Glad you got some pleasure out of that ‘hero’ stuff Nomi.
Now let’s move forward to NM bias. When Bangkok and Thai middle class are protesting against the government, it is ‘Middle Class Rage threatens Democracy’. Maybe that needs some update because now the Thai people who toil the land, Thailand’s rice farmers are in rage, hence: ‘Near Suicidal Rice Farmers Rage threatens Democracy’ would be apt.
Perhaps if middle-class pebbles fail to even slightly ruffle Yingluck’s immaculate hairdo, carabao manure hurled by very desperate Thai rice farmers could.
Khun Vichai, you haven’t given me much to go on other than your faith and the hopes of many. Perhaps I may be allowed a slightly different tack. ‘Uproot’: this clearly begins with Thaksin and Yingluck but how far, in your opinion, should the uprooting go (banning from politics, imprisonment, confiscation of assets, banishment or more)? One assumes that any action taken against any member of the Shinawatra ‘clan’ will be undertaken through the courts and giving mind to the laws of Thailand including penalties associated to specific crimes. Is that the case or will the law need to be suspended as well as the democratic process to achieve this? Who else might be caught up in this ‘uprooting’? Whilst a specific timetable has not been mentioned, I believe that Khun Suthep has talked in terms of around 18 months before new elections. Given the speed of the legal process isn’t it rather difficult to see how the uprooting alone will have been completed within such a timeframe, and doesn’t that suggest it will be a far longer period before ‘normal’ politics resumes?
Once the uprooting has been completed would you a)support a return to a fully elected Senate as well as a House of Reps? and b) If a political party (perhaps born out of the remains of PTP) were to gain an electoral majority in a future election would that be acceptable to PDRC supporters, in your opinion?
I agree David. But New Mandala is a biased site used by Andrew Macgregor Marshall for his mainly unsourced material on Thailand. Whatever he says, Reuters got rid of him because he could not substantiate the reports he was writing.
The co-founders remove and censor posts when they don’t fit their preconceived ideas. They’ve removed mine, they’ve removed others. They are both a disgrace to academia and free speech to allow this to happen. No decent university would have them even cleaning the toilets. Ph.Ds and professors. What a joke.
‘Judicial coup’ is such a loaded term that it is unhelpful because it tends to elicit a knee-jerk reaction rather than foster any process of thinking through the issues.
Apart from the Red Shirt’s perennial whipping boy, The Nation, there is plenty of media support for persons and parties on both sides of the political divide. You may complain about the quality of it, you may not agree with it, but it’s undeniably there.
As Thai people’s friend for so long, I’ve been growing up sadly accustomed to this kind of political turmoil every once in a while sparkled from elections or not…the same utter question of why and how the state of this kind of the crisis can be so far reaching for over a half of the century. All the struggles don’t seem of class or ideology in nature, but rather between two plutocratic governing body equally polarized on both sides which have too often all failed the entire Thai people…This one like any precedent ones doesn’t seem to converge on any consensus building likely, if it does, that will only be a quick fix to quench the dangerous fire, then the vicious circle will once again bounce back and fro so tragically as we all know it…
What to do? Explain the nature of these “very very very bad things” to the electorate (easy to do, since most of the media in Thailand clearly has an anti-redshirt bias), propose a credible and democratic alternative to the current government, and pressure the government to hold a new election.
The alternative (agitating for a coup), will, if successful, result in a government that also does very very very bad things, with no prospect of removing that government (since the coup will also result in a “reform” of the democratic system intended to prevent that from ever happening).
Many good facts and appropriate speculations here – far superior to what is available in the Thai English-language press.
That the vote went off is a surprise to me. What other surprises await? Hopefully, PM Yingluck won’t step aside. Let anti-Democratic courts force her out. Then we will discover whether the military will yet again support the old-money elite, or will finally work to reestablish electoral governance.
Mr. Obamas first stop after his reelection was at HM the King, then Khun Yingluck and further to Lady Aung. SEA economic community is coming near. If you like entertainment google “yingluck oboma” if you want more than that go with “thaksin usa weapons red”.
