A discussion only makes sense if:
1. those involved have a certain knowledge of what they are talking about,
2. are able to comprehend arguments.
Both is not the case here. Those at UiTM have no idea about Christian-theology, as well as Islamic theology. Why discuss with them?
To answer your query hrk there wouldn’t be an election until such time as Suthep and his backers have changed the electoral rules to effectively disenfranchise the majority.
As for the legal system in thailand it is hopelessly politicised and selective justice is served up on a daily basis.in short it will probably take a revolution to sort thailand out once and for all
Yes you may well have a point Chris. There could be an internal revolt in the army. I wouldn’t want to be Suthep or the members of the privy council if that were to happen.
I really appreciate this article as it is written by someone that I know has no interest in practical politics.
This article is an act of #MelawanLupa, to remind us, the people of Indonesia, especially the young people who was not experience the 1998 tragedy and will be the deciding part in presidential election this year.
I support the suggestion to translate this article to help Indonesian people in making decision of their future leader.
Does anyone know the name and location of the stone inscription that Eisel referenced under Section 2 last paragraph? Thanks
“there is a badly damaged inscription of the same period with the word Suvaс╣Зс╣Зabh┼лmi on it (and almost none of the other words are legible on that stone).”
Sorry if I’m posting too much, but I found the following quote in a Bangkok Post opinion piece called “A Time for Restraint”.
“Immediately after the Constitutional Court’s ruling, the house of a court judge, Siam Commercial Bank’s headquarters, and Chulabhorn Hospital were attacked with grenades on the same night.”
Gee…I wonder who owns 25% of SCB? Wait, wait, wait…don’t tell me.
Oh yes! Now I remember! It’s
ATTENTION! The above comment has been redacted and censored by the Organisation for the Removal of Trash of the Land. The perpetrator will be apprehended shortly and incarcerated with all other criminals, such as murderers. Well…actually…murderers aren’t arrested in Thailand. But, we’re working on it. LONG LIVE THE TROUGH!
Thailand should join the Constitution of the Month club. It would be cheaper that way. You buy 10 Constitutions for 30 baht, and then all you have to do is buy one Constitution every month for one year at full price. Sounds like a good deal to me!
(Includes free shipping & handling. All credit cards accepted. Offer only good until civil war starts.)
And for the rest of our contestants, we have consolation prizes of “get out of jail free” cards good for any offense in Maithailand. (Except lese majeste, of course.)
While Peter Masry was quite correct in describing the general unwillingness of average Indonesians to stray from the prescribed version of their history, I am quite puzzled by the noted two dates [ 1963 and 1948 that he had referenced in his comment. Were these significant dates in Indonesian history?. I assume that he probably had intended to use 1945 and 1965 as those dates. Further, the shaping of Indonesian history and its destiny that led to its independence was quite different than those in other parts of Asia, but does that make it less desirable, as inferred in his comment?. I truly believe that whatever Mr Masry had in mind in offering his comment would benefit greatly by learning to understand the different dynamics that shaped the history of Indonesia.
Census is first of all the total population of a country.
‘Taxation with Representation’ is the primary reason census is taken. Myanmar has no such system due to continual turmoil since 1948. Anything else down the line is rather misplaced fear.
Ethnic and religion designation are important only there is a clear religious or ethnic preference declared by the existing government.
As of now there is no preference of such even though there is a inherently strong historically justifiable preference to Buddhism.
This is the cultural heritage that all the west must respect, no matter what the vantage point they use to criticize anything ongoing in Myanmar.
As for the kala, Tayoke or other designates as citizen or Foreign resident, existed even during Ne Win’s BSPP era, need to be updated fairly to include everyone within the contiguous border of Myanmar.
As in Thailand,Malaysia,India and China Citizenship become of secondary important once economic certainty among a country is ascertained/not interfered by useless careless others.
The Dutch only came to trade? Oh Please.
What about the social caste system which put the peasant natives at the lowest of the low?
The forced labors and mass massacres?
We’re on the good terms with the Japanese because they were the lesser evil compared to the Dutch Empire. In a most dire situation, ones will perceive another opposing demon as a hero, that’s what happened in Indonesia.
FYI today generations aren’t really care about Pieterzoon Coen, the title already goes to Daendels and Westerling for at least a few decades. So please stop to whitewash your ancestors’ sins by saying they only came here to trade. Both parties should face their own inner demons. Including us young Indonesians, for we must face our darker pasts and carry the guilt of our brutal government and all they did to our own people and the neighbors. While Soeharto’s gone, his tremendous sins remain. It’s up to us to end this shame. To face the truth, atone, and reconcile.
It’s sad that the victims became the monster themselves. It’s the young Indonesians duty to prevent it from ever happening again.
And please, please pardon my manners. Indonesian youths cannot into decorum and proper formality it seems. 😉
Whether it was/is a coup depends on what follows.
