal within the “Thai” State. Indeed the Thai State is doing much of their propaganda work for them, on this.
Meanwhile, Isarn is arming. The Thai Stae can report as many arms cache finds as it wants. That is NOT where the Isarn separatists stash their arms.
This is another absorbing post on how the Jokowi campaign has fared. If Jokowi manages to win despite the problems the two authors allude to, he will still face formidable challenges. The first will be how to create a parliamentary majority. Luring some of five parties currently backing Gerindra over to his side will require some hard bargaining, for which Jokowi doesn’t seem to have much taste.
Part of the bargaining will have to be about the composition of his cabinet. In this task, his negotiating opposite number in chief will be none other than his patroness, Megawati. What kind of PDIP dead wood will she try to inflict on him? Will Jokowi want to have the wicked fairy, Puan, haunting his cabinet meetings? Presumably the parties already supporting him, starting with PKB, will be insistent on receiving greater spoils than any johnnies-come-lately that may turn up after the poll result is declared.
Perhaps Jokowi should already start planning another umroh.
Agree with the patronage bit and the corrupt bit but not the feudal bit. Thaksin’s patronage system derives mainly from its political power and that political power mainly derives from its democratic mandate. Doesn’t meant it isnt corrupt but it’s clearly not equivalent to the royal patronage system which has derived its power purely through being born into a certain family.
And, what about the other patronage systems that you don’t mention that operate beyond any kind of democratic system? The military one? The bureaucracy one? The other billionaire families that are all far far richer than the Shinawatras?
The constant over-egging of the Shinawatras has always served a useful purpose in that it detracts attention from the far greater, more deleterious corruption of the military-amaart complex.
I call you reactionary based on an argued position.
You call me “idiotic” because you don’t address my arguments – so your earlier accusations of “ad hom” now look to be as empty as the meaningless definitions and platitudes in your piece.
As for “Thais know best” – I stated we should support Thai democracy not the Bangkok middle classes whom you seem to believe have been so hard done by and are so committed to tackling corruption, abuses of power and incompetence at the same moment whilst they support an illegal coup d’etat!
And why are my arguments invalid because I am not familiar or interested in an economist whose theories you favour?
Your slightly hysterical over-reaction seems more Thai amaart than any European left-of-centre academic I’ve ever known.
Maybe you’ve been in Bangkok just a little bit too long?
Where are all those pundits who were saying that ‘the military knows it can’t stage a coup’? BTW some of my students lean to either side, but they are ALL disgusted with what they see as the never-ending stream of self-serving businessman/politicians which national elections in Thailand throw up.
Oh, shame on you Answer, wrote this based on rumours.
1. Re ask your witnesses, did they heard it from Sigit’s mouth? Because he clarifies that he actually wanted to catch that guy, if any. Rumours always starts with “katanya katanya katanya”
4. From your writing, I just wondering if you understand what are the difference between Bawaslu, Panwaslu, PPLN, KPPSLN and how it works.
This is the second attack to KPU members who are not coming from KPUD. The first one is on Hadar. Btw, another KPU member, Juri is there too. Where is he in your “Mayhem?”
I find the information on the Jakarta Post article questionable.
Lintong Manurung is not KIRA chairman; that would be Murphy Hutagalung. The article gives the impression that KIRA has defected to Jokowi camp in its entirety, but that’s far from reality. Gerindra issued an internal memo & press statement clarifying that Lintong was not on the KIRA board since August 2013.
Here’re some highlights of the official response:
““Berdasarkan klarifikasi yang kami terima dari Sekjen KIRA, Eliezer H. Hardjo. Lintong Manurung bukan pengurus KIRA terhitung sejak Agustus 2013.”
“Ketua Umum PETIR, Budi Cahyono juga telah menyampaikan klarifikasi bahwa Nanek Nandwani sudah tidak aktif lagi di organisasi PETIR lebih dari setahun yang lalu.”
I wonder if the Jakarta Post checked with KIRA & PETIR before running that story?
The fact that the article made no mention of this “alternative official view” does seem to suggest no.
Mr Raiwa, given your curious family name, you may feel more at ease talking about the elites and monarchy than most others. So why don’t you take the floor and fire away?
