Although i agree with your idea of having a positive campaign, but when facing with irrational voters such as the one we have in Indonesia, sometimes the best way to gain ground is by playing the same game as Prabowo. We can see now how Indonesians are buying into these filth that the Prabowo team has put out there about Jokowi, to the point where they had to falsify a letter, a telephone transcript, and many other actions to get the public opinion on their side. In a rational state of mind, people would get discourage by these tactics but conversely they are eating it up to the point that Prabowo is gaining significant ground. I think that for the greater good of the country and to ensure that the situation described in this article doesnt happen, the Jokowi team has to get down and dirty and must stoop to their level. Perhaps once elected, through his mental revolution, the mindset and how people think in Indonesia can forever be altered for the better.
“Thaksin Shinawatra had created what is now called “red shirts.” He has used a Maoist model, despite himself being a Wall Street proxy, a billionaire, and a corporate fascist. To him, Maoism is a ready-made solution to marshaling the poor, brainwashing them, and getting them to throw their lives away for him, the billionaire “chairman.”
While he promotes “populist” polices, these always end up in disaster, with his political cronies looting funds, and the rural poor being left in even more dire circumstances. His “rice scheme” left over a million farmers unpaid, in debt, and many desperate enough to go as far as suicide.
How ironic would it be if the current Thai government seized all of Thaksin Shinawatra’s assets, from his multiple office towers, his TV stations, his fake university, and his mega-real estate empire, and “redistributed” it in the truest “Maoist” tradition?
I would start by preserving his businesses, but dividing them up and doled out as “bounties” for those willing to turn their back on the Shinawatra’s and their anti-Thai, anti-Monarch network. Next, whatever was left, would be put into Shinawatra’s corrupt village funds and redistributed – so instead of state money stolen from hardworking tax payers, it would be ill-gotten wealth seized from a corrupt, meddling billionaire.
It’s just a dream, but perhaps a good way to get these “reds” refocused in a new direction. With the loot gone for good, maybe all these terrorists still hiding out waiting for their cue from Dubai/Hong Kong/Cambodia, will abandon their cause realizing their payday will never come…”
Dear Bart,
You’ve repeated your comments to understand better the Prabowo voter in multiple posts. We’ve been listening and we recognise the need to invite pro-Prabowo posts as much as critiques, however in a polarised election, we’ve struggled to find people to write these kinds of articles. Hopefully this week with the articles we have planned we’ll get closer to answering your question as to why Prabowo has been as effective as he has been. Thanks for continuing to read New Mandala.
It makes for interesting reading – compulsive in more ways than one. Perhaps she could tell us if she has been moved to take the same approach to PDRC activities?
On her latest piece, most has already been said – so I’ll add only that I searched in vain for anything that truly amounts to being “different” about this coup. Except, perhaps, that it looks set to be even more draconian than its 2006 predecessor – but I doubt that’s what Dr Deekana and friend intend to convey in this strange apologia for it…..
A translation of this most recent piece by Ed and Marcus should be up on New Mandala tomorrow. Thanks very much for the endorsement of this effort. Keep an eye out for the translation and do tell your friends.
Dear pak Ed and pak Marcus, it would be much better if somebody can translate this piece so i (and other friends) can share this article broadly to other friends who can not understand English sufficiently. Approaching the election date, this insightful writing will be very useful to enlighten others who are still deciding for whom they will cast their vote for. Thank you.
The reason Jokowi does not address this is because he doesn’t want to be dragged in a mud-slinging contests that Prabowo’s supporters have started from early on. He prefers not to fracture the nation with this issue since he’s a pragmatic realist. He realises that if Prabowo happened to be win (God forbid!), Indonesia cannot afford to be fractured further. Instead, he concettates on developing positive approach in his campaign, and this is one of the reasons, that albeit with all of his weaknesses, I still see him as my kind of Presiden. As he once said, diplomacy is a better solution rather than war, and I applaud him for this. We, the volunteers and the supporters, are requested to follow his example, not to use negative campaigns, slanders, misinformations and other low down campaign tactics, but stay on the right side of promotive positive points of his leadership and his programs. Whether he wins or loses, he will come up clean and honest, and that is more important than winning by cheating
The issues here are larger than one candidate. In order to understand the threats to democracy, it’s important to understand the appeal of Prabowo and why a large portion of the electorate favors ketegasan over a message of clean governance. Even if Jokowi wins, a significant number of Indonesians will have voted for Prabowo. Understanding the appeal of Prabowo is essential (New Order nostalgia, frustration with the Reformasi era, growing intolerance). This appeal is the real threat to further reforms and democracy in Indonesia, not just one candidate.
