Thank you for your excellent article, your contribution for Thailand’s democracy, and acting as a spokesperson for Thais who support democratic ways but are compelled to shut ones mouths
The army has been keen to present itself as an honest, neutral broker between two extreme factions. It appears you’ve bought that story, but judging from the sense of satisfaction and smugness emanating from those with yellow sympathies since the declaration of martial law and the coup, even the army’s allies don’t really believe it. Some of them have been detained, for show, but they don’t need to be told to stop: they’ve already won.
From where did Marc Saxer get his conclusion that the Thai middle class/intelligentsia do not concur or endorse the Thai military’s focus on the violent and lethally armed Reds?
Where were you Marc Saxer in May 2010 when the Reds/Black Shirts rampaged in Bangkok with bombings, shootings and arson?
” … the equation of democracy with corruption leads the middle class to embrace authoritarian rule.”
Marc Saxer presumes too much. The primary reason for Thailand’s middle class boiling rage was and is: Thaksin/Yingluck regime’s runaway and unchecked in-your-face unconscionable corruption. Plus Thaksin/Yingluck use of the the violent/deadly Red/Black shirts to cow and threaten the middle class and Bangkok’s intelligentsia who are outraged thereof.
Marc Saxer merely regurgitates the Thaksin motto that ‘corruption is cool in Thaksin’s brand of democracy’.
Another excellent article from this writer, and shall we say, a “courageous” one, for daring to mention the legacy of that holy cow institution of the monarchy. The transition from feudalism to modernism is a painful evolutionary process that takes generations to occur in the absence of revolution.
Thank you for this excellent article. It fits beautifully with what I have managed to piece together myself. So happy to know that there are also Thais with a conscience and political vision that use the correct expressions applicable to the present social-political situation, such as social justice and fairness. Without realizing these ideals the country is doomed in the long run.
Dear Matt, I don’t want to get into a personal argument that detracts from sensible political debate, but your claim that I was “booted out of Reuters” is both incorrect and libellous. Please retract it immediately.
Secondly, as I have repeatedly made clear, I have no connection with New Mandala. I am merely somebody who comments here from time to time, just like you.
It should be clear now that the hope was for Suthep to succeed. That failed, and we are now seeing plan B, which is instituting every single goal Suthep was hoping for. Unfortunately for them things are unraveling even faster than expected, and the economy is likely to go into freefall soon and the country will be a pariah like Burma once was. Given the history of coups in Thailand, how could anyone have expected any other result?
“I have read some of your execrable self-published books on Thailand, Matt. I wouldn’t even pass them at a kindergarten level. ”
Says a lot about Macgregor’s character. If you can’t debate fairly, flame your “opponent”
He does not understand Thailand, doesn’t even live here. A hated figure at Reuters and in the academic world (NM excepted but I would not consider them academics, too bigoted and against any form of debate that does not fit their very odd agenda.
The military junta and its conservative middle class supporters have different objectives. The military focuses on the “red threat”, the middle class on the “red mess/ corruption”.
Given the lack of “endorsement” of the coup, middle class support is the only (feeble) legtimacy base the junta has, thus its fate will depend on it.
The military’s dilemma is that these objectives are inherently contradictory. With every crackdown, and every day of political rights limitations, middle class support will vain, because they did not enlist to fight the “red threat”, but want “a clean house”.
By its nature, the military has no instrument in its toolbox to deliver this. The underlying drivers of the conflict, social and cultural transformation, cannot be tackled by coercion.
Typical of Marshall and his gang at New Mandela. They shoot messengers and down vote but never consider the facts or want to engage in sensible debate. If you don’t agree with them, they then just flame.
Whatever he says Marshall was booted out of Reuters and bears that as a grudge. He likes to claim he is banned in Thailand. He is not. many would like to get him in a Thai or other court, including some That national writers. He’s a born coward who dislikes free speech if it conflicts with his or New Mandela views. Childish. And censorship within NM.
I am not talking about the junta decalration, but of the conservative middle class discourse supporting the coup. These are different discourses. The military focuses on the “red threat”, the middle class on “red mess/ corruption”.
Given the lack of “endorsement”, the middle class support is the only (feeble) legtimacy base the junta has-, this the fate of the coup will depend of keeping it. With every crackdown, and prolonged restraint of political rights, middle class support will vain, because they did not enlist to fight the “red threat”, but want “a clean house”. Basically, the military cannot deliver this, because it has no instruments to tackle the underlying social and cultural transformation.