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All Quiet on the Eastern Front
That photo may well be genuine – but a bit of caution is surely necessary, as there have been extensive photoshop-based efforts to discredit Jokowi during this campaign. For example, pictures taken from his appearance before a vast crowd at Monas have been edited, with sections of the crowd copied and pasted over one another – these edited versions are then passed off as the ‘original’ photo, alongside claims that Jokowi supporters faked the turnout.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Ulasan yg menarik… semoga rakyat Indonesia tidak salah pilih
Presidential elections in Papua
“New” Indonesia is an Indonesia without Papua,
which should be appended to Papua New Guinea.
The division of the Island is absurd, as is Indonesian control over a people, with whom, it has very little in common. Papuans, even with their great linguistic diversity, all belong under one nation, Papua New Guinea.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
RN England
I’ve not said ““to hell with the bourgeoisie if they don’t support democracy”. I’ve simply pointed out that the urban/Bangkok middle class supporters of the coup are not fearful about democracy because of the reasons Saxer stated (ie corruption, abuse of power, incompetence – three things the military delvers in spades) but because they are anxious of an enlarged bourgeoisie whose new members have gained access via democracy and entrepreneurship.
The only thing that seems to placate this relatively small element of the bourgeoisie (the urban/Bangkok middle class) is the complete destruction of democracy and an entrenchment of themselves.
Should we then seek to placate them further based on false notions of what they are seeking or, instead, seek to strengthen and support those elements of the bourgeoisie more committed to democracy than the people Saxer seems to favor?
How will Papua vote?
“How will Papua vote” ?
For Independence from Indonesia, of course.
All Quiet on the Eastern Front
“Perhaps Jokowi should already start planning another umroh.”
Especially when people are saying his current one is a failure..
Jokowi should probably consider hiring a better advisor on Muslim affairs.
http://m.inilah.com/read/detail/2117169/beredar-foto-jokowi-pakai-baju-ihram-terbalik
The perils of loyalty
Dr Ian Douglas Wilson?
Have read your thesis about Inner Power: The Politics of Pencak Silat in West Java and it was amazing.
Reading this article have also clarify some myth surrounding Hercules. I would like to share this article but I think I’ll wait until the election day.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
G’day Dave,
I’m with you on some things and with Marc Saxer on others. We are no doubt all supporters of democracy. Unlike you I am not a supporter of democracy for its own sake. I support it because democracies are the most peaceful societies to live in. I don’t think you can get that by saying, effectively, “to hell with the bourgeoisie if they don’t support democracy”. You have to get them on side. It took the European bourgeoisie two devastating wars, and the American example to do that. In America, the great light on the hill for them, you could still get filthy rich in a democracy. Now that America is in decline and causing so much trouble in the world, the light is losing its luminance. I suspect that the world’s middle classes are all swinging to the right. The result will be a dramatic reset of the world’s human population.
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
Very well researched, Chris
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
The Isarn saparatist underground is waiting for its opportunity, wich is obviously not now. Meanwhile they’re spreading their message : i.e. that Isarn people will NEVER be treated as equal within the “Thai” State. Indeed the Thai State is doing much of their propaganda work for them, on this.
Meanwhile, Isarn is arming. The Thai Stae can report as many arms cache finds as it wants. That is NOT where the Isarn separatists stash their arms.
Counting Thailand’s coups
[…] on Thailand’s history of coups over the past century, there is little reason to suggest the current military […]
All Quiet on the Eastern Front
This is another absorbing post on how the Jokowi campaign has fared. If Jokowi manages to win despite the problems the two authors allude to, he will still face formidable challenges. The first will be how to create a parliamentary majority. Luring some of five parties currently backing Gerindra over to his side will require some hard bargaining, for which Jokowi doesn’t seem to have much taste.
Part of the bargaining will have to be about the composition of his cabinet. In this task, his negotiating opposite number in chief will be none other than his patroness, Megawati. What kind of PDIP dead wood will she try to inflict on him? Will Jokowi want to have the wicked fairy, Puan, haunting his cabinet meetings? Presumably the parties already supporting him, starting with PKB, will be insistent on receiving greater spoils than any johnnies-come-lately that may turn up after the poll result is declared.
Perhaps Jokowi should already start planning another umroh.
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
I don’t need to re-read it. But as you say some of it went over your head.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
R N England,
Agree with the patronage bit and the corrupt bit but not the feudal bit. Thaksin’s patronage system derives mainly from its political power and that political power mainly derives from its democratic mandate. Doesn’t meant it isnt corrupt but it’s clearly not equivalent to the royal patronage system which has derived its power purely through being born into a certain family.
