No they weren’t unreported. Most of what you write is widely discussed amongst ordinary Red Shirts and others all over the country.
Your claims to some kind of “unique ownership” of your theory is therefore completely false.
And I’m utterly amazed you’d hang onto some ancient resentment because Matt Owen Rees didn’t like Thai Story. Wow.
To be honest I didn’t think it was all that either – it was over-written, covered too much old ground and relied on anecdote and hearsay far too much to be considered definitive.
You do some good work – just get off your exceptional high and pompous horse from time to time please.
Have to say that Andrew Marshall’s continuous and unerring attempts to force his version onto all other commentators is getting irritating.
Yes, Andrew, we know you sacrificed sooo much to save the Thai people and become their hero and that your work is the most radical, dangerous and substantive out there.
We know that because you continually tell everybody, everywhere.
In the realm of political power struggle, “creativity” ultimately ends up being a code word for either “coup d’etat” (creating everything from scratch) or political deals outside of established institutions.
What Thailand needs is more respect for institutions (e.g. elections, rule of law and orderly power transitions), established over a longer time period. They reset the clock on that in 2006/2008, and started it back only in 2011.
If Suthep and his “creative” ideas prevail, that clock will be set back for another 5-10 years. This is not to take sides — same backslide could happen if Thaksin gained dictatorial powers, but that’s less of a threat for now.
Matt: may I ask where yoo post your stuff? Would love to read them. Explosive hard hitting professional writings on Thailand are few and far between, so try not to miss them when I can. I think Handley’s recent work:’…: Blame the King’ is possibly the hardest hitting from him. King Never Smiles have some interesting points, but I find it rather tame.
Andrew: I would say your writing style is rather agressive and most confucius-based asians may consider it confrontational. While it is clear you showed disdain for some writers, whether academia or media, I do not consider your writings anti-thai or hate thai. Era of insanity is a fast-paced read. I enjoyed it. Thank you.
A fascinating and thought provoking article. After reading it twice i see myself somewhat in the camp of what is described as ‘Social Construction of Reality’ as the driving force of this conflict, and that even the ‘Covert Processes’ – or the actors of that level act/react according to a subjective building of a worldview.
But maybe that’s just my preoccupation with the street.
Very interesting jabs and counter feints on writing styles – But, regarding the article.
It is very nice of you, Khun Apivat, to scour different areas of academic discourse and summarise potential models that may be useful for the analysis of the current spat in Thailand.
Ever consider a ‘narrative’ aporoach? I cannot be certain of the exact technical term but it is recently a rising approach to study learning and education. Perhaps part of Thailand’s learning process narrative?
I am not interested in flame wars and am not responding to any of your aggressive posts either on here , facebook, or anywhere else.
Your articles on Thailand are biased and vindictive. You seek every opportunity to denigrate anything to do with Thailand. By all means flame away but I agree with Reuters assessment of your work. Grow up, Andrew, get over it.
Lampoons of artspeak and academy chatter turn up regularly, but this combines both. Compliments to the chef. A well-tossed word salad. A thick stew of language-like morsels. A blancmange of opaque blather. The only thing missing is a colon in the title and some mention of the materiality of an instantiated performance approach to artistic-political juxtaposition.
I have quoted some of the books. McCargo, Chambers. There are others, both Thai and western. Handley’s is a classic and has been misrepresented. He did not write what people say he did write.
Your problem is you attack and are anti-Thai. To be effective you should put aside your personal bias or vendetta or whatever drives you to that attitude and write balanced and not one-side analyses. Put the Reuters episode behind you. I notice you are attacking Thai nationals that have written books that don’t support your views. You even accused one of plagiarism. The academics and writers I speak to have little time for what comes across as vindictiveness. Get rid of your attitude problem and contribute sensibly.
They have not all been self-censored. I have put some pretty “explosive” hard-hitting stuff on facebook and twitter. There are Thai and foreign writers that are not mincing their words. Academics from Thamasart and Chula included. It is a myth that all Thais are taken in by the propaganda (many but not all). McCargo and Paul Chambers have been equally open in their comments. Handley made some good points but has been misinterpreted.
