Anyone using The Nation as a source has less credibility than they do.
The biggest reason for one crop a year is inadequate irrigation available. Every time someone announces a new Dam project, the protest agitators from Bangkok go raise a stink and get a bunch of protesters there, who are not from the area to keep them poor.
It is ironic, I suppose, but their aim was to destroy the validity of the election – preventing the substitution-required 90% representation in Parliament. They’ve made sure that 10% of the seats went unfilled … so far.
It is ironic as well, I suppose, that those Suthep has termed the “popcorn vendors” are shooting people turned out under his direction … but again you have to look at the ‘big picture’. Although he’s on record as “loving” the popcorn vendors, he is not in control of them. The people in control of Suthep are in control of the “popcorn vendors” as well and their goal is to extinguish elected government in Thailand, by whatever it takes to do so. The tanks are warming up in the background, if it comes to that.
Did you see the New York Times story on Prayuth’s speech.
Headline: “Thailand’s Army Chief Cautions Antigovernment Protesters”
then byline: “The head of Thailand’s army, after months of neutrality, tells government opponents to “ask yourselves whether this would end peacefully.””
Go to the Bangkok Post or the Nation and you do not find any hint of “caution: to protesters. In the twitter-sphere, there was just snark that Suthip being mad because Prayuth didn’t hand him power with coup. If General Prayuth’s quote “ask yourselves whether this would end peacefully.” is accurate, that is pretty clear language.
Fuller also reports “General Prayuth used the word constitution nine times in his 10-minute speech and underlined that it was still in force.”
What gives? Is anybody in the Thai language media reporting the speech with the same frame that Fuller did? Is Fuller just doing a un-Thai farang political analysis of language that the Thais are clueless about?
Really, how about 20 – 30 thugs occupying your front yard and not letting you in? Legal demonstration? Clap trap is the description you should be looking for.
While I don’t condone any form of violence on any side of the current conflict, I always thought there should be some sort of punishment for the stupidity that of all things Guy Fawkes masks are used by the Thai ultra-royalists.
You are so right, but as a reply he – and a lot of the demonstrators – will definitely tell you that they know this, that they don’t support him and that they don’t want Suthep play a further role in Thai politics later on (and that he is only a catalyst for the anger of the middle-class).
But be sure that no-one of them will oppose him playing a big role in his “people’s council” if it comes to the expected judicial coup.
If one looks at history the pattern of violence is obvious:
1. After the coup against Pridi the free Thai politicians were killed.
2. In 1973 those demanding democracy were killed
3. In 1976 those who wanted to maintain democracy were killed
4. In 1992 those who were against dictatorship were killed
5. In 2010 the red shirts were killed
To the people who keep defending this regime:
Some people don’t seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts did NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. “T” regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a “glorious victory” over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.
In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 (this would block out the silly comment that only the rich and elite vote for the Dems.) people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.
NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections? Not Democratic at all, is it?!
Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.
What Jorgen doesn’t get is that when the popcorn killers are celebrated by the #1 leader of the PDRC, the Bangkok Post opinion writers, and the girls with the T-shirts, while maybe not complicit in individual acts, they are complicit in the culture that make these acts likely, and possibly inevitable.
We saw the deaths and injuries of the people sympathetic to the red shirts or PT at the hands of the PDRC documented on this blog by Nick Nostitz. Even Mr. Nostitz had been assaulted by the PDRC.
But according to Jorgen, this is different because the people who suffered these casualties were knowingly part of the conflict (but they weren’t, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time) According to Jorgen, it must be ok to kill policemen, if it is done by the PDRC or their supporters.
“They will do unto me like I did unto them”. Is that a cautionary tale from the law of karma? We won’t know from the Buddhists because they are too busy shaking down hotel managers gangster style.
Mr. Udvang, there is much that was wrong with Taksin and the Red Shirt movement is not without its faults, but no matter how bad they are Suthep offers no solution to any of Thailand’s problems. He is a thug in the rural godfather tradition, has been neck deep in corruption throughout his career, and is not very subtly encouraging violence at the moment. It is telling that he is apparently the best man the opposition can field.
Anyone wanting a laugh – in these dark days – should have a look at this “analysis”. The subtitles are especially hilarious : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMActdvSZ9I
Jorgen, I’m pretty sure the cartoons in question are a form of political satire rather than propaganda in the way you seem to suggest. They’re pretty strong stuff, but aside from my Thai wife laughing at the idea that they’re propaganda, there are a couple of things to notice.
