Thanks for mentioning that, John G. I listened to the approximately hour-long (at times a bit rambling) interview by the Acharn Boonmee and for me it was absorbing listening. I hope someone has the time to provide a full translation in English so that others can ponder the views of arguably the most respected political scientist in Thailand. Of course I suspect that even this mild post will receive a thumbs down from the majority.
You are probably right about Suthep lobbing grenades at his own people. After all they are just sheep and not worth much. He hopes to create more bloodshed to give excuse to the army to come in.
No matter what angles one wants to look at the situation, the Democrats (fronted by Suthep)has no legitimacy. (not unless you are a 14th century robber baron)
Mr. Cohen,
I guess I was too clever by half: I have absolutely no connection with India save for the most superficial knowledge with some awareness of Sanskrit/Pali from my Thai/Cambodian/Burmese study. I really am an Anglo Vermont Yankee/Jewish mixture.
George Thomas
Suthep was on top, but he is on a decline. The bombing damage perception of police more than the interim government. The more violence, the more Suthep has to up the ante and more hardliner emerge, which further alienate the Bangkok base support.
Suthep and the Dem know this, that’s why they start to lean to getting the Dem Dem back to election.
1) Common knowledge means rumor. I don’t think that there is any evidence that the way the military/royalists seek to influence senators and others is materially different than the methods Thaksin used. Face it both side have tried to rig, and succeeded in rigging, the senate and other bodies.
2) The appointment of senators was not debated publicly nor was the public given any opportunity to provide comment or ratify this reversal of progress outside of a single vote for the current constitution, a review of which should significantly undermine it’s legitimacy. The 2007 constitution was presented to the public in a single rush election in which the proposal was “Vote for the constitution that the military has written, or the military will just pick an old one and alter it and you won’t have any say”. Given that the current constitution is basically a modification of old military imposed constitutions any way, this was little choice.
It should also be remembered that the 1997 constitution, although flawed, was truly a people’s constitution, that was progressive and reform-minded. By replacing that with one hastily drafted by self-interested military cronies and calling it sacrosanct, the junta moved the country backwards, not forwards.
In fact, one of the few things in Thailand that was really throughly and publicly debated was the 1997 constitution. It should serve as a better platform for the future than the junta version, that is being so jealously guarded by the courts and other tools of the elite that it protects.
Kyaukse Min and Wirathu fit the bill perfectly I guess (BurmeseDaze with Diderot). Cometh the hour cometh the monk. Witness how much latitude and ‘unofficial’ blessing this demagogue enjoys.
Supermonk turns the tide away from the regime to the alien other. But if they think the Saffron Revolution is all but forgotten they’ve got another think coming.
It’s down to the Sangha to clean up their act and put their own house in order instead of letting themselves being used by the ruling class to its own advantage. The same goes for the public at large. If only preaching peace on earth and good will to all men had worked we’d never have needed another sermon and another and another. Hate speech on the other hand is proven to work by the same sad history of mankind.
Discussed the term kalar in another recent thread here. Suffice it to add that it is generally believed to originate from koo-la (come across) or kula (man as in kula thamagga meaning ”union of man” for the UN), and has never ever meant black in the Burmese language. Always meant Indian – Madrassis are majeethee kalar (tamarind seed colour), Bengalis khortaw kalar, and musalin kalar for those who insist their ‘ethnicity’ is Muslim or Bamar Muslim… simple. The European was also kalapyu (White Indian, like Red Indian no longer current).
Zarni did himself no favours by being disingenuous in his translation of the term.
The moniker Kalar or Kalama is in fact pretty commonplace among the ethnic Burmese. A child may be named thus by their loving parents for their appearance, the same way a Chinese looking child is called Tayoke or Tayokema.
The 19th century author of the best known book on ancient Burmese history “The Glass Palace Chronicles” was called U Kalar.
It is common knowledge, on the other hand, that a certain world famous democracy icon’s unmentionable name in certain circles (now very legitimate and people the West can do business with, thanks to the very same person) used to be Kalama instead.
Never come across a dog named Kalama before. Sign of the times perhaps, but still possible out of affection so Matt should have asked.
And yes, only the most devout among the Burmese will be vegetarians (knowing that the Buddha himself wasn’t one) or leave vermin alone.