Marshall’s problem is that he gets abusive and does not stick to the facts. He comes across as anti-Thai and biased against the country – the resson Reuters let him go. Personally, I think it is a pity as he probably has much to offer if he were a little more restrained and kept to reliable sources. Once you show personal views, for whatever reason, you lose credibility. McCargo, Chambers, and Handley have not done that.
Since when do we take everything Prayuth says at face value? As you correctly observe, the Thai military is split. The top brass are all loyal to Prawit Wongsuwan, and Reuters were right to name him as a key figure – I’d already reported this in р╕Бр╕ер╕╡р╕вр╕╕р╕Д. But as I also made clear in that article, the military is less concerned with succession than the old feudal elite, and more pragmatic. So Prayuth is sitting on the fence, refusing to commit, until he decides which side will win. At that stage he will back them. The army recognizes that military might alone can’t settle this conflict and backing the losing side would be catastrophic.
And yes, several senior military officers are among my sources.
I think it depends on whether PT remains a Shinawatra property or not.
You might think … “Hell yeah ! It’s a wholly owned subsidiary !” And that’s been the case up until now.
But the value of the fanchise as a wholly owned subsidiary is now certainly much less than in the past. Sure they can win the election, but – with the Shinawatra in absolute control … everyone’s seen this movie before.
On the other hand, the reds had picked another guy for PM last time … I can’t even remember his name. He was a beancounter, I think. The Great Man put his “clone” in positon instead. She’s turned out to be the only class act in Thailand, if you ask me.
One thing that Thai politics needs is attention to detail and … much less drama.
And there must be a reason why Prayuth is backing elections. He’s the guy who said last time, I paraphrase … “A vote for Phuea Thai is a vote for a replay of the same bad movie.”
Prayuth didn’t kill anyone this time, so far, and he must be getting a taste of what it’s like not to be hated. He might grow to like it.
Political figures are not like “friends”. It’s not what they “are” it’s what they do. If Prayuth can follow through … I like him.
Prayuth did say the election is going to take place, didn’t he ?
Do your sources include the RTA?
Has there been a split in the RTA ?
PPT quotes a Reuters article that makes Anupong and Prawit Giles’ organ grinders behind Suthep. Is Prayuth faking it ? Is there going to be the discovery of the usual grounds for disbanding PT and then AP&P will again put the Democrat Party in charge ?
Or has Prayuth burned his bridges, observed that his needs can be well-met by PT – or other elected government – and decided to bring the RTA into the 21st Century ?
Interesting article. Obviously my work is firmly in the “Covert Processes and Hidden Agendas” genre, but I would never suggest this is the whole story. I focus on unreported aspects of the conflict precisely because they are unreported. Hopefully shedding light on them contributes to a better overall understanding.
Had a look at his ‘review’ and agree it is hilarious. Why does he think US Embassy cables are not factual? Maybe he has a direct line to the royal family? Haha
Anyway I admire your guts and pity the Thais who have no way to know the truth of their history.
Anyway, enjoy Singapore and hopefully one day things will change for the better such that you can return to Thailand a free man with your wife and kid.
Not sure Matt Owen Rees includes me as one of the writers of “good books” that “hold no punches”, Rambo, and would be fascinated to know which books he is talking about. In an unintentionally funny online review, he described #thaistory as the worst book he has ever read.
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How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Andrew Marshall
No they weren’t unreported. Most of what you write is widely discussed amongst ordinary Red Shirts and others all over the country.
Your claims to some kind of “unique ownership” of your theory is therefore completely false.
And I’m utterly amazed you’d hang onto some ancient resentment because Matt Owen Rees didn’t like Thai Story. Wow.
To be honest I didn’t think it was all that either – it was over-written, covered too much old ground and relied on anecdote and hearsay far too much to be considered definitive.