Andrew quotes Sukhumband via FEER: “The second major role [of the King]is that of the last-resort conflict manager when the stresses and strains of the system reach a point of crisis. On several occasions since 1973, the palace has intervened to restrain military groups which would have toppled the government, caused bloodshed or precipitated unpredictable crises. In turn, this role creates a balance – precarious at times to be sure – among the power groups: military, bureaucracy, political parties and business interests. ”
So, could we imagine that a younger, fitter Bhumiphol might have brokered a deal between the Yingluck government and Suthep’s PDRC? This surely should have been the proper function of a constitutional monarch. It would surely have been impossible for either party not to accept; the government always indicated its readiness to talk and Suthep could hardly have rejected the royal command. The army too would have had to fall in line. But do we have a situation where the Privy Council, in particular Prem, is actually exercising the monarchical function? He/they were presumably set on ousting the government in any event. Might HMK have acted differently or am I being unnecessarily charitable to him?
I can’t see this coup is any different from any other.
prayuth and his army say they are bringing happiness to the country, well I suppose the network monarchy and the whistle blowers are happy but what about he rest of the population? They are not allowed to say and no one is allowed to ask.
The yellows like to pretend it’s all about Thaksin but really it’s all about any elected government the network monarchy disapproves, hence the reforms before elections. They have got to make sure they never lose control of the government again.
The big trouble has just been put on hold. for how long we shall have to wait and see.
Different they say, but Prawit, Anupong et al are all there on the NCPO Advisory Board, and I would surmise that relations with the Privy Council remain close.
One group that will lose out as a result of the coup is Thai academics. I cannot see their stock rising, certainly in the social and political sciences. If their views stray into their manuscripts for international journals not many editors will be sympathetic. Should Tilmann ever find himself applying for a job in a Western university,then it might be wise to leave this publication off his CV.
A huge danger is that this fiery nationalistic rhetoric spooks foreign investors, causing them to flee. Markets will tank and it’s anyone’s guess where the rupiah will end up. Lending will dry up as borrowing costs soar. It won’t be pretty that’s for sure.
This is a tin pot dictator, heavy censorship, a bad economy, soldiers everywhere watching you for signs of protest, his dumb song played over and over again, endless polls telling us we’re all HAPPY, and WE LOVE Dictator Prayuth, and we would elected Prayuth as PM anyway, so why have an election!? Not!
To the reds he’s a dictator who planned this all along with Suthep and has been destroying Thailand to justify his coup.
To the royalists, he’s a dictator who pays lip service to the King. Whose pushing his own image to the people and promoting himself alone as above the monarchy.
To the Democrats, who were worried about 2 trillion baht spending, he’s spending 3 trillion baht, even more money and yet no high speed trains? All unaccountable and unaudited.
He’s reinstated all his corrupt friends into office, and is slowly edging out competing Generals from the military. Presumably he wants to secure full control of all branches of the military now.
Normalcy? Maybe in the 1950s/1960s this was normalcy. Now each day brings some new Prayuth disaster, or level of micro-management of everyones freedom.
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Seven questions for Thailand’s military
You begin with another unacknowledged quote. What is the source? Somehow I don’t believe it can be Pasuk and Baker this time! Is it Cartalucci?