And still my question: ‘If an elected gov does bad things, very very very bad and eval things, what to do?’
haha… Thanks Vichai, I’ve had such a bad week (not politics-peace there) that this gave me a good laugh.
Now I have this wonderful caricature of little kamnan david suthep on a world map slinging little pebbles towards Dubai but never quite hitting Goliath Thaksin. Yet heaps of other little people getting bumps on their heads from falling pebbles wondering what in the heavens is happening in the land of smiles.
I’ve got to disagree! I am from KL, Malaya and currently on a special assignment in Kuching, Sarawak and based on my findings, 99% of Sarawakians do desire for independence and I personally give full support to Sarawak (and Sabah) becoming independent.
President Obama during his visit to BKK said in 2012 he was proud to stand side by side with the democratically elected leader. Now the international community is laughing at the way democracy is demolished by the thugs paid by Suthep with the help of the army, the government officials and the top businesses. Democracy is one thing everyone should protect and more importantly the army is there to ensure that democracy is upheld.
Mike Dudman – “Suthep et el is not intent on achieving the exact same thing”
Suthep and other have declared they intend to rule unopposed for 12 years! -Dictatorship
I simply asked the same question over and over and am still waiting for an answer. What electoral reforms did the Democrats do each time they ruled after a coup? – other than load up the dice?
” … one would have thought that the opportunity, right now, for opposition parties to make hay could not be better…”
An Abhisit/Democrat Party ‘honest mistake’ maybe?
Now what Mike Dudman asks? Could Suthep/ PDRC really offer something better than Thaksin’s corruptive politics?
That is the hope of the hundreds of thousands of active, and mllions of silent, sympathizers to the Uproot Movement’s call for reform. But personally I believe that most definitely Suthep et al ‘is not intent on achieving or recreating Thaksin’s corruptive one party state’. Having aroused millions to his nearly daily exhortations ‘to Uproot’ and then ‘to Reform’, Suthep will be obliged to try with all his might and heart, or, die trying. His millions of symphatizers will demand no less.
There is a sense of relief that the Feb 2 polls have come and gone with relatively little violence. When I saw clips of the shooting at Laksi on Saturday, one day before the polls, in which at least six persons were injured, I got the impression that certain military personnel, in civvies, were involved on the anti-government side. In particular, there was a three-man sniper team, amid all the hubbub, going about their murderous business very efficiently. The assault rifle the sniper was firing appeared to be the Israeli-made Tavor, 58,000 of which were delivered to the Thai army in 2009, and unavailable to anyone else in the country.
However, despite the polls, Thailand still has a long slog ahead to fill the parliamentary seats left vacant in Sunday’s election because of obstruction by the protesters. We still don’t know what Suthep Taugsuban and his PDRC are planning next; they announced today that they are disbanding two rally stages of out seven, for “security” reasons. More likely, it is for financial reasons: estimates for running the rally is anywhere from 10-20 million baht per day. So, though their backers may have deep pockets, it’s still hurting them.
Then there is the possibility that the elections could be nullified by the Constitutional Court on some technicality; don’t forget that the Democrats, so called, boycotted the elections, so parliament would lack any meaningful opposition; or PM Yingluck might be found guilty on corruption charges in the rice-pledging scheme and disbarred from politics for five years. This scenario of a judicial coup, if all else fails, is seen as likely by the red-shirted UDD, now that military coups are out of vogue. My own feeling is that the PDRC and their backers have invested too much to let the Shinawatra’s win go unchallenged.
I’ve always had severe reservations about that whole boat incident. To this day I doubt Mr. Naw Kham was guilty the piracy. Sure would be nice to have heard from the Thai policemen who did the deed under contract.
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Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
I think you mean separation. Sabah and Sarawak are not “dependent” on West Malaysia.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Glad you got some pleasure out of that ‘hero’ stuff Nomi.
Now let’s move forward to NM bias. When Bangkok and Thai middle class are protesting against the government, it is ‘Middle Class Rage threatens Democracy’. Maybe that needs some update because now the Thai people who toil the land, Thailand’s rice farmers are in rage, hence: ‘Near Suicidal Rice Farmers Rage threatens Democracy’ would be apt.