You do some good work – just get off your exceptional high and pompous horse from time to time please.
Reflections on the king’s speech
Have to say that Andrew Marshall’s continuous and unerring attempts to force his version onto all other commentators is getting irritating.
Yes, Andrew, we know you sacrificed sooo much to save the Thai people and become their hero and that your work is the most radical, dangerous and substantive out there.
We know that because you continually tell everybody, everywhere.
Private: More creativity needed in defence of democracy
In the realm of political power struggle, “creativity” ultimately ends up being a code word for either “coup d’etat” (creating everything from scratch) or political deals outside of established institutions.
What Thailand needs is more respect for institutions (e.g. elections, rule of law and orderly power transitions), established over a longer time period. They reset the clock on that in 2006/2008, and started it back only in 2011.
If Suthep and his “creative” ideas prevail, that clock will be set back for another 5-10 years. This is not to take sides — same backslide could happen if Thaksin gained dictatorial powers, but that’s less of a threat for now.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Matt: may I ask where yoo post your stuff? Would love to read them. Explosive hard hitting professional writings on Thailand are few and far between, so try not to miss them when I can. I think Handley’s recent work:’…: Blame the King’ is possibly the hardest hitting from him. King Never Smiles have some interesting points, but I find it rather tame.
Andrew: I would say your writing style is rather agressive and most confucius-based asians may consider it confrontational. While it is clear you showed disdain for some writers, whether academia or media, I do not consider your writings anti-thai or hate thai. Era of insanity is a fast-paced read. I enjoyed it. Thank you.
Reflections on the king’s speech
2.1.1.1.1.1 reply to 2.1.1.1 Thanks for sharing your opinion. We’ll wait and see, I guess.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
A fascinating and thought provoking article. After reading it twice i see myself somewhat in the camp of what is described as ‘Social Construction of Reality’ as the driving force of this conflict, and that even the ‘Covert Processes’ – or the actors of that level act/react according to a subjective building of a worldview.
But maybe that’s just my preoccupation with the street.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
WOw?!
Very interesting jabs and counter feints on writing styles – But, regarding the article.
It is very nice of you, Khun Apivat, to scour different areas of academic discourse and summarise potential models that may be useful for the analysis of the current spat in Thailand.
Ever consider a ‘narrative’ aporoach? I cannot be certain of the exact technical term but it is recently a rising approach to study learning and education. Perhaps part of Thailand’s learning process narrative?
Sorry not academic here, so not of much help 🙂
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
The short answer is NO.
I am not interested in flame wars and am not responding to any of your aggressive posts either on here , facebook, or anywhere else.
Your articles on Thailand are biased and vindictive. You seek every opportunity to denigrate anything to do with Thailand. By all means flame away but I agree with Reuters assessment of your work. Grow up, Andrew, get over it.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
[…] How to understand Thailand’s conflict — Apivat Hanvongse at New Mandala on various lenses through which to view the situation […]
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Can you share some of your explosive hard-hitting comments here too please? Fascinated to read them. Thanks!
Private: More creativity needed in defence of democracy
Lampoons of artspeak and academy chatter turn up regularly, but this combines both. Compliments to the chef. A well-tossed word salad. A thick stew of language-like morsels. A blancmange of opaque blather. The only thing missing is a colon in the title and some mention of the materiality of an instantiated performance approach to artistic-political juxtaposition.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
I have quoted some of the books. McCargo, Chambers. There are others, both Thai and western. Handley’s is a classic and has been misrepresented. He did not write what people say he did write.
Your problem is you attack and are anti-Thai. To be effective you should put aside your personal bias or vendetta or whatever drives you to that attitude and write balanced and not one-side analyses. Put the Reuters episode behind you. I notice you are attacking Thai nationals that have written books that don’t support your views. You even accused one of plagiarism. The academics and writers I speak to have little time for what comes across as vindictiveness. Get rid of your attitude problem and contribute sensibly.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
They have not all been self-censored. I have put some pretty “explosive” hard-hitting stuff on facebook and twitter. There are Thai and foreign writers that are not mincing their words. Academics from Thamasart and Chula included. It is a myth that all Thais are taken in by the propaganda (many but not all). McCargo and Paul Chambers have been equally open in their comments. Handley made some good points but has been misinterpreted.