Several of those (like myself) who somehow appreciated the coup in 2006 expected a move towards democracy. In our (excuse me for the plural, but there were quite a few [may be slightly stupid persons] who held a similar believe) understanding, Thaksin had dismantled the path towards enhanced democracy as stipulated in the 1997 constitution, and the hope was that these mistakes would be solved. Soon we learned how foolish the idea was that the military will bring about democratization by a coup. By the way, as a kind of footnotes, it reminds me of Pridi. He facilitated a come back of the royalists against Phibul in the earlay 1940th (who was close to transform Thailand into a republic). The result was that it was these royalists, who pushed him out. They did wait though until he took the hot potatoes out of the fire during the negotiations with the allies. My conclusion is that as little as one can trust the military as agent for democracy one can trust royalists.
It will certainly not be a coup if the courts and the many commission like NACC, EC etc. will facilitate democratization. As indicators I have four variables:
1. When will there by new elections and how are they organized?
2. How will the prime minister and government be selected?
3. Will those de-stabilizing the state (usually understood as “high treason”) will be punished by the law (or do we have a few legal systems in Thailand)?
4. Will there be changes of the constitution abolishing all the non-democratic elements?
Following current news, it seems that these questions are answered already.
This article definitely can give new understanding for those who are apathy about Indonesia’s human rights history. But I think you should ask to former State Intelligence agents, defence strategist, and even retired armed services officers to find better (and even neutral) references towards this issue. Because you can’t make an assumption just from human rights activists’ point of view. Particularly former State Intelligence agents, they must know better. If you are lucky enough, you even can get sensitive information from them. But one thing I regret from this article, you indirectly provoke readers by quoting Ryamizard’s “ancient” statements (2003, 10 years ago). While in analyzing Prabowo’s human rights record, you put his denial statement which you quoted from recent interview. The comparison becomes unequal. If someone interviewed Prabowo when he was still in duty/active at army, would the answer be the same?
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A coup by any other name…
Bill Clinton was impeached but was not convicted or removed from office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
A response to UiTM’s seminar presenters
A discussion only makes sense if:
1. those involved have a certain knowledge of what they are talking about,
2. are able to comprehend arguments.
Both is not the case here. Those at UiTM have no idea about Christian-theology, as well as Islamic theology. Why discuss with them?
Fun with flowcharts: the China-US Conspiracy Scheme
What do you call persistent Chinese currency RMB being pegged to the US $?
Allowing US to print Billion, now in the trillion without much loss of valuation.
A coup by any other name…
To answer your query hrk there wouldn’t be an election until such time as Suthep and his backers have changed the electoral rules to effectively disenfranchise the majority.
As for the legal system in thailand it is hopelessly politicised and selective justice is served up on a daily basis.in short it will probably take a revolution to sort thailand out once and for all
A coup by any other name…
Yes you may well have a point Chris. There could be an internal revolt in the army. I wouldn’t want to be Suthep or the members of the privy council if that were to happen.
Wither Human Rights?
I really appreciate this article as it is written by someone that I know has no interest in practical politics.
This article is an act of #MelawanLupa, to remind us, the people of Indonesia, especially the young people who was not experience the 1998 tragedy and will be the deciding part in presidential election this year.
I support the suggestion to translate this article to help Indonesian people in making decision of their future leader.
Cambodia is not a province of Thailand
Does anyone know the name and location of the stone inscription that Eisel referenced under Section 2 last paragraph? Thanks
“there is a badly damaged inscription of the same period with the word Suvaс╣Зс╣Зabh┼лmi on it (and almost none of the other words are legible on that stone).”
A coup by any other name…
Sorry if I’m posting too much, but I found the following quote in a Bangkok Post opinion piece called “A Time for Restraint”.
“Immediately after the Constitutional Court’s ruling, the house of a court judge, Siam Commercial Bank’s headquarters, and Chulabhorn Hospital were attacked with grenades on the same night.”
Gee…I wonder who owns 25% of SCB? Wait, wait, wait…don’t tell me.
Oh yes! Now I remember! It’s
ATTENTION! The above comment has been redacted and censored by the Organisation for the Removal of Trash of the Land. The perpetrator will be apprehended shortly and incarcerated with all other criminals, such as murderers. Well…actually…murderers aren’t arrested in Thailand. But, we’re working on it. LONG LIVE THE TROUGH!
A coup by any other name…
Thailand should join the Constitution of the Month club. It would be cheaper that way. You buy 10 Constitutions for 30 baht, and then all you have to do is buy one Constitution every month for one year at full price. Sounds like a good deal to me!
(Includes free shipping & handling. All credit cards accepted. Offer only good until civil war starts.)
A coup by any other name…
You get my award for best answer. Thank you!
And for the rest of our contestants, we have consolation prizes of “get out of jail free” cards good for any offense in Maithailand. (Except lese majeste, of course.)
A coup by any other name…
Since 1932 there has not been a successful coup without involvement of the army chief. All coup attempts by colonels have failed.
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
Might that simply be called the class struggle?
