The English have been disrepecting their monarchy for hundreds of years – it’s what makes their society and culture so robust, open and,generally, honest. After 12 years living within it, you seem to have learnt absolutely nothing – eyes wide shut, eh?
Exactly. So why are you worried? You are the one who feel bad she say that. But if you want to know the reason she say that, you can read her words. It is clear already.
Thanks for the good info, polo (#25). But I don’t think NM blocks information.
It fits the general observation that grovelling to the right people has been the necessary duty of all who have amassed great wealth in Thailand. Thaksin grovelled too, but he didn’t keep his head low enough. His banishment is the consequence of his falling out with one of the present-day world’s biggest and most corrupt patronage systems. It has so corrupted the country that “good” in Thailand means whatever serves its interest, and “evil” means whatever endangers it.
Now that the US has downgraded Thailand on the human trafficking issue, Gen Prayuth is furious. “I’m shocked, shocked to discover human trafficking going on in Thailand!”
I think it’s important to state at the outset Bill Heinecke is a highly intelligent man and far from being naive.But he plays by the rules of the Sino Thai business elite.His early investment partner was the King’s Private Investment Office (in distinction to the Crown Property Bureau).His Board of Directors includes Patee Sarasin (son of Privy Councillor Arsa Sarasin) and various other representatives of the establishment including Khunying Jada Wattanasiratham).His Bangkok Post piece was a confused and contradictory mess but it’s a reality that this remarkable man is totally identified with the discredited old order.He is what he is.The slight puzzle is that he seems not to understand the commercial importance of hedging his bets, because the ancien regime with which he is inextricably linked has a finite life.
Sadly what you stated is, as usual, right. Perhaps Burmese as a society after half a century of immense deprivation and always having to look up- always up- to immoral low life military, their economic arm- usually referred to as cronies- and any foreigners, black or white- but especially white- has now lost all their ability to assess and think for themselves.
You yourself would, I am sure agree, that such primitive savage acts as sheer bullying and deprivation to most miserable sufferings and deaths to hundreds of thousands would be out of character of majority population of inhabitants of the country Burma.
No doubt military has calculated inculcation into the populace – via Facebook pages, the “free” media which are mostly run by them, and pukka NAZI minded “opposition” “leaders” – of irrational fear of “green peril” all across Asia and having “ignition groups” to drive up large scale riots and destructions – usually resulting in those cronies OWNING the prime estate thus vacated.
Yet it is undeniable of your statement of Burmese – Asians- breeding morbidly obsessed with Whiteness of the skin patheticity. Any one running short of money needs to make up some gluey stuff and sell it to just about any Asian telling it will make their skin “fair” and their “wrong” color blondish and you will become millionaire overnight. Ask L’Oreal. Beauty is no amount of education or social status is exempt.
Thus it is simpler task to demonise dark skinners. Then again Chinese do have almost monopoly in trade and economy in Burma. Like people of Mandalay could not live without their lobans anymore just like in Pharkant. And people of Latpadaung will come to realise that way soon. In Loban we worship.
On the other hand, Ms Hudson- Rodd has been steadfast in the suffering of the down- trodden. But this time she does belong to the very same camp of ” western” – Rights workers, journalists and academics- who sing exact line as U Tun Khin or ever eloquent Sadiqui. These people need citizenship. That warped logic defeats itself as it is no secret that the very citizen, Theravada Buddhist lots in mainland Burma are only marginally better treated than the Rohingya themselves until this killing and destruction orgy started by killing ten Muslim travellers by an anonymous well organised well seasoned murderers two years ago. It doesn’t help that a lot of Rohingya suffering reports are mostly one-sided losing the edge. It is hard to know these advocates are after humane treatment of the human, which is a universal responsibility, or simple supporters of ” Command for Citizenship” movement by virtue of history, etc., etc.
Meanwhile people on the ground, just like their counterparts in their torturers camp, are thoroughly brainwashed not to ask simply for food or water but for this Citizenship thing fully aware that the now publicly endorsed military’s stance is not going to change.
