So, the anti-government mob can protest freely for their unelected “people’s council” and occupy and damage government facilities, but the red shirts can’t protest inside a stadium to support the elected government?
I have no love for the red shirts, especially after the 2010 burnings, but how about you try not to be so one-sided?
Oh and most importantly, thanks and congratulations Nick for this great account, I hope you keep at it (carefully of course), and don’t let yourself be intimidated.
Thank you for this. I take it you mean by “normalising violent behaviour” that it has become a tradition on some campuses. Am I right?
The irony is that the vocational schools are supposed to be based on the German model. You don’t see plumbers running amok in Germany: there vocational qualifications are given equal status with the rest.
Exactly.
The pictures show the red shirts with something in their hands to hurt people. This is typical of the red shirt gatherings.
“A picture is worth a thousand words” does not apply here?
Will DSI (Dept of Special Investigation) Chief Tarit Pengdith be in charge of this ‘hot potato’ case? (Ha ha ha ha ha)
Thailand’s bungling Elliot Ness aside, the capture of that shooter and a thorough police investigation could lead us to who and why these shooters are trying to kill Ramkhamhaeng U students and Red shirts.
I enjoy whoddunits, so let us (me and my NM fans) do this together,in the spirit of Thai reconciliation, shall we?
(1) The young Red who identified the captured shooter (see Nostitz photo above) as the one who shot, notice that he is wearing a black, not a Red shirt, and he is young. Maybe the shooter mistook him for a RU student? (That’s what probably he told the Red leaders during his interrogation and was thus not mauled so badly).
(2) Where is the gun? When they captured the shooter, the Red vigilantes must also have disarmed the shooter? If the gun had disappeared, then the Reds must have been allowed (by the police) to use that same gun, reloaded it, and started shooting at any moving RU students. If the gun had been turned over to the police, Thailand’s bungling Ness (the distinguished DSI Chief Tarit) should by now be telling us whether or not the same gun had been used in shooting of the dead victims at the RU/Rajmangala stadium riots.
(3) Finally that captured shooter (in Nostitz’s photo) appear to be the type of criminal who will readily cooperate (easy to break felons) and sing his heart out who his other shooting comrades are, and, his master.
Now DSI Chief Tarit, move your bungling butt and solve this case for Nick Nostitz!
When they labelled as foreign workers,it doesn’t include caucasians. But low paid foreign workers. That surprises me most. Discrimination,stereotyping,favoritism,judgement..so on and so forth…… This country needs highly equipped foreign talents as well as basic workers which is truly fundamental here. I could not imagine what will happen if ALL the foreign workers take MC just for one day. Just imagine. Government knows it,but not the large amount of citizens.
I totally support the Assembly for the Defence of Democracy making sensible statements in support of unhypocritical democracy, though it it’s a dim light in total eclipse of hope. The voice that could have saved 99 lives in 2000 remains silent as usual.
Racial tensions? I doubt it. But there is arguably a sense of xenophobia or disgruntlement against foreigners. Then again, most countries do exhibit a certain degree of the latter.
I definitely don’t thing that Farang Ajarns should sign on to proclamations in the internal political arena. This would be counterproductive to any cause and would hinder those they’re attempting to support. However they could help by supporting behind the scenes and assisting with mentoring and practical suggestions.They could also help by organising public opinion outside Thailand and among lawmakers and public figures in the international arena. It seems to me that Suthep’s actions now amount to a desperate act who knows that if he fails now his future in Thailand is numbered. He seems to be mentally disturbed.His new and recurring “deadlines” are tell tale signs of a drowning man , all that needs to be done is being patient and let him dig his own grave. If by some chance elements of the military favour him they must be sidelined immediately. We don’t want to have a situation which occurred decades ago when two opposing armies were facing off and the King had to step in. This time the King is not capable to do that. I think the PM did enough now to show that she listens but still needs to do what’s required of her according to the Constitution and the electoral system. Every day from now Suthep will appear an unreasonable rebel. Give him the rope and he’ll hang himself.
It’s time for Mark to understand that those workers hugely contributed to make the so called cake. It was Australia and Canada who first granted refugee status to those boat people, not out of love for them but to reinforce the domestic labour force. Now the government find the load is enough. And those poor workers never think that they have the rights to eat others’ cake. It’s a war against hunger. If their governments treating them like humans and creating more opportunities, they won’t need a piece of your cake.