Perhaps if middle-class pebbles fail to even slightly ruffle Yingluck’s immaculate hairdo, carabao manure hurled by very desperate Thai rice farmers could.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Khun Vichai, you haven’t given me much to go on other than your faith and the hopes of many. Perhaps I may be allowed a slightly different tack. ‘Uproot’: this clearly begins with Thaksin and Yingluck but how far, in your opinion, should the uprooting go (banning from politics, imprisonment, confiscation of assets, banishment or more)? One assumes that any action taken against any member of the Shinawatra ‘clan’ will be undertaken through the courts and giving mind to the laws of Thailand including penalties associated to specific crimes. Is that the case or will the law need to be suspended as well as the democratic process to achieve this? Who else might be caught up in this ‘uprooting’? Whilst a specific timetable has not been mentioned, I believe that Khun Suthep has talked in terms of around 18 months before new elections. Given the speed of the legal process isn’t it rather difficult to see how the uprooting alone will have been completed within such a timeframe, and doesn’t that suggest it will be a far longer period before ‘normal’ politics resumes?
Once the uprooting has been completed would you a)support a return to a fully elected Senate as well as a House of Reps? and b) If a political party (perhaps born out of the remains of PTP) were to gain an electoral majority in a future election would that be acceptable to PDRC supporters, in your opinion?
The King Never Smiles?
I agree David. But New Mandala is a biased site used by Andrew Macgregor Marshall for his mainly unsourced material on Thailand. Whatever he says, Reuters got rid of him because he could not substantiate the reports he was writing.
The co-founders remove and censor posts when they don’t fit their preconceived ideas. They’ve removed mine, they’ve removed others. They are both a disgrace to academia and free speech to allow this to happen. No decent university would have them even cleaning the toilets. Ph.Ds and professors. What a joke.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
‘Judicial coup’ is such a loaded term that it is unhelpful because it tends to elicit a knee-jerk reaction rather than foster any process of thinking through the issues.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Apart from the Red Shirt’s perennial whipping boy, The Nation, there is plenty of media support for persons and parties on both sides of the political divide. You may complain about the quality of it, you may not agree with it, but it’s undeniably there.
A response to Vanina Sucharitkul
As Thai people’s friend for so long, I’ve been growing up sadly accustomed to this kind of political turmoil every once in a while sparkled from elections or not…the same utter question of why and how the state of this kind of the crisis can be so far reaching for over a half of the century. All the struggles don’t seem of class or ideology in nature, but rather between two plutocratic governing body equally polarized on both sides which have too often all failed the entire Thai people…This one like any precedent ones doesn’t seem to converge on any consensus building likely, if it does, that will only be a quick fix to quench the dangerous fire, then the vicious circle will once again bounce back and fro so tragically as we all know it…
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
What to do? Explain the nature of these “very very very bad things” to the electorate (easy to do, since most of the media in Thailand clearly has an anti-redshirt bias), propose a credible and democratic alternative to the current government, and pressure the government to hold a new election.
The alternative (agitating for a coup), will, if successful, result in a government that also does very very very bad things, with no prospect of removing that government (since the coup will also result in a “reform” of the democratic system intended to prevent that from ever happening).
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Many good facts and appropriate speculations here – far superior to what is available in the Thai English-language press.
That the vote went off is a surprise to me. What other surprises await? Hopefully, PM Yingluck won’t step aside. Let anti-Democratic courts force her out. Then we will discover whether the military will yet again support the old-money elite, or will finally work to reestablish electoral governance.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Mr. Obamas first stop after his reelection was at HM the King, then Khun Yingluck and further to Lady Aung. SEA economic community is coming near. If you like entertainment google “yingluck oboma” if you want more than that go with “thaksin usa weapons red”.
And still my question: ‘If an elected gov does bad things, very very very bad and eval things, what to do?’