A friend of mine yesterday pointed me to an article in Thai Rath (url below) that reports a talk that Thirayuth Bunmii (ah, the sadness of transcription) gave at the Thai Journalists’ Association. The talk –as summarized by Thai Rath’s reporter — outlines his six things that have to change and presents comments about how that might proceed and a little of what he sees as having been done poorly so far by the opposition. All of it might stand in counterpoint to the thoughtful comments report in this post from Sunai Julapongsatorn.
I am at least for the next while going to try to get away without offering a translation or summary in English, but I could come back to that.
NB: I do not offer this as a statement of personal belief or support for what it reports. Please don’t take me to task for what he thinks or doesn’t think.
But I will offer a word of congratulations to the Thai Reporter who did this piece. It’s clear; it’s readable; it appears to be pretty thorough; there were some pertinent questions asked.
More from Diderot:
Beware of the fellow who talks of putting things in order. Putting things in order always means getting other people under your control.
( Méfiez ┬нvous de celui qui veut mettre de l’ordre. Ordonner, c’est toujours se rendre le ma├оtre des autres en les g├кnant.)
Nevertheless, I want to once say something about it here.
The change in the “Tax Act ┬и, which Thaksin the sale of shares of its” Shin-Corp. “To the Sinpgapurer” Temasek Holding “was allowed, something that has been demanded for a long time by the financial industry.
Thaksin has taken up the idea and pass a law.
He has benefited from it, but others too, and it was not repealed under the Abhisit government.
And something which, unfortunately, remains unmentioned today is the fact that Thaksin has coordinated the sale with the Privy Council.
So the Privy Council was informed about every detail of the business and has given his connivance to do so.
Thaisn was cleverly, he knew about the dangerousness of such a trade.
Later, however, the Privy Council has never mentioned that he was involved in the thing.
Perhaps because they’ve killed and maimed publicly too many too often even for the USG to turn a blind eye as usual, plus a very high profile and attractive prisoner of conscience for too long.
Well, what do you know – it’s a happy ending for the USG and our military rulers, finally reconciled. They enforce stability and they consistently remain staunchly anti-communist even if they called themselves socialist at one point. All’s well that ends well, eh?
One of the benefits anywhere of being a lawmaker aka politician is that one is in a position to change laws to make was was illegal, legal and to practice public policy corruption for the private benefit of themselves and their associates. Thaksin Shinawatra is not alone in practicing such deceptions on a large scale, of course.
Your claim that “there really aren’t that many Thaksin fanatics in English language discussions” is belied by the fact that, while thay may not be the majority, there are many of them and they are seldom willing to contribute to mature, intelligent dialogue.
Sunai’s self-serving comments would carry more weight if his leader, Thaksin Shinawatra, had ever really tried to reform the decades-past-its-use-by-date Confucian-based education system which teaches obedience, not the independent thinking he claims to value so highly. Furthermore, it was common knowledge that before the coup, Thaksin was paying a large group of senators a retainer of 50,000 baht per month in order to control the senate: Hence the provision for a partially appointed senate which was thoroughly and publicly debated before being ratified as part of the national referendum which ratified the current constitution by majority vote.
How do you know that the intention of the bullets and bombs was to drive people away from the protests? It seems much more plausible to me that their intention was to drum up sympathy for Suthep’s anti-democracy crusade and to legitimate the military coup that he’s holding out for.
Are the Thai king’s considerable development achievements and benevolence really much more lionized in the mass media than those of Elizabeth II (i.e. the Queen of England, the Queen of Canada and the Queen of Australia – nice work if you can get it) in the mass media in those countries? I think not.
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Thoughts of a pro-government leader
1. I already indicated where your problems are.
2. Further errors should be self-evident.
3. Do you need someone to draw you a picture?
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
If you could provide any analysis or point to specific places where I have erred or am biased, I would be happy to debate them.
“4. A referendum is a referendum, dude.”
So elections are binding when you agree with them, but not when you don’t.
Sounds like I hit a bit close to home with that “last comment”. But as above, feel free to show where I am wrong.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Thanks for mentioning that, John G. I listened to the approximately hour-long (at times a bit rambling) interview by the Acharn Boonmee and for me it was absorbing listening. I hope someone has the time to provide a full translation in English so that others can ponder the views of arguably the most respected political scientist in Thailand. Of course I suspect that even this mild post will receive a thumbs down from the majority.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
More transparently false pro-government propaganda – are you on a government scholarship or what?