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
Hi Michelle
Although i agree with your idea of having a positive campaign, but when facing with irrational voters such as the one we have in Indonesia, sometimes the best way to gain ground is by playing the same game as Prabowo. We can see now how Indonesians are buying into these filth that the Prabowo team has put out there about Jokowi, to the point where they had to falsify a letter, a telephone transcript, and many other actions to get the public opinion on their side. In a rational state of mind, people would get discourage by these tactics but conversely they are eating it up to the point that Prabowo is gaining significant ground. I think that for the greater good of the country and to ensure that the situation described in this article doesnt happen, the Jokowi team has to get down and dirty and must stoop to their level. Perhaps once elected, through his mental revolution, the mindset and how people think in Indonesia can forever be altered for the better.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
OMG. Prabowo is President for Indonesia.
I will support
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
“Thaksin Shinawatra had created what is now called “red shirts.” He has used a Maoist model, despite himself being a Wall Street proxy, a billionaire, and a corporate fascist. To him, Maoism is a ready-made solution to marshaling the poor, brainwashing them, and getting them to throw their lives away for him, the billionaire “chairman.”
While he promotes “populist” polices, these always end up in disaster, with his political cronies looting funds, and the rural poor being left in even more dire circumstances. His “rice scheme” left over a million farmers unpaid, in debt, and many desperate enough to go as far as suicide.
How ironic would it be if the current Thai government seized all of Thaksin Shinawatra’s assets, from his multiple office towers, his TV stations, his fake university, and his mega-real estate empire, and “redistributed” it in the truest “Maoist” tradition?
I would start by preserving his businesses, but dividing them up and doled out as “bounties” for those willing to turn their back on the Shinawatra’s and their anti-Thai, anti-Monarch network. Next, whatever was left, would be put into Shinawatra’s corrupt village funds and redistributed – so instead of state money stolen from hardworking tax payers, it would be ill-gotten wealth seized from a corrupt, meddling billionaire.
It’s just a dream, but perhaps a good way to get these “reds” refocused in a new direction. With the loot gone for good, maybe all these terrorists still hiding out waiting for their cue from Dubai/Hong Kong/Cambodia, will abandon their cause realizing their payday will never come…”
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Just another mouthpiece for the lying Mafiosi in fancy dress. Churning them out seems to be the main purpose of Thai universities.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
Dear Bart,
You’ve repeated your comments to understand better the Prabowo voter in multiple posts. We’ve been listening and we recognise the need to invite pro-Prabowo posts as much as critiques, however in a polarised election, we’ve struggled to find people to write these kinds of articles. Hopefully this week with the articles we have planned we’ll get closer to answering your question as to why Prabowo has been as effective as he has been. Thanks for continuing to read New Mandala.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Let’s not forget an earlier magnum opus from Deekana – her famed “An open letter to Interpol from a Thai PhD in politics and international relations in UK”.
It makes for interesting reading – compulsive in more ways than one. Perhaps she could tell us if she has been moved to take the same approach to PDRC activities?
On her latest piece, most has already been said – so I’ll add only that I searched in vain for anything that truly amounts to being “different” about this coup. Except, perhaps, that it looks set to be even more draconian than its 2006 predecessor – but I doubt that’s what Dr Deekana and friend intend to convey in this strange apologia for it…..
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
“Prabowo’s problem is that he tries to wear all the hats at one time”.
that’s why he looks and sound like a clown
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
“why a large portion of the electorate favors ketegasan over a message of clean governance”
because most ordinary voters are uneducated and they think that he can deliver on his outrageous promises
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
Thanks Marlisa,
A translation of this most recent piece by Ed and Marcus should be up on New Mandala tomorrow. Thanks very much for the endorsement of this effort. Keep an eye out for the translation and do tell your friends.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
Dear pak Ed and pak Marcus, it would be much better if somebody can translate this piece so i (and other friends) can share this article broadly to other friends who can not understand English sufficiently. Approaching the election date, this insightful writing will be very useful to enlighten others who are still deciding for whom they will cast their vote for. Thank you.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
The reason Jokowi does not address this is because he doesn’t want to be dragged in a mud-slinging contests that Prabowo’s supporters have started from early on. He prefers not to fracture the nation with this issue since he’s a pragmatic realist. He realises that if Prabowo happened to be win (God forbid!), Indonesia cannot afford to be fractured further. Instead, he concettates on developing positive approach in his campaign, and this is one of the reasons, that albeit with all of his weaknesses, I still see him as my kind of Presiden. As he once said, diplomacy is a better solution rather than war, and I applaud him for this. We, the volunteers and the supporters, are requested to follow his example, not to use negative campaigns, slanders, misinformations and other low down campaign tactics, but stay on the right side of promotive positive points of his leadership and his programs. Whether he wins or loses, he will come up clean and honest, and that is more important than winning by cheating
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
[…] Please read this article. […]
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
The issues here are larger than one candidate. In order to understand the threats to democracy, it’s important to understand the appeal of Prabowo and why a large portion of the electorate favors ketegasan over a message of clean governance. Even if Jokowi wins, a significant number of Indonesians will have voted for Prabowo. Understanding the appeal of Prabowo is essential (New Order nostalgia, frustration with the Reformasi era, growing intolerance). This appeal is the real threat to further reforms and democracy in Indonesia, not just one candidate.