Having said all that current boiling up of this Rohingya sufferings which has been going on for more than two years is likely to be initial part of an attempt to discredit the the very “reformist Thamada Gyi” government at least in the international public!s eye building up to get the people of Burma back on the street again – perhaps with the help of well used Gene Sharp’s ways which has got monks walking and dying all those 7 years ago- so that they can get Aung San Suu Kyi as president.
It seems Aung San Suu Kyi as President is main requirement for her to rectify and sing various promulgations and treaties to give absolute guarantee to the poor little Global Cabal that actually rule the world that their generous ” investment” in the country would truly return their hope for a million fold profit by virtue of land, trade routes, forest, minerals, gems, mechanised agriculture and consumer product dumping as well as cheap manual labour out of the farmers after they are evicted from their ancestral lands they have been working for millennium to feed the country and beyond including their now torturers. They will lose their land via loans, confiscations and new laws for national needs.
But they need not worry. Already ILO and large numbers of do- gooders are there to fight for their rights in Hard Labor Concentration camps yet to be built ironically not that different from the ones Rohingyas are condemned to this very day.
(Bakrie for instance, boasted that Prabowo had offered him the previously unheard of post of “chief minister.”)
Perhaps ‘unheard of’ by Ed Aspinall. Soekarno had ‘menteri utama’ (chief minister) before, where presumably Prabowo got his inspiration for the post. (source: Revolusi Belum Selesai, 2014)
Datuk Seri Musa Aman is the Ketua Menteri
(Menteri Besar) of Sabah; Menteri Besar,
technically used for States that have had hereditary rulers, but the translation as
Chief Minister is effectively the same. Sabah is in Malaysia, not Malaya. “Like you do in Malaya” has no meaning, as there is no “Malaya” today, and therefore your comment is anachronistic. Your evident anti-Peninsula bias is your own, but if you had actually read the commentary, which you didn’t only looking for faults to criticise, you would have noted it is critical of UMNO, Putrajaya and its leadership in Sabah. You were too busy with your worked-up anger, to actually read the commentary.
Ketua Menteri and Menteri Sabar are the same.
Innumerable references to Datuk Seri Musa Aman use BOTH/EITHER Ketua Menteri or Menteri Besar. Menteri Besar refers to States in Malaysia that have hereditary rulers.
It is you who is obviously not even a Malaysian. There is no nation called “Malaya” today. It is called MALAYSIA, and Sabah is a part of Malaysia, not MALAYA. Your other comments are pointless.
It’s surprising that no one has pointed out that Mr Heinecke’s flagship hotels are on crown property and that the royal family and the king himself are significant shareholders in his Minor Group and have been for decades. If you have blocked this info, Andrew, you are being excessively cautious: there can be no lese majeste offense for publishing what is openly stated in Minor Co, SET and CPB records.
“The unraveling and dismantling of Thaksin’s secret PR and media apparatus. Run by a handful of people, it controlled the massive combined advertising and PR and CSR budgets of all state enterprises, government organizations, ministries, provincial governments, independent organizations, etc. And it held influence on the advertising and PR budgets of private and public corporations that enjoyed business benefits from the government.
Any newspaper, magazine, radio station, TV channel, etc. that did not publish or broadcast Thaksin’s storyline, had its advertising revenues cut. Those who toed the line received advertising income. Even CNN, BBC, Wall Street Journal, NYTimes received substantial revenues from programs like “Amazing Thailand”, “Travel Thailand”, TG and PTT ads, etc. so that they would speak the Thaksin line.
Community radios, blaring daily Thaksin propaganda, also received some of trail ads and from consumer goods products wishing to sell in the villages. I also used to wonder why some red TV stations always get advertising about “Don’t Drink while Driving”, “Smoking is Bad for your Health”, etc.
I find it funny to see foreign petroleum companies who don’t even have a gas station in Thailand, take expensive four page full color ads in newspapers whenever articles are published cheering Thaksin’s side.”
“To control the media, just control their revenue.”
Makes you wonder about NMites’ poster child AMM and Robert Amsterdam as well as BBC’s J. Head. Well actuallymakes me wonder, NMites don’t wonder at all you guys are a cheering section on your own.