And, what about the other patronage systems that you don’t mention that operate beyond any kind of democratic system? The military one? The bureaucracy one? The other billionaire families that are all far far richer than the Shinawatras?
The constant over-egging of the Shinawatras has always served a useful purpose in that it detracts attention from the far greater, more deleterious corruption of the military-amaart complex.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Marc
I call you reactionary based on an argued position.
You call me “idiotic” because you don’t address my arguments – so your earlier accusations of “ad hom” now look to be as empty as the meaningless definitions and platitudes in your piece.
As for “Thais know best” – I stated we should support Thai democracy not the Bangkok middle classes whom you seem to believe have been so hard done by and are so committed to tackling corruption, abuses of power and incompetence at the same moment whilst they support an illegal coup d’etat!
And why are my arguments invalid because I am not familiar or interested in an economist whose theories you favour?
Your slightly hysterical over-reaction seems more Thai amaart than any European left-of-centre academic I’ve ever known.
Maybe you’ve been in Bangkok just a little bit too long?
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Where are all those pundits who were saying that ‘the military knows it can’t stage a coup’? BTW some of my students lean to either side, but they are ALL disgusted with what they see as the never-ending stream of self-serving businessman/politicians which national elections in Thailand throw up.
Mayhem in Victoria Park
Oh, shame on you Answer, wrote this based on rumours.
1. Re ask your witnesses, did they heard it from Sigit’s mouth? Because he clarifies that he actually wanted to catch that guy, if any. Rumours always starts with “katanya katanya katanya”
http://nasional.kompas.com/read/2014/07/07/15520771/Dituduh.Tidak.Netral.Sigit.Pamungkas.Sebut.Fakta.Diputarbalikkan
Sigit is coordinating training for KPUD all over Indonesia, if he want to take side, he would use smarter moves rather than collecting 100 votes.
Didn’t you know that Bawaslu chief, Muhammad was there too?
http://nasional.kompas.com/read/2014/07/07/15223911/Bawaslu.Kisruh.di.Hong.Kong.Karena.Pemilih.yang.Sudah.Nyoblos.Ingin.Nyoblos.Lagi
2. Apart from what Muhammad said above, here is the testimony of the KPPSLN citing in Kompas.
http://nasional.kompas.com/read/2014/07/07/16092391/Kericuhan.di.Hongkong.Baru.Mulai.Ketika.Pemungutan.Suara.Sudah.Usai
3. You should be smarter rather than citing an article on Merdeka and considered it as facts.
To add, here the Bawaslu comment: http://indonesiasatu.kompas.com/read/2014/07/07/15285101/Bawaslu.Mengaku.Dilematis.Soal.Kisruh.Pilpres.di.Hong.Kong.
4. From your writing, I just wondering if you understand what are the difference between Bawaslu, Panwaslu, PPLN, KPPSLN and how it works.
This is the second attack to KPU members who are not coming from KPUD. The first one is on Hadar. Btw, another KPU member, Juri is there too. Where is he in your “Mayhem?”
Striving for safety
I find the information on the Jakarta Post article questionable.
Lintong Manurung is not KIRA chairman; that would be Murphy Hutagalung. The article gives the impression that KIRA has defected to Jokowi camp in its entirety, but that’s far from reality. Gerindra issued an internal memo & press statement clarifying that Lintong was not on the KIRA board since August 2013.
Here’re some highlights of the official response:
““Berdasarkan klarifikasi yang kami terima dari Sekjen KIRA, Eliezer H. Hardjo. Lintong Manurung bukan pengurus KIRA terhitung sejak Agustus 2013.”
“Ketua Umum PETIR, Budi Cahyono juga telah menyampaikan klarifikasi bahwa Nanek Nandwani sudah tidak aktif lagi di organisasi PETIR lebih dari setahun yang lalu.”
I wonder if the Jakarta Post checked with KIRA & PETIR before running that story?
The fact that the article made no mention of this “alternative official view” does seem to suggest no.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
[…] public speech recommending that Indonesia shift away from Western-style democracy, which he called not "suitable" for the […]
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Mr Raiwa, given your curious family name, you may feel more at ease talking about the elites and monarchy than most others. So why don’t you take the floor and fire away?