Thai coup: The debate continues
Andrew quotes Sukhumband via FEER: “The second major role [of the King]is that of the last-resort conflict manager when the stresses and strains of the system reach a point of crisis. On several occasions since 1973, the palace has intervened to restrain military groups which would have toppled the government, caused bloodshed or precipitated unpredictable crises. In turn, this role creates a balance – precarious at times to be sure – among the power groups: military, bureaucracy, political parties and business interests. ”
So, could we imagine that a younger, fitter Bhumiphol might have brokered a deal between the Yingluck government and Suthep’s PDRC? This surely should have been the proper function of a constitutional monarch. It would surely have been impossible for either party not to accept; the government always indicated its readiness to talk and Suthep could hardly have rejected the royal command. The army too would have had to fall in line. But do we have a situation where the Privy Council, in particular Prem, is actually exercising the monarchical function? He/they were presumably set on ousting the government in any event. Might HMK have acted differently or am I being unnecessarily charitable to him?
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
I can’t see this coup is any different from any other.
prayuth and his army say they are bringing happiness to the country, well I suppose the network monarchy and the whistle blowers are happy but what about he rest of the population? They are not allowed to say and no one is allowed to ask.
The yellows like to pretend it’s all about Thaksin but really it’s all about any elected government the network monarchy disapproves, hence the reforms before elections. They have got to make sure they never lose control of the government again.
The big trouble has just been put on hold. for how long we shall have to wait and see.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Different they say, but Prawit, Anupong et al are all there on the NCPO Advisory Board, and I would surmise that relations with the Privy Council remain close.
One group that will lose out as a result of the coup is Thai academics. I cannot see their stock rising, certainly in the social and political sciences. If their views stray into their manuscripts for international journals not many editors will be sympathetic. Should Tilmann ever find himself applying for a job in a Western university,then it might be wise to leave this publication off his CV.
Prabowo Subianto: vote for me, but just the once
A huge danger is that this fiery nationalistic rhetoric spooks foreign investors, causing them to flee. Markets will tank and it’s anyone’s guess where the rupiah will end up. Lending will dry up as borrowing costs soar. It won’t be pretty that’s for sure.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
It doesn’t seem to be a very lively group; just 13 members; four posts in the last year (two from Deekana herself) and none since early December.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
This is not normalcy.
This is a tin pot dictator, heavy censorship, a bad economy, soldiers everywhere watching you for signs of protest, his dumb song played over and over again, endless polls telling us we’re all HAPPY, and WE LOVE Dictator Prayuth, and we would elected Prayuth as PM anyway, so why have an election!? Not!
To the reds he’s a dictator who planned this all along with Suthep and has been destroying Thailand to justify his coup.
To the royalists, he’s a dictator who pays lip service to the King. Whose pushing his own image to the people and promoting himself alone as above the monarchy.
To the Democrats, who were worried about 2 trillion baht spending, he’s spending 3 trillion baht, even more money and yet no high speed trains? All unaccountable and unaudited.
He’s reinstated all his corrupt friends into office, and is slowly edging out competing Generals from the military. Presumably he wants to secure full control of all branches of the military now.
Normalcy? Maybe in the 1950s/1960s this was normalcy. Now each day brings some new Prayuth disaster, or level of micro-management of everyones freedom.