The emerging coup justification discourse evolves around topoi of the “clean slate”. For a “fresh start”, Thailand needed to “bring its house in order” by “cleaning out the mess of corruption”. As I have shown in my latest study, the equation of democracy with corruption leads the middle class to embrace authoritarian rule. When “all politicians are corrupt”, then “intelligent military men” must be the answer.
This discourse cannot be countered by empirical facts of junta corruption, because it is a reflection of the inherent conservative inability to perceive the lethal flaws of a dying system: when the system cannot be wrong, then it must be “bad people” who corrupt it. The easy fix: exchange the “bad people” with “good people”, and everything will be back to “normal”.
There is no analysis here, just a bunch of loud declarations and exhortations unsupported by fact or citation and completely unbalanced. He really has his facts wrong too: the limited crop insurance and price supports under Abhisit are not the same as buying every grain of rice way above market prices with zero transparency in a gamble that prices will rise.
It is easy enough to check the voting tallies. Bangkok Pundit has posted the maps and the area elected Puea Thai.
As for RU being “highly respected” where does it rank in QS rankings? Answer: it doesn’t even justify a ranking. I teach at Mahidol University, which does, and my colleague’s girlfriend got her BA in English there and couldn’t get accepted into the Masters Degree program here, despite having the highest marks on the entrance exam, so I would say the yellow shirt hi-sos don’t consider an open university worthy enough.
The PDRC leader Suthep, Big Boss of Surat Thani province in southern Thailand, is surely an expert on corruption and vote-buying, clearly a man of not only “good” but excellent morals…knows every angle I hear….but when he uses the word “reform”, I think he really means “regression”………”appointed” MP’s and a guaranteed quota for ThaiDem MP’s despite their lack of votes….an end to any plurality or majority electing a Prime Minister…banning of social development programs (aka “Populist” programs such as low cost health care, infrastructure projects, university schoalrships) that benefit the NE and North of Thailand where about half the Thai population lives…etc.
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A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand
@ Vichai: “very peaceful”? Are you kidding?
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Thank you for your excellent article, your contribution for Thailand’s democracy, and acting as a spokesperson for Thais who support democratic ways but are compelled to shut ones mouths
Condemnation of the coup
The army has been keen to present itself as an honest, neutral broker between two extreme factions. It appears you’ve bought that story, but judging from the sense of satisfaction and smugness emanating from those with yellow sympathies since the declaration of martial law and the coup, even the army’s allies don’t really believe it. Some of them have been detained, for show, but they don’t need to be told to stop: they’ve already won.
A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand
From where did Marc Saxer get his conclusion that the Thai middle class/intelligentsia do not concur or endorse the Thai military’s focus on the violent and lethally armed Reds?
Where were you Marc Saxer in May 2010 when the Reds/Black Shirts rampaged in Bangkok with bombings, shootings and arson?
Thailand, what next?
” … the equation of democracy with corruption leads the middle class to embrace authoritarian rule.”
Marc Saxer presumes too much. The primary reason for Thailand’s middle class boiling rage was and is: Thaksin/Yingluck regime’s runaway and unchecked in-your-face unconscionable corruption. Plus Thaksin/Yingluck use of the the violent/deadly Red/Black shirts to cow and threaten the middle class and Bangkok’s intelligentsia who are outraged thereof.
Marc Saxer merely regurgitates the Thaksin motto that ‘corruption is cool in Thaksin’s brand of democracy’.
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Another excellent article from this writer, and shall we say, a “courageous” one, for daring to mention the legacy of that holy cow institution of the monarchy. The transition from feudalism to modernism is a painful evolutionary process that takes generations to occur in the absence of revolution.
Thailand, what next?
Thank you for this excellent article. It fits beautifully with what I have managed to piece together myself. So happy to know that there are also Thais with a conscience and political vision that use the correct expressions applicable to the present social-political situation, such as social justice and fairness. Without realizing these ideals the country is doomed in the long run.
Condemnation of the coup
Dear Matt, I don’t want to get into a personal argument that detracts from sensible political debate, but your claim that I was “booted out of Reuters” is both incorrect and libellous. Please retract it immediately.
Secondly, as I have repeatedly made clear, I have no connection with New Mandala. I am merely somebody who comments here from time to time, just like you.
Thailand’s invitation to violence
Excellent article. Nails it.
Thailand, what next?
It should be clear now that the hope was for Suthep to succeed. That failed, and we are now seeing plan B, which is instituting every single goal Suthep was hoping for. Unfortunately for them things are unraveling even faster than expected, and the economy is likely to go into freefall soon and the country will be a pariah like Burma once was. Given the history of coups in Thailand, how could anyone have expected any other result?