1. They are a parody of “Manee lae Mana”, generally translated as “Manee and Friends”. It is a reading primer that was used by many rural Thais when they were kids. I used it years ago. You can find the book(s) on the web. The language in the pictures is simple and again, reflects the original book.
2. The use of the chair is a reference to a specific event in Thai history – the Thammasat massacre. In fact, one of the pictures, when Manee beats the dog hanging from a tree, is a recreation of very famous picture of a hanging man being beaten with a folding chair.
See, Manee in the books is a good little girl in rural Thailand. The pictures are basically, “Manee got a chair”. It is very angry and very political art, but it’s hardly a training manual for red shirt violence.
I realize the votes are counted publicly … locally. But then they’re forwarded to anti-election commission for wider-area ‘adjustments’, aren’t they?
If you go here and click on the column headers you can sort the date by the various columns.
Sorting on the “nono’s” shows 9 of the top ten in the north … I try to reproduce it below … I just don’t believe it. I never believed the RTA’s 2007 Substitution passed in the north either.
RegionProvince% valid vote% ‘no!’ votes + ‘no vote!’s % stay at home
1Nan333037
1Chiang Mai482725
2Tak182557
1Mae Hong Son412435
2Phetchabun282448
1Phayao402337
1Lamphun522127
1Lampang432037
1Phrae432037
4Chainat292051
Gary Area – I think you are almost completely correct in your analysis. All trust seems to have broken down – eg. here, where Yingluck, wisely perhaps, seems not to have been willing to put her head in the mouth of the tiger : bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/396743/defence-council-meeting-postponed
it’s ironical , is n’t it – that in the South, and parts of Bangkok, i.e. in those places where large numbers were likely to vote AGAINST Yingluck, that the Yellow thugs prevented people voting against her ??!!
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The weakness of the Thai royalists
Because they are busy working their farms, and they would never risk their money maker, which most of are old, on a long road trip.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
Anyone using The Nation as a source has less credibility than they do.
The biggest reason for one crop a year is inadequate irrigation available. Every time someone announces a new Dam project, the protest agitators from Bangkok go raise a stink and get a bunch of protesters there, who are not from the area to keep them poor.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
The Bangkok Post calls them rice farmers, which is why they do,I think.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
He is at the protests all the time because he is a PDRC supporter, look him up on Facebook
Thai election by the numbers
It is ironic, I suppose, but their aim was to destroy the validity of the election – preventing the substitution-required 90% representation in Parliament. They’ve made sure that 10% of the seats went unfilled … so far.
It is ironic as well, I suppose, that those Suthep has termed the “popcorn vendors” are shooting people turned out under his direction … but again you have to look at the ‘big picture’. Although he’s on record as “loving” the popcorn vendors, he is not in control of them. The people in control of Suthep are in control of the “popcorn vendors” as well and their goal is to extinguish elected government in Thailand, by whatever it takes to do so. The tanks are warming up in the background, if it comes to that.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Did you see the New York Times story on Prayuth’s speech.
Headline: “Thailand’s Army Chief Cautions Antigovernment Protesters”
then byline: “The head of Thailand’s army, after months of neutrality, tells government opponents to “ask yourselves whether this would end peacefully.””
Go to the Bangkok Post or the Nation and you do not find any hint of “caution: to protesters. In the twitter-sphere, there was just snark that Suthip being mad because Prayuth didn’t hand him power with coup. If General Prayuth’s quote “ask yourselves whether this would end peacefully.” is accurate, that is pretty clear language.
Fuller also reports “General Prayuth used the word constitution nine times in his 10-minute speech and underlined that it was still in force.”
What gives? Is anybody in the Thai language media reporting the speech with the same frame that Fuller did? Is Fuller just doing a un-Thai farang political analysis of language that the Thais are clueless about?
What is a Thai going take from Prayuth’s speech?
The weakness of the Thai royalists
Really, how about 20 – 30 thugs occupying your front yard and not letting you in? Legal demonstration? Clap trap is the description you should be looking for.
BTW Suthep ordered the shooting of civilians.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
While I don’t condone any form of violence on any side of the current conflict, I always thought there should be some sort of punishment for the stupidity that of all things Guy Fawkes masks are used by the Thai ultra-royalists.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
You are so right, but as a reply he – and a lot of the demonstrators – will definitely tell you that they know this, that they don’t support him and that they don’t want Suthep play a further role in Thai politics later on (and that he is only a catalyst for the anger of the middle-class).