You could say a section of society has always aspired to the American dream, getting a leg up through connections is par for the course.
Uses and Abuses of history: Peter Carey responds
While Peter Masry was quite correct in describing the general unwillingness of average Indonesians to stray from the prescribed version of their history, I am quite puzzled by the noted two dates [ 1963 and 1948 that he had referenced in his comment. Were these significant dates in Indonesian history?. I assume that he probably had intended to use 1945 and 1965 as those dates. Further, the shaping of Indonesian history and its destiny that led to its independence was quite different than those in other parts of Asia, but does that make it less desirable, as inferred in his comment?. I truly believe that whatever Mr Masry had in mind in offering his comment would benefit greatly by learning to understand the different dynamics that shaped the history of Indonesia.
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
Census is first of all the total population of a country.
‘Taxation with Representation’ is the primary reason census is taken. Myanmar has no such system due to continual turmoil since 1948. Anything else down the line is rather misplaced fear.
Ethnic and religion designation are important only there is a clear religious or ethnic preference declared by the existing government.
As of now there is no preference of such even though there is a inherently strong historically justifiable preference to Buddhism.
This is the cultural heritage that all the west must respect, no matter what the vantage point they use to criticize anything ongoing in Myanmar.
As for the kala, Tayoke or other designates as citizen or Foreign resident, existed even during Ne Win’s BSPP era, need to be updated fairly to include everyone within the contiguous border of Myanmar.
As in Thailand,Malaysia,India and China Citizenship become of secondary important once economic certainty among a country is ascertained/not interfered by useless careless others.
Uses and Abuses of history: Peter Carey responds
The Dutch only came to trade? Oh Please.
What about the social caste system which put the peasant natives at the lowest of the low?
The forced labors and mass massacres?
We’re on the good terms with the Japanese because they were the lesser evil compared to the Dutch Empire. In a most dire situation, ones will perceive another opposing demon as a hero, that’s what happened in Indonesia.
FYI today generations aren’t really care about Pieterzoon Coen, the title already goes to Daendels and Westerling for at least a few decades. So please stop to whitewash your ancestors’ sins by saying they only came here to trade. Both parties should face their own inner demons. Including us young Indonesians, for we must face our darker pasts and carry the guilt of our brutal government and all they did to our own people and the neighbors. While Soeharto’s gone, his tremendous sins remain. It’s up to us to end this shame. To face the truth, atone, and reconcile.
It’s sad that the victims became the monster themselves. It’s the young Indonesians duty to prevent it from ever happening again.
And please, please pardon my manners. Indonesian youths cannot into decorum and proper formality it seems. 😉
Wither Human Rights?
ETAN wrote about Prabowo and some of the other possible ex-military candidates last march. See etan.org
A coup by any other name…
Whether it was/is a coup depends on what follows.
Several of those (like myself) who somehow appreciated the coup in 2006 expected a move towards democracy. In our (excuse me for the plural, but there were quite a few [may be slightly stupid persons] who held a similar believe) understanding, Thaksin had dismantled the path towards enhanced democracy as stipulated in the 1997 constitution, and the hope was that these mistakes would be solved. Soon we learned how foolish the idea was that the military will bring about democratization by a coup. By the way, as a kind of footnotes, it reminds me of Pridi. He facilitated a come back of the royalists against Phibul in the earlay 1940th (who was close to transform Thailand into a republic). The result was that it was these royalists, who pushed him out. They did wait though until he took the hot potatoes out of the fire during the negotiations with the allies. My conclusion is that as little as one can trust the military as agent for democracy one can trust royalists.
It will certainly not be a coup if the courts and the many commission like NACC, EC etc. will facilitate democratization. As indicators I have four variables:
1. When will there by new elections and how are they organized?
2. How will the prime minister and government be selected?
3. Will those de-stabilizing the state (usually understood as “high treason”) will be punished by the law (or do we have a few legal systems in Thailand)?
4. Will there be changes of the constitution abolishing all the non-democratic elements?
Following current news, it seems that these questions are answered already.
A coup by any other name…
It was!
Clinton was NOT impeached though
Wither Human Rights?
This article definitely can give new understanding for those who are apathy about Indonesia’s human rights history. But I think you should ask to former State Intelligence agents, defence strategist, and even retired armed services officers to find better (and even neutral) references towards this issue. Because you can’t make an assumption just from human rights activists’ point of view. Particularly former State Intelligence agents, they must know better. If you are lucky enough, you even can get sensitive information from them. But one thing I regret from this article, you indirectly provoke readers by quoting Ryamizard’s “ancient” statements (2003, 10 years ago). While in analyzing Prabowo’s human rights record, you put his denial statement which you quoted from recent interview. The comparison becomes unequal. If someone interviewed Prabowo when he was still in duty/active at army, would the answer be the same?
3R: race, religion and royalty in Malaysia
Tony Pua is an Oxford graduate. I know him and his writings. Malaysia is blessed to have him as a politician.