1. Common knowledge i.e. open secret
2. A mish-mash of half-truths.
3. Six months drafting and you call it hasty.
4. A referendum is a referendum, dude.
Your last comment that it is ALL about the elites indicates how blinkered and unsophisticated your analysis really is.
Sleeping dogs
Nick
In Myanmar Kalarma is an ultimate complimentary term a Burmese girl will bestow on her best prettiest friend.
1) For having a clear big, attractive, enviable pretty eyes.
2) For being agile, flexible, curvy and soft in movement as the Indian actresses.
3) Having feature such an attractive Aryan/Indian type nose that is not inherently/genetically inherent in Burmese or Tayoke.
This love of a stray dog by a Buddhist family clearly name the dog Klarma
Evident of the author using west useless careless criteria demonizing Buddhist.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Never heard of a “Kangaroo court”?
The shutdown: In honor of NN
You are probably right about Suthep lobbing grenades at his own people. After all they are just sheep and not worth much. He hopes to create more bloodshed to give excuse to the army to come in.
No matter what angles one wants to look at the situation, the Democrats (fronted by Suthep)has no legitimacy. (not unless you are a 14th century robber baron)
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Mr. Cohen,
I guess I was too clever by half: I have absolutely no connection with India save for the most superficial knowledge with some awareness of Sanskrit/Pali from my Thai/Cambodian/Burmese study. I really am an Anglo Vermont Yankee/Jewish mixture.
George Thomas
The shutdown: In honor of NN
Suthep was on top, but he is on a decline. The bombing damage perception of police more than the interim government. The more violence, the more Suthep has to up the ante and more hardliner emerge, which further alienate the Bangkok base support.
Suthep and the Dem know this, that’s why they start to lean to getting the Dem Dem back to election.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
1) Common knowledge means rumor. I don’t think that there is any evidence that the way the military/royalists seek to influence senators and others is materially different than the methods Thaksin used. Face it both side have tried to rig, and succeeded in rigging, the senate and other bodies.
2) The appointment of senators was not debated publicly nor was the public given any opportunity to provide comment or ratify this reversal of progress outside of a single vote for the current constitution, a review of which should significantly undermine it’s legitimacy. The 2007 constitution was presented to the public in a single rush election in which the proposal was “Vote for the constitution that the military has written, or the military will just pick an old one and alter it and you won’t have any say”. Given that the current constitution is basically a modification of old military imposed constitutions any way, this was little choice.
It should also be remembered that the 1997 constitution, although flawed, was truly a people’s constitution, that was progressive and reform-minded. By replacing that with one hastily drafted by self-interested military cronies and calling it sacrosanct, the junta moved the country backwards, not forwards.
In fact, one of the few things in Thailand that was really throughly and publicly debated was the 1997 constitution. It should serve as a better platform for the future than the junta version, that is being so jealously guarded by the courts and other tools of the elite that it protects.
Sleeping dogs
Kyaukse Min and Wirathu fit the bill perfectly I guess (BurmeseDaze with Diderot). Cometh the hour cometh the monk. Witness how much latitude and ‘unofficial’ blessing this demagogue enjoys.
Supermonk turns the tide away from the regime to the alien other. But if they think the Saffron Revolution is all but forgotten they’ve got another think coming.
It’s down to the Sangha to clean up their act and put their own house in order instead of letting themselves being used by the ruling class to its own advantage. The same goes for the public at large. If only preaching peace on earth and good will to all men had worked we’d never have needed another sermon and another and another. Hate speech on the other hand is proven to work by the same sad history of mankind.
Discussed the term kalar in another recent thread here. Suffice it to add that it is generally believed to originate from koo-la (come across) or kula (man as in kula thamagga meaning ”union of man” for the UN), and has never ever meant black in the Burmese language. Always meant Indian – Madrassis are majeethee kalar (tamarind seed colour), Bengalis khortaw kalar, and musalin kalar for those who insist their ‘ethnicity’ is Muslim or Bamar Muslim… simple. The European was also kalapyu (White Indian, like Red Indian no longer current).
Zarni did himself no favours by being disingenuous in his translation of the term.
The moniker Kalar or Kalama is in fact pretty commonplace among the ethnic Burmese. A child may be named thus by their loving parents for their appearance, the same way a Chinese looking child is called Tayoke or Tayokema.
The 19th century author of the best known book on ancient Burmese history “The Glass Palace Chronicles” was called U Kalar.
