Now I remember. he even wrote some articles for NM. I actually never took him seriously.
You said “he made his point eloquently with an axe to grind”. Wasn’t Hitler like that too?
About “his obvious talent and charms with exotic tales to tell from a unique perspective”. You must be kidding right? Who in his/her right mind would believe in snake charmers and the like. Western academics and NGOs must be extremely naive and young (anyone under 60 for me) to put up these Burmese snake-oil charlatans from Hla Oo to Pascal Khoo Thwe to Thant Myint Oo to … on such high pedestals. Even Wikipedia considers such people “Burma experts” and a lot of Ph.D. students that I know blindly trust whatever Wikipedia says. What a gullible and ignorant world!
By the way, Hla Oo ssys on his blog that he is a day trader. He should specialise in exotic money-laundering perhaps!
very interesting…. makes me feel that deindustrialisation, implies de-unionisation, implies reduction in voters motivations to seriously consider their votes which implies democracy is at risk
which explains why neo-liberals (aka right-wing fascist) elite preferring parties are taking over our “peoples” governments … US leading the way, Australia, etc, etc rushing to follow the US
and what you are suggesting is that developing countries such as Thailand are lacking significant, coordinated. organisational drivers toward democratic government
and the Indonesian presidential election is showing signs their electors are tired of “weak non-dictatorial” competitive democratic governments
will China’s single party model become preferred and generally replace multi-party democracy within the next 20 years …..????
The hidden hand has so many tentacles. I assume those were rhetorical questions, toch. Give the man some credit. He made his point eloquently with an axe to grind, and NM’s been had by his obvious talent and charms with exotic tales to tell from a unique perspective.
I am a Chinese Indonesian and to be honest I HATE being called chinese by so many people. So what? Yes, my parents’ ethnicity are Chinese, but I have nothing to do with China and all my relatives live in Indonesia. I embrace the culture here and I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE. I AM AN INDONESIAN and I’m proud of it.
It’s time to fully embrace Bhinneka Tunggal Ika and stop calling people names using their own ethnicity. Batak, chinese, sunda, whatever, we are united in diversity. It’s time to revolutionize our mental, our way of thinking as a nation.
Dear Niphon,
a better definition of the elites and middle classes (plural) is indeed needed. The discourse communities are partly meant to structure these horizontal segments vertically, as they cut through all classes and produce a more nuanced landscape. I did another discourse map in my study on “Fighting corruption in transformation countries”. http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/thailand/10744.pdf
I have integrated the struggle over the economic and political control in the greater analysis in a series of papers on Thailand (find under http://www.fes-Thailand.org) , but I will sketch a more compact overall theoretical framework for the book.
You call me reactionary, I call you idiotic, and this will be all I have to say. Communication is a two way street, and I refuse to play the role of the passive author who let anonymous trolls smear his reputation and call him names. If you want a mature discussion, look how others do it here on this thread, and engage me in a civilized way.
Btw it doesn’t really make you look too good to be unfamiliar with Amartya Sen’s capabilities approach.
And please leave me alone with the junta propaganda of “Thais know best”. Shameful, really.
[…] Prabowo to respond to the Taman Ismail Marzuki controversy and his views on democracy more broadly. Prabowo’s answer gives us greater insight into his thinking and should lead to more, not less, concern about what he […]
Now, if Jokowi were really smart, he would take a leaf from the US CIA workbook of the 1950s. The plan was to use a look-a-like of Soekarno, make a “blue” film, and distribute it throughout Indonesia. They found a kampung villager who looked just like Soekarno, paid him to romp a little, and did a dry run, by giving away the cassettes free to anyone, in Java, that wanted them. The idea, of course, was to belittle Soekarno, in the eyes of his fans, as the US was not very enamoured of Soekarno. Well, unfortunately, it didn’t quite turn out the way it was hoped; Soekarno’s popularity was said to increase about 15 %, after the “blue” films were distributed. I urge Jokowi’s handlers to find a look-a-like, make some “blue” films, distribute them widely, claim that Prabowo made them to embarrass Jokowi so he would lose, and then watch Jokowi proceed to win
in a landslide.