Middle class rage threatens democracy
haha… Thanks Vichai, I’ve had such a bad week (not politics-peace there) that this gave me a good laugh.
Now I have this wonderful caricature of little kamnan david suthep on a world map slinging little pebbles towards Dubai but never quite hitting Goliath Thaksin. Yet heaps of other little people getting bumps on their heads from falling pebbles wondering what in the heavens is happening in the land of smiles.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
why can’t i click reply at Otto’s reply? 😮
i want to say thanks – i had 7 years frenc at school, but never latin 😉
Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
I’ve got to disagree! I am from KL, Malaya and currently on a special assignment in Kuching, Sarawak and based on my findings, 99% of Sarawakians do desire for independence and I personally give full support to Sarawak (and Sabah) becoming independent.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
President Obama during his visit to BKK said in 2012 he was proud to stand side by side with the democratically elected leader. Now the international community is laughing at the way democracy is demolished by the thugs paid by Suthep with the help of the army, the government officials and the top businesses. Democracy is one thing everyone should protect and more importantly the army is there to ensure that democracy is upheld.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
The expression is cui bono.
Bangkok’s last Red Shirt fortress
Hi Cherles,
Michael WHO ? I guess you know him personally , correct ?
BTW, the F , your last name stands for something ? What is it ?…I guess so !
Cheers buddy !
.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
Mike Dudman – “Suthep et el is not intent on achieving the exact same thing”
Suthep and other have declared they intend to rule unopposed for 12 years! -Dictatorship
I simply asked the same question over and over and am still waiting for an answer. What electoral reforms did the Democrats do each time they ruled after a coup? – other than load up the dice?
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
” … one would have thought that the opportunity, right now, for opposition parties to make hay could not be better…”
An Abhisit/Democrat Party ‘honest mistake’ maybe?
Now what Mike Dudman asks? Could Suthep/ PDRC really offer something better than Thaksin’s corruptive politics?
That is the hope of the hundreds of thousands of active, and mllions of silent, sympathizers to the Uproot Movement’s call for reform. But personally I believe that most definitely Suthep et al ‘is not intent on achieving or recreating Thaksin’s corruptive one party state’. Having aroused millions to his nearly daily exhortations ‘to Uproot’ and then ‘to Reform’, Suthep will be obliged to try with all his might and heart, or, die trying. His millions of symphatizers will demand no less.
Thailand’s election: 2 February 2014
There is a sense of relief that the Feb 2 polls have come and gone with relatively little violence. When I saw clips of the shooting at Laksi on Saturday, one day before the polls, in which at least six persons were injured, I got the impression that certain military personnel, in civvies, were involved on the anti-government side. In particular, there was a three-man sniper team, amid all the hubbub, going about their murderous business very efficiently. The assault rifle the sniper was firing appeared to be the Israeli-made Tavor, 58,000 of which were delivered to the Thai army in 2009, and unavailable to anyone else in the country.
However, despite the polls, Thailand still has a long slog ahead to fill the parliamentary seats left vacant in Sunday’s election because of obstruction by the protesters. We still don’t know what Suthep Taugsuban and his PDRC are planning next; they announced today that they are disbanding two rally stages of out seven, for “security” reasons. More likely, it is for financial reasons: estimates for running the rally is anywhere from 10-20 million baht per day. So, though their backers may have deep pockets, it’s still hurting them.
Then there is the possibility that the elections could be nullified by the Constitutional Court on some technicality; don’t forget that the Democrats, so called, boycotted the elections, so parliament would lack any meaningful opposition; or PM Yingluck might be found guilty on corruption charges in the rice-pledging scheme and disbarred from politics for five years. This scenario of a judicial coup, if all else fails, is seen as likely by the red-shirted UDD, now that military coups are out of vogue. My own feeling is that the PDRC and their backers have invested too much to let the Shinawatra’s win go unchallenged.
Cross-border Shan: Naw Kham and Twet Nga Lu
I’ve always had severe reservations about that whole boat incident. To this day I doubt Mr. Naw Kham was guilty the piracy. Sure would be nice to have heard from the Thai policemen who did the deed under contract.