In the years to come. anything is possible. Thinking of the Tortoise and the Hare story. If Thailand is not careful, all our neighbours can catch up and can surpass us.
Another important opinion piece in the morning news (The Nation, December 11, 2013)is by journalist Pravit Rojanaphruk,”A letter to the well-heeled protesters of Bangkok.”
In it he first attacks Suthep for claiming to represent “all the Thai people.” He then goes on to chastise the Bangkok elites for expecting the Thai electorate to do their bidding whenever they snap their fingers, just because they are used to “having [their] maids, drivers, waitresses and even sex workers jump to satisfy [them].”
He ends by saying they cannot expect to maintain minority rule, and pleads with them to respect the rule of law, without mob rule or a military coup: “You should try harder to convince them through civil dialogue, rather than engaging in bouts of expletive-loaded hate speech and showing open indifference to loss of life of among protesters who don’t share your political opinions.”
His final cautionary note is: “We have to learn to co-exist with others. And this cannot be done peacefully if you think that your views are the only ones that count. To begin with, kindly tell your leaders to stop claiming to be speaking for all Thais. Let’s call a halt to this ridiculous posturing.”
Pravit has always been the best reporter working for The Nation for years. However, I have noted a trend in the last few days of articles criticizing the demands of the PDRC. For the first time in a long time, I am liking what I am reading in The Nation.
What you posted is not the interview I watched, so we are talking about two separate interviews. I think the interview I watched was not done by Jonathan Head, but was more spur of the moment by a BBC anchorperson, and it was at that time that Abhisit slipped up and made his comment commiting himself to a “people’s council”.
I believe he has indeed “pinned his colours to the mast” of advocating an unelected government on a couple of occasions. In a later interview on CNN he did say that the PM must resign and that she “must meet the demands” of the protesters. I do recall him using that exact phrase. Meeting the demands of the protesters has to mean taking unconstitutional steps to create an unelected council, because protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban has said he will settle for nothing less.
Although as a politician he may want to have things both ways, he has crossed the line in supporting what can only be described as a fascist form of imposed government. We shall see if the Democrats boycott the next election. When recently asked while in the protest march if he would support a boycott, he shouted back over his shoulder, “you’ll have to ask the Party.”
Yes, and the list if you were to be quite painstakingly thorough about it is actually much longer than this!
One definition of insanity put forth by therapists is to repeat the same action over and over again and expect a different outcome. By this definition, the anti-government protestors have gone insane.
Whoops! I missed a couple of names on the list: #6. Sriprapha Phetcharasmesree, and #8. Kritaya Archavanichkul, of Mahidol University. Glad to see them there!
Thank you for posting this on New Mandala. It appears to be a significant pushback by Thai scholars against the Council of University Presidents, who appear to have joined with the fascist PDRC.
I particulary like their point 3: the idea of “a people’s council comprised of people from different professions is an idea inherited from fascist corporatism, as it appeared in Italy during the period of the fascist dictatorship of Benito Mussolini.”
As a foreigner ajarn at Mahidol University, I am wondering if it would be appropriate, or counterproductive, to try to publicly sign on to the list. I would appreciate other people’s opinions. I suspect trying to endorse their statement would get the typical “you’re not Thai! Get out of Thailand!” xenophobic response that is so typical from the Bangkok anti-government protesters.
Tom Hoy, you are in a similar work situation at Thammasat University. What do you think? I don’t see any professors from Mahidol University on the list. Thank God for the Rangsit campus of Thammasat!
Sadly, I don’t agree on what the articles writes. Yes, the low wages as compared to the average Singaporean it is low. But wages back in their home town is even lower compared to the amount of effort, time and returns they get back. They come here because Singapore provide opportunities for them to earn an income (though is lower than vast majority of Singaporean) that after conversation rate, to bring home good money for them to buy lands and animals so that they can lives a better lives after retirement. The culture and standard of living is totally different for comparison.