Thank you for your explanations. I think we who live in Thailand all sympathize with the difficulties posed by the need to stay within Thai a law that is vague and implemented in strange and cruel ways. Still there seems to be sufficient confusion over the meaning, in Thai context, of key terms like “middle class” and “elite” to warrant more effort of definition. This is hardly your problem alone, but is seen in much of the literature on Thai politics. The failure to define key terms leads to uncertainty and difficulty in assessing.
I did not mean to say that you overlooked the power conflict completely, but that it doesn’t seem to have a place in your schematic diagram. Political self interest and patronage groups clearly play a role in the conflict, so if you can work out how to include that in your diagram, I think it would be helpful. Thai people are not only moved to action by discourses but by personal obligations, connections, benefits and loyalty. These factors often override aspects such as education, wealth, origin and class in deciding who they will side with in conflict.
Even if not agreeing with everything you wrote, Thai people should appreciate your focus on finding ways out of the mess, not just criticizing. Hopefully your Thai language book will come out in time to make a difference in the critical events likely to unfold in the next year or two.
Just when I was positively surprised that a troll actually provides some useful argument you jump back into a bar stool fight. Likening my position to the PDRC is just plain idiotic.
“Full capabilities” refers to Amatya Sen’s conceptif justice. Sen assigns to state and market the task to provide to all members of society all means necessary to explore all potential -eg health care, education, social security, local development, infrastructure. Providing capabilities will allow economies to escape the Middle Income Track and move up the value chain. Socially, it allows all classes to agree on a social contract.
So no, the quick gains does not refer to health care, but to rice pledging. And if you read carefully, all classes have to give and take. The elites have to agree to full democracy- the safeguards are the rule of law and checks and balances – but as in a real democracy, not the patronage infested version of Thailand.
[…] dengan landasan filosofi bangsa. Menyusul munculnya analisis tentang pernyataan tersebut, Prabowo mengaku tidak menolak pilpres langsung, namun tetap menyatakan lebih menyukai sistem Westminster yang bertolak belakang dengan sistem […]
This revealing post prompts the question to what extent the Jokowi-Kalla ticket has been weakened by neither of them being a party chair or fully in control of a party apparatus, unlike both Prabowo and Hatta. If Prabowo wins and does indeed restore MPR-centred presidential elections, this distinction may not matter much.
Let’s hope that Jokowi’s umroh gives him the spiritual or physical solace that he is seeking. One would like to know whether he has taken along with him Muhaimin Iskandar, that lion-hearted defender of Indonesian maids in Saudi Arabia waiting on death row or at least facing milder forms of ill-treatment and exploitation.
Marc Saxer’s essay and analysis is a very good one. I don’t see why he should be subjected to such harsh comment, for simply not revealing that he works for the Bangkok branch of the research arm of Germany’s Social Democrat Party, the party of Willy Brandt. The fact this was not initially mentioned may have been simply minor oversight by the over-worked Nicholas Farrelly and Andrew Walker. Anyone who wanted to find out more about who Marc Saxer was, and who he worked for, was easily able to do so via the internet.
This recurring conflict would be boring in its consistency of nurturing as well as its genesis and laughable in its bigoted assumptions were it not for its tragic consequences to life and property every time. Not just an ugly black mark stamped again and again over the country’s troubled history, above all a stubborn cancer recurring in our body politic, sapping its real strength in its inherent diversity.
It is almost hopeless, indeed wet behind the ears ignorant, to talk about living together in peace and harmony when the ruling class habitually uses such divide and rule strategies whenever crisis looms to threaten their own sick and corrupt domination over the nation especially their own selfish survival.
Whereas details and specifics are relevant, it serves the rulers when the rest of us fail to see the wood for the trees.
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
Now I remember. he even wrote some articles for NM. I actually never took him seriously.
You said “he made his point eloquently with an axe to grind”. Wasn’t Hitler like that too?
About “his obvious talent and charms with exotic tales to tell from a unique perspective”. You must be kidding right? Who in his/her right mind would believe in snake charmers and the like. Western academics and NGOs must be extremely naive and young (anyone under 60 for me) to put up these Burmese snake-oil charlatans from Hla Oo to Pascal Khoo Thwe to Thant Myint Oo to … on such high pedestals. Even Wikipedia considers such people “Burma experts” and a lot of Ph.D. students that I know blindly trust whatever Wikipedia says. What a gullible and ignorant world!