Go democracy!! Anything is possible with elections!! Let’s have graft and corruption the legitimate way – through elections and western democracy!!
Take some time from finding fault concerning the legitimate coup to wash out finally the stench with a reasonable read. Democracy coming from elections legalizes graft and corruption is what NMites think is what democracy is.
Reading through these comments it seems to me the pro-democracy group has won the debate.
Just as the pro-democracy group represents the greater majority of the population.
Never the less the yellows have snatched victory…they have 112 and the army on their side and its very difficult to argue with that.
I didn’t read Ed’s article as suggesting that Prabowo would bring a return to the Suharto era, but something more like a Putin scenario – a “strong man” populist skirting around the edges of legality and constitutionality and suppressing opposition without necessarily resorting to open dictatorship. Another parallel (or warning) might be Lee Kuan Yew, who didn’t directly jail his opponents, he just bankrupted them.
In Simon’s words, “If the Prabowo-Hatta pair cannot garner parliamentary support to roll back the post-Soeharto constitutional reforms, then they will need to resort to unconstitutional or otherwise illegal means to meet their stated ‘mission’.” This could be seen as a positive statement: ie there are many constitutional and political barriers to a return to authoritarianism.
Among the 200,000 Khmer immigrants working in Thailand, approximately 10,000 are legal ones. If this should happen in Australia, Scott Morrison would have a hot-ass.
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Thorns of the Thai rose
The English have been disrepecting their monarchy for hundreds of years – it’s what makes their society and culture so robust, open and,generally, honest. After 12 years living within it, you seem to have learnt absolutely nothing – eyes wide shut, eh?
Thorns of the Thai rose
Exactly. So why are you worried? You are the one who feel bad she say that. But if you want to know the reason she say that, you can read her words. It is clear already.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Thanks for the good info, polo (#25). But I don’t think NM blocks information.
It fits the general observation that grovelling to the right people has been the necessary duty of all who have amassed great wealth in Thailand. Thaksin grovelled too, but he didn’t keep his head low enough. His banishment is the consequence of his falling out with one of the present-day world’s biggest and most corrupt patronage systems. It has so corrupted the country that “good” in Thailand means whatever serves its interest, and “evil” means whatever endangers it.
Rohingya: denied the right to be human
Now that the US has downgraded Thailand on the human trafficking issue, Gen Prayuth is furious. “I’m shocked, shocked to discover human trafficking going on in Thailand!”
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
I think it’s important to state at the outset Bill Heinecke is a highly intelligent man and far from being naive.But he plays by the rules of the Sino Thai business elite.His early investment partner was the King’s Private Investment Office (in distinction to the Crown Property Bureau).His Board of Directors includes Patee Sarasin (son of Privy Councillor Arsa Sarasin) and various other representatives of the establishment including Khunying Jada Wattanasiratham).His Bangkok Post piece was a confused and contradictory mess but it’s a reality that this remarkable man is totally identified with the discredited old order.He is what he is.The slight puzzle is that he seems not to understand the commercial importance of hedging his bets, because the ancien regime with which he is inextricably linked has a finite life.
A better bureaucracy?
Bring the Dutch back to Indonesia.
Rohingya: denied the right to be human
Toch,
Sadly what you stated is, as usual, right. Perhaps Burmese as a society after half a century of immense deprivation and always having to look up- always up- to immoral low life military, their economic arm- usually referred to as cronies- and any foreigners, black or white- but especially white- has now lost all their ability to assess and think for themselves.
You yourself would, I am sure agree, that such primitive savage acts as sheer bullying and deprivation to most miserable sufferings and deaths to hundreds of thousands would be out of character of majority population of inhabitants of the country Burma.
No doubt military has calculated inculcation into the populace – via Facebook pages, the “free” media which are mostly run by them, and pukka NAZI minded “opposition” “leaders” – of irrational fear of “green peril” all across Asia and having “ignition groups” to drive up large scale riots and destructions – usually resulting in those cronies OWNING the prime estate thus vacated.