If as per the articles, does it suggest that the foreign workforce should be increased of the same salary as we are? If so it will means that even your basic HDB flats are going to be increased as many folds as you raised the salary to the same standard. When such time comes, are we Singaporean going to start to complain that the housing is so expensive? Basic equation, increase of labor cost is going to increase your overall cost. It is as simple. It is sort of voicing down to business. An offer of an opportunity for 2 willing parties. One is willing to offer at a rate and one is willing to accept it. No one force each other as it would have been called Slavery.
In addition, Ministry of Manpower has specify and conduct adequate checks to make sure their living quarters are of certain standards while their employers are to comply to rules and living quarters to be M.O.M approved Quarters. Yes some quarters are cramped but hygiene and well being is definitely being look after with a strict guide line.
All in all, using of violence to cause hurt (especially to local Singaporean’s son) and property damages is totally absurd. There is TOTALLY no excuse for the riot. If there is unhappiness, you either raise it peacefully or LEAVE as no one is forcing you to stay. You don’t see Malaysian workers riot in Singapore do you? because they knew that after conversation rate, the take home can help them or their families lives a better back in their country. If you want to work in a country, then you jolly well adopt the culture and rules of that country and apply your barbaric way to change the culture here back to your country’s culture.
I don’t despise Indian/Bangladesh workers as I agree that there are peaceful ones and good ones (like the one who prevent others from damaging the bus from his own people, you have my respect). But those who can’t suit in, they better find another paradise elsewhere and not stir shit here. Because of this action, how much confidences of our “Good Security Country” status has been affected? How much of our effort (tracing from our ancestors) building all this up is going down to drain just because of insolence few salvages who trampled the peace?
Shali, if you are referring to the Mas Selamat case, I think there aint any backlash at all. That’s because there is a difference between a backlash and tension. I think inevitably there may be a temporal phase of slight tensions, but none as dire to be considered as a backlash. After all, there have been a good many number of objective comments from the different races in Singapore. This prevents the impression that people are taking sides based on race.
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Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
So, the anti-government mob can protest freely for their unelected “people’s council” and occupy and damage government facilities, but the red shirts can’t protest inside a stadium to support the elected government?
I have no love for the red shirts, especially after the 2010 burnings, but how about you try not to be so one-sided?
Oh and most importantly, thanks and congratulations Nick for this great account, I hope you keep at it (carefully of course), and don’t let yourself be intimidated.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Thank you for this. I take it you mean by “normalising violent behaviour” that it has become a tradition on some campuses. Am I right?
The irony is that the vocational schools are supposed to be based on the German model. You don’t see plumbers running amok in Germany: there vocational qualifications are given equal status with the rest.
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
Thanks for the information. Finally some of the leading scholars do what they should do: Raise the voice of reason!
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Exactly.
The pictures show the red shirts with something in their hands to hurt people. This is typical of the red shirt gatherings.
“A picture is worth a thousand words” does not apply here?
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Will DSI (Dept of Special Investigation) Chief Tarit Pengdith be in charge of this ‘hot potato’ case? (Ha ha ha ha ha)
Thailand’s bungling Elliot Ness aside, the capture of that shooter and a thorough police investigation could lead us to who and why these shooters are trying to kill Ramkhamhaeng U students and Red shirts.
I enjoy whoddunits, so let us (me and my NM fans) do this together,in the spirit of Thai reconciliation, shall we?
(1) The young Red who identified the captured shooter (see Nostitz photo above) as the one who shot, notice that he is wearing a black, not a Red shirt, and he is young. Maybe the shooter mistook him for a RU student? (That’s what probably he told the Red leaders during his interrogation and was thus not mauled so badly).
(2) Where is the gun? When they captured the shooter, the Red vigilantes must also have disarmed the shooter? If the gun had disappeared, then the Reds must have been allowed (by the police) to use that same gun, reloaded it, and started shooting at any moving RU students. If the gun had been turned over to the police, Thailand’s bungling Ness (the distinguished DSI Chief Tarit) should by now be telling us whether or not the same gun had been used in shooting of the dead victims at the RU/Rajmangala stadium riots.
(3) Finally that captured shooter (in Nostitz’s photo) appear to be the type of criminal who will readily cooperate (easy to break felons) and sing his heart out who his other shooting comrades are, and, his master.
Now DSI Chief Tarit, move your bungling butt and solve this case for Nick Nostitz!