By the way, Hla Oo ssys on his blog that he is a day trader. He should specialise in exotic money-laundering perhaps!
Striving for safety
Found a reply on that link that clarify the situation. Just to make sure we can see from both sides.
http://www.antaranews.com/pemilu/berita/441998/dukungan-kira-terhadap-jokowi-jk-tidak-benar
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
very interesting…. makes me feel that deindustrialisation, implies de-unionisation, implies reduction in voters motivations to seriously consider their votes which implies democracy is at risk
which explains why neo-liberals (aka right-wing fascist) elite preferring parties are taking over our “peoples” governments … US leading the way, Australia, etc, etc rushing to follow the US
and what you are suggesting is that developing countries such as Thailand are lacking significant, coordinated. organisational drivers toward democratic government
and the Indonesian presidential election is showing signs their electors are tired of “weak non-dictatorial” competitive democratic governments
will China’s single party model become preferred and generally replace multi-party democracy within the next 20 years …..????
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
The hidden hand has so many tentacles. I assume those were rhetorical questions, toch. Give the man some credit. He made his point eloquently with an axe to grind, and NM’s been had by his obvious talent and charms with exotic tales to tell from a unique perspective.
Striving for safety
I am a Chinese Indonesian and to be honest I HATE being called chinese by so many people. So what? Yes, my parents’ ethnicity are Chinese, but I have nothing to do with China and all my relatives live in Indonesia. I embrace the culture here and I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE. I AM AN INDONESIAN and I’m proud of it.
It’s time to fully embrace Bhinneka Tunggal Ika and stop calling people names using their own ethnicity. Batak, chinese, sunda, whatever, we are united in diversity. It’s time to revolutionize our mental, our way of thinking as a nation.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Dear Niphon,
a better definition of the elites and middle classes (plural) is indeed needed. The discourse communities are partly meant to structure these horizontal segments vertically, as they cut through all classes and produce a more nuanced landscape. I did another discourse map in my study on “Fighting corruption in transformation countries”. http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/thailand/10744.pdf
I have integrated the struggle over the economic and political control in the greater analysis in a series of papers on Thailand (find under http://www.fes-Thailand.org) , but I will sketch a more compact overall theoretical framework for the book.
Thanks again for your useful comments.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
You call me reactionary, I call you idiotic, and this will be all I have to say. Communication is a two way street, and I refuse to play the role of the passive author who let anonymous trolls smear his reputation and call him names. If you want a mature discussion, look how others do it here on this thread, and engage me in a civilized way.
Btw it doesn’t really make you look too good to be unfamiliar with Amartya Sen’s capabilities approach.
And please leave me alone with the junta propaganda of “Thais know best”. Shameful, really.
Symbols of success
[…] knows that symbols of strength have worked for him. For more than 30 years before the 1998 reformation, students in […]
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
[…] Prabowo to respond to the Taman Ismail Marzuki controversy and his views on democracy more broadly. Prabowo’s answer gives us greater insight into his thinking and should lead to more, not less, concern about what he […]
Field notes on the Jokowi campaign
Now, if Jokowi were really smart, he would take a leaf from the US CIA workbook of the 1950s. The plan was to use a look-a-like of Soekarno, make a “blue” film, and distribute it throughout Indonesia. They found a kampung villager who looked just like Soekarno, paid him to romp a little, and did a dry run, by giving away the cassettes free to anyone, in Java, that wanted them. The idea, of course, was to belittle Soekarno, in the eyes of his fans, as the US was not very enamoured of Soekarno. Well, unfortunately, it didn’t quite turn out the way it was hoped; Soekarno’s popularity was said to increase about 15 %, after the “blue” films were distributed. I urge Jokowi’s handlers to find a look-a-like, make some “blue” films, distribute them widely, claim that Prabowo made them to embarrass Jokowi so he would lose, and then watch Jokowi proceed to win
in a landslide.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Mr. Saxer,
Thank you for your explanations. I think we who live in Thailand all sympathize with the difficulties posed by the need to stay within Thai a law that is vague and implemented in strange and cruel ways. Still there seems to be sufficient confusion over the meaning, in Thai context, of key terms like “middle class” and “elite” to warrant more effort of definition. This is hardly your problem alone, but is seen in much of the literature on Thai politics. The failure to define key terms leads to uncertainty and difficulty in assessing.