Marshall’s problem is that he gets abusive and does not stick to the facts. He comes across as anti-Thai and biased against the country – the resson Reuters let him go. Personally, I think it is a pity as he probably has much to offer if he were a little more restrained and kept to reliable sources. Once you show personal views, for whatever reason, you lose credibility. McCargo, Chambers, and Handley have not done that.
Reflections on the king’s speech
Since when do we take everything Prayuth says at face value? As you correctly observe, the Thai military is split. The top brass are all loyal to Prawit Wongsuwan, and Reuters were right to name him as a key figure – I’d already reported this in р╕Бр╕ер╕╡р╕вр╕╕р╕Д. But as I also made clear in that article, the military is less concerned with succession than the old feudal elite, and more pragmatic. So Prayuth is sitting on the fence, refusing to commit, until he decides which side will win. At that stage he will back them. The army recognizes that military might alone can’t settle this conflict and backing the losing side would be catastrophic.
And yes, several senior military officers are among my sources.
Exclusive: Suthep is Thaksin’s proxy
I think it depends on whether PT remains a Shinawatra property or not.
You might think … “Hell yeah ! It’s a wholly owned subsidiary !” And that’s been the case up until now.
But the value of the fanchise as a wholly owned subsidiary is now certainly much less than in the past. Sure they can win the election, but – with the Shinawatra in absolute control … everyone’s seen this movie before.
On the other hand, the reds had picked another guy for PM last time … I can’t even remember his name. He was a beancounter, I think. The Great Man put his “clone” in positon instead. She’s turned out to be the only class act in Thailand, if you ask me.
One thing that Thai politics needs is attention to detail and … much less drama.
And there must be a reason why Prayuth is backing elections. He’s the guy who said last time, I paraphrase … “A vote for Phuea Thai is a vote for a replay of the same bad movie.”
Prayuth didn’t kill anyone this time, so far, and he must be getting a taste of what it’s like not to be hated. He might grow to like it.
Political figures are not like “friends”. It’s not what they “are” it’s what they do. If Prayuth can follow through … I like him.
It the Shinawatra clan can let go … I like them.
Reflections on the king’s speech
Prayuth did say the election is going to take place, didn’t he ?
Do your sources include the RTA?
Has there been a split in the RTA ?
PPT quotes a Reuters article that makes Anupong and Prawit Giles’ organ grinders behind Suthep. Is Prayuth faking it ? Is there going to be the discovery of the usual grounds for disbanding PT and then AP&P will again put the Democrat Party in charge ?
Or has Prayuth burned his bridges, observed that his needs can be well-met by PT – or other elected government – and decided to bring the RTA into the 21st Century ?
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Interesting article. Obviously my work is firmly in the “Covert Processes and Hidden Agendas” genre, but I would never suggest this is the whole story. I focus on unreported aspects of the conflict precisely because they are unreported. Hopefully shedding light on them contributes to a better overall understanding.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Had a look at his ‘review’ and agree it is hilarious. Why does he think US Embassy cables are not factual? Maybe he has a direct line to the royal family? Haha
Anyway I admire your guts and pity the Thais who have no way to know the truth of their history.
Anyway, enjoy Singapore and hopefully one day things will change for the better such that you can return to Thailand a free man with your wife and kid.
Review of One Man’s View of the World
It’s now pretty clear the reluctance of “Nina Ong” to engage with Dr Cohen’s criticisms was reasonable.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Not sure Matt Owen Rees includes me as one of the writers of “good books” that “hold no punches”, Rambo, and would be fascinated to know which books he is talking about. In an unintentionally funny online review, he described #thaistory as the worst book he has ever read.