Condemnation of the coup
“I have read some of your execrable self-published books on Thailand, Matt. I wouldn’t even pass them at a kindergarten level. ”
Says a lot about Macgregor’s character. If you can’t debate fairly, flame your “opponent”
He does not understand Thailand, doesn’t even live here. A hated figure at Reuters and in the academic world (NM excepted but I would not consider them academics, too bigoted and against any form of debate that does not fit their very odd agenda.
A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand
Sorted my thoughts to be more clear:
The military junta and its conservative middle class supporters have different objectives. The military focuses on the “red threat”, the middle class on the “red mess/ corruption”.
Given the lack of “endorsement” of the coup, middle class support is the only (feeble) legtimacy base the junta has, thus its fate will depend on it.
The military’s dilemma is that these objectives are inherently contradictory. With every crackdown, and every day of political rights limitations, middle class support will vain, because they did not enlist to fight the “red threat”, but want “a clean house”.
By its nature, the military has no instrument in its toolbox to deliver this. The underlying drivers of the conflict, social and cultural transformation, cannot be tackled by coercion.
Condemnation of the coup
Typical of Marshall and his gang at New Mandela. They shoot messengers and down vote but never consider the facts or want to engage in sensible debate. If you don’t agree with them, they then just flame.
Whatever he says Marshall was booted out of Reuters and bears that as a grudge. He likes to claim he is banned in Thailand. He is not. many would like to get him in a Thai or other court, including some That national writers. He’s a born coward who dislikes free speech if it conflicts with his or New Mandela views. Childish. And censorship within NM.
A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand
I am not talking about the junta decalration, but of the conservative middle class discourse supporting the coup. These are different discourses. The military focuses on the “red threat”, the middle class on “red mess/ corruption”.
Given the lack of “endorsement”, the middle class support is the only (feeble) legtimacy base the junta has-, this the fate of the coup will depend of keeping it. With every crackdown, and prolonged restraint of political rights, middle class support will vain, because they did not enlist to fight the “red threat”, but want “a clean house”. Basically, the military cannot deliver this, because it has no instruments to tackle the underlying social and cultural transformation.
Thailand, what next?
The emerging coup justification discourse evolves around topoi of the “clean slate”. For a “fresh start”, Thailand needed to “bring its house in order” by “cleaning out the mess of corruption”. As I have shown in my latest study, the equation of democracy with corruption leads the middle class to embrace authoritarian rule. When “all politicians are corrupt”, then “intelligent military men” must be the answer.
This discourse cannot be countered by empirical facts of junta corruption, because it is a reflection of the inherent conservative inability to perceive the lethal flaws of a dying system: when the system cannot be wrong, then it must be “bad people” who corrupt it. The easy fix: exchange the “bad people” with “good people”, and everything will be back to “normal”.
(“…” indicating narratives)
Thailand, what next?
There is no analysis here, just a bunch of loud declarations and exhortations unsupported by fact or citation and completely unbalanced. He really has his facts wrong too: the limited crop insurance and price supports under Abhisit are not the same as buying every grain of rice way above market prices with zero transparency in a gamble that prices will rise.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
It is easy enough to check the voting tallies. Bangkok Pundit has posted the maps and the area elected Puea Thai.
As for RU being “highly respected” where does it rank in QS rankings? Answer: it doesn’t even justify a ranking. I teach at Mahidol University, which does, and my colleague’s girlfriend got her BA in English there and couldn’t get accepted into the Masters Degree program here, despite having the highest marks on the entrance exam, so I would say the yellow shirt hi-sos don’t consider an open university worthy enough.
Thailand, what next?
The PDRC leader Suthep, Big Boss of Surat Thani province in southern Thailand, is surely an expert on corruption and vote-buying, clearly a man of not only “good” but excellent morals…knows every angle I hear….but when he uses the word “reform”, I think he really means “regression”………”appointed” MP’s and a guaranteed quota for ThaiDem MP’s despite their lack of votes….an end to any plurality or majority electing a Prime Minister…banning of social development programs (aka “Populist” programs such as low cost health care, infrastructure projects, university schoalrships) that benefit the NE and North of Thailand where about half the Thai population lives…etc.
ANU No Coup
р╕Бр╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕▒р╕Юр╕Чр╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Цр╕╕р╕Зр╣Ар╕лр╕Щр╕╖р╕нр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕Щр╣Др╕Чр╕в
It is the army who have just put a bag over the heads of the Thai people.
Thailand’s invitation to violence
“It is hard to see how Thailand can make its way out of this political mess …”
Amen to that Andrew Walker.