Listen to the music by the maestro U Sein Kalar “Music of Myamar: Buddhist Chant in the Pali Tradition”.
It is common knowledge, on the other hand, that a certain world famous democracy icon’s unmentionable name in certain circles (now very legitimate and people the West can do business with, thanks to the very same person) used to be Kalama instead.
Never come across a dog named Kalama before. Sign of the times perhaps, but still possible out of affection so Matt should have asked.
And yes, only the most devout among the Burmese will be vegetarians (knowing that the Buddha himself wasn’t one) or leave vermin alone.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
A friend of mine yesterday pointed me to an article in Thai Rath (url below) that reports a talk that Thirayuth Bunmii (ah, the sadness of transcription) gave at the Thai Journalists’ Association. The talk –as summarized by Thai Rath’s reporter — outlines his six things that have to change and presents comments about how that might proceed and a little of what he sees as having been done poorly so far by the opposition. All of it might stand in counterpoint to the thoughtful comments report in this post from Sunai Julapongsatorn.
I am at least for the next while going to try to get away without offering a translation or summary in English, but I could come back to that.
NB: I do not offer this as a statement of personal belief or support for what it reports. Please don’t take me to task for what he thinks or doesn’t think.
But I will offer a word of congratulations to the Thai Reporter who did this piece. It’s clear; it’s readable; it appears to be pretty thorough; there were some pertinent questions asked.
https://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/388487
Sleeping dogs
More from Diderot:
Beware of the fellow who talks of putting things in order. Putting things in order always means getting other people under your control.
( Méfiez ┬нvous de celui qui veut mettre de l’ordre. Ordonner, c’est toujours se rendre le ma├оtre des autres en les g├кnant.)
Supplement to the Voyage of Bougainville
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Sorry, I speak not good English.
Nevertheless, I want to once say something about it here.
The change in the “Tax Act ┬и, which Thaksin the sale of shares of its” Shin-Corp. “To the Sinpgapurer” Temasek Holding “was allowed, something that has been demanded for a long time by the financial industry.
Thaksin has taken up the idea and pass a law.
He has benefited from it, but others too, and it was not repealed under the Abhisit government.
And something which, unfortunately, remains unmentioned today is the fact that Thaksin has coordinated the sale with the Privy Council.
So the Privy Council was informed about every detail of the business and has given his connivance to do so.
Thaisn was cleverly, he knew about the dangerousness of such a trade.
Later, however, the Privy Council has never mentioned that he was involved in the thing.
you wanted to get rid thaksin ……………
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Perhaps because they’ve killed and maimed publicly too many too often even for the USG to turn a blind eye as usual, plus a very high profile and attractive prisoner of conscience for too long.
Well, what do you know – it’s a happy ending for the USG and our military rulers, finally reconciled. They enforce stability and they consistently remain staunchly anti-communist even if they called themselves socialist at one point. All’s well that ends well, eh?
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
One of the benefits anywhere of being a lawmaker aka politician is that one is in a position to change laws to make was was illegal, legal and to practice public policy corruption for the private benefit of themselves and their associates. Thaksin Shinawatra is not alone in practicing such deceptions on a large scale, of course.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Your claim that “there really aren’t that many Thaksin fanatics in English language discussions” is belied by the fact that, while thay may not be the majority, there are many of them and they are seldom willing to contribute to mature, intelligent dialogue.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Sunai’s self-serving comments would carry more weight if his leader, Thaksin Shinawatra, had ever really tried to reform the decades-past-its-use-by-date Confucian-based education system which teaches obedience, not the independent thinking he claims to value so highly. Furthermore, it was common knowledge that before the coup, Thaksin was paying a large group of senators a retainer of 50,000 baht per month in order to control the senate: Hence the provision for a partially appointed senate which was thoroughly and publicly debated before being ratified as part of the national referendum which ratified the current constitution by majority vote.
This is our struggle, no doubt
How do you know that the intention of the bullets and bombs was to drive people away from the protests? It seems much more plausible to me that their intention was to drum up sympathy for Suthep’s anti-democracy crusade and to legitimate the military coup that he’s holding out for.
The King Never Smiles?
Are the Thai king’s considerable development achievements and benevolence really much more lionized in the mass media than those of Elizabeth II (i.e. the Queen of England, the Queen of Canada and the Queen of Australia – nice work if you can get it) in the mass media in those countries? I think not.