Yet it is undeniable of your statement of Burmese – Asians- breeding morbidly obsessed with Whiteness of the skin patheticity. Any one running short of money needs to make up some gluey stuff and sell it to just about any Asian telling it will make their skin “fair” and their “wrong” color blondish and you will become millionaire overnight. Ask L’Oreal. Beauty is no amount of education or social status is exempt.
Thus it is simpler task to demonise dark skinners. Then again Chinese do have almost monopoly in trade and economy in Burma. Like people of Mandalay could not live without their lobans anymore just like in Pharkant. And people of Latpadaung will come to realise that way soon. In Loban we worship.
On the other hand, Ms Hudson- Rodd has been steadfast in the suffering of the down- trodden. But this time she does belong to the very same camp of ” western” – Rights workers, journalists and academics- who sing exact line as U Tun Khin or ever eloquent Sadiqui. These people need citizenship. That warped logic defeats itself as it is no secret that the very citizen, Theravada Buddhist lots in mainland Burma are only marginally better treated than the Rohingya themselves until this killing and destruction orgy started by killing ten Muslim travellers by an anonymous well organised well seasoned murderers two years ago. It doesn’t help that a lot of Rohingya suffering reports are mostly one-sided losing the edge. It is hard to know these advocates are after humane treatment of the human, which is a universal responsibility, or simple supporters of ” Command for Citizenship” movement by virtue of history, etc., etc.
Meanwhile people on the ground, just like their counterparts in their torturers camp, are thoroughly brainwashed not to ask simply for food or water but for this Citizenship thing fully aware that the now publicly endorsed military’s stance is not going to change.
Having said all that current boiling up of this Rohingya sufferings which has been going on for more than two years is likely to be initial part of an attempt to discredit the the very “reformist Thamada Gyi” government at least in the international public!s eye building up to get the people of Burma back on the street again – perhaps with the help of well used Gene Sharp’s ways which has got monks walking and dying all those 7 years ago- so that they can get Aung San Suu Kyi as president.
It seems Aung San Suu Kyi as President is main requirement for her to rectify and sing various promulgations and treaties to give absolute guarantee to the poor little Global Cabal that actually rule the world that their generous ” investment” in the country would truly return their hope for a million fold profit by virtue of land, trade routes, forest, minerals, gems, mechanised agriculture and consumer product dumping as well as cheap manual labour out of the farmers after they are evicted from their ancestral lands they have been working for millennium to feed the country and beyond including their now torturers. They will lose their land via loans, confiscations and new laws for national needs.
But they need not worry. Already ILO and large numbers of do- gooders are there to fight for their rights in Hard Labor Concentration camps yet to be built ironically not that different from the ones Rohingyas are condemned to this very day.
Two rounds or one?
[…] Read original article here: http://www.newmandala.org/2014/06/20/two-rounds-or-one/ […]
Indonesia’s democracy is in danger
(Bakrie for instance, boasted that Prabowo had offered him the previously unheard of post of “chief minister.”)
Perhaps ‘unheard of’ by Ed Aspinall. Soekarno had ‘menteri utama’ (chief minister) before, where presumably Prabowo got his inspiration for the post. (source: Revolusi Belum Selesai, 2014)
Thorns of the Thai rose
The same there is no legal requirement for the king to get out of thailand as well so should thai rose she say that????
Sabah – UMNO’s fixed deposit?
CORRECTION:
Datuk Seri Musa Aman is the Ketua Menteri
(Menteri Besar) of Sabah; Menteri Besar,
technically used for States that have had hereditary rulers, but the translation as
Chief Minister is effectively the same. Sabah is in Malaysia, not Malaya. “Like you do in Malaya” has no meaning, as there is no “Malaya” today, and therefore your comment is anachronistic. Your evident anti-Peninsula bias is your own, but if you had actually read the commentary, which you didn’t only looking for faults to criticise, you would have noted it is critical of UMNO, Putrajaya and its leadership in Sabah. You were too busy with your worked-up anger, to actually read the commentary.
Sabah – UMNO’s fixed deposit?