But be sure that no-one of them will oppose him playing a big role in his “people’s council” if it comes to the expected judicial coup.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
If one looks at history the pattern of violence is obvious:
1. After the coup against Pridi the free Thai politicians were killed.
2. In 1973 those demanding democracy were killed
3. In 1976 those who wanted to maintain democracy were killed
4. In 1992 those who were against dictatorship were killed
5. In 2010 the red shirts were killed
Suthep’s romantic tale
To the people who keep defending this regime:
Some people don’t seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts did NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. “T” regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a “glorious victory” over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.
In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 (this would block out the silly comment that only the rich and elite vote for the Dems.) people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.
NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections? Not Democratic at all, is it?!
Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
What Jorgen doesn’t get is that when the popcorn killers are celebrated by the #1 leader of the PDRC, the Bangkok Post opinion writers, and the girls with the T-shirts, while maybe not complicit in individual acts, they are complicit in the culture that make these acts likely, and possibly inevitable.
We saw the deaths and injuries of the people sympathetic to the red shirts or PT at the hands of the PDRC documented on this blog by Nick Nostitz. Even Mr. Nostitz had been assaulted by the PDRC.
But according to Jorgen, this is different because the people who suffered these casualties were knowingly part of the conflict (but they weren’t, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time) According to Jorgen, it must be ok to kill policemen, if it is done by the PDRC or their supporters.
“They will do unto me like I did unto them”. Is that a cautionary tale from the law of karma? We won’t know from the Buddhists because they are too busy shaking down hotel managers gangster style.
Enjoy your hate, Mr. Jorgen.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
Mr. Udvang, there is much that was wrong with Taksin and the Red Shirt movement is not without its faults, but no matter how bad they are Suthep offers no solution to any of Thailand’s problems. He is a thug in the rural godfather tradition, has been neck deep in corruption throughout his career, and is not very subtly encouraging violence at the moment. It is telling that he is apparently the best man the opposition can field.
The weakness of the Thai royalists
Anyone wanting a laugh – in these dark days – should have a look at this “analysis”. The subtitles are especially hilarious : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMActdvSZ9I
The weakness of the Thai royalists
You’re right. Why is there so much blindness to this truth?
The weakness of the Thai royalists
Jorgen, I’m pretty sure the cartoons in question are a form of political satire rather than propaganda in the way you seem to suggest. They’re pretty strong stuff, but aside from my Thai wife laughing at the idea that they’re propaganda, there are a couple of things to notice.
1. They are a parody of “Manee lae Mana”, generally translated as “Manee and Friends”. It is a reading primer that was used by many rural Thais when they were kids. I used it years ago. You can find the book(s) on the web. The language in the pictures is simple and again, reflects the original book.
2. The use of the chair is a reference to a specific event in Thai history – the Thammasat massacre. In fact, one of the pictures, when Manee beats the dog hanging from a tree, is a recreation of very famous picture of a hanging man being beaten with a folding chair.
See, Manee in the books is a good little girl in rural Thailand. The pictures are basically, “Manee got a chair”. It is very angry and very political art, but it’s hardly a training manual for red shirt violence.
Thai election by the numbers
Sorry the table didn’t work out.
You can sort it yourself if you want to.
Thai election by the numbers
I realize the votes are counted publicly … locally. But then they’re forwarded to anti-election commission for wider-area ‘adjustments’, aren’t they?
If you go here and click on the column headers you can sort the date by the various columns.
Sorting on the “nono’s” shows 9 of the top ten in the north … I try to reproduce it below … I just don’t believe it. I never believed the RTA’s 2007 Substitution passed in the north either.
RegionProvince% valid vote% ‘no!’ votes + ‘no vote!’s % stay at home
1Nan333037
1Chiang Mai482725
2Tak182557
1Mae Hong Son412435
2Phetchabun282448
1Phayao402337
1Lamphun522127
1Lampang432037
1Phrae432037
4Chainat292051
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Gary Area – I think you are almost completely correct in your analysis. All trust seems to have broken down – eg. here, where Yingluck, wisely perhaps, seems not to have been willing to put her head in the mouth of the tiger : bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/396743/defence-council-meeting-postponed
Thai election by the numbers
it’s ironical , is n’t it – that in the South, and parts of Bangkok, i.e. in those places where large numbers were likely to vote AGAINST Yingluck, that the Yellow thugs prevented people voting against her ??!!