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
yes, probably agree with Tom, Arthurson. They’re just too rabid at the moment and they would play the nationalist and race cards to great
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
When they labelled as foreign workers,it doesn’t include caucasians. But low paid foreign workers. That surprises me most. Discrimination,stereotyping,favoritism,judgement..so on and so forth…… This country needs highly equipped foreign talents as well as basic workers which is truly fundamental here. I could not imagine what will happen if ALL the foreign workers take MC just for one day. Just imagine. Government knows it,but not the large amount of citizens.
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
I totally support the Assembly for the Defence of Democracy making sensible statements in support of unhypocritical democracy, though it it’s a dim light in total eclipse of hope. The voice that could have saved 99 lives in 2000 remains silent as usual.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
So is it like with the Rohingyas in Myanmar or is it more like with the Turks in Germany?
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Racial tensions? I doubt it. But there is arguably a sense of xenophobia or disgruntlement against foreigners. Then again, most countries do exhibit a certain degree of the latter.
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
I definitely don’t thing that Farang Ajarns should sign on to proclamations in the internal political arena. This would be counterproductive to any cause and would hinder those they’re attempting to support. However they could help by supporting behind the scenes and assisting with mentoring and practical suggestions.They could also help by organising public opinion outside Thailand and among lawmakers and public figures in the international arena. It seems to me that Suthep’s actions now amount to a desperate act who knows that if he fails now his future in Thailand is numbered. He seems to be mentally disturbed.His new and recurring “deadlines” are tell tale signs of a drowning man , all that needs to be done is being patient and let him dig his own grave. If by some chance elements of the military favour him they must be sidelined immediately. We don’t want to have a situation which occurred decades ago when two opposing armies were facing off and the King had to step in. This time the King is not capable to do that. I think the PM did enough now to show that she listens but still needs to do what’s required of her according to the Constitution and the electoral system. Every day from now Suthep will appear an unreasonable rebel. Give him the rope and he’ll hang himself.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
It’s time for Mark to understand that those workers hugely contributed to make the so called cake. It was Australia and Canada who first granted refugee status to those boat people, not out of love for them but to reinforce the domestic labour force. Now the government find the load is enough. And those poor workers never think that they have the rights to eat others’ cake. It’s a war against hunger. If their governments treating them like humans and creating more opportunities, they won’t need a piece of your cake.
Thailand’s elite coup culture
Peter, Jon said in the years to come, not now.
In the years to come. anything is possible. Thinking of the Tortoise and the Hare story. If Thailand is not careful, all our neighbours can catch up and can surpass us.
Thailand’s stark choice
Another important opinion piece in the morning news (The Nation, December 11, 2013)is by journalist Pravit Rojanaphruk,”A letter to the well-heeled protesters of Bangkok.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/A-letter-to-the-well-heeled-protesters-of-Bangkok-30221768.html
In it he first attacks Suthep for claiming to represent “all the Thai people.” He then goes on to chastise the Bangkok elites for expecting the Thai electorate to do their bidding whenever they snap their fingers, just because they are used to “having [their] maids, drivers, waitresses and even sex workers jump to satisfy [them].”
He ends by saying they cannot expect to maintain minority rule, and pleads with them to respect the rule of law, without mob rule or a military coup: “You should try harder to convince them through civil dialogue, rather than engaging in bouts of expletive-loaded hate speech and showing open indifference to loss of life of among protesters who don’t share your political opinions.”
His final cautionary note is: “We have to learn to co-exist with others. And this cannot be done peacefully if you think that your views are the only ones that count. To begin with, kindly tell your leaders to stop claiming to be speaking for all Thais. Let’s call a halt to this ridiculous posturing.”
Pravit has always been the best reporter working for The Nation for years. However, I have noted a trend in the last few days of articles criticizing the demands of the PDRC. For the first time in a long time, I am liking what I am reading in The Nation.
Thailand’s stark choice
What you posted is not the interview I watched, so we are talking about two separate interviews. I think the interview I watched was not done by Jonathan Head, but was more spur of the moment by a BBC anchorperson, and it was at that time that Abhisit slipped up and made his comment commiting himself to a “people’s council”.