Ketua Menteri and Menteri Sabar are the same.
Innumerable references to Datuk Seri Musa Aman use BOTH/EITHER Ketua Menteri or Menteri Besar. Menteri Besar refers to States in Malaysia that have hereditary rulers.
It is you who is obviously not even a Malaysian. There is no nation called “Malaya” today. It is called MALAYSIA, and Sabah is a part of Malaysia, not MALAYA. Your other comments are pointless.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
It’s surprising that no one has pointed out that Mr Heinecke’s flagship hotels are on crown property and that the royal family and the king himself are significant shareholders in his Minor Group and have been for decades. If you have blocked this info, Andrew, you are being excessively cautious: there can be no lese majeste offense for publishing what is openly stated in Minor Co, SET and CPB records.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
From a friend:
“The unraveling and dismantling of Thaksin’s secret PR and media apparatus. Run by a handful of people, it controlled the massive combined advertising and PR and CSR budgets of all state enterprises, government organizations, ministries, provincial governments, independent organizations, etc. And it held influence on the advertising and PR budgets of private and public corporations that enjoyed business benefits from the government.
Any newspaper, magazine, radio station, TV channel, etc. that did not publish or broadcast Thaksin’s storyline, had its advertising revenues cut. Those who toed the line received advertising income. Even CNN, BBC, Wall Street Journal, NYTimes received substantial revenues from programs like “Amazing Thailand”, “Travel Thailand”, TG and PTT ads, etc. so that they would speak the Thaksin line.
Community radios, blaring daily Thaksin propaganda, also received some of trail ads and from consumer goods products wishing to sell in the villages. I also used to wonder why some red TV stations always get advertising about “Don’t Drink while Driving”, “Smoking is Bad for your Health”, etc.
I find it funny to see foreign petroleum companies who don’t even have a gas station in Thailand, take expensive four page full color ads in newspapers whenever articles are published cheering Thaksin’s side.”
“To control the media, just control their revenue.”
Makes you wonder about NMites’ poster child AMM and Robert Amsterdam as well as BBC’s J. Head. Well actuallymakes me wonder, NMites don’t wonder at all you guys are a cheering section on your own.
Go democracy!! Anything is possible with elections!! Let’s have graft and corruption the legitimate way – through elections and western democracy!!
Way to go NMites!!
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Take some time from finding fault concerning the legitimate coup to wash out finally the stench with a reasonable read. Democracy coming from elections legalizes graft and corruption is what NMites think is what democracy is.
The author cites Charles Keyes as his principle primary source, which alone gives his comments a lot of credibility:
http://inside.org.au/the-seismic-shifts-behind-the-coup-in-thailand/
Thorns of the Thai rose
Reading through these comments it seems to me the pro-democracy group has won the debate.
Just as the pro-democracy group represents the greater majority of the population.
Never the less the yellows have snatched victory…they have 112 and the army on their side and its very difficult to argue with that.
Mr. Heinecke cannot have his coup and eat it too
Excellent choice. Do some diving and think of Sea Hunt, that old US TV show.
Returning to the 1945 Constitution: what does it mean?
I didn’t read Ed’s article as suggesting that Prabowo would bring a return to the Suharto era, but something more like a Putin scenario – a “strong man” populist skirting around the edges of legality and constitutionality and suppressing opposition without necessarily resorting to open dictatorship. Another parallel (or warning) might be Lee Kuan Yew, who didn’t directly jail his opponents, he just bankrupted them.
Returning to the 1945 Constitution: what does it mean?
In Simon’s words, “If the Prabowo-Hatta pair cannot garner parliamentary support to roll back the post-Soeharto constitutional reforms, then they will need to resort to unconstitutional or otherwise illegal means to meet their stated ‘mission’.” This could be seen as a positive statement: ie there are many constitutional and political barriers to a return to authoritarianism.
Ominous signs for migrant workers in Thailand
Among the 200,000 Khmer immigrants working in Thailand, approximately 10,000 are legal ones. If this should happen in Australia, Scott Morrison would have a hot-ass.