I did not mean to say that you overlooked the power conflict completely, but that it doesn’t seem to have a place in your schematic diagram. Political self interest and patronage groups clearly play a role in the conflict, so if you can work out how to include that in your diagram, I think it would be helpful. Thai people are not only moved to action by discourses but by personal obligations, connections, benefits and loyalty. These factors often override aspects such as education, wealth, origin and class in deciding who they will side with in conflict.
Even if not agreeing with everything you wrote, Thai people should appreciate your focus on finding ways out of the mess, not just criticizing. Hopefully your Thai language book will come out in time to make a difference in the critical events likely to unfold in the next year or two.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Just when I was positively surprised that a troll actually provides some useful argument you jump back into a bar stool fight. Likening my position to the PDRC is just plain idiotic.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
“Full capabilities” refers to Amatya Sen’s conceptif justice. Sen assigns to state and market the task to provide to all members of society all means necessary to explore all potential -eg health care, education, social security, local development, infrastructure. Providing capabilities will allow economies to escape the Middle Income Track and move up the value chain. Socially, it allows all classes to agree on a social contract.
So no, the quick gains does not refer to health care, but to rice pledging. And if you read carefully, all classes have to give and take. The elites have to agree to full democracy- the safeguards are the rule of law and checks and balances – but as in a real democracy, not the patronage infested version of Thailand.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
[…] dengan landasan filosofi bangsa. Menyusul munculnya analisis tentang pernyataan tersebut, Prabowo mengaku tidak menolak pilpres langsung, namun tetap menyatakan lebih menyukai sistem Westminster yang bertolak belakang dengan sistem […]
Field notes on the Jokowi campaign
This revealing post prompts the question to what extent the Jokowi-Kalla ticket has been weakened by neither of them being a party chair or fully in control of a party apparatus, unlike both Prabowo and Hatta. If Prabowo wins and does indeed restore MPR-centred presidential elections, this distinction may not matter much.
Let’s hope that Jokowi’s umroh gives him the spiritual or physical solace that he is seeking. One would like to know whether he has taken along with him Muhaimin Iskandar, that lion-hearted defender of Indonesian maids in Saudi Arabia waiting on death row or at least facing milder forms of ill-treatment and exploitation.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Marc Saxer’s essay and analysis is a very good one. I don’t see why he should be subjected to such harsh comment, for simply not revealing that he works for the Bangkok branch of the research arm of Germany’s Social Democrat Party, the party of Willy Brandt. The fact this was not initially mentioned may have been simply minor oversight by the over-worked Nicholas Farrelly and Andrew Walker. Anyone who wanted to find out more about who Marc Saxer was, and who he worked for, was easily able to do so via the internet.
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
This recurring conflict would be boring in its consistency of nurturing as well as its genesis and laughable in its bigoted assumptions were it not for its tragic consequences to life and property every time. Not just an ugly black mark stamped again and again over the country’s troubled history, above all a stubborn cancer recurring in our body politic, sapping its real strength in its inherent diversity.
It is almost hopeless, indeed wet behind the ears ignorant, to talk about living together in peace and harmony when the ruling class habitually uses such divide and rule strategies whenever crisis looms to threaten their own sick and corrupt domination over the nation especially their own selfish survival.
Whereas details and specifics are relevant, it serves the rulers when the rest of us fail to see the wood for the trees.
Indonesians are not idiots
Indonesians are not idiots. Unfortunately, many are not well informed.
Field notes on the Jokowi campaign
It makes me wonder if it reflects how he would carry out the job should he be elected as president. Shambolically?
Field notes on the Jokowi campaign
@bili – despite having ex military on both sides, perhaps who excels comes down to the very basic competency and quality?