I believe he has indeed “pinned his colours to the mast” of advocating an unelected government on a couple of occasions. In a later interview on CNN he did say that the PM must resign and that she “must meet the demands” of the protesters. I do recall him using that exact phrase. Meeting the demands of the protesters has to mean taking unconstitutional steps to create an unelected council, because protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban has said he will settle for nothing less.
Although as a politician he may want to have things both ways, he has crossed the line in supporting what can only be described as a fascist form of imposed government. We shall see if the Democrats boycott the next election. When recently asked while in the protest march if he would support a boycott, he shouted back over his shoulder, “you’ll have to ask the Party.”
Thailand’s stark choice
Yes, and the list if you were to be quite painstakingly thorough about it is actually much longer than this!
One definition of insanity put forth by therapists is to repeat the same action over and over again and expect a different outcome. By this definition, the anti-government protestors have gone insane.
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
Whoops! I missed a couple of names on the list: #6. Sriprapha Phetcharasmesree, and #8. Kritaya Archavanichkul, of Mahidol University. Glad to see them there!
Assembly for the Defence of Democracy
Thank you for posting this on New Mandala. It appears to be a significant pushback by Thai scholars against the Council of University Presidents, who appear to have joined with the fascist PDRC.
I particulary like their point 3: the idea of “a people’s council comprised of people from different professions is an idea inherited from fascist corporatism, as it appeared in Italy during the period of the fascist dictatorship of Benito Mussolini.”
As a foreigner ajarn at Mahidol University, I am wondering if it would be appropriate, or counterproductive, to try to publicly sign on to the list. I would appreciate other people’s opinions. I suspect trying to endorse their statement would get the typical “you’re not Thai! Get out of Thailand!” xenophobic response that is so typical from the Bangkok anti-government protesters.
Tom Hoy, you are in a similar work situation at Thammasat University. What do you think? I don’t see any professors from Mahidol University on the list. Thank God for the Rangsit campus of Thammasat!
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Sadly, I don’t agree on what the articles writes. Yes, the low wages as compared to the average Singaporean it is low. But wages back in their home town is even lower compared to the amount of effort, time and returns they get back. They come here because Singapore provide opportunities for them to earn an income (though is lower than vast majority of Singaporean) that after conversation rate, to bring home good money for them to buy lands and animals so that they can lives a better lives after retirement. The culture and standard of living is totally different for comparison.
If as per the articles, does it suggest that the foreign workforce should be increased of the same salary as we are? If so it will means that even your basic HDB flats are going to be increased as many folds as you raised the salary to the same standard. When such time comes, are we Singaporean going to start to complain that the housing is so expensive? Basic equation, increase of labor cost is going to increase your overall cost. It is as simple. It is sort of voicing down to business. An offer of an opportunity for 2 willing parties. One is willing to offer at a rate and one is willing to accept it. No one force each other as it would have been called Slavery.
In addition, Ministry of Manpower has specify and conduct adequate checks to make sure their living quarters are of certain standards while their employers are to comply to rules and living quarters to be M.O.M approved Quarters. Yes some quarters are cramped but hygiene and well being is definitely being look after with a strict guide line.
All in all, using of violence to cause hurt (especially to local Singaporean’s son) and property damages is totally absurd. There is TOTALLY no excuse for the riot. If there is unhappiness, you either raise it peacefully or LEAVE as no one is forcing you to stay. You don’t see Malaysian workers riot in Singapore do you? because they knew that after conversation rate, the take home can help them or their families lives a better back in their country. If you want to work in a country, then you jolly well adopt the culture and rules of that country and apply your barbaric way to change the culture here back to your country’s culture.
I don’t despise Indian/Bangladesh workers as I agree that there are peaceful ones and good ones (like the one who prevent others from damaging the bus from his own people, you have my respect). But those who can’t suit in, they better find another paradise elsewhere and not stir shit here. Because of this action, how much confidences of our “Good Security Country” status has been affected? How much of our effort (tracing from our ancestors) building all this up is going down to drain just because of insolence few salvages who trampled the peace?
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Shali, if you are referring to the Mas Selamat case, I think there aint any backlash at all. That’s because there is a difference between a backlash and tension. I think inevitably there may be a temporal phase of slight tensions, but none as dire to be considered as a backlash. After all, there have been a good many number of objective comments from the different races in Singapore. This prevents the impression that